Bottom Ten: Worst/Least-Greatest Dream Theater Songs

[KevShmev]

Serious questions:



Do you think it was low budget for Mike Portnoy to rip Kevin Moore in Raise the Knife?    - Maybe, but the song wasn't released on an actual album  (yes, I know it was on SCORE). IMO, the lyrics in Looking Glass were much more blatant.

Or the fans in Never Enough?   --   No.

Or his step-father in Honor Thy Father?   --  Not in the least.

Strange.

[Tony From Long Island]

Serious questions:



Do you think it was low budget for Mike Portnoy to rip Kevin Moore in Raise the Knife?    - Maybe, but the song wasn't released on an actual album  (yes, I know it was on SCORE). IMO, the lyrics in Looking Glass were much more blatant.

Or the fans in Never Enough?   --   No.

Or his step-father in Honor Thy Father?   --  Not in the least.

Strange.

Could you elaborate on what you find strange?  The questions or my answers?   :-)

[Prog Snob]

Serious questions:



Do you think it was low budget for Mike Portnoy to rip Kevin Moore in Raise the Knife?    - Maybe, but the song wasn't released on an actual album  (yes, I know it was on SCORE). IMO, the lyrics in Looking Glass were much more blatant.

Or the fans in Never Enough?   --   No.

Or his step-father in Honor Thy Father?   --  Not in the least.

Strange.

Could you elaborate on what you find strange?  The questions or my answers?   :-)

Your insistence in thinking The Looking Glass is somewhat of a Portnoy bashing song. Portnoy and Petrucci are two different personalities. While they can both be controlling in their own way, as far as what they portray extrovertedly, Petrucci is far more reserved. He would never write a song bashing someone, while MP would write the same song laced with fuckity fuck fucks all over the place.

[Tony From Long Island]

"........Petrucci is far more reserved. He would never write a song bashing someone,......"

This could be why I am much more bothered by the LG lyrics, which in my opinion are an OBVIOUS slight at MP.

What does "you're digging up a goldmine" have to do with you tube people?

"Standing on the sidelines   Watching through the looking glass"      Who's on the sidelines now?

"All that you protected doesn't matter anymore"    - has nothing to do with You Tubers.   Who protected the DT image? Who was the official bootleg guy?  MP



This is a good topic for it's own thread I guess.

[Enigmachine]

This could be why I am much more bothered by the LG lyrics, which in my opinion are an OBVIOUS slight at MP.

No, they aren't. 

What does "you're digging up a goldmine" have to do with you tube people?

Taking the easy route to fame? Definitely can't be associated with MP. Definitely can be associated with wannabe celebrities on YT.

"Standing on the sidelines   Watching through the looking glass"      Who's on the sidelines now?

MP may on the 'sidelines' for lack of a better term, but 'watching through the looking glass' (which would imply laziness) doesn't apply. MP is hard at work on like 10 different projects that while not as well known as DT (hence how 'sidelines' could apply) are pretty consistently high quality.

All that you protected doesn't matter anymore"

Refers to the fickle nature of wannabe celebrities to appeal to the masses, hence abandoning all they 'protected' (their own values, in this case). Not MP.

[Mladen]

This is the first time I see The Looking class being connected with Mike Portnoy. There were theories about some songs on ADTOE, but not this one.

[de_fromage]

The hate for WDADU makes me  . Yes it's raw but it has a lot of potential elements that helped to create I&W and so I enjoy it.

Still. Not a fan of TOWHTSTS.

Others I'm not a fan of:
Scarred (sue me. Not a fan. I just think the love for it is overrated)
You Not Me
A Rite of Passage
Constant Motion
Forsaken
This Dying Soul

There are others. Can't think of it.

#BringBackChrisCollins

https://yourmajesty.ytmnd.com 

WDADU is great, that intro from AFIL... 

[de_fromage]

The hate for WDADU makes me  . Yes it's raw but it has a lot of potential elements that helped to create I&W and so I enjoy it.

Agreed. I can think of plenty other albums that I would consider garbage way before I would say that of WDADU.

I have also wondered about the dislike for WDADU. There's really only song on it that I don't really care for  (Light fuse...).   Maybe someone who didn't get into DT until much later would consider it rather primitive, but maybe for us long-timers it was part of a natural progression

There's no reason to hate that album, it's great when they look back a little and play a couple of songs from that album.

[KevShmev]

Serious questions:



Do you think it was low budget for Mike Portnoy to rip Kevin Moore in Raise the Knife?    - Maybe, but the song wasn't released on an actual album  (yes, I know it was on SCORE). IMO, the lyrics in Looking Glass were much more blatant.

Or the fans in Never Enough?   --   No.

Or his step-father in Honor Thy Father?   --  Not in the least.

Strange.

Could you elaborate on what you find strange?  The questions or my answers?   :-)

Your answers. 

I am always a fan of lyrics that are clever enough to be viewed in several different ways, but it is really stretching it to suggest that The Looking Glass is about Portnoy.

Acting like Raise the Knife isn't relevant because it wasn't on an official album did make me chuckle, though.

[shredd]

This is easy for me:

Falling Into Infinity's first ten tracks

except for Trial of Tears that album just does not appeal to me, and I'm not just brushing it off for obvious reasons, I really have tried to find something to like through many times listening to it.

[Tony From Long Island]

Your answers. 

I am always a fan of lyrics that are clever enough to be viewed in several different ways, but it is really stretching it to suggest that The Looking Glass is about Portnoy.

[/quote]

Can't be much of a stretch if it was an instantaneous thought to me immediately upon hearing the song for the first time.  If they are NOT about MP, they are very "clever," as you put it    :-)

[Dave_Manchester]

I know it's all subjective but nevertheless I've always wondered why so many fans dislike You Not Me. To me it's a fun little song with a decent chorus and some tasty guitar flourishes from JP. Certainly not a DT classic but by no means a bad song.

As for 10 least favourite DT songs, that's a tough one because I like/love almost every song they've written (from Images and Words onwards). Leaving out WDADU (which I so rarely listen to) and Raw Dog, these would be the 10 songs I like least:

Another Day
Burning My Soul
Just Let Me Breathe
Through Her Eyes
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Honor Thy Father
Sacrificed Sons
Prophets of War
A Rite of Passage
Lost Not Forgotten

[425]

Serious questions:



Do you think it was low budget for Mike Portnoy to rip Kevin Moore in Raise the Knife?    - Maybe, but the song wasn't released on an actual album  (yes, I know it was on SCORE). IMO, the lyrics in Looking Glass were much more blatant.

Or the fans in Never Enough?   --   No.

Or his step-father in Honor Thy Father?   --  Not in the least.

Strange.

Could you elaborate on what you find strange?  The questions or my answers?   :-)

I think what's strange about your answers is that it seems like you're fine with it when Mike does it, but not fine when John maybe does it.

You know, I'm pretty sure Mike said on either FB or Twitter a couple of months ago that he actually now has a friendly relationship with the stepfather he called "the rotted root in the family tree" in Honor Thy Father. Good that they've patched things up, but that song is on the record forever. I'd say that's a bit more questionable than some vague lyrics that maybe possibly could be about MP but probably aren't in The Looking Glass ("You are not content with being nameless and unknown" <-- this does not sound like a reference to MP, who was solidly a minor celebrity in 2010 and didn't increase his fame by leaving DT—and who is probably more famous than JP).

Personally, even if The Looking Glass is about Mike Portnoy (which it isn't), I don't have a problem with it. It's vague, there's plausible deniability, and it's clearly a subject matter that John felt strongly about. I think so long as you steer clear of names or identifying details, there's nothing wrong with writing a song about somebody who was important in your life. How would any breakup songs ever be written otherwise? Taylor Swift would have to retire from music (you know I'm just teasing, Tay )! I also have no problem with Raise the Knife (and, listen, whether Mike was being fair to Kevin or not, I connect personally to the lyrics of that song, so I'm glad he wrote them). I also have no problem with Honor Thy Father. Most of all, I certainly have no problem with Never Enough. I think that's all fair game for subject matter. So long as it's not like "Kevin Moore, you ruined my life, here's this personal conversation we had between us that I'll put in a song in explicit detail just to spite you." I think it's also a totally legitimate opinion if you disagree with me about things like Raise the Knife and Honor Thy Father being fair game.

But I don't think you can say that Honor Thy Father and Raise the Knife are okay, but The Looking Glass isn't. I think you have to pick a standard and apply it the same to everybody.

[Tony From Long Island]

". . . . . . . .But I don't think you can say that Honor Thy Father and Raise the Knife are okay, but The Looking Glass isn't. I think you have to pick a standard and apply it the same to everybody. . . . . . . "


Your post was very logical and thought out.  Made me think why I am more "upset" at a something I perceive as a slight at MP by John, but not slights by MP at others.   Maybe it was just the tone. The moment I heard that tone, it just sounded like it was a vicious stab. It didn't seem veiled to me.

As for the faceless and unknown line.   He went from DT to Avenged Sevenfold, which is a band much more known in the "mainstream," rather than the relatively unknown (except to us rabid fans) DT.     As long as we all know that this "discussion" isn't personal and we can all disagree and still be fans, it's all good.

You have made me want to look more into the Raise the Knife Lyrics, which I will do   :-)

[Enigmachine]

rather than the relatively unknown (except to us rabid fans) DT.

Pretty sure that DT are at least moderately well known.

[Dream Team]

On topic, half of FII and some newer tunes:

You Not Me
Burning My Soul
Hollow Years
Just Let Me Breathe
Anna Lee
Honor Thy Father
The Dark Eternal Night
Never Enough
Prophets of War
ITPOE Pt 2

[SebastianPratesi]

rather than the relatively unknown (except to us rabid fans) DT.

Pretty sure that DT are at least moderately well known.

Your comment made me remember that, to my surprise, around my area there are many people who have told me they know the band, but for some reason they pronounce it as "Dream Titter".

The same with Ramones. We don't pronounce "Ra-mouns", we pronounce it "Ra-mo-nes".

[Outcrier]

I pronounce that way too, even if it's wrong. How it's supposed to be?

[Tony From Long Island]

rather than the relatively unknown (except to us rabid fans) DT.

Pretty sure that DT are at least moderately well known.

In the 25 years I have been a DT fan, I can count on ONE HAND the number of times I have gotten  "Oh yeah, I've heard of them..."  and I'm from the Home of DT! 

[SebastianPratesi]

I pronounce that way too, even if it's wrong. How it's supposed to be?

In the US, Theater is pronounced like "Fi - a - ter". It's not 'F', obviously, but I think you get my point.
In the UK, I believe they pronounce it a little faster, so that's why it may sound like "Fi - tter" - just 2 syllables.

I might be wrong, though. But I've heard English/Scottish people pronounce a few bands' names differently than North American people. So, maybe that's why we South Americans are confused about it.

[Agalsed]

Every song on WDADU other than Ytsejam

Burning my soul
You not me
Just let me breathe

These are the only DT songs I actually hate.

[54_diplomats]

These are probably my least favorite DT songs.

You Not Me
Take Away My Pain
Constant Motion
Repentance
Enigma Machine
Along for the Ride
Beneath the Surface
A Rite of Passage
The Best of Times
Status Seeker (although this ones warming up to me recently so I might replace this)

[Dream Team]

Every song on WDADU other than Ytsejam

Burning my soul
You not me
Just let me breathe

These are the only DT songs I actually hate.

Wow, I didn't realize there was still room on that bandwagon.

[BlobVanDam]

What bandwagon?

[Outcrier]

The WDADU haters one.

I don't even think it's hate, just that the album is poor at best.

[BlobVanDam]

That's not a bandwagon. People dislike it because it's bad, not because it's the cool thing to do.

[Outcrier]

Correct. Now, try getting that into his head.

[Prog Snob]

The WDADU haters one.

I don't even think it's hate, just that the album is poor at best.

I think some people just don't like it. Personally, I think there are some really good songs on there. The vocals are what kill it for me. Charlie's caterwauling is purely cacophonous in some spots. Don't forget. It's all relative. If somebody say it's bad, it doesn't mean it's actually bad. It's completely subjective. Just like someone saying it's good would follow the same reasoning.

[Outcrier]

I think the songwriting is ok but vocals and production brings everything down.

[Prog Snob]

I think the songwriting is ok but vocals and production brings everything down.

I concur. It would have been great if the live recording of the complete album with JLB on vocals had been a better performance by him. However, there are plenty of bootlegs out there with superior performances of the WDADU songs by James.

[bosk1]

Your answers. 

I am always a fan of lyrics that are clever enough to be viewed in several different ways, but it is really stretching it to suggest that The Looking Glass is about Portnoy.

Can't be much of a stretch if it was an instantaneous thought to me immediately upon hearing the song for the first time.  If they are NOT about MP, they are very "clever," as you put it    :-)

Yes, it can be.  People make completely incorrect snap judgments all the time.  That's why snap judgments and knee-jerk reactions are generally disfavored rather than taking the time to actually figure out what you are talking about.  In this case, the lyrics simply do not fit Mike Portnoy.  Yeah, a few lines here and there can be stretched to fit, but plenty of others are so obviously about something other than him that if you had taken the time to actually critically analyze the song as a whole, there is no way you could arrive at the conclusion that it is somehow about Mike Portnoy.  As for whether anyone in DT is "above" writing lyrics about any former member, I can't speculate.  But these particular lyrics simply do not fit.

Putting the discussion back on topic, feel free to dislike the song and put it in your bottom 10 if that is how you feel about it.  But if your reason for doing so is because you believe the lyrics might be about Mike Portnoy, you are mistaken.

[IdoSC]

Look, I sure HOPE Looking Glass isn't about MP.   It would actually be a relief to me if that was the case. I was pretty upset when I heard it thinking that it was beneath someone as classy as John P to write something like that.  I will say that you guys have given me a different perspective on the song and hopefully I can change mine.

Serious questions:

Do you think it was low budget for Mike Portnoy to rip Kevin Moore in Raise the Knife?  Or the fans in Never Enough?  Or his step-father in Honor Thy Father?

I feel that the breakup with MP inspired the lyrics to "This is the Life".   

Without a doubt. 

"Some can get caught in the maze
And lose their way home"

If that isn't a reference to Portnoy getting caught up in playing with so many bands to where he never found his way back to Dream Theater, then I don't know what is.

Sorry guys but I have no idea how in the world either of these songs are speculated to be dealing with Portnoy.

JP has always, and especially in the last few years, been a very preachy guy. This is the Life is a song about a perspective on life gained by coming of age, most of the song deals with the wisdom of the teller as he explains to another (presumably younger or inexperienced listener) that he should not live with uncertainties about his own decisions, cherish his life, etc. Some people are lost in their doubts and miss out on their potential and joy because of it. Cherry picking that single line out of context to make it sound like he's judging MP or whatever you consider it to be seems to be very counterintuitive to the message of the song. If anything, MP lives by the message of this song - he didn't choose to live carefully, he didn't get caught in "the maze", he chose what seemed to be the best opportunity and career advancement for him.

The Looking Glass could have some merit i guess, but again it's not the entire song that sounds like a criticism towards MP but rather maybe a single verse, and the explanation JP gave this song about his own view of people who rise to their 15 minutes of fame through social media and crash down very quickly makes much more sense than any conspiracy theory about a secret message for MP.

[IdoSC]

Do you think he would ADMIT it was about MP?    He has too much class to admit that.   However, the lyrics themselves lead ME to the conclusion I PERSONALLY reached.   They are a cheap shot at MP in my opinion.

If he wanted to have a cheap shot at MP he would make it much more obvious and admit it proudly. What makes you hold JP to a higher standard than MP (Raise the Knife, Never Enough, Burning My Soul, Honor Thy Father) or JP himself (You or Me, for example)?

[Dream Team]

That's not a bandwagon. People dislike Falling Into Infinity because it's bad, not because it's the cool thing to do.

FTFY

Edit: Just checked The Metal Archives, by far the most complete and knowledgeable metal website, and WDADU has a better average reviewer score than about 6 of their other albums. FWIW. So there's a large cross-section of people who do not think it's "bad" at all.

[BlobVanDam]

How in the hell can anyone rate WDADU better than SIX other DT albums?

Looking at their ratings now, it's downright laughable. I can't take any site seriously that puts WDADU ahead of SFAM and SDOIT. There's clearly a large section of people hitting the crack pipe too hard.