Transatlantic Official Thread

[KevShmev]

Neal writes 3,407 songs a year, so a melody from one song is bound to slip it another inadvertently at some point.

HOF, I get what you mean. It does seem at this point that the band feels like they have established sound and style and go out of their way to make sure they don't stray too far from it, while the first few albums had that more "free" feeling like they were just writing whatever hit them and boom out it came.  Kaleidoscope and the new album(s) definitely feel a bit more calculated, for lack of a better term.  And that is not necessarily a bad thing, having focus and a set goal, but there isn't as a single moment on the new albums where I thought, "Woah, I didn't see that coming!"  It all felt very safe and predictable. Still quite good so far, but definitely has that "been there, done that" feel.

[DTA]

Does Neal realize he plagiarized his own song ...

Um...that isn't really how plagiarism works.

I can't imagine how pedantic you must be to have made this post

[Ben_Jamin]

So does anyone else hear minions on Belong?

🤣🤣🤣

I thought those were Boobahs.

But yeah, it caught me by surprise and was neat to hear in that spot.

[devieira73]

So does anyone else hear minions on Belong?

🤣🤣🤣

I thought those were Boobahs.

But yeah, it caught me by surprise and was neat to hear in that spot.

I found a bit creepy that "dark side minions" part, but also very cool!
About Pete singing... I must admit I'm not much fan of his vocals, I think even Mike is a better vocalist, but in Solitude's case, that first half is so beautiful that it would be really nice if the band invited Ted Leonard or Daniel Gildenlow to sing it.

[darkshade]

Anyone else get a bit of a The Tangent vibe from Solitude?

[Ben_Jamin]

So does anyone else hear minions on Belong?

🤣🤣🤣

I thought those were Boobahs.

But yeah, it caught me by surprise and was neat to hear in that spot.

I found a bit creepy that "dark side minions" part, but also very cool!
About Pete singing... I must admit I'm not much fan of his vocals, I think even Mike is a better vocalist, but in Solitude's case, that first half is so beautiful that it would be really nice if the band invited Ted Leonard or Daniel Gildenlow to sing it.

Ted Leonard would fit that part perfectly for me. I could hear his voice on that part now.

[KevShmev]

Does Neal realize he plagiarized his own song Everything Is Wrong for the Overture's beginning theme?

Woah, I hadn't caught that, which is stunning considering Everything Is Wrong is one of my favorite short Neal tunes ever, but it's pretty obvious now.  Intentional or not, I like it!  It's like he took this simple melody from a laid back tune and transformed it into this epic theme.  Very well done.

There's also a guitar part near the end of The Greatest Story Never Ends that is nearly identical to a guitar part near the end of 12 on the Question Mark (the part right before the final crescendo and dive bomb that leads us into Entrance).  It's at 2:15 in the Breath of Live version.

[KevShmev]

Also, I just made my own ultimate edition that I will try out for a while:

01 Overture (Breath of Life)
02 Reaching for the Sky (Breath of Life)
03 Higher Than the Morning (Forevermore)
04 The Darkness in the Light (Forevermore)
05 Swing High, Swing Low (Forevermore)
06 Bully (Forevermore)
07 Rainbow Sky (Forevermore)
08 Looking for the Light (Forevermore)
09 The World We Used to Know (Forevermore)
10 The Sun Comes Up Today (Forevermore)
11 Love Made a Way - prelude (Forevermore)
12 Owl Howl (Forevermore)
13 Solitude (Forevermore)
14 Belong (Breath of Life)
15 Can You Feel It (Breath of Life)
16 Looking for the Light - reprise (Breath of Life)
17 The Greatest Story Never Ends (Breath of Life)
18 Love Made a Way (Breath of Life)

18 songs / 88 minutes. That looks about right.  I didn't like losing Lonesome Rebel, but it was either that or Can You Feel It for the sake of continuity and maintaining the flow of the record, and Can You Feel It is too good to not have.  That is the only reason I kept Solitude, which is a tough lesson due to Pete's vocals, and I can still see myself skipping over it a lot, but at least it's there for the purposes of flow when I want to let it run uninterrupted.

Also, while it is too early to rank it against the band's other albums, I suspect that this will eventually land comfortably ahead of Kaleidoscope, but well behind the first three.  Almost everything on my 18-track version above ranges from good to very good, but if you want to call the whole thing one song, it doesn't touch The Whirlwind (as a whole), All of the Above or Stranger in Your Soul, and if you want to call it an album of mostly short songs, I don't see anything on here touching We All Need Some Light, Rose Covered Glasses, A Man Can Feel or Is It Really Happening? 

[HOF]

Listening to Breath of Life after receiving the CD in the mail today. I hadn't really noticed when I was streaming it, but some of the transitions between tracks are really jarring.

[Elite]

Does Neal realize he plagiarized his own song ...

Um...that isn't really how plagiarism works.

[The Letter M]

Listening to Breath of Life after receiving the CD in the mail today. I hadn't really noticed when I was streaming it, but some of the transitions between tracks are really jarring.

I am glad I'm not the only who feels that way! Maybe I've gotten too used to the flow of Forevermore, but even without that, there are some oddly abrupt transitions between songs on TBOL.

-Marc.

[Mladen]

Does Neal realize he plagiarized his own song Everything Is Wrong for the Overture's beginning theme?

Whoa! I didn't catch that! The melody is pretty much identical. 

I'll give him a pass on it, though. Considering the amount of music he produces, it is unlikely that he will never repeat a melody. Not to mention he probably hardly even remembers the exact melodies to a song he did 22 years ago, given how obscure and underplayed it is.

[DTA]

Does Neal realize he plagiarized his own song Everything Is Wrong for the Overture's beginning theme?

Woah, I hadn't caught that, which is stunning considering Everything Is Wrong is one of my favorite short Neal tunes ever, but it's pretty obvious now.  Intentional or not, I like it!  It's like he took this simple melody from a laid back tune and transformed it into this epic theme.  Very well done.

There's also a guitar part near the end of The Greatest Story Never Ends that is nearly identical to a guitar part near the end of 12 on the Question Mark (the part right before the final crescendo and dive bomb that leads us into Entrance).  It's at 2:15 in the Breath of Live version.

It may be intentional as his first two solo albums seem to go under everyone's radar including his hardcore fans. Outside Looking In from ? borrows directly from Something Blue on Its Not Too Late. Both are really strong melodies so maybe he wanted to reuse them on something that would be heard by more people. I haven't dug into TAU enough to recognize other similarities (and only have Forevermore as of now) so I'll have to wait to check yours out.

[Mladen]

There is a scene in Making of Momentum where Neal mentions he had a riff he wanted to use for Thoughts part V, but Randy told him it sounded way too much like Gibberish by Spock's Beard. Apparently, Neal had forgotten. I know it sounds unbelievable to us, but imagine creating dozens and dozens of riffs and melodies every year for two and a half decades.

[The Curious Orange]

Did anyone else mishear the line "And the turn-key farmers run" in Can You Feel It as turkey farmers? And if so, did anyone else start singing Village of the Sun by Frank Zappa?
Portnoy is a big Zappa fan - was this deliberate?

[faizoff]

Don't know why but the last track on disc 1 of Forevermore 'The World We Used To Know' sounds like a better closer to the album than 'Love Made A Way'

So does anyone else hear minions on Belong?

🤣🤣🤣

I thought those were Boobahs.

But yeah, it caught me by surprise and was neat to hear in that spot.

Yeah that was my first thought as well, Minions. I wished they'd put some credits on the booklet about the singer, I don't see anything listed for that track or any guest vocals.

[Zydar]

The first time I heard those "minions" I immediately thought that it was a typical Roine thing, having just gotten into TFK in the recent months.

[Fritzinger]

Is It Really Happening?

A song like this (or Pieces Of Heaven) is exactly what I am missing on The Absolute Universe. It's great, but it has a LOT of melodic parts and I actually would have loved more parts where the band members show what they're capable of. More instrumental, proggy stuff. That's why The Whirlwind remains my undisputed #1 in Transatlantic's catalogue.

[Peter Mc]

There is a scene in Making of Momentum where Neal mentions he had a riff he wanted to use for Thoughts part V, but Randy told him it sounded way too much like Gibberish by Spock's Beard. Apparently, Neal had forgotten. I know it sounds unbelievable to us, but imagine creating dozens and dozens of riffs and melodies every year for two and a half decades.

At this point a lot of Neal stuff sounds familiar but, as long as I enjoy it, I don't really go back and try to find where he's used it or something similar before.  Not saying anyone else is doing that, could just be something they happen to know very well is being repeated.  I would guess, with the sheer volume of albums he's done in the same style, there will be some things he has repeated probably without even knowing he's doing it.

[devieira73]

... And I'll say again that Pete is the album MVP for me, on both vocals and bass.  Take him away, and the album falls considerably for me.

Pete's playing on Transatlantic is really excellent all the way through their discography and indeed is very very important to their identity. Just an observation, interesting to notice that Kaleidoscope, overall the less liked album, has his bass less prominent in the mix.

[Max Kuehnau]

I agree, Peter is fantastic on all the albums. Love his growly tone he gets too.

[Orbert]

Did anyone else mishear the line "And the turn-key farmers run" in Can You Feel It as turkey farmers? And if so, did anyone else start singing Village of the Sun by Frank Zappa?
Portnoy is a big Zappa fan - was this deliberate?

Village of the Sun, son.  (Sun Village to you!)

[Peter Mc]

Obviously I disagree about the vocals but yes, as a bass player, he is phenomenal and a huge part of their sound and this comes from someone who usually doesn't really notice the bassist too much.

[Ben_Jamin]

Is It Really Happening?

A song like this (or Pieces Of Heaven) is exactly what I am missing on The Absolute Universe. It's great, but it has a LOT of melodic parts and I actually would have loved more parts where the band members show what they're capable of. More instrumental, proggy stuff. That's why The Whirlwind remains my undisputed #1 in Transatlantic's catalogue.

To me, Is It Really Happening? Is the defining moment of The Whirlwind. Everything culminates together in this song. And to me, it symbolizes the calm moment, like the eye of the storm, as you witness it all and ask "Is it really happening?". The calmness is the moment of pondering while looking at the devastation The Whirlwind is doing.

The Absolute Universe, culminates at The World We Used To Know for me...at this moment. It will definitely change when I hear it more.

[gzarruk]

Listening to Breath of Life after receiving the CD in the mail today. I hadn't really noticed when I was streaming it, but some of the transitions between tracks are really jarring.

I am glad I'm not the only who feels that way! Maybe I've gotten too used to the flow of Forevermore, but even without that, there are some oddly abrupt transitions between songs on TBOL.

-Marc.

I agree this is the case with some songs on TBOL, but the transition from LMAW (Prelude) to Owl Howl in Forevermore is as abrupt as it gets. Neal made it much better on TBOL, imo.

[bluefox4000]

I'm Appreciating Forevermore a lot more with Each spin.  i think it being a double obviously played a factor in it's slower build.

i also think that yes it does have more of a Flower Kings tinge.  Hell i think forevermore makes a better FK's album than the past couple the band actually put out honestly.

[Fritzinger]

A question: Does anyone think that the second half of Forevermore flows better than the first? Because I think so.

I know that the opposite has been said before, but I think The Darkness In The Light breaks the flow a little. Especially because before and after it there are two 6/8 songs.

[The Letter M]

There is a scene in Making of Momentum where Neal mentions he had a riff he wanted to use for Thoughts part V, but Randy told him it sounded way too much like Gibberish by Spock's Beard. Apparently, Neal had forgotten. I know it sounds unbelievable to us, but imagine creating dozens and dozens of riffs and melodies every year for two and a half decades.

At this point a lot of Neal stuff sounds familiar but, as long as I enjoy it, I don’t really go back and try to find where he’s used it or something similar before.  Not saying anyone else is doing that, could just be something they happen to know very well is being repeated.  I would guess, with the sheer volume of albums he’s done in the same style, there will be some things he has repeated probably without even knowing he’s doing it.

Watching the Kaleidoscope documentary last week, there was a moment when Neal was playing "Beyond The Sun", and he started going into a Testimony theme because of how the progression sounded. He laughed and Jerry, sitting next to him, totally agreed and laughed too. It was pretty funny, but yeah, after 25 years, a melodic mind like Neal's will surely tread similar territory.

Listening to Breath of Life after receiving the CD in the mail today. I hadn’t really noticed when I was streaming it, but some of the transitions between tracks are really jarring.

I am glad I'm not the only who feels that way! Maybe I've gotten too used to the flow of Forevermore, but even without that, there are some oddly abrupt transitions between songs on TBOL.

-Marc.

I agree this is the case with some songs on TBOL, but the transition from LMAW (Prelude) to Owl Howl in Forevermore is as abrupt as it gets. Neal made it much better on TBOL, imo.

Thankfully, on the Ultimate Mix, Mike opted to use the version of LMAW (Prelude) from TBOL, complete with melodica solo and the better transition into OH.

And for the curious, I timed out the track times for the Ultimate Mix from the BD. All tracks are from basically from Forevermore, except the ones marked with an asterisk, though some tracks from Forevermore are extended.
1. Overture (9:19)
2. Reaching For The Sky (5:41)*
3. Higher Than The Morning (5:29)
4. The Darkness In The Light (5:43)
5. Take Now My Soul (3:49)*
6. Bully (2:11)
7. Rainbow Sky (3:19)
8. Looking For The Light (4:00)
9. The World We Used To Know (9:11)
10. The Sun Comes Up Today (5:42)
11. Love Made A Way (Prelude) (2:13)*
12. Owl Howl (7:06)
13. Solitude (5:41)
14. Belong (2:51)
15. Lonesome Rebel (2:54)
16. Can You Feel It (3:17)*
17. Looking For The Light (reprise) (5:13)
18. The Greatest Story Never Ends (4:55)
19. Love Made A Way (9:06) (features the long timpani ending from TBOL, but uses Forevermore's lyrics)

Just a bit short of 98 minutes, but I guess saying it's 100 minutes looks more epic than saying 98.

There are some interesting points given some of the track choices Mike made. For example, using "Reach For The Sky" in the beginning but the Forevermore version of LMAW at the end means the lyrics don't mirror each other (like they do in each individual version). Likewise, using "Take Now My Soul" going into "Bully" means you hear "Swing High Swing Low" in "Bully" but not in the previous song. Also, both the first and last tracks are longer than they are on Forevermore,  but I haven't listened to the Ultimate Mix enough to pick out where the additions were.

-Marc.

[Mladen]

Rainbow sky is my jam at the moment. It reminds me of the Mercy for sale section of The Door, or even Love is what I'm waiting for by Flying Colors. I'm a sucker for rhythms and tunes like these.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

.

[KevShmev]

Don't know why but the last track on disc 1 of Forevermore 'The World We Used To Know' sounds like a better closer to the album than 'Love Made A Way'

I think I agree with this.  While I did comment earlier that Love Made a Way is a bit more subdued and not quite as bombastic as the "typical" ending to a Neal Morse(-related) concept album, it still feels like the obvious ending, while The World We Use to Know has that finality feel to it and in a different way.

Is It Really Happening?

A song like this (or Pieces Of Heaven) is exactly what I am missing on The Absolute Universe. It's great, but it has a LOT of melodic parts and I actually would have loved more parts where the band members show what they're capable of. More instrumental, proggy stuff. That's why The Whirlwind remains my undisputed #1 in Transatlantic's catalogue.

Hmmm, it does feel like there is a lot of instrumental, proggy stuff on the new material, albeit nothing as nutty as the end of Is It Really Happening?

To me, Is It Really Happening? Is the defining moment of The Whirlwind. Everything culminates together in this song. And to me, it symbolizes the calm moment, like the eye of the storm, as you witness it all and ask "Is it really happening?". The calmness is the moment of pondering while looking at the devastation The Whirlwind is doing.

That is a great way to describe that song! 

[Peter Mc]

I think I mentioned earlier that the end of The World We Used To Know "When love lays down" could easily have been reprised as part of the finale and I'm not sure why it wasn't.

Well obviously I know why it wasn't, it's because they decided not to do it.  I should say, I'm surprised that it wasn't and it would have added an extra epic flavour to the final song imo.

[HOF]

Speaking of cheap packaging, I just cracked the plastic tray getting out the second disc from Forevermore for the first time. Inside Out label, not Radiant.

[425]

I have to say, one listen in, that I'm actually disappointed in an area I didn't really expect to be. I'm not the type of person who is extremely particular about artists expressing their personal views in lyrics—I don't really mind any of Neal's other stuff even though I'm not religious—but I really find what I understand as the overarching message of this album to be pretty off-putting. As I understand it, the idea basically is that it's bad to want to be independent and that you should want to try to "belong," because all you need is love. That message is really antithetical to my worldview on a very fundamental level. And the album is quite confrontational, even mocking, toward those who disagree (much more than Neal's other albums are toward non-Christians).

I'm not going to give up on it, and I'm going to see if I come to like it in spite of the lyrics. But unless I re-read and find that I've really misinterpreted things, I don't think this is ever going to be an album I adore like I do their first four.

[KevShmev]

Interesting take, 425.  Neal slips in a few religious things, but I figured it was more pro-belong (belong!) rather than being anti-independent per se.

And I just noticed the differences in the intros to Love Made a Way, and I definitely prefer the Breath of Life one.  The particular part Neal start to sings from around 1:45-ish ("all along there was a time...") to around 2:15 isn't in the Forevermore version, and I am big fan now of that little section. I have spoken before about how Neal's voice has aged, and you can really hear it in that little section, and it works really well as you can hear a bit of weariness and cracking in his voice that almost sounds like his voice is aching a little, and in a good way!  And Roine's weeping guitar in the background just makes that little part that much more awesome.