The Haken thread v. Restoration

[Lucidity]

Loving some of this stuff, although on second-ish listen it doesn't seem quite up there with their first two. And Cockroach King isn't nearly as odd as everyone makes it out to be... feels like classic Haken to me.

[Setebos]

I got my copy yesterday and I quite like it so far. Still Haken, but certainly different from Aquarius and Visions. However I'm not sure if the album is really quite up there with the first two. While the album does not really have a bad track on it, it does not have a really great song either (like Celestial Elixir or Visions). Of course, this is only my first impression and further listens might change that.

[Heretic]

Well I feel like though the album doesn't have that one "huge epic standout song" that the running theme throughout the album sort of makes it a huge cohesive work that stands above the other two albums, at least for me. The sheer quality of the smaller, shorter songs altogether makes the album an amazing experience from beginning to end.

[Lucien]

I'd say Falling Back to Earth is pretty epic.

[Dark Castle]

I'm liking this album much more than anything else I've heard from them.

[me7]

...And Cockroach King isn't nearly as odd as everyone makes it out to be... feels like classic Haken to me.

Same here

[pain of occupation]

didn't know these guys too well before checking this out. 3 spins in, ALL of the longer/proggy songs are 

[GasparXR]

I can't get the album out of my head, and Falling Back to Earth is just absolutely magnificent!!

[Elite]

So, who is going to the shows next week?

[BlackInk]

I can't decide if Pareidolia or Somebody is the best track on the album.

[me7]

For me, Somebody is the only track I don't love at the moment. It seems like a fairly simple song dragged out for too long and it doesn't give the majestic sense of closure that Celestial Elixir and Visions did.

[Mosh]

Well if you compare Somebody to those songs then you're pretty much guaranteed to be disappointed. I think it's awesome and a different way to close the album. It's more like Sun and Deathless, but even better.

[Lucien]

What the heck is Cockroach King ABOUT?

[GasparXR]

What the heck is Cockroach King ABOUT?

Are you sure you didn't just answer your own question?

[Lucidity]

Well if you compare Somebody to those songs then you're pretty much guaranteed to be disappointed. I think it's awesome and a different way to close the album. It's more like Sun and Deathless, but even better.

Somebody is a fantastic song, but for me it completely fails to function as a closer. It would've been much wiser to end the album with Falling Back to Earth in my opinion.

[Lucidity]

I can't decide if PareidoliaFalling Back to Earth or SomebodyAtlas Stone is the best track on the album.

[Mosh]

I disagree, but maybe they meant for the two bonuses to be part of the album, rather than "just" bonus tracks. Anyone who has the album think so?

[Nick]

What the heck is Cockroach King ABOUT?

The King of all Cockroaches.

ALL HAIL THE COCKROACH KING!

[me7]

I disagree, but maybe they meant for the two bonuses to be part of the album, rather than "just" bonus tracks. Anyone who has the album think so?

Not at all. "The Path unbeaten" is an alternative version of "The Path". It's just the same song without vocals, the vocal melodies are played by instruments instead. Sounds like they were unsure whether to open the album instrumentally or with vocals and tried both versions. I prefer the vocal version that ended up as the opener.

"Nobody" is merely a demo of the first section of "Somebody" played only on acoustic guitar with vocals. Not closing material at all.

[m0hawk]

Oh my sweet mother of Jupiter, Falling Back To Earth.... 

"The sky is falling in on MEEEEEEEEEEE-EEEEYIIEEEEEEEE"

As it stands:
1. Visions
2. The Point Of No Return
3. Falling Back To Earth

[Elite]

Oh my sweet mother of Jupiter, Falling Back To Earth.... 

"The sky is falling in on MEEEEEEEEEEE-EEEEYIIEEEEEEEE"

This was awesome indeed. Is that the highest note Ross has recorded on a Haken album? I think so!

[me7]

It's also a good example how much better the vocals are this time around. An Aquarius and Visions, Ross just followed the instruments most of the time. There were a few standout moments like the harmonies in the Celestial Elixir chorus and the insane section in Visions ("Now I see the shadow of a man..."), but The Mountain has multiple sections when the vocals take the lead for a moment.

[ElliottTamer]

Somebody is a fantastic song, but for me it completely fails to function as a closer. It would've been much wiser to end the album with Falling Back to Earth in my opinion.

I disagree with this. I won't say that Somebody is the perfect closer (though I love the song itself), but I feel Falling Back to Earth is exactly where it's supposed to be. I would say it is the bleakest or most despairing song (in a good way) in the album and though the chorus relieves this tension to a large extent, I don't feel it would end the album very well. Surrounded by As Death Embraces and Because It's There, though, it works really well emotionally (for me). I mean, As Death Embraces is probably one of the weakest songs in the album (which doesn't mean I don't find it great), but placing it between Falling Back to Earth and Pareidolia makes it into an amazing breather/pause between two relatively long songs with quite different emotional contents. In a way it's a palette-cleanser.
Out of all the songs in the regular edition of the album I would probably say Somebody is the best closer, though it lacks the epic-ness of tracks like Celestial Elixir or Visions. Still, I prefer to leave The Path Unbeaten as the final track: I think it offers a fitting, somewhat cyclical conclusion to the album. After all, once you climb a mountain you eventually have to go down, and then you often end up in a place remarkably similar to the one where you started.

[Mosh]

I disagree, but maybe they meant for the two bonuses to be part of the album, rather than "just" bonus tracks. Anyone who has the album think so?

Not at all. "The Path unbeaten" is an alternative version of "The Path". It's just the same song without vocals, the vocal melodies are played by instruments instead. Sounds like they were unsure whether to open the album instrumentally or with vocals and tried both versions. I prefer the vocal version that ended up as the opener.

"Nobody" is merely a demo of the first section of "Somebody" played only on acoustic guitar with vocals. Not closing material at all.

Oh, that's a bit disappointing. I think I'll just buy the standard edition then.

[me7]

Out of all the songs in the regular edition of the album I would probably say Somebody is the best closer, though it lacks the epic-ness of tracks like Celestial Elixir or Visions. Still, I prefer to leave The Path Unbeaten as the final track: I think it offers a fitting, somewhat cyclical conclusion to the album. After all, once you climb a mountain you eventually have to go down, and then you often end up in a place remarkably similar to the one where you started.

I interpret "Somebody" as a song about someone who never got his shot at the mountain and lives a life of regret, wondering "What if...". I don't like the idea of following it with a song about climbing down from a mountain.

[Elite]

Well, if you want to interpret it that way, think about the song title. 'The Path Unbeaten' may then very well symbolise the path that one has yet to take. It actually even makes sense. considering it's practically the same song as 'The Path', but without vocals.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I need this album.

[Zydar]

Falling Back To Earth has taken over as my favourite on the album, at the moment.

[Lucidity]

Falling Back To Earth has taken over as my favourite on the album, at the moment.

Same for me.

[Elite]

Still Pareidolia for me, but Falling Back to Earth might take its place. I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing the band Tuesday!

[me7]

Well, if you want to interpret it that way, think about the song title. 'The Path Unbeaten' may then very well symbolise the path that one has yet to take. It actually even makes sense. considering it's practically the same song as 'The Path', but without vocals.

I think the titles "The Path unbeaten" and "Nobody" don't really mean anything, they are just wordplays on the titles of the finished songs. "Unbeaten" probably came to their mind because it is an unfinished version of the song "The Path", before they beat the challenge of finishing the song.

[ariich]

Unbeaten isn't an unfinished version, it's an alternative version with no vocals and orchestral backing, and a slightly different structure. I'm the same as ElliotTamer, I think it's a perfect way to close the album.

And I'm not sure that Nobody is a demo, as far as I know it's just an acoustic version of Somebody, minus the bridge section. It's nice but doesn't really add anything IMO.

And yeah I also completely agree with Elliot that Falling Back to Earth's placement on the album is perfect. In fact, the pacing of the album is completely bang on. I'm glad they didn't have the typical epic closer like the first two albums - as good as those songs were, it would have been getting too samey to do it again.

[Elite]

And yeah I also completely agree with Elliot that Falling Back to Earth's placement on the album is perfect. In fact, the pacing of the album is completely bang on. I'm glad they didn't have the typical epic closer like the first two albums - as good as those songs were, it would have been getting too samey to do it again.

I also agree very much with all this and want to add to that that I'm actually really glad the band didn't make an Aquarius 3.0, as that was my biggest fear for their third album. I really like the fact that they stuck with some shorter songs and a couple of lengthy ones. It's fresh for them, but also for the listener.

[BlackInk]

Well, they'd have to actually make an Aquarius 2.0 first, which I would have absolutely no problem with..

[Elite]

Well, they'd have to actually make an Aquarius 2.0 first, which I would have absolutely no problem with..

A lot of the criticism Visions got was that it sounded a lot like Aquarius and does, in fact, have a completely similar structure as Aquarius does. Both end with an epic that reprises stuff from earlier tracks, both have a ballad right before the epic, both consist solely of 'long' stracks (especially if you consider the run from The Mind's Eye - Portals - Shapeshifter as one), both are concept albums and on both the tracks generally flow seamlessly into each other. Combine that with the fact or perception that it sounds similar (similarly mixed/mastered etc.) and that idea isn't too far-fetched. The Mountain is pretty much different from both in every way.