The Haken thread v. Restoration

[Nick]

Cockroach King is so fun!

I liken it to The Count of Tuscany. If you just accept and enjoy the lyrics it will always make you happy.

[Dimitrius]

The music is also very quirky.

[ariich]

Cockroach King is so fun!

I liken it to The Count of Tuscany. If you just accept and enjoy the lyrics it will always make you happy.

I don't see how the lyrics are in any way similar. I mean, I love TCOT but the lyrics are incredibly literal, which is not at all the case with CK.

[Nick]

Unfortunately I've not been able to actually read the full lyrics of CK yet, but I just get the same non super serious vibe. May be off, as I've often said I never really pay too much attention to lyrics.

[krands85]

Imho,this isn't as good as the previous two. BUT,It's almost as good as Aquarius.

That's how I see it at the moment, but after only 2 listens. And the second listen was a big improvement over the first.

[ariich]

I'm properly obsessed with In Memoriam at the moment.

TEARING DOWN THE WALLS OF ETERNITY

[Onno]

Cockroach King is so fun!

I liken it to The Count of Tuscany. If you just accept and enjoy the lyrics it will always make you happy.

Holy shit, then it must be good. Can't wait for the album!!!

[adace]

Awesome album Not sure it's as good as Visions, but it's pretty close.

[The Trooper]

Going to be hard to beat this as album of the year in my book. OUTSTANDING album!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nekov]

Pretty good album. Not sure how I would rank it yet.

[Orthogonal]

Why is Amazon telling me it is being released on Sept 17?!?!?!? Thought it was out next week. Maybe the US is just later.

[HarlequinForest]

I thought Haken's music was already pretty eccentric, but this album...

[Elite]

First impression (and *first listen*, keep that in mind) opinions:

- The Path: Beautiful opening
- Atlas Stone: heard it before, fantastic song
- Cockroach King: undoubtedly the worst Haken song ever
- In Memoriam: Pretty nice and heavy
- Because It's There: about the most 'beautiful' and 'sincere' thing Haken has done, but not especially good
- Falling Back to Earth: pretty cool, nothing special. A couple of nice heavy riffs and the 'chorus' is good, but I feel the whole song goes on for too long.
- As Death Embraces: forget what I said about Because It's There. Apart from it not being good, that goes for this track. This is pretty fantastic.
- Pareidolia: easily the best track on the album, possible top 5 Haken song. This is what I want from them!
- Somebody: pretty nice closer to the album. Nothing extraordinarily special, but I liked the vocal things the band did here

- The Path Unbeaten: I think I like this better than The Path, but I'm not entirely sure. It's definitely beautiful
- Nobody: Haken does acoustic guitars? I think I like the arrangement better than on 'Somebody', but it misses the vocal stuff. Nice track

Overall: I'm pretty disappointed actually. I *loved* both Visions and Aquarius, but this album here didn't floor me at all on first listen. It has some very good tracks, but also some very mediocre ones. I can't stress enough that these are my feelings based SOLELY on the first listen. In time they might change, I'll see how it feels when they likely play all of it live next Tuesday. Looking forward to that regardless, seeing Haken is always nice.

[Nekov]

So, my 2 cents about The Mountain:

The album is quite good in many aspects. As some of you have said, the maturity in their music is very evident and they seem to be more comfortable in experimenting with new things, specially with all the Jazz elements they incorporated. Ross is at his best here, I have absolutely no complaints about his performance, same for the rest of the band.

On the downside, on some aspects I feel they went a bit far in either the technical aspect or the experimentation. I love prog, it's my favorite musical genre but when it's overdone it doesn't sound right and breaks the smooth flow in a song which happens in some songs here.

After doing the listen I'm a bit amazed that they chose the best two songs (IMO) to release before the album. I would assume a band would release something that's more on the average on an album to promote it so that when people listen to it they find something even better but then again, my opinion.

[Zydar]

- Cockroach King: undoubtedly the worst Haken song ever

[Nick]

- Cockroach King: undoubtedly the worst Haken song ever

My reaction wavers between this and pure rage.

[Zydar]

Interesting interview with Charlie Griffiths:

https://www.ghostcultmag.com/a-towering-experience-an-interview-with-haken/

I didn't know they all work day jobs still.

[me7]

It's sad they can't make a living from their music and tour full-time. I'd love to see them live.

[Nick]

Interesting interview with Charlie Griffiths:

https://www.ghostcultmag.com/a-towering-experience-an-interview-with-haken/

I didn't know they all work day jobs still.

That really shouldn't be news. Basically any band that isn't playing theaters somewhat regularly is not going to make enough money to be supported primarily by the music they write nowadays. Even Symphony X, a band that tours clubs in the US regularly and successfully has to find other income outside of the tours.

[Shadow2222]

After more listens, I can say that this is better than Visions, but still cannot touch the absolute masterpiece that was Aquarius.

[Zydar]

Interesting interview with Charlie Griffiths:

https://www.ghostcultmag.com/a-towering-experience-an-interview-with-haken/

I didn't know they all work day jobs still.

That really shouldn't be news. Basically any band that isn't playing theaters somewhat regularly is not going to make enough money to be supported primarily by the music they write nowadays. Even Symphony X, a band that tours clubs in the US regularly and successfully has to find other income outside of the tours.

Yeah I know. I guess I'm just stuck in the mindset of the 60s and 70s where bands usually could live off their music and ditch the day jobs. It's a totally different game today.

[ariich]

Rich and Diego, definitely give the album more listens. It's a more intense album than their first two, and so needs time to sink in and grow.

I'm sure they released those two songs early because they are the most safe and "Haken-y" songs on the album, arguably anyway. Where they've pushed the boundaries of what they are doing across much of the album. I disagree that those two are the best anyway.

- Cockroach King: undoubtedly the worst Haken song ever

My reaction wavers between this and pure rage.

Yep, CK is awesome.

[snowdog]

- Cockroach King: undoubtedly the worst Haken song ever

To me this song seemed like this is what Gentle Giant would sound like if they were a heavy metal band.  I don't dislike Gentle Giant, but I don't listen to them a lot either.  It will be interesting to see how much I like this song as time goes on.

[Elite]

Right, here I am after my second listen, this time in the car, instead of at home. I enjoyed it a lot more than on the first listen, but I still didn't really 'get', nor really 'like' Cockroach King. Though I understand your rage if you do like the song; see it in perspective. Haken hasn't made ANY bad songs at all, so basically saying a song is the 'worst' means next to nothing. It's not bad, certainly, but it's way too early for me to rage over it and still, after only two listens, by far the weak point of the album, for me.

Hope that clears some up. Oh, and I'm still the huge Haken fan I was 2-3 years ago, so I had my hopes up high for this album. All I can say, so far, is we got the best in advance, as Atlas Stone and Pareidolia really are the best two tracks.

[Jaq]

Cockroach King, oh boy.

Kind of feels like they threw all their quirkiness at one song at once, and there are parts I absolutely love and parts that make me go "please don't do this again." 

I'll give Haken credit for moving away from the comfort zone of being what they were on their first two albums, which was, and bear in mind I like them, kind of prog metal by numbers, albeit exceptionally well done prog metal. Just part of me thinks they're better at being prog metal by numbers than they are at being quirky and out there.

[Nekov]

Rich and Diego, definitely give the album more listens.

Listened to it at least 5 times yesterday, but as you say, some albums take time to grow

And I will agree with Elite here, CK is the weakest song Haken has done.

[BlackInk]

Closest thing to what I think of the album is probably what Elite said after his first listen. This album is a very solid album, but not at all as good as either Visions or Aquarius.

My biggest wish is that they'd just do something expected for once. Just when you think that an awesome melody is coming because of the feel of the music, they almost always throws in those weird chords or just go full "weird" and experimental. I do like that and think it's an awesome side of Haken but maybe they shouldn't do it all the time. For me, Haken is at their best when they're being epic, symphonic and melodically beautiful and I feel like there's less of that on this album.

My thoughts on the tracks so far:
The Path - Pretty good. Much better after you've become familiar with the theme.
Atlas Stone - Also good, a bit twitchy, no real "flow" which drags it down a little.
Cockroach King - Well.. It's better after a few listens, once you've gotten used to all the strange things. This song is esentially an expansion on my least favorite parts of the other Haken songs.
In Memoriam - If listened to from start to finish, this is the best song so far.
Because It's There - Beautiful, this one I love. Someone described this and In Memoriam as Haken's best short songs and I think I agree with that.
Falling Back to Earth - Started of excellent, then took a questionable turn when the verses started. Chorus is good, when the calm section started I had high hopes for it, but then of course they just went weird with it. It's still really cool though.
As Death Embraces - Not really feeling this yet. I expect I need to listen to it more. It is absolutely not bad, just not feeling it yet.
Pareidolia - Haven't decided if this or the next track is the best on the album.
Somebody - Great one. I wish they fleshed out the "still I'm yearning..." part a bit more because that is awesome, and maybe skipped the "I wish I could have been somebody" thing, but other than that it's awesome.

The Path Unbeaten - Nice.
Nobody - Also nice.

A bit to much of a Beardfish/Karmakanic vibe over this album that puts it below their other two, but still very good.

[Heretic]

I really disagree, I think Falling Back to Earth, Somebody, The Path, and Because It's There are the true standouts of the album. Because It's There is just absolutely beautiful, I think.

Also-- I think Cockroach King is really, really fun, and it's nice to hear something somewhat goofy since most of the album is fairly serious.

[Lucidity]

My biggest wish is that they'd just do something expected for once. Just when you think that an awesome melody is coming because of the feel of the music, they almost always throws in those weird chords or just go full "weird" and experimental.

I don't think I've heard anyone say this before, but I completely agree. I feel like Haken often sacrifices very strong melodies for the sake of being proggy and wacky. It can be cool, but it is often very annoying.

[Jaq]

I agree; sometimes it just feels like they're quirky and out there when they should just let something groove for a bit.

I like the album, but it's easily the least of their three to date.

[Lolzeez]

I agree with Elite. Cockroach King is Haken's worst song.

[Nick]

I have to say, I'm truly shocked at people's reaction to Cockroach King.

[Zydar]

I'm impressed that people are so quick to make judgments after so short time. I personally need a lot of time to let the music sink in and really get a grasp of it all.

I would make a terrible reviewer, handing in my review like two months after release date

[Nick]

I'm impressed that people are so quick to make judgments after so short time. I personally need a lot of time to let the music sink in and really get a grasp of it all.

I would make a terrible reviewer, handing in my review like two months after release date

No, you would make a great reviewer, just a late one!

I often start writing my reviews after a listen or two, but then there is a constant revision process for those parts over the next half dozen-ten listens or so.

[ariich]

I have to say, I'm truly shocked at people's reaction to Cockroach King.

Same here. It's quite quirky, but Haken have loads of quirky stuff in their music. I think it's a great song!

Anyone else getting a BTBAM vibe from Falling Back To Earth? Not so much in the verses and choruses, but especially the instrumental and then most of the second half of the song.