Symphony X thread!

[devieira73]

I bought it on iTunes and had a very good first impression. There's excellent playing by everyone, but also very good songs!

[Herrick]

I bought it on iTunes and had a very good first impression. There's excellent playing by everyone, but also very good songs!

What did you buy?

[Fritzinger]

I bought it on iTunes and had a very good first impression. There's excellent playing by everyone, but also very good songs!

What did you buy?

New Jason Rullo project: https://youtu.be/STFtuBEgjIs

[devieira73]

3 Rules - The Rule of 3, from the Jason Rullo's band.

[RodrigoAltaf]

My interview with Jason Rullo about his new band 3 Rules, with lots of Symphony X info, was published today: https://www.sonicperspectives.com/interviews/interview-with-jason-rullo/

[Herrick]

Thanks for posting that interview. I shall definitely check it out.

Over the past week, I listened to every album from The Divine Wings of Tragedy up to Underworld...and yeah, Underworld is so much better (for Herrick) than Iconoclast. Iconoclast isn't bad at all but it's just very bland and samey-sounding. I'm going to go back and listen to The Damnation Game. I'm not very familiar with that one. I've only listened to it a few times.

[kirksnosehair]

I've always maintained an interest in Symphony X, but they were pretty much untouchable in my book when I got into them around the time of V: The New Mythology Suite. I'm a huge fan of the more honest sounding productions of Divine Wings through The Odyssey.

From Paradise Lost onwards they got more metal, less prog and the production became a bit.. generic for my tastes. That said, 'When All is Lost' is absolutely great and Underworld was a step in the right direction for me. I actually reviewed the album when it came out in 2015. It's at the bottom of this page: https://www.dprp.net/reviews/2015-070

Paradise Lost was where Russell Allen started being much less melodic in his vocal delivery too and I think that really kind of ruined what made them special for me.  The last album of theirs that I thought was great was The Oddysey and even on that one they started showing a much more straight metal side that I think just makes them sound kind of generic.  It was the progressive elements that originally drew me in. 

These guys used to be an automatic instant pre-order whenever they had a new release but to be honest I haven't really paid much attention to them since Paradise Lost which was the beginning of their decline as far as I'm concerned. 

[kirksnosehair]

New Jason Rullo project: https://youtu.be/STFtuBEgjIs

I appreciate the talent these three musicians clearly have, but I listened to about 30 seconds of that I don't need to ever hear it again.  Very, very few instrumental artists interest me.  The only one I think think of right now is LTE. 

[Herrick]

I've always maintained an interest in Symphony X, but they were pretty much untouchable in my book when I got into them around the time of V: The New Mythology Suite. I'm a huge fan of the more honest sounding productions of Divine Wings through The Odyssey.

From Paradise Lost onwards they got more metal, less prog and the production became a bit.. generic for my tastes. That said, 'When All is Lost' is absolutely great and Underworld was a step in the right direction for me. I actually reviewed the album when it came out in 2015. It's at the bottom of this page: https://www.dprp.net/reviews/2015-070

Paradise Lost was where Russell Allen started being much less melodic in his vocal delivery too and I think that really kind of ruined what made them special for me.  The last album of theirs that I thought was great was The Oddysey and even on that one they started showing a much more straight metal side that I think just makes them sound kind of generic.  It was the progressive elements that originally drew me in. 

These guys used to be an automatic instant pre-order whenever they had a new release but to be honest I haven't really paid much attention to them since Paradise Lost which was the beginning of their decline as far as I'm concerned.

I buy into the theory that the song writing changed when Thomas Miller left the band.

[LudwigVan]

I've always maintained an interest in Symphony X, but they were pretty much untouchable in my book when I got into them around the time of V: The New Mythology Suite. I'm a huge fan of the more honest sounding productions of Divine Wings through The Odyssey.

From Paradise Lost onwards they got more metal, less prog and the production became a bit.. generic for my tastes. That said, 'When All is Lost' is absolutely great and Underworld was a step in the right direction for me. I actually reviewed the album when it came out in 2015. It's at the bottom of this page: https://www.dprp.net/reviews/2015-070

Paradise Lost was where Russell Allen started being much less melodic in his vocal delivery too and I think that really kind of ruined what made them special for me.  The last album of theirs that I thought was great was The Oddysey and even on that one they started showing a much more straight metal side that I think just makes them sound kind of generic.  It was the progressive elements that originally drew me in. 

These guys used to be an automatic instant pre-order whenever they had a new release but to be honest I haven't really paid much attention to them since Paradise Lost which was the beginning of their decline as far as I'm concerned.

I buy into the theory that the song writing changed when Thomas Miller left the band.

The other thing of note is that the keyboardist, Michael Pinnella, used to be all over the songwriting credits on the earlier albums. For instance, he's listed on all 9 songs on Divine Wings of Tragedy, whereas if you look at the more recent output like Iconoclast, practically all the songs are listed as: Music by Romeo / Lyrics by Allen. For whatever reason, it seems that Pinnella no longer contributes in the songwriting department.

[kirksnosehair]

That would definitely explain the more guitar-oriented sound of the last few albums.  I've really never paid much attention to the members of this band other than Russell Allen who I used to worship but now not so much.


I will say that I am very much looking forward to the follow up to Romeo's "War of the Worlds Part 1" album which was pretty great.

[Herrick]

I've always maintained an interest in Symphony X, but they were pretty much untouchable in my book when I got into them around the time of V: The New Mythology Suite. I'm a huge fan of the more honest sounding productions of Divine Wings through The Odyssey.

From Paradise Lost onwards they got more metal, less prog and the production became a bit.. generic for my tastes. That said, 'When All is Lost' is absolutely great and Underworld was a step in the right direction for me. I actually reviewed the album when it came out in 2015. It's at the bottom of this page: https://www.dprp.net/reviews/2015-070

Paradise Lost was where Russell Allen started being much less melodic in his vocal delivery too and I think that really kind of ruined what made them special for me.  The last album of theirs that I thought was great was The Oddysey and even on that one they started showing a much more straight metal side that I think just makes them sound kind of generic.  It was the progressive elements that originally drew me in. 

These guys used to be an automatic instant pre-order whenever they had a new release but to be honest I haven't really paid much attention to them since Paradise Lost which was the beginning of their decline as far as I'm concerned.

I buy into the theory that the song writing changed when Thomas Miller left the band.

The other thing of note is that the keyboardist, Michael Pinnella, used to be all over the songwriting credits on the earlier albums. For instance, he's listed on all 9 songs on Divine Wings of Tragedy, whereas if you look at the more recent output like Iconoclast, practically all the songs are listed as: Music by Romeo / Lyrics by Allen. For whatever reason, it seems that Pinnella no longer contributes in the songwriting department.

Right. Miller had a lot of songwriting credits as well. I'd like to hear why Pinnella does not write anymore.

[Architeuthis]

That would definitely explain the more guitar-oriented sound of the last few albums.  I've really never paid much attention to the members of this band other than Russell Allen who I used to worship but now not so much.

Mike Lepond is one of the best bass players out there as far as I'm concerned. Right up there with Lee, Myung, Squire, Harris etc.

[RodrigoAltaf]

That would definitely explain the more guitar-oriented sound of the last few albums.  I've really never paid much attention to the members of this band other than Russell Allen who I used to worship but now not so much.

Mike Lepond is one of the best bass players out there as far as I'm concerned. Right up there with Lee, Myung, Squire, Harris etc.

He's also more metal oriented, as opposed to prog/neoclassical. He loves Manowar, Priest, Maiden etc. His Silent Assassins project is pure metal, and really cool. But I think all of them agree that they went as far as they could with that neoclassical style, and Odyssey is the direction all of them want to go for now.

[Architeuthis]

I love his Silent Assassins albums!

[EPICVIEW]

I've always maintained an interest in Symphony X, but they were pretty much untouchable in my book when I got into them around the time of V: The New Mythology Suite. I'm a huge fan of the more honest sounding productions of Divine Wings through The Odyssey.

From Paradise Lost onwards they got more metal, less prog and the production became a bit.. generic for my tastes. That said, 'When All is Lost' is absolutely great and Underworld was a step in the right direction for me. I actually reviewed the album when it came out in 2015. It's at the bottom of this page: https://www.dprp.net/reviews/2015-070

Paradise Lost was where Russell Allen started being much less melodic in his vocal delivery too and I think that really kind of ruined what made them special for me.  The last album of theirs that I thought was great was The Oddysey and even on that one they started showing a much more straight metal side that I think just makes them sound kind of generic.  It was the progressive elements that originally drew me in. 

These guys used to be an automatic instant pre-order whenever they had a new release but to be honest I haven't really paid much attention to them since Paradise Lost which was the beginning of their decline as far as I'm concerned.

I tend to agree,,,,,,Ive seen them many times from the start and they are mind numbing good as we know , but I agree with your view on Russ's change vocally and I agree, I like the softer more melodic side , Hes at times now too upfront and dominating, he continued that into Ad Mob... Romeo is a total beast and I love his playing

[goo-goo]

What did Jason say about Symphony X? Are they writing/recording?

[bosk1]

That would definitely explain the more guitar-oriented sound of the last few albums.  I've really never paid much attention to the members of this band other than Russell Allen who I used to worship but now not so much.

Totally.  It cannot be overstated how much a band's sound can change when the writing team changes like that.  I mean, you have the obvious factor of just having another personality coming into the writing.  But even if Romeo consciously tries to write things that he thinks will sound like they have Pinella's influence, the instrument itself can be a big factor.  I remember in the early 2000s when Dave Meniketti (Y&T) took a break from the guitar-oriented '80s hard rock sound of Y&T and wrote a couple of solo albums, and he talked about how the writing was so much different.  One of the key factors was incorporating more keyboard, and him writing a lot of that from sitting at a piano, which he hadn't done on any of the Y&T albums.  It was still very much guitar-oriented rock.  But it sounded different.  And when he was talking about it, he pointed out that a lot of that came from him messing around on the piano, and how he would stumble upon things that sounded really good that he never in a million years would have come up with from just messing around on a guitar, just because the mechanics of playing keys is so different, so he would stumble upon note and chord combinations that he wouldn't have thought of with a guitar in hand.  I think that's actually a pretty natural phenomenon.  Even for a composer who might write a lot of music in his/her head, and then transcribe it to an instrument, when you are coming at music from the perspective of "guitarist," you will not necessarily come up with the same thing as you would if you were coming at the music from the perspective of "keyboardist," and vice versa.  Even for a multiinstrumentalist, I think there is a natural tendency to subconsciously come to music that physically makes sense within the context of the instrument you are consciously thinking of composing for, and it is harder to think outside the box of what makes sense for that composer's playing style on that particular instrument. 

I feel like I'm starting to ramble, but hopefully that makes as much sense typed out as it did in my head.

[Ben_Jamin]

That would definitely explain the more guitar-oriented sound of the last few albums.  I've really never paid much attention to the members of this band other than Russell Allen who I used to worship but now not so much.

Totally.  It cannot be overstated how much a band's sound can change when the writing team changes like that.  I mean, you have the obvious factor of just having another personality coming into the writing.  But even if Romeo consciously tries to write things that he thinks will sound like they have Pinella's influence, the instrument itself can be a big factor.  I remember in the early 2000s when Dave Meniketti (Y&T) took a break from the guitar-oriented '80s hard rock sound of Y&T and wrote a couple of solo albums, and he talked about how the writing was so much different.  One of the key factors was incorporating more keyboard, and him writing a lot of that from sitting at a piano, which he hadn't done on any of the Y&T albums.  It was still very much guitar-oriented rock.  But it sounded different.  And when he was talking about it, he pointed out that a lot of that came from him messing around on the piano, and how he would stumble upon things that sounded really good that he never in a million years would have come up with from just messing around on a guitar, just because the mechanics of playing keys is so different, so he would stumble upon note and chord combinations that he wouldn't have thought of with a guitar in hand.  I think that's actually a pretty natural phenomenon.  Even for a composer who might write a lot of music in his/her head, and then transcribe it to an instrument, when you are coming at music from the perspective of "guitarist," you will not necessarily come up with the same thing as you would if you were coming at the music from the perspective of "keyboardist," and vice versa.  Even for a multiinstrumentalist, I think there is a natural tendency to subconsciously come to music that physically makes sense within the context of the instrument you are consciously thinking of composing for, and it is harder to think outside the box of what makes sense for that composer's playing style on that particular instrument. 

I feel like I'm starting to ramble, but hopefully that makes as much sense typed out as it did in my head.

Yup, being me with my stuff I end up making on Guitar Pro. I have an idea, and then try and put what I hear, onto it. It's a bit hard without music theory knowledge, but I do know enough to get me through it. It's also why I got a Keyboard, because composing on bass is kind of difficult  . That alone changed how I compose music now, and It's opened up a lot with how write. And when I write guitar parts on Gpro, and when I play them, I do other things I wouldn't have done or thought of. Then I try and write that down on Gpro.

It's also how I understood the point of demos, and how much a song can change when one musician shares his demo with the band, and the band incorporates their ways of playing that idea to make it the bands song. I think that is one reason why I see both Geoff Tate and Queensryche or more Great White and Jack Russels Great White (whom I still have yet to see), because I want to hear the actual musicians (or the majority) of the musicians whom recorded the on the album, live. But it also, helped me understand the difference a new member can have in the band, and his interpretations of the new demos the same musician brings in. And their interpretations of the compostitions of the musician they're replacing. Which is why I like Mangini and really enjoy him in DT.

In this case of Symphony X, I really enjoy Pinellas compositions. And that could be why I enjoy Underworld too, as he has more of them on here.

[Dream Team]

To me it didn't make a lot of sense for Russell to change his style. It's not like they were ever going to be popular anyway. So why go generic and tarnish the legacy? 

[Zook]

To me it didn't make a lot of sense for Russell to change his style. It's not like they were ever going to be popular anyway. So why go generic and tarnish the legacy? 

Have you listened to Underworld? His legacy is far from tarnished.

[jingle.boy]

To me it didn't make a lot of sense for Russell to change his style. It's not like they were ever going to be popular anyway. So why go generic and tarnish the legacy? 

Have you listened to Underworld? His legacy is far from tarnished.

Exactly. I put Underworld in he top 3, maybe even ahead of Divine Wings.

[Lethean]

I guess I wouldn't say it's tarnished in the industry or anything like that.  But, it's kinda tarnished for me. There is certainly some great singing on both PL and Iconoclast.  Even more on Underworld.  But when someone mentions Russell Allen, my first thought isn't positive.  Maybe it's a combination of his more aggressive singing with SX irritating me, plus how horrid (imo of course) Adrenaline Mob was, plus the last time I saw him with SX (on the Underworld tour)  where he was pretty cringy on stage.  Whenever someone mentions that Sons of Apollo would be better with Russell vs JSS, I think "no it wouldn't."  This is probably a me problem and I know he's capable of great singing and Underworld was a really good album and I liked the majority of the tracks.  But I still find my first reaction to a new SX album to be "we'll see" and to Russell as a little negative.

[Architeuthis]

I think his singing is just fine on Adrenaline Mob, plus the songs are quite good imo.  I'm glad I don't go by other people's opinions,  as I would have missed out on a lot of great music.
He is superb on Underworld! 

[kirksnosehair]

Amazing.  I find his vocals on Underworld pretty much ruined that album

[ariich]

I do have a soft spot for Paradise Lost. Not their best, but it was damn epic, an absolute riff factory, and had some really great tunes on it. I didn't mind the heavier, crunchier, narrower style and thought they did it well, and at the time it was a bit different for them. Iconoclast felt like more of the same, but really bloated (the full version of the album anyway) and with not as many strong hooks - the combination of those factors made it much less interesting to me from what I remember.

To be honest I don't really remember much about Underworld. I don't remember loving it but I was probably not in much of a SX mood at the time, so I should give it another go sometime.

[krands85]

I really like Paradise Lost as well, despite preferring the vocal style on earlier albums. It was my first new album since becoming a fan of the band, so maybe that has a bit of an influence, but I love a lot of the tracks and it's probably second only to TDWOT for me.

I found Underworld pretty consistent, but I feel like it lacked the highs of previous albums - even Iconoclast had its title track, The End of Innocence and When All is Lost. Nothing from Underworld would be among my favourite SX songs. Been a while since I listened to it as well though, need to check it out again soon.

[sam1oq]

I really like Paradise Lost as well, despite preferring the vocal style on earlier albums. It was my first new album since becoming a fan of the band, so maybe that has a bit of an influence, but I love a lot of the tracks and it's probably second only to TDWOT for me.

I found Underworld pretty consistent, but I feel like it lacked the highs of previous albums - even Iconoclast had its title track, The End of Innocence and When All is Lost. Nothing from Underworld would be among my favourite SX songs. Been a while since I listened to it as well though, need to check it out again soon.

Swansong tho

[PixelDream]

They should have corny production like on Divine Wings and make epic castle prog again. But that's just me I guess. Still like their mechanical sounding tough guy metal stuff as well though.

[RodrigoAltaf]

They should have corny production like on Divine Wings and make epic castle prog again. But that's just me I guess. Still like their mechanical sounding tough guy metal stuff as well though.

But they won't. Asking that of them is the equivalent of wishing MP comes back to DT.

[kirksnosehair]

eh, never say never.  Is it likely?  Probably not.  But you never know.  Michael Romeo is getting his aggressive / riff-oriented stuff out on his solo albums now so perhaps he'll take Symphony X back in a more melodic/symphonic direction if they ever get around to doing another album.  I'm not holding out hope though.  To me this band peaked with The Odyssey   

[EPICVIEW]

eh, never say never.  Is it likely?  Probably not.  But you never know.  Michael Romeo is getting his aggressive / riff-oriented stuff out on his solo albums now so perhaps he'll take Symphony X back in a more melodic/symphonic direction if they ever get around to doing another album.  I'm not holding out hope though.  To me this band peaked with The Odyssey

again ...  I tend to agree,,,,, 

[PixelDream]

eh, never say never.  Is it likely?  Probably not.  But you never know.  Michael Romeo is getting his aggressive / riff-oriented stuff out on his solo albums now so perhaps he'll take Symphony X back in a more melodic/symphonic direction if they ever get around to doing another album.  I'm not holding out hope though.  To me this band peaked with The Odyssey

again ...  I tend to agree,,,,,

I agree, the harsher Dio-esque vocals and Pantera-ish riffs were a nice addition there and weren't overshadowing their epic/prog side there. And the title track is just so unbelievably good.

[Fritzinger]

I really like Paradise Lost as well, despite preferring the vocal style on earlier albums. It was my first new album since becoming a fan of the band, so maybe that has a bit of an influence, but I love a lot of the tracks and it's probably second only to TDWOT for me.

I found Underworld pretty consistent, but I feel like it lacked the highs of previous albums - even Iconoclast had its title track, The End of Innocence and When All is Lost. Nothing from Underworld would be among my favourite SX songs. Been a while since I listened to it as well though, need to check it out again soon.

Underworld was consistent, you're right. But while it lacks a Reign Of Madness, Divus Pennae or Odyssey, I think it has some of their strongest hooks. Many songs say what there is to say in 4-6 minutes. Sometimes, Legend pops into my head out of nowhere, that tune has such strong melodies!

I'm totally fine with the music they're making right now (except they could make it a little more often), it sounds confident, not unnecessarily complicated, it rocks, it's amazingly performed and sung and it's fun 

[Architeuthis]

I really like Paradise Lost as well, despite preferring the vocal style on earlier albums. It was my first new album since becoming a fan of the band, so maybe that has a bit of an influence, but I love a lot of the tracks and it's probably second only to TDWOT for me.

I found Underworld pretty consistent, but I feel like it lacked the highs of previous albums - even Iconoclast had its title track, The End of Innocence and When All is Lost. Nothing from Underworld would be among my favourite SX songs. Been a while since I listened to it as well though, need to check it out again soon.

I'm totally fine with the music they're making right now (except they could make it a little more often)

Exactly!  The bass player (Mike Lepond) has put out three killer solo albums since Underworld. That's why I can't figure out why SX hasn't even put out one album since then.  Perhaps something to do with the other band members circumstances?  I know Michael Romeo helped Lepond produce his three Silent Assassins albums.