*OFFICIAL* A Dramatic Turn Of Events discussion thread -- **SPOILER ALERT!!!**

[bosk1]

I agree that James can handle "tough" vocals.  He's proven that.  And he did those kinds of vocals a lot, even on the previous two albums.  It's just that Mike started doing some of them.  The amount that Mike did on ADTOE was fine for me.

You must have gotten the special edition, huh?

Oops.  Heh!    Fixed now.  That's what happens when you are typing a post at work and get interrupted in the middle of your thought.

[TAC]

 I'm sorry. But WTF are "Bellamy" vocals?

[BlobVanDam]

I'm sorry. But WTF are "Bellamy" vocals?

Apparently he's the guy from Muse. So Muse vocals, ie Never Enough. The one song that remotely sounds like Muse.

[KevShmev]

No more Portnoy vocals is definitely a great thing!  Sure, there are a few examples of when they sort of worked, but generally they were usually like, ick.  The new album reminds me of the 90s when any and all vocals heard are by Mr. James La Brie.  As they should be.  When you have a singer as good as JLB, having a secondary singer who is that much worse really stands out.  It would be like if Yes had had only Steve Howe doing background vocals or harmonies behind or with Jon Anderson.  The absence of Chris Squire would have left a big gap.  Along those lines, had DT had a secondary singer who could sing as well and had as good a voice as Squire, Portnoy's voice as the third one probably would have been fine (since you'd almost never hear it on its own, but its presence would help harmonies sound fuller and thicker). 

[Implode]

And parts of Panic Attack. The

"Run
Try to hide
Overwhelmed by this complex delirium"

section sounds like it was influence by Bellamy a lot.

[BlobVanDam]

And parts of Panic Attack. The

"Run
Try to hide
Overwhelmed by this complex delirium"

section sounds like it was influence by Bellamy a lot.

So using falsetto vocals means it's Muse now? To me it was just JLB trying something stylistically different. I don't see that's a bad thing at all.

[IdoSC]

Maybe that's why he put extra effort in ?

I think it's safer to assume it's because he was given much more freedom in this album.

[Implode]

I may have misrepresented myself. I like the vocals in Panic Attack, and I don't really know they were inspired by Muse, but that's what they remind me of. And it's not falsetto. It's the way he slides into the notes.

[Tomislav95]

My rank list:
1. Breaking All Illusions
2. Bridges in the Sky
3. Outcry
4. This is the Life
5. Beneath the Surface
6. Far from Heaven
7. On the Backs of Angels
8. Lost Not Forgotten
9. Build Me Up, Break Me Down

Now album is for me really great. I rank it as my top 5 DT album

[Cruithne]

Well, I'm baffled any DT fan could not like this album. They basically fixed EVERYTHING that was wrong with their 00s output:

No MP lead vocals
No forcing JLB to sing like Hetfield/Bellamy/etc
Using Jordan to full potential
Myung involved again
Improved lyrics
Great vocal melodies and choruses
No tired solo trade-offs

Whatever.

To be fair, I think MP has quite a pleasant light baritone singing voice that works well in some situations (e.g. Transatlantic), it was just his insistence on doing "tough guy" vocals that his voice isn't suited to that got on my nerves (...and then there's those narrations that he was fond of throwing in that never sounded good, particularly when pitch shifted down  )

As for the improved lyrics, it is ironic that the last two albums it was Petrucci whose lyrics had fallen off a cliff and MP's whose lyrics had become more reliable. Still, I won't miss the fact that MP's favourite subject for writing lyrics about is Mike Portnoy.

[Jaffa]

I'm sorry. But WTF are "Bellamy" vocals?

Apparently he's the guy from Muse. So Muse vocals, ie Never Enough. The one song that remotely sounds like Muse.

Well, here I disagree.  True, Never Enough is the song that most blatantly sounds like Muse (isn't it essentially just Stockholme Syndrome reworked?), but I do hear Muse in a couple others as well.  Prophets of War and parts of Panic Attack always remind me of Muse.  I know it's just a singing style he's using, but in my opinion, JLB singing falsetto does sound quite a bit like Matthew Bellamy. 

For the record, I'm not saying it's a bad thing.  Muse is one of my favorite bands.  So I'm not trying to argue that the 'Bellamy vocals' are a bad thing at all.  Just saying I can understand why people call them 'Bellamy vocals'. 

[aXygnus]

And parts of Panic Attack. The

"Run
Try to hide
Overwhelmed by this complex delirium"

section sounds like it was influence by Bellamy a lot.

So using falsetto vocals means it's Muse now? To me it was just JLB trying something stylistically different. I don't see that's a bad thing at all.

I don't think he implied it was bad... Did you? 

Funny thing though, I was listening to Panic Attack for the first time in weeks yesterday and noticed some Bellamy influence in that bridge section. But it really fits. I really like that part, after the 2nd chorus.

[BlobVanDam]

I'm sorry. But WTF are "Bellamy" vocals?

Apparently he's the guy from Muse. So Muse vocals, ie Never Enough. The one song that remotely sounds like Muse.

Well, here I disagree.  True, Never Enough is the song that most blatantly sounds like Muse (isn't it essentially just Stockholme Syndrome reworked?), but I do hear Muse in a couple others as well.  Prophets of War and parts of Panic Attack always remind me of Muse.  I know it's just a singing style he's using, but in my opinion, JLB singing falsetto does sound quite a bit like Matthew Bellamy. 

For the record, I'm not saying it's a bad thing.  Muse is one of my favorite bands.  So I'm not trying to argue that the 'Bellamy vocals' are a bad thing at all.  Just saying I can understand why people call them 'Bellamy vocals'. 

Ok, I can see Panic Attack, with the softer high vocals and heavy vibrato. Prophets of War not as much to me. Maybe a little in the intro, but it doesn't sound like an intentional influence there to me. Again it's mostly the softer vocal style.

As the original point was about forcing JLB to sing like Bellamy, Never Enough still sounds like the only song that is intentionally Muse-ish to me (which is undeniable given the style of the rest of the song). The other two I can sort of get, but like you, I don't consider them a bad thing at all. It's a slight influence at most anyway. And the original argument (from Dream Team) was that it was a bad thing.

[Jaffa]

As the original point was about forcing JLB to sing like Bellamy, Never Enough still sounds like the only song that is intentionally Muse-ish to me (which is undeniable given the style of the rest of the song). The other two I can sort of get, but like you, I don't consider them a bad thing at all. It's a slight influence at most anyway. And the original argument (from Dream Team) was that it was a bad thing.

Oh, I understand.  Please don't think I'm disagreeing with your overall point.  Just one of those 'I DISAGREE WITH SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET I MUST POINT IT OUT EVEN THOUGH IT'S BARELY RELEVANT' moments.   

[FracturedMirror]

Well, I'm baffled any DT fan could not like this album. They basically fixed EVERYTHING that was wrong with their 00s output:

No MP lead vocals
No forcing JLB to sing like Hetfield/Bellamy/etc
Using Jordan to full potential
Myung involved again
Improved lyrics
Great vocal melodies and choruses
No tired solo trade-offs

Whatever.

The problem with your reasoning is that you assume that every fan had a problem with their 00s output and thought there were all of these problems to fix.

Yeah, for the most part none of those are things that I thought needed "fixed".

Really? You think JR just doubling JP's guitar is a good use of his talent? You liked the idea of MP horning in more and more on the vocals for each album? You think making JLB sing like he did on CM and TDEN is an effective use of his voice? Exactly which of the things on my list were you happy with???

Okay, I'll briefly respond to each point individually:

1. MP's vocals - I have no problem with most of them.  I actually think they added to the songs most of the time.
2. JLB being "forced" to sing like other people - I enjoy his voice a lot when he's singing in his "metal" style.  And I love TDEN.  I'm not familiar with Bellamy, and I never really thought he sounded like Hetfield.  Personally, the metal singer his grittier style reminds the most of is Mustaine.
3. Jordan's being held back - I don't really think he's been held back.  There's never been a shortage of keyboards on any DT release, either studio or live.  I do really like the "real" piano on the new album.
4. Myung's increased involvement - This is a really good thing, in my opinion.  Happy about it.
5. Improved lyrics - Overall, I haven't minded the lyrics on any of the albums.  There may be a song or two on each whose lyrics I don't necessarily like as well, but that holds true for ADTOE as well.
6. Vocal melodies and choruses - I haven't found this area lacking in the past, and I don't see it lacking now.
7. No "tired" solo trade offs - I really like the dueling solos.

[CodyWanKenobi]

Anyone else mention how they were happy that OTBOA starts with the birds chirping that ended TCOT?

(I mean, it seems like it was in a lower register, but still)

[bosk1]

I think the birds were just a bit off key on TCOT, so they pitch-corrected them on OTBOA.

[chrisbDTM]

6:45-7:09 in outcry sounds like it couldve been on mr. bungle's selftitled album

which is awesome

[antigoon]

I've listened to the album a number of times. Still haven't formed my final thoughts but I think I've heard it enough to judge it.

It's pretty good! DT's brand of music has fallen out of favor with me somewhat over the past two years, but I still find this to be a mostly enjoyable listen all the way through. Undoubtedly, the hardcore DT fans are/will love it.

Things I like:
Rudess - He's everywhere on this album and it really shows. Love the piano bits and the electronic elements.

Petrucci's guitar tone has some great crunch without being overbearingly heavy. It reminds me of his tone from Scenes.

Myung - He's alive! I like that he does more than double the guitar. He seems to be in lockstep with the drums more often than not, which really drives the songs.

This is the Life - A great, modern DT ballad. Wither is great, but it sounds like it's from an era past. The super tasteful playing by everyone in the band really lets the song breathe. I was waiting for Petrucci's final solo to turn into a shredfest but he held back and got one of the best solos on the record out of it. Love the bluesiness of it.



Things I don't like:
Some of the ballads sound a bit kitschy. Far From Heaven is really pretty, but it's a little too Disney for my tastes.

Outcry - This song just does not work for me. In my mind, it has the worst chorus on the album both musically and lyrically. It's just so vanilla sounding and bland to me. Nothing from the instrumental section sticks out to me, either.




Overall, it's a nice refinement to the modern Dream Theater sound.

[duncan3dc]

Anyone else mention how they were happy that OTBOA starts with the birds chirping that ended TCOT?

(I mean, it seems like it was in a lower register, but still)

Not sure about birds chirping, but ever since I heard the strange sounds in the beginning I've wondering if there was a nugget there. Sounds like somebody talking

[Metabog]

I'm getting increasingly irritated at people saying the synth lead on BTS is "out of tune" or "cheap sounding".

I don't know, but I had a big smile on my face when I heard it and instantly thought of buttery goodness and ELP.

[Jaffa]

Is it just me, or is anyone else amused by the sheer volume of people phrasing their opinions on this album in the form of 'is it just me, or...' questions?

[bosk1]

Is it just me, or are you easily amused?

[chrisbDTM]

i lol every time i watch the part in the documentary after priester finishes and jordan just goes 'you did a fuckin great job'. the most threatening compliment ever. 

[Pyroph]

Mulling over the album at first I wasn't really feeling it, but this album is really hitting me now. 

[Sintheros]

Just got the new album, having heard none of it except for OTBOA.

I'm on BMUBMD, and I was compelled to make this post because...

Tonight i am the new messiah
You deify
When i'm no longer desired
I'll be crucified

When i'm no longer desired
I'll be crucified

I'll be crucified

crucified

CRUCIFYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

[Perpetual Change]

 

[BlobVanDam]

[Bacong]

the riff JP plays during the verses of OTBOA is pretty coo.

[ariich]

CRUCIFYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

[Bill Carson]

Okay I've listened to it enough to make sense of all this chaos....

Post Sex Degrees i've liked all of DT's output, it may of not of blown me away like previously but they've still maintained a high level.
However this album is on another level !!!
I'm still sad that MP has left and wish they could of produced this album with him, the truth of the matter is that he needed to leave for this to happen.
Its so epic, melodic, heartfelt and well truly incredible. Can't stop listening to it, I've not been this excited for ages with regards to DT.
It feels like the spirit & integrity of DT has come back, they're taking chances, they're not looking at anyone else and trying to sound like this or that.
JMX is back, Jordan has gone up a level, JLB is just awesome free of having to sound like James Hetfield or Dave Mustaine and JP...well what can you say that's not been said about him.

Everyone has their opinions and mine is that this is their best album since Scenes...yes I'll put it even higher than Six Degrees, and I love that album.


p.s Almost forgot...welcome MM you have done yourself proud !

[The Curious Orange]

I've listened to this a few more times and I'm still struggling. The shorter songs are fine, fantastic in fact, but the four longer (10 mins plus) songs just don't stand out. They're all too similar. I'm reminded of Iron Maiden's The Final Frontier album, and how the longer songs are all so different to each other. These songs just seem very standard DT fare - manic intro-verse-verse -chorus-bridge-chorus-bridge- wierd instrumental- final chorus reprise.

BITS has a great melodic chorus, and Outcry rocks, so those 2 are my favourites. LNF just seems pretty lame, and is my least favourite. I think I'll listen to the album again, and programme the CD player to skip LNF and see if that makes the album stronger.

As an audiophile, this album sounds fantastic. JLB is better than he's ever sounded, and the spaces between the instruments are crystal clear. JMX's bass thumps up the wall and makes the whole house shake. Acoustically, their best production yet, although the drums could do with being a little louder.  A true audiophile's dream.

[Dream Team]

I've listened to this a few more times and I'm still struggling. The shorter songs are fine, fantastic in fact, but the four longer (10 mins plus) songs just don't stand out. They're all too similar. I'm reminded of Iron Maiden's The Final Frontier album, and how the longer songs are all so different to each other. These songs just seem very standard DT fare - manic intro-verse-verse -chorus-bridge-chorus-bridge- wierd instrumental- final chorus reprise.

BITS has a great melodic chorus, and Outcry rocks, so those 2 are my favourites. LNF just seems pretty lame, and is my least favourite. I think I'll listen to the album again, and programme the CD player to skip LNF and see if that makes the album stronger.

As an audiophile, this album sounds fantastic. JLB is better than he's ever sounded, and the spaces between the instruments are crystal clear. JMX's bass thumps up the wall and makes the whole house shake. Acoustically, their best production yet, although the drums could do with being a little louder.  A true audiophile's dream.

You need to listen to Breaking All Illusions more. 

[The Curious Orange]

You need to listen to Breaking All Illusions more. 

Yeah, I do - I need to listen to the whole album more. I'm just saying that so far, none of those longer songs, including BAI, has really grabbed me yet. That doesn't mean they're not going to grow on me and become firm favourites over time (well, possibly not LNF). That's what I love about DT, it's music that demands repeated listening and gets better with time.

[aXygnus]

Post Sex Degrees i've liked all of DT's output, it may of not of blown me away

Oh you.