Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)

[Adami]

Leo did a drum video of him playing the new single and it made me realize just how annoying Daniel is getting with how he mixes drums. The video drums sounded SO good compared to the actual album recording.

[Elite]

Yea, I remember that.

I do too and it actually trned me off from the band for quite some time, to the point I was getting annoyed with Daniel's stage antics when I saw him live for the umpteenth time.

---

I just listened to Restless Boy for the first time and thought it was really cool. Definitely one of the more interesting things they've done recently. I won't listen again, because I don't want to spoil the album (pre-ordered btw).

[kirksnosehair]

Scarsick II?

God, I hope not.  Sounded somewhat similar to the last album which I thought was pretty decent.  I don't really have an opinion on Daniel's ego.  All I really care about is the music and as long as it's not more of that Road Salt-style crap, or another Scarsick, which I wouldn't use as a coaster for my urine sample, I'll be happy 

[Kram]

Yea, I remember that.

I do too and it actually trned me off from the band for quite some time, to the point I was getting annoyed with Daniel's stage antics when I saw him live for the umpteenth time.

Not unlike Steven Wilson.  Didn't he also say he doesn't appreciate being lumped in with prog bands and he doesn't even really like prog or something to that affect?  That whole "I'm an artist that's above being confined to any certain musical genre" thing.  Funny thing is, I do love most of SW's and Daniel's music - but could do without the "I'm an artist" shtick

[jammindude]

Scarsick II?

God, I hope not.  Sounded somewhat similar to the last album which I thought was pretty decent.  I don't really have an opinion on Daniel's ego.  All I really care about is the music and as long as it's not more of that Road Salt-style crap, or another Scarsick, which I wouldn't use as a coaster for my urine sample, I'll be happy 

If it was Scarsick 2, wouldn't that technically make it TPE 3?

[Dedalus]

Yea, I remember that.

I do too and it actually trned me off from the band for quite some time, to the point I was getting annoyed with Daniel's stage antics when I saw him live for the umpteenth time.

Not unlike Steven Wilson.  Didn't he also say he doesn't appreciate being lumped in with prog bands and he doesn't even really like prog or something to that affect?  That whole "I'm an artist that's above being confined to any certain musical genre" thing.  Funny thing is, I do love most of SW's and Daniel's music - but could do without the "I'm an artist" shtick

Funny thing: They are artists.

[Elite]

Yea, I remember that.

I do too and it actually trned me off from the band for quite some time, to the point I was getting annoyed with Daniel's stage antics when I saw him live for the umpteenth time.

Not unlike Steven Wilson.  Didn't he also say he doesn't appreciate being lumped in with prog bands and he doesn't even really like prog or something to that affect?  That whole "I'm an artist that's above being confined to any certain musical genre" thing.  Funny thing is, I do love most of SW's and Daniel's music - but could do without the "I'm an artist" shtick

I'm pretty sure Steven Wilson once said something along the lines of not wanting to play festivals that focused on 'Prog', because with his solo band he intended to distance himself from the Porcupine Tree prog label, or something like that.

Funny thing: They are artists.

Why is that funny? The thing people in this thread are on about is not the fact that they are or are not, but the notion both of them want to let that be known to their audience in blatant and sometimes downright silly ways. Gildenlow not owning up to his prog past, for example, or Steven Wilson making fun of his audiences because 'Permanating' was a joyful dance tune and people didn't like that. I don't give a crap. Make you music, perform it, own up to it, but don't give your audience the idea that  you think you're better than them or that they owe you something, because you're the one creating it.

[abydos]

It is especially funny when artists do that because in most cases, if not all, it's that thing they distance themselves from is what put them on the map in the first place.

[Pettor]

From Pain of Salvation official instagram:

@travismcginnis Nah, I find it absolutely refreshing to belong to a music style that constitutes a whopping 0% of my total music rotation. Utterly spiffy. 😂 I am just never getting entirely used to the confusion it evokes in me. See, I honestly think we make awesome music, and although I can come up with a stunning number of adjectives to describe my view on progressive metal, awesome is simply not one of them. Not by a long shot. So you see, there's an obvious discrepancy there, and despite my vast mental capacities, I repeatedly fail to fill that gap. 🧐 Empirically, thus, either we must in fact be different from all other progressive metal bands and placed in the wrong genre, or I am simply wrong when I like our own music. Both prospects are unnerving. 😉

I think that pretty clearly describes his view on the prog metal thing. I have seen them live tons of time and he usually mentions prog metal and how he isn't a fan of it. It's just irritating at this point because it really doesn't matter. Honestly Steven Wilson, Riverside, POS and all other bands that feel confused and betrayed (or whatever they feel) by being part of prog metal should also start realizing that they have fans because of it. I am so tired of these bands giving hints how Dream Theater isn't something they like and they are totally different. Mike invited POS several times to the Prog festivals and cruises which most likely wouldn't happen if they didn't share a fan base (and ofc Mike liking them).

Labels are stupid when used wrong, I get that. In end it's like humans, irritating to be seen as part of a label you didn't agree to instead of seen as an individual or some other label you feel connected to. But that label is also a great tool for many music lovers to find the band. I don't know a better label for POS honestly. I do agree a lot of their music is accessible outside of prog metal and my wife, mother, father, friends etc. all have songs they really like from them. That kinda applies to Dream Theater as well but yeah.

[MoraWintersoul]

Honestly Steven Wilson, Riverside, POS and all other bands that feel confused and betrayed (or whatever they feel) by being part of prog metal should also start realizing that they have fans because of it.

There are differences between their approaches as well. Steven Wilson says he wants to cross over and not be thought of as a prog artist anymore, and he does try to do so. Mariusz Duda says he'd like to get a different label as well, but Riverside isn't quite there on the crossing over thing and he only says so when he's asked and generally doesn't dwell on that a whole lot, he goes back and forth. Daniel pretending he has absolutely zero idea why people call them prog metal is.......... uggggggghhhhh. Could it be that you don't know because you listen to zero prog metal and thus don't know there is plenty of music under the prog metal umbrella that does sound like PoS, Daniel. maybe I'm wrong because the size of my intellect is no match to yours after all but

[abydos]

Labels have always been more for the fans and not the band. I just see them as "your music is most likely to connect the most with this audience" and not "your music is like Dream Theater". is OSI progressive metal? Yet what is the most likely group of people to listen to that band? There is science-fiction about stupid robots and lasers, there's science-fiction that can make you think about the deepest things in life. Does this happen with authors? "My books are not scifi lol dats stupid cos lasers".

[Evermind]

despite my vast mental capacities

Wow

[MoraWintersoul]

Does this happen with authors? "My books are not scifi lol dats stupid cos lasers".

Yes, Margaret Atwood is one famous case of exactly this.

despite my vast mental capacities

Wow

I have to repeat myself

I'm pretty sure that the only way to really enjoy this band is to not take Daniel too seriously I tend to like him both as a person and as a musician, but he is also... hm, how should I put this. Kinda challenging to listen to at times.

[abydos]

To be honest, that mental capacity comment I think is made in jest as his entire comment is written in such a way and from some of his facebook posts I've read, he doesn't usually attempt to write like a literature professor from 1875.

Does this happen with authors? "My books are not scifi lol dats stupid cos lasers".

Yes, Margaret Atwood is one famous case of exactly this.

, never heard of her. I'll have to check her out.

[Elite]

Let's talk further about Daniel's vast mental capabilities

[Pettor]

BTW the "vast mental capabilities" I read as a self-realization of sort basically indicating that he knows this is how he talks or is seen as. That doesn't mean it gets less irritating when he does, but yeah 

[RodrigoAltaf]

 I went back and forth with POS, and while I enjoy every listen of their old material, I never had the drive to explore them more and to become more than a casual listener. I find that their music requires ENGAGEMENT to fully appreciate it, and it doesn't really work as background music. With that said, I received Panther, and quite liked it!!! It's a very experimental album, and they are certainly worthy of praise - they never do the same album twice, and continue to explore new ground.

[Dedalus]

Why is that funny? The thing people in this thread are on about is not the fact that they are or are not, but the notion both of them want to let that be known to their audience in blatant and sometimes downright silly ways. Gildenlow not owning up to his prog past, for example, or Steven Wilson making fun of his audiences because 'Permanating' was a joyful dance tune and people didn't like that. I don't give a crap. Make you music, perform it, own up to it, but don't give your audience the idea that  you think you're better than them or that they owe you something, because you're the one creating it.

Ah yes, I realized that the point here, for days, is that they are not humble enough.

[Dedalus]

I am so tired of these bands giving hints how Dream Theater isn't something they like and they are totally different.

Ah, that is the point. What most annoys DT fans about DG and SW is that they don't like DT, they don't like the style of the band, they don't like what the band represents, especially as a kind of "definition" of prog metal.

[Elite]

Really now?

[Kwyjibo]

I couldn't care less what DG thinks of himself and his music as long as he's creating good music.

And I'm not sure if everything he says is meant that serious. On the making of video of Ayreon's 10101001 Arjen Lucassen tells that Daniel at first didn't want to be part of it because he doesn't like cheesy science fiction stuff. And when Arjen visited Daniel to record his vocals, it turned out that he has one of the largest Star Wars memorabilia collection Arjen has ever seen. 

[Dedalus]

I couldn't care less what DG thinks of himself and his music as long as he's creating good music.

And I'm not sure if everything he says is meant that serious. On the making of video of Ayreon's 10101001 Arjen Lucassen tells that Daniel at first didn't want to be part of it because he doesn't like cheesy science fiction stuff. And when Arjen visited Daniel to record his vocals, it turned out that he has one of the largest Star Wars memorabilia collection Arjen has ever seen. 

We even have an example above. The "vast mental capacities" is clearly a mockery (and he even put an emoji to facilitate interpretation  ).

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Labels have always been more for the fans and not the band. I just see them as "your music is most likely to connect the most with this audience" and not "your music is like Dream Theater". is OSI progressive metal? Yet what is the most likely group of people to listen to that band? There is science-fiction about stupid robots and lasers, there's science-fiction that can make you think about the deepest things in life. Does this happen with authors? "My books are not scifi lol dats stupid cos lasers".

Actually yes, there are several fantasy authors who try to avoid the genre tag because they write real stories and not silly kid stuff.

[Kram]

It is especially funny when artists do that because in most cases, if not all, it's that thing they distance themselves from is what put them on the map in the first place.

Bingo!  Then they have an almost condescending attitude towards us fans because that's the music WE like.  I applaud them for trying new things - but don't give us fans crap for not always being onboard with their "new direction".  We like what we like!

[Pettor]

I am so tired of these bands giving hints how Dream Theater isn't something they like and they are totally different.

Ah, that is the point. What most annoys DT fans about DG and SW is that they don't like DT, they don't like the style of the band, they don't like what the band represents, especially as a kind of "definition" of prog metal.

What. That is 100% wrong  DG and POS is bloody brilliant. I just think DT is such a nice band that happens to do what they love and always say positive things about all other bands. They constantly get shit for being soulless or whatever and it saddens me that it's considered a bad thing to share the same label as DT for some reason.

Anyway I am really looking forward to Panther. POS has some of the most exciting releases imo. You never know where it will be heading but there's always strong emotional melodies and lyrics.

[MoraWintersoul]

they never do the same album twice

Except Road Salt 

[Pettor]

Haha well played. That was even supposed to be a double album?

BTW I did a remix of Road Salt using my favourite songs trying to make it go from light and end really dark:

A. LIGHT SIDE
=============
- What She Means to Me
- No Way
- Road Salt Theme
- 1979
- To the Shoreline
- Healing Now
- Sisters
- Of Dust
- Sleeping Under the Stars
- Innocence


B. DARK SIDE
============
- Darkness of Mine
- Where It Hurts
- Break Darling Break
- Road Salt
- Of Salt
- Through the Distance
- If You Wait
- Gone
- End Credits


I still really enjoy this version 

[Elite]

You left out at least two of the best tracks, but props for including Break Darling Break

[MoraWintersoul]

I like the Road Salts more than most people (rank them over Scarsick, for starters), and even I would trim my ideal Road Salt pretty far down from what they released. But it's all good and over now.

[Pettor]

You left out at least two of the best tracks, but props for including Break Darling Break

Yeah I was really missing The Physics of a Gridlock and To The Shoreline when I looked at it. Did this very long time ago, maybe update time! The best part of this remix is the run from Where It Hurts to Gone. It flows nicely and gets increasingly sad 

I think Road Salt is really cool. Sadly it would have been even stronger with a better flow and some trimming. Mixing is also strange (1979 is so sharp). But the sound itself is fantastic on the CDs!

[Elite]

I was talking about The Deeper Cut and Mortar Grind, to be honest

I like Road Salts better than Scarsick

Hey, me too!

[MoraWintersoul]

Mortar Grind slaps.

[Zantera]

I feel like the Road Salt albums get overlooked a bit unfortunately, especially RS2 which I would argue is great. Only dent on the Road Salts from my own perspective is I don't care for the sound they went for with the mixing and the 'trying to sound like a 70s album' retro aspect but musically I think both of them are pretty good - RS2 especially.

While I know many feel ITPLOD was their return to form after some 'meh' years, I feel like the Road Salts don't even belong in the same discussion as Scarsick which is easily their worst imo.

[Elite]

Scarsick is so far below their other releases, I can't even remember the last time I listened to it. It's the only PoS album I don't own.

That said; some of the tracks are quite cool on their live DVD and Mrs. Modern Mother Mary suddenly wasn't their worst song ever after the treatment it got on Falling Home.

[Evermind]

Road Salts have some very good songs. The Physics of Gridlock sucks though, in my opinion. They closed one of the shows I saw them live with it, and it was the most boring eight minutes of their shows ever.