Official Helloween thread v. Pumpkins United

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLV530n3kMw

Does anyone else think this song should have been the theme for the Bond movie instead of Adele?

Great tune!

Are you a Helloween fan, HoSo?

not a huge Power Metal guy but i do like me some helloween (and a few other bands like blind guardian, stratovarius, etc). specifically i've heard (and liked) Keeper of the Seven Keys, Helloween (2021), and Gambling With The Devil. don't think i've heard any of their other albums

[TAC]

Nice. Those are three great albums for sure!

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

which should i check next?

[TAC]

which should i check next?

Well, if you liked Keeper Pt. 1, then Keeper Pt. 2 would be the obvious place to go next with Kiske on vocals..

As far as the Deris albums go, Gambling is excellent. They did a Keeper Pt. 3 with Deris as their singer, and I know how cringy that sounds, but the album is incredible.

[ProfessorPeart]

Yeah, the label was like...who?! LOL. Oh well, as long as we get a record.

That tour was a concert highlight for the ages.

Knew I heard that label before. They are releasing Kerry King's album. Looks like it was formed by the longtime GM of Nuclear Blast America. They appear to be building another Metal label. Already a decent starting stable of artists on their website.

[nick_z]

Certainly a bit rougher, and more influenced by speed metal, but I'd recommend their debut Walls of Jericho (+ the EP, as they are always bound together as one now). Kai Hansen on vocals, it's good stuff.

I'd second the Keeper II rec, of course. As for the Deris era, I find The Time of the Oath particularly tasty.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

which should i check next?

Well, if you liked Keeper Pt. 1, then Keeper Pt. 2 would be the obvious place to go next with Kiske on vocals..

As far as the Deris albums go, Gambling is excellent. They did a Keeper Pt. 3 with Deris as their singer, and I know how cringy that sounds, but the album is incredible.

will check and get back here!

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

which should i check next?

Well, if you liked Keeper Pt. 1, then Keeper Pt. 2 would be the obvious place to go next with Kiske on vocals..

As far as the Deris albums go, Gambling is excellent. They did a Keeper Pt. 3 with Deris as their singer, and I know how cringy that sounds, but the album is incredible.

will check and get back here!

checked Keeper 2, good stuff!

[pg1067]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLV530n3kMw

Does anyone else think this song should have been the theme for the Bond movie instead of Adele?

You think that a movie that was released in 2012 should have used a song that didn't exist until nearly a decade later?

[MirrorMask]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLV530n3kMw

Does anyone else think this song should have been the theme for the Bond movie instead of Adele?

You think that a movie that was released in 2012 should have used a song that didn't exist until nearly a decade later?

Without even counting the fact that a sci-fi song about an alien crashing on Earth is as removed from James Bond as it can possibly be.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLV530n3kMw

Does anyone else think this song should have been the theme for the Bond movie instead of Adele?

You think that a movie that was released in 2012 should have used a song that didn't exist until nearly a decade later?

i know that but they can always retroactively edit it

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLV530n3kMw

Does anyone else think this song should have been the theme for the Bond movie instead of Adele?

You think that a movie that was released in 2012 should have used a song that didn't exist until nearly a decade later?

Without even counting the fact that a sci-fi song about an alien crashing on Earth is as removed from James Bond as it can possibly be.

they can retroactively update the script to be more MIB than 007

[TAC]

Saw this article online tonight that Malcolm Dome wrote for Metal Hammer.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/how-helloween-invented-power-metal-with-keeper-of-the-seven-keys-parts-i-and-ii/ar-BB1n4M7W?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=e298c37daab64210b84008d9cf64775f&ei=40

I mean, it doesn't really say anything.

[TAC]

Dani Loble posted some studio footage along with Kai and Dennis Ward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KObqXnhGOJk

Can't hear any new music, but it's good to have validation that something is going on.

[NotePad]

I was just listening to my favourite Helloween album, The Dark Ride, and I was thinking how great it would be if Weiki had bought into that style 100% and they did another album like that with Roland and Grapow still intact.

I love the heavier darker songs, and I love Weiki's songwriting done with that Roy Z heavy production. IMO it was the perfect balance, just a very dark Power Metal Style album. Sure Escalation 666 and and Mirror Mirror for example are dark and heavy, but most of the songs still have their trademark speed and big choruses, and their albums usually have that type of variety anyways. I kinda have a feeling Weiki's feelings towards Roland and Uli was more personal than musical in my opinion because I've read many interviews with him and he seems very open to the other band members writing different styles into their songs. Plus, Weiki himself has written songs like Claws and Kings Will Be Kings, both very heavy and dark.

[MirrorMask]

The Dark Ride is a great album and ironically the two "happy" songs that were meant to balance the darkness of the album, Salvation and All Over the Nations, are among the weaker ones.

Escalation 666 already from the title was trying too hard to be heavy and dark, but overall the album had a good balance and I'm still here 20 years later wondering why it broke up the band; Mr. Torture for example has all the trademarks of Helloween even with a darker tone, The Departed is an absolute banger of a song, and the title track is just a masterpiece, with an emotional and uplifting ending.

A kickass album through and through miles and miles better than the following Rabbits don't come Easy. What a mess of an album, just a desperate attempt to go "see? see? it's still happy happy Helloween as you knew!". Meh.

[Mladen]

I've known The Dark ride for more than fifteen years and although I've always liked it, it keeps getting better with time. We damn the night for example clicked just recently. I also feel like the album gets better as it goes on. The Departed, I live for your pain and Immortal are probably my favorite tunes on it.

[TAC]

The Dark Ride is a great album!

[wolfking]

I was just listening to my favourite Helloween album, The Dark Ride, and I was thinking how great it would be if Weiki had bought into that style 100% and they did another album like that with Roland and Grapow still intact.

I love the heavier darker songs, and I love Weiki's songwriting done with that Roy Z heavy production. IMO it was the perfect balance, just a very dark Power Metal Style album. Sure Escalation 666 and and Mirror Mirror for example are dark and heavy, but most of the songs still have their trademark speed and big choruses, and their albums usually have that type of variety anyways. I kinda have a feeling Weiki's feelings towards Roland and Uli was more personal than musical in my opinion because I've read many interviews with him and he seems very open to the other band members writing different styles into their songs. Plus, Weiki himself has written songs like Claws and Kings Will Be Kings, both very heavy and dark.

Would have been great but unfortunately when Weiki fired Roland and Uli after the tour as he thought they were having too much control and steering the band in a direction that was too heavy, was never going to happen.

It was my first Helloween album and still near the top of the rankings.  It's near perfect from beginning to end.  I agree, the mix of heavy songs with Weiki tracks like All Over Nations and Salvation is amazing.

[ariich]

The Dark Ride is great. Probably my second favourite after Time of the Oath. 

[NotePad]

The Dark Ride is a great album and ironically the two "happy" songs that were meant to balance the darkness of the album, Salvation and All Over the Nations, are among the weaker ones.

Escalation 666 already from the title was trying too hard to be heavy and dark, but overall the album had a good balance and I'm still here 20 years later wondering why it broke up the band; Mr. Torture for example has all the trademarks of Helloween even with a darker tone, The Departed is an absolute banger of a song, and the title track is just a masterpiece, with an emotional and uplifting ending.

A kickass album through and through miles and miles better than the following Rabbits don't come Easy. What a mess of an album, just a desperate attempt to go "see? see? it's still happy happy Helloween as you knew!". Meh.

I agree, Rabbit was a desperate attempt to look happy. It was a fairly ordinary, not bad but definitely not great.

It's funny, I bet Sascha must be kind of relieved Kai is back. He seemed to do most of the heavy lifting on stage, and apparently on some albums like Unarmed.

I think their albums can kind of be put into categories based on who played most of the guitars on the recordings. This I gathered thru various interviews. Once you learn that, the overall sounds of the albums make sense. Here's what I noticed:

Dark Ride was mostly Roland playing guitar (and I bet Andi based on how they individually did the album)

Metal Jukebox - Weiki says he did 70% of the guitar

Master of the Rings - Weiki, because that truly was a Weiki run album

Better Than Raw - Weiki, cuz Roland was putting all his time into his solo stuff

[MirrorMask]

The 1994 - 2001 lineup put out some fantastic albums and they deserve to be considered the second classic incarnation of the band. Master of the Rings through The Dark Ride is an amazing run.

Other probably not-so-hot takes:

- The reunion album, without the reunion, would have been another late era Helloween album that probably wouldn't have even surpassed Straight to Hell, which is one of the very best with Sasha along with the unmatched Gambling with the Devil. The album is elevated by Kiske singing and a masterpiece epic by Kai Hansen, take those two elements away, and you're left with yet another recent Helloween album.

- It is my personal and unsunstained belief that My God Given Right was churned out just because they had to, while the reunion was already in the works and in a good stage of development. This would explain why the album was so average and uneventful (they had to do it to move on to the reunion) and why the shows had the very bare minimum of Kiske songs, opening and closing the shows with the rest of the set entirely made up of Deris songs - they knew Kiske would have soon sung all his classics anyway.

[NotePad]

Plus look at 7 Sinners, also Gambling and Straight out of hell. Those albums are damn heavy overall, and have some very dark stuff on them. They say they fired that guys cuz they were steering them in that dark direction and focusing too much on a project that turned into Masterplan. But I think it was more personal.

Listing to Masterplan's discography, I imagine some of their songs would have ended up with Helloween had they not been fired. Roland wrote a lot more Helloween style songs after leaving Helloween it seems. If you don't agree, just listen again to their albums. They're heavier songs, but lyrically positive and very classic power metal songs.

[wolfking]

Plus look at 7 Sinners, also Gambling and Straight out of hell. Those albums are damn heavy overall, and have some very dark stuff on them. They say they fired that guys cuz they were steering them in that dark direction and focusing too much on a project that turned into Masterplan. But I think it was more personal.

Listing to Masterplan's discography, I imagine some of their songs would have ended up with Helloween had they not been fired. Roland wrote a lot more Helloween style songs after leaving Helloween it seems. If you don't agree, just listen again to their albums. They're heavier songs, but lyrically positive and very classic power metal songs.

I think you're right there.  I too always found it strange Weiki didn't like the heavier approach but then after Rabbit, there's many heavy numbers on Sinners and Gambling.  I think it was more a control thing as opposed to taking the band in unwanted directions.

[nick_z]

The 1994 - 2001 lineup put out some fantastic albums and they deserve to be considered the second classic incarnation of the band. Master of the Rings through The Dark Ride is an amazing run.

Other probably not-so-hot takes:

- The reunion album, without the reunion, would have been another late era Helloween album that probably wouldn't have even surpassed Straight to Hell, which is one of the very best with Sasha along with the unmatched Gambling with the Devil. The album is elevated by Kiske singing and a masterpiece epic by Kai Hansen, take those two elements away, and you're left with yet another recent Helloween album.

Totally agree on the initial Deris run. I don't think I can call myself a diehard fan of the band in general, but I'd say The Time of the Oath is one of my favorite Helloween records, period.

On the "reunion" album, I actually partly disagree. Well, I think you are right that there isn't some huge stylistic discontinuity vs. the albums immediately preceding it. But even putting aside Kiske (I know, kinda hard to do), quality-wise, this feels way more inspired. I don't know how much of it was written before the reunion actually happened, but it almost feels like everyone gave their best, from a songwriting standpoint, nostalgia or not. Weikath's songs are some of his best in a long time (imo). Probably my favorite since TTOTO.

[TAC]

I feel like any stylistic change that happened when the band went from Roland to Sasha likely is exaggerated a bit and probably has to do more with Charlie Bauerfiend becoming their producer around the same time. His albums just "sound" heavier.

What I like about all of the albums is that they all write, so it's hard to pinpoint a particular style from album to album and attribute it to just one person.

- The reunion album, without the reunion, would have been another late era Helloween album that probably wouldn't have even surpassed Straight to Hell, which is one of the very best with Sasha along with the unmatched Gambling with the Devil. The album is elevated by Kiske singing and a masterpiece epic by Kai Hansen, take those two elements away, and you're left with yet another recent Helloween album.

Well, it would've been another late era Helloween album. I mean, that's obvious. lol

It's still way more melodic than 7 Sinners and MGGR. Also, it doesn't quite feel as serious as GWTD or SOOH.

I really like the Reunion album, but I feel like they have a better album in them. Weiki's songs are actually quite melodic. Sasha has two excellent songs with Angels almost experimental for the band.
Other than Fear Of The Fallen, I don't think this was a great album writing wise for Andi. Mass Pollution and Cyanide are pretty weak offerings, and I like Indestructible, but Markus has to do better than that next time.


If you simply remove Kiske and Kai, sure, there's another song in place of Skyfall, but I'd still take it over their last few alums. They said that Kai is writing more for the new album so that's good.

[Grappler]

Bah, I love Mass Pollution, but I'm a sucker for heavy, fist-pumping anthem style songs. 

[wolfking]

With Gamma Ray doing nothing studio wise as far as I know, I think we see a lot more of Kai on the new Helloween.  I didn't like it at all when it came out, I think I expected too much, but the band were finding their feet with the new incarnation.  It grew on me a hell of a lot though I will say.  They'll be better for the run and I'm sure we'll see something better again on the next one.  I just hope it happens sometime soon.

[wolfking]

Bah, I love Mass Pollution, but I'm a sucker for heavy, fist-pumping anthem style songs. 

For me, Weiki's songs are by far the best on the album.

Hot take, but my fav from the whole thing is Sascha's, Golden Times.  That's classic Helloween.

[TAC]

Bah, I love Mass Pollution, but I'm a sucker for heavy, fist-pumping anthem style songs. 

So I'll say this. Mass Pollution was great live!

[TAC]

Hot take, but my fav from the whole thing is Sascha's, Golden Times.  That's classic Helloween.

Sasha had a nice album for sure. Good for him!

[wolfking]

Sasha had a nice album for sure. Good for him!

I was lukewarm on him when Rabbits came out as I so was into the Dark Ride and Roland's style.  He's really been the backbone and such an important member and really breathed new life into the band back then.

[Samsara]

So I'll say this. Mass Pollution was great live!

Yeah. Not one of my favorites, but it was a lot of fun to hear live. 

[NotePad]

Indestructible was IMO by far the weakest song on the newest bum. Which is shocking because it's the only song on the album by Marcus.

Mass Pollution has grown on me and now I really like it. But other than that song and a couple others, I'm finding Andi's songwriting to be rather weak on the last few albums, whereas I used to really love the songs he wrote. Nowadays I find the best Helloween songs are credited to Marcus and Weiki.