Wall Street Protests

[Sigz]

Oh, so as long as you get 90% of your college tuition paid for you and work 30 hours along with 20-40+ hours a week in university you'll be able to scrape along.

Great system we have going here.

[antigoon]

Stop being so lazy.

[Scheavo]

lol at "hard working"

Stop being so lazy.

Please tell me both of you are joking.

[Perpetual Change]

They're joking.

I agree with them. But orcus is right about one thing. Redditors need to stop pretending they work hard 

[Super Dude]

Wait, where did the Redditors bit come from? I found that response on Facebook.

[antigoon]

Yes. A joke. Anyway, what happened in Oakland is deplorable. Hopefully it gets more people out there. 

[Chino]

[antigoon]

lol.

[orcus116]

lol at "hard working"

Stop being so lazy.

Please tell me both of you are joking.

Kindly inform me as to what this has all accomplished. Media exposure? Ok, but aside from soapboxing I've seen zero momentum. It really has just turned into a political Woodstock.

[Perpetual Change]

I for one am happy to hear some actually progressive ideas come back into the discourse. We have the person who has potential to be our most progressive president in office ever so far, and yet he's acting like a neo-con.

[Rathma]

happy wealthy

But yea, I would not be happy if Obama got reelected. He's been indoctrinated or something. I wouldn't mind a candidate from the Democratic side who has a Ron Paul type attitude.

[antigoon]

Didn't we try that with Kucinich?

[Rathma]

He's kind of short and lacks charisma.

[Perpetual Change]

Ron Paul has charisma?

He's comes across like an off-the-wall academic. Maybe 4 years ago he had a little bit. But these days, he's got nothing.

[Chino]

lol at "hard working"

Stop being so lazy.

Please tell me both of you are joking.

Kindly inform me as to what this has all accomplished. Media exposure? Ok, but aside from soapboxing I've seen zero momentum. It really has just turned into a political Woodstock.

It has made many Americans aware of corruption within the system instead of falling victim to the learned ignorance that this government has educated us with.

[Ben_Jamin]

what got me was when they wouldn't let that civil rights protester speak. Which i found to be a dumb move.                                      This whole thing doesnt make sense.

[Rathma]

Ron Paul has charisma?

He's comes across like an off-the-wall academic. Maybe 4 years ago he had a little bit. But these days, he's got nothing.

RP isn't really that charismatic either but he has a thing of making his positions sound more legitimate by drawing from the founding fathers, older traditions and whatnot.

[William Wallace]

Peter Schiff teaches some protesters economics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UGL-Ex1CD1c#!

[antigoon]

Schiff describes himself as "sympathetic" to the plight of the OWS protesters, but thinks their anger is misdirected at legitimate business interests and should be better at the White House, Congress, the Federal Reserve, and the crony capitalists they've bailed out.

I'm pretty sure that's where the anger is directed.

[zxlkho]

Is this movement still actually going? Like how many people are still in NYC every day for this? It's been quite a while since it started...

[Rathma]

"Socialism is wrong... If the government minded its own business, then nobody can get a student loan... If it wasn't for the government, college would be cheap."

Not very convincing Mr. Schiff... nowhere are universities more affordable than in socialist countries.

[William Wallace]

"Socialism is wrong... If the government minded its own business, then nobody can get a student loan... If it wasn't for the government, college would be cheap."

Not very convincing Mr. Schiff... nowhere are universities more affordable than in socialist countries.

No, he's correct. School in this country is prohibitively expensive because almost anybody can get guaranteed students loans and go to college. That increases demand, which, as I'm sure you know, also increases tuition prices. 

[Scheavo]

"Socialism is wrong... If the government minded its own business, then nobody can get a student loan... If it wasn't for the government, college would be cheap."

Not very convincing Mr. Schiff... nowhere are universities more affordable than in socialist countries.

No, he's correct. School in this country is prohibitively expensive because almost anybody can get guaranteed students loans and go to college. That increases demand, which, as I'm sure you know, also increases tuition prices.

Because our schools are allowed to basically be private, for-profit industries. Look at other countries, where that isn't  the case, and you see the difference. I think you make a good case that simply giving students more loans in our environment causes the problem, so instead of giving out loans to students to go to college, we should just publicly finance the education completely. Require stricter entrance requirements, require smaller athletic departments, and put a cap on executives, administrators, and their salaries.

The problem with American politics is we privatized public functions, which are more expensive. Whenever the government "privatizes" something, it's just a guise for corruption, and it costs us, the taxpayers, more money. Don't be fooled by the "the market does it cheaper" becuase, as you say, the government is not a market. Seeing as how we have the government in area's we don't want the market corrupting the process, it's just self-defeating, stupid, and harmful. The government does it's own job cheaper than private contractors, there's actually a CBO about it. 

lol at "hard working"

Stop being so lazy.

Please tell me both of you are joking.

Kindly inform me as to what this has all accomplished. Media exposure? Ok, but aside from soapboxing I've seen zero momentum. It really has just turned into a political Woodstock.

I guess I'm confused between you attacking the movement, or you saying something about what the movement stands for. Cause if your calling poor people lazy, then I have huge problems. If you're calling some of these protestors lazy, I'm sure some of them are.

As for what it's accomplished, don't think for a second that all this media coverage isn't changing the political scene in America. Look up the Bonus Army Hooverville incident.

[Rathma]

"Socialism is wrong... If the government minded its own business, then nobody can get a student loan... If it wasn't for the government, college would be cheap."

Not very convincing Mr. Schiff... nowhere are universities more affordable than in socialist countries.

No, he's correct. School in this country is prohibitively expensive because almost anybody can get guaranteed students loans and go to college. That increases demand, which, as I'm sure you know, also increases tuition prices. 

Tuitions would drop somewhat if loans became harder to get but it also would disrupt equal opportunity for education, and the number of people who actually attend college would fall. The socialist countries aren't the one's that are having problems with student loans.

[William Wallace]

"Socialism is wrong... If the government minded its own business, then nobody can get a student loan... If it wasn't for the government, college would be cheap."

Not very convincing Mr. Schiff... nowhere are universities more affordable than in socialist countries.

No, he's correct. School in this country is prohibitively expensive because almost anybody can get guaranteed students loans and go to college. That increases demand, which, as I'm sure you know, also increases tuition prices. 

Tuitions would drop somewhat if loans became harder to get but it also would disrupt equal opportunity for education, and the number of people who actually attend college would fall. The socialist countries aren't the one's that are having problems with student loans.

You're right about that, for the reasons scheavo brought up. We have a sort of public-private education system in America, and it has created all kinds of odd incentives for everybody involved and that needs to be fixed.

Now I don't intend to sound mean, but a degree is not a right, and the fact that we have artificially lowered the cost of an education doesn't mean it has to stay there if we're going to fix the problem. If we would simply make people responsible for the loans they take out for school (no guaranteed loans), there would be a positive shift in everybody's behavior. The schools wouldn't be enriched no matter the student's outcome, people would finance their educations more responsibly and there would be  that much less of a burden on the public. 

[orcus116]

It has made many Americans aware of corruption within the system instead of falling victim to the learned ignorance that this government has educated us with.

I'm pretty sure that was common knowledge akin to how people think reminding smokers that smoking is bad in this day and age is suddenly going to make them go "Wait, what?!".

I guess I'm confused between you attacking the movement, or you saying something about what the movement stands for. Cause if your calling poor people lazy, then I have huge problems. If you're calling some of these protestors lazy, I'm sure some of them are.

As for what it's accomplished, don't think for a second that all this media coverage isn't changing the political scene in America. Look up the Bonus Army Hooverville incident.

I think you're being a little overzealous in thinking the political scene has changed all that much. Something might've happened already but I can't think of one major development or transition in progress that has stemmed out of all of this. "Awareness" just doesn't cut the mustard when it comes time to get things done because like I answered Chino above it's not like OWS exposed some huge secret or anything. The only thing it goes to prove is that when all those people who actually talk the talk decide to walk the walk they discover that even in a large group they have zero power.

[Super Dude]

To be realistic, we will not know the actual results/consequences of these protests until we look back at it years later.

[Scheavo]

It has made many Americans aware of corruption within the system instead of falling victim to the learned ignorance that this government has educated us with.

I'm pretty sure that was common knowledge akin to how people think reminding smokers that smoking is bad in this day and age is suddenly going to make them go "Wait, what?!".

I guess I'm confused between you attacking the movement, or you saying something about what the movement stands for. Cause if your calling poor people lazy, then I have huge problems. If you're calling some of these protestors lazy, I'm sure some of them are.

As for what it's accomplished, don't think for a second that all this media coverage isn't changing the political scene in America. Look up the Bonus Army Hooverville incident.

I think you're being a little overzealous in thinking the political scene has changed all that much. Something might've happened already but I can't think of one major development or transition in progress that has stemmed out of all of this. "Awareness" just doesn't cut the mustard when it comes time to get things done because like I answered Chino above it's not like OWS exposed some huge secret or anything. The only thing it goes to prove is that when all those people who actually talk the talk decide to walk the walk they discover that even in a large group they have zero power.

By that logic, no one, ever, should protest. In order for people to protest, the information has to be common knowledge. What changes is how people react to the knowledge they have, what they think should be done about it, if they think anything can be done about it.

It's like saying the protests in Egypt didn't accomplish anything cause they didn't expose anything, bring any new information, etc.

[orcus116]

They also had way bigger numbers and, in some respects, the balls to actually go through with it. They violently overthrew a government with excessive force. We've just got a bunch of people in sleeping bags holding up signs and decrying businesses that couldn't care less. How would I go about? I honestly haven't thought about it but I until someone in power decides to make some radical changes I can't really chalk this up as anything more than a fascinating display of helplessness.

[MasterShakezula]

Though I do not necessarily agree 100% with the protestors' approach to this, I'd imagine that if, say, a movement akin to that in Egypt or Lybia took place, neither you, nor I would want to be around for the results of that. 

[Rathma]

Kindly inform me as to what this has all accomplished.

It hasn't accomplished anything major yet. What would you expect? It's a deeply corrupt system that they're protesting against. It's not like you can make a few changes here and there and everything is all better.

[Scheavo]

They also had way bigger numbers and, in some respects, the balls to actually go through with it. They violently overthrew a government with excessive force. We've just got a bunch of people in sleeping bags holding up signs and decrying businesses that couldn't care less. How would I go about? I honestly haven't thought about it but I until someone in power decides to make some radical changes I can't really chalk this up as anything more than a fascinating display of helplessness.

Well, I can imagine you don't want people to overthrow the government... violently... but this kind of statement, especially enduring, changes how people look at an event, and thus how they could vote. If voting doesn't work, it's a sign that enough people are fed up with the way thing are going, that maybe something actually a kin to Egypt would happen. I'd say the bigger difference between Egypt and the United States is our government; imagine if the government tried to completely stamp out these protests, and what kind of effect that would have on people.

[MasterShakezula]

I'm guessing that the U.S. gov would be quick to make use of large displays of force, should something like Egypt happen, hence why I doubt anything like that would happen. 

[Scheavo]

I'm guessing that the U.S. gov would be quick to make use of large displays of force, should something like Egypt happen, hence why I doubt anything like that would happen.

I think that, in part for there to be such a large amount of people protesting, you have to have a display of force.

[Super Dude]

They also had way bigger numbers and, in some respects, the balls to actually go through with it. They violently overthrew a government with excessive force. We've just got a bunch of people in sleeping bags holding up signs and decrying businesses that couldn't care less. How would I go about? I honestly haven't thought about it but I until someone in power decides to make some radical changes I can't really chalk this up as anything more than a fascinating display of helplessness.

So the only effective form of popular protest is violent?