Wall Street Protests

[pogoowner]

Friday morning brainwave: what does 'down with the Fed' actually mean? Is it an assault against the notion of a central bank, or is it more like durp we h8 banks so lets bring down the biggest*?

*note I'm not saying the Fed is the biggest bank, I'm a tad more informed than that...

It's an assault on our particular central bank. Many think it causes more problems than it solves, and that it's highly corrupt.

[snapple]

While it should have more regulation than it does (yes, I'm very conservative and want more regulation for the Fed), I think the Fed is needed.

[Riceball]

But that's kind of what I'm trying to say, whats wrong with the Fed? Its a central bank, like all other central banks globally. I don't think, given what they are tasked to do, that the US Fed could have really done anything more than it has done to save the US economy.

Arguably, they kept interest rates too low for too long following the tech-wreck, which fuelled asset price bubbles (which would have probably developed anyway - given the emergence of hyper finance before the wreck), but beyond that they have done their job and done it admirably. At the end of the day, a central bank exists for two main purposes:

- To provide the architecture for banks to lend to/borrow from eachother.
- Keep inflation in check.

The Fed doesn't have a role to play in regulatory oversight, doesn't have a role to play in directly creating jobs, doesn't have a role to play politically. These protestors don't seem to understand that, probably because its never been communicated to them - which is probably as much the fault of the Fed as it is the political class/media.

And lets not forget, a central bank is just one of those things that an economy needs - Zimbabwe has a central bank (a shitty one, but it still has one).

Ignorance really pisses me off.

[orcus116]

If they plan on getting anything done they have to have a clear message about what they want.  So far they've yet to do that.

Well the main problem is there's no central voice coupled with the fact that the longer this goes on the more this is turning into Woodstock for the financially uninformed/irresponsible.

[Super Dude]

Interesting article I came across:

https://www.cnn.com/2011/10/05/opinion/rushkoff-occupy-wall-street/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

I don't feel like copying, pasting, and cutting the quote to fit, so just click the freakin' link.

[pogoowner]

But that's kind of what I'm trying to say, whats wrong with the Fed? Its a central bank, like all other central banks globally. I don't think, given what they are tasked to do, that the US Fed could have really done anything more than it has done to save the US economy.

Arguably, they kept interest rates too low for too long following the tech-wreck, which fuelled asset price bubbles (which would have probably developed anyway - given the emergence of hyper finance before the wreck), but beyond that they have done their job and done it admirably. At the end of the day, a central bank exists for two main purposes:

- To provide the architecture for banks to lend to/borrow from eachother.
- Keep inflation in check.

The Fed doesn't have a role to play in regulatory oversight, doesn't have a role to play in directly creating jobs, doesn't have a role to play politically. These protestors don't seem to understand that, probably because its never been communicated to them - which is probably as much the fault of the Fed as it is the political class/media.

And lets not forget, a central bank is just one of those things that an economy needs - Zimbabwe has a central bank (a shitty one, but it still has one).

Ignorance really pisses me off.

Well, I'm sure you're familiar with the Austrian School's objections to the Federal Reserve, whether you agree with them or not (you clearly don't).

[Riceball]

I actually didn't know anyone objected to the notion of a central bank lol. What don't they like about it?

From my perspective, its a cornerstone of any economy.

[bosk1]

Sorry for the temporary thread diversion, folks.

Note: I am not a Republican. I am not religious and I love abortion (especially when the poor get them).

I was not part of the discussion when that was posted and Tempus dealt with the subsequent banning of PC, so I stayed out of it.  But PraXis, after going back and taking a look and thinking long and hard about this, posts like that need to be dealt with.  Whether you are joking or serious, I don't know.  At best, the post was in poor taste.  At worst, you are advocating exterminating the poor.  I suspect the intent lies somewhere in the middle.  Exactly where, I don't know or really care.  And while in and of itself, it may be a very borderline post, and while I have also defended your (and others') right to post unorthodox and/or unpopular views, if you know or should know that the only real value your post has is to shock or anger someone to the point where they want to fight with you and get themselves banned, that's classic baiting.  Your borderline posts that bait others into reacting need to stop.  I hope I make myself clear on that.  This is your warning.  Hopefully, you are smart enough that there will be no need for another.

[pogoowner]

I actually didn't know anyone objected to the notion of a central bank lol. What don't they like about it?

From my perspective, its a cornerstone of any economy.

Just to name a couple things, the Fed's actions unfairly redistribute wealth, lead to malinvestment, and create bubbles. The Austrians believe that the Fed's actions had a very large role in our current economic troubles (most also believe that the Fed delayed/worsened economic recovery during the Great Depression, as opposed to Bernanke's view that the Fed didn't do enough).

I'm trying to find a concise article/essay that summarizes their objections for you. I'm sure William Wallace can help me out here, if he happens to read this.

[Super Dude]

You've piqued my interest.  If you can, do you know of three strong arguments for and against either reducing the power of the Fed or abolishing it entirely?

[bosk1]

Oooooooooooo!  Pick me!  Pick me!  PICK ME!!!!  *waves hands frantically*

[Super Dude]

Um...bosk?

[Riceball]

I'll take the against reducing the power of the Fed; I'll need a little bit of time for research though.

And I think we're being trolled

[bosk1]

Um...bosk?

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, answer:  It smells funny.

[MasterShakezula]

How correct or incorrect is the video explaining the FR and how it's apparently the prime source of bad things?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU

[MetalMike06]

Eh, that video seems to be more of a conspiratorial view of things (at least later on in the video); I think people here are seeking more practical/policy-centric arguments as to why the Fed is or isn't beneficial for the economy.

I can just easily see that video being used to smear all anti-Fed people as conspiracy cooks.

[Riceball]

Eh, that video seems to be more of a conspiratorial view of things (at least later on in the video); I think people here are seeking more practical/policy-centric arguments as to why the Fed is or isn't beneficial for the economy.

I can just easily see that video being used to smear all anti-Fed people as conspiracy cooks.

I scanned through it quickly. This seems fitting.

[ReaPsTA]

Ugh.  This girl I know who moved to Seattle went to a 99% protest there.  She posted a status talking about how they were gathered together to advocate a higher state of consciousness or whatever, then the police came and broke them up.  Because I was curious, I clicked the video.  I made it through about three seconds of the protestors incoherently and annoyingly yelling while the police officers stood there before I turned it off.  Look, I don't like everything cops do.  I think our political and financial systems are becoming more and more screwed up more and more quickly.  But these protests aren't the answer.

[Super Dude]

Y'know, I'm finding this situation oddly familiar: here we have an executive leader who can't control a deadlocked and bickering Senate, yet who is conferred by said Senate increasing emergency powers to deal with the crisis at hand...hmm...

I can't put my finger on it, what about you guys?

[Cool Chris]

The police didn't break up the protests in Seattle, they just didn't want them to camp there indefinitely. So they pulled up their tents, but are still out there.

Ironically, they seem more like protesters now; holding signs, trying to get passers-by involved. But in a polite, unobtrusive way. I walk by them every day and they don't bother me at all.

[zepp-head]

Y'know, I'm finding this situation oddly familiar: here we have an executive leader who can't control a deadlocked and bickering Senate, yet who is conferred by said Senate increasing emergency powers to deal with the crisis at hand...hmm...

This is the only answer.

[Riceball]

Awwwwww yeah Death Star time.

[Super Dude]

Let President Reagan lead the way.

[MasterShakezula]

Is that a satire of neoconservatism?

[Super Dude]

You've never heard of his "Star Wars" project?

[MasterShakezula]

Yes, I have. 

I missed the reference, though, as I know him more as as a former Republican president that some people view as a deity or something.

[Riceball]

Friggin' sharks, with friggin' laser beams.

[El Barto]

Out of curiosity,  if these same silly people were protesting in front of the Capital building, or the Whitehouse,  bemoaning the unbelievably fucked up state that this country is in,  would they still be catching all the flack that they are now?  It appears to me that their biggest problem is that by picking Wall St.,  they're suggesting a higher purpose than the generalized discontent that they're trying to express, and quite frankly,  that every person should be expressing.

[Rathma]

sup

[juice]

Out of curiosity,  if these same silly people were protesting in front of the Capital building, or the Whitehouse,  bemoaning the unbelievably fucked up state that this country is in,  would they still be catching all the flack that they are now?  It appears to me that their biggest problem is that by picking Wall St.,  they're suggesting a higher purpose than the generalized discontent that they're trying to express, and quite frankly,  that every person should be expressing.

Maybe, I doubt it, but still this.

If they plan on getting anything done they have to have a clear message about what they want.  So far they've yet to do that.

Until they have that clear message they're just loitering.

[orcus116]

sup

I've seen this a few times and I still don't get what it's trying to prove. Does it imply that the NYPD is being rough on protesters because they've been "bought out by banks" or something?

[Super Dude]

I think the point is actually that statement backwards: JP Morgan is trying to cover their own ass and so they're buying out police.  I know my rephrasal probably doesn't make much difference but I hope you understand what I'm getting at.

[7StringedBeast]

People insinuating that Chase bank is the mob now.  Haha fucking A.  When will it end?  If you didn't know there are 100s of chase banks in Manhattan.  So them donating to the NYPD to help keep the city safe is in their interest.  It's also giving back to the community here in NY where they do a lot of business. 

Oh right, but everything is a god damn conspiracy when money is involved 

[JasonScandopolous]

People insinuating that Chase bank is the mob now.  Haha fucking A.  When will it end?  If you didn't know there are 100s of chase banks in Manhattan.  So them donating to the NYPD to help keep the city safe is in their interest.  It's also giving back to the community here in NY where they do a lot of business. 

Oh right, but everything is a god damn conspiracy when money is involved 

Some people should back to smoking weed and producing nothing for society like they usually do; they'd enjoy yourself more than getting worked up over things they have no chance at understanding (not you 7string, but the people you directed your post towards).  Or maybe they should wait until they're older than 16.  Or until you spend thousands of hours working in or studying the banking industry (or any corporate sector) before reading leftist websites and becoming an anarchist on the fly.

Things are more dirty than the official story in politics or on wall street, but a lot people are way too far from occam's razor and into laughable conspiracy theory.

[antigoon]

What are you on about?