Red - Feed The Machine vs. DT - BMU, BMD

[Madman Shepherd]

I don't blame the guy for being upset about the DT situation at all. It's justified. But his actions in response to it are totally not. Don't they say the best "revenge" is to live well? He's got a ton of new music coming out. Let that speak for itself, instead of continuing to burn bridges to the point where they look like the aftermath of the ADTOE cover.

You would think he would be content traveling all over the country as the personal guest of many bands, getting backstage for one of the biggest Metallica concerts of all time, and being featured on cable television constantly...but he's not.  You kind of have to feel sorry for him.  But I guess we shouldn't because he is as happy as can be and never forgets to tell us that...he's happy!!!  Right?!  He just always wants to remind people that he's happy!

Funniest thing on his forum was when he said there is a big differences between a nugget or a nod to a style and a blatant rip off and someone responded "That difference being whether you are currently in the band or not?"  Sums it up perfectly...

The other hilarious response was, "Does this mean Red ripped off Take the Time?"  The situation is absurd and mike is just digging deeper and deeper

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

You would think he would be content traveling all over the country as the personal guest of many bands, getting backstage for one of the biggest Metallica concerts of all time, and being featured on cable television constantly...but he's not.  You kind of have to feel sorry for him.  But I guess we shouldn't because he is as happy as can be and never forgets to tell us that...he's happy!!!  Right?!  He just always wants to remind people that he's happy!

Those kind of things pale in comparison to the exposure he had while being DT's drummer/leader. Most MP fans are Dream Theater fans, and not all Dream Theater fans are Mike Portnoy fans. Portnoy, for the first time in his career, is out there on his own and making his way out of it. He may have minor success with Mob and/or Flying Colors, but he'll never be as high as we was with Dream Theater.

[02T]

You would think he would be content traveling all over the country as the personal guest of many bands, getting backstage for one of the biggest Metallica concerts of all time, and being featured on cable television constantly...but he's not.  You kind of have to feel sorry for him.  But I guess we shouldn't because he is as happy as can be and never forgets to tell us that...he's happy!!!  Right?!  He just always wants to remind people that he's happy!

Those kind of things pale in comparison to the exposure he had while being DT's drummer/leader. Most MP fans are Dream Theater fans, and not all Dream Theater fans are Mike Portnoy fans. Portnoy, for the first time in his career, is out there on his own and making his way out of it. He may have minor success with Mob and/or Flying Colors, but he'll never be as high as we was with Dream Theater.

I don't know.  I could see Adrenaline Mob being huge.  Russell Allen is the best singer in the world who isn't Bruce Dickinson.  And Mike Orlando is a total rock star, apart from being an awesome, ballsy player.  The whole band totally delivers the goods live.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

lol no


Mike Orlando is a generic metal player who likes playing fast.
Russell Allen is a great singer, but the songs he sings in aren't interesting at all.
Mike Portnoy.
The other guys, I don't know about them.

A big chunk of the Adrenaline Mob fans are Mike Portnoy fans; so I really can't see the band having a genuine fanbase although their album is actually good (which I doubt, considering the bad EP they are giving right now for free).

[johncal]

From On the Backs of Angels

Riding out the wave
Content to FEED off THE MACHINE
Bleeding us to death
The new American dream

NUGGETT?

[FlyingBIZKIT]

 

[theseoafs]

From Build Me Up, Break Me Down

Tonight I am the new messiah
You deify
When I'm no longer desiRED
I'll be crucified

NUGGET?

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

That's an intentional nugget for the fans.


Believe Me...

[KevShmev]

Those kind of things pale in comparison to the exposure he had while being DT's drummer/leader. Most MP fans are Dream Theater fans, and not all Dream Theater fans are Mike Portnoy fans. Portnoy, for the first time in his career, is out there on his own and making his way out of it. He may have minor success with Mob and/or Flying Colors, but he'll never be as high as we was with Dream Theater.

Yep.  After years of building up their fanbase and playing to bigger crowds at time went on, and then playing in front of even bigger crowds on a regular basis with A7X, it had to be awfully humbling for him (if he is capable at this point of being humble) to suddenly being playing in front of 100+ a people a night with his new band.  I agree that DT was as good as he ever had it, and will never get it again with a regular touring band.  Sure, he has a lot of friends in the industry (supposedly), and can probably do a show here and a show there, kind of a side project kind of thing, but as far as a full-time band goes, his dominant personality is simply too much for an existing band to take on, and any new band would likely take the same time of trajectory that DT did as far as a time standpoint in gaining popularity and momentum.  DT was it for him, and he threw it away.  And he has no one to blame but himself. 

  I could see Adrenaline Mob being huge. 

I give them 0% chance of being huge.  Their sound is extremely generic (and lack hooks, which you need when your sound is that generic), and most of the original songs they have done thus far are extremely bland and forgettable (to put it nicely).  Considering most bands write their best songs early on in their career, starting off so badly is not a good sign at all.

[Vivace]

MPs comment on his site really distressed me and in a lot of ways frustrated me and Bosk rather poignantly (and I agree with 100%) pointed out the hypocrisy of the whole thing. I really don't know what is going through Mike's head right now, but I hope he finds a way out of it. He has openly accused Dream Theater of plagiarism which pretty much tears down whatever bridges he was trying to build. Is he purposely hijacking this or is there something else going on in the background? In any event, if he doesn't pull himself together soon he might find himself without any of the friends he made along the way. No one deserves to sink that low. 

[Bertielee]

MPs comment on his site really distressed me and in a lot of ways frustrated me and Bosk rather poignantly (and I agree with 100%) pointed out the hypocrisy of the whole thing. I really don't know what is going through Mike's head right now, but I hope he finds a way out of it. He has openly accused Dream Theater of plagiarism which pretty much tears down whatever bridges he was trying to build. Is he purposely hijacking this or is there something else going on in the background? In any event, if he doesn't pull himself together soon he might find himself without any of the friends he made along the way. No one deserves to sink that low.

As I wrote before, it might have something to do with the negociations between DT's camp and his not turning to his advantage. Plus the grammy nomination...I don't know but maybe he's trying to attract them on his territory -aggressive gossip- and seeing the guys remain silent may frustrate and enfuriate him.

B.Lee

[lithium112]

I don't know.  I could see Adrenaline Mob being huge.  Russell Allen is the best singer in the world who isn't Bruce Dickinson.  And Mike Orlando is a total rock star, apart from being an awesome, ballsy player.  The whole band totally delivers the goods live.

I dunno, they have so many awesome people but somehow the whole is less than the sum of its parts right now. I LOVE Russell Allen and MP but as with everyone else, the songs just haven't really grabbed me so far.

[Mebert78]

Kinda bored today and I decided to check out some Adrenaline Mob on YouTube.  I stumbled upon a video in which someone compares an Adrenaline Mob riff to Dream Theater's "Lie."  It's vaguely similar, in my opinion, to the same degree that DT's "BMU BMD" riff is similar to Red's "Feed the Machine."  Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nKPqX2HWbc.  Just throwing this out there because I thought it fits theme of this thread.

My take on JP's riff is that artists are always influenced by other artists and try to take a theme and make it their own, or make it better.  I mean, how many movies have you seen that have a similar plot or theme?  I can name at least half a dozen movies that are about body swapping: "Freaky Friday," "13 Going on 30," "The Change Up."  Art influences art.   It always has, it always will.

Anyway, I really hope MP makes a New Years resolution to stop his DT bickering.

[theseoafs]

Kinda bored today and I decided to check out some Adrenaline Mob on YouTube.  I stumbled upon a video in which someone compares an Adrenaline Mob riff to Dream Theater's "Lie."  It's vaguely similar, in my opinion, to the same degree that DT's "BMU BMD" riff is similar to Red's "Feed the Machine."  Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nKPqX2HWbc.  Just throwing this out there because I thought it fits theme of this thread.

[ehra]

From On the Backs of Angels

Riding out the wave
Content to FEED off THE MACHINE
Bleeding us to death
The new American dream

NUGGETT?

From Build Me Up, Break Me Down

Tonight I am the new messiah
You deify
When I'm no longer desiRED
I'll be crucified

NUGGET?

I wanna talk about lifelong mistakes
and you can tell your stepfather I said so



PREEMPTIVE NUGGIT!?

[antigoon]

Kinda bored today and I decided to check out some Adrenaline Mob on YouTube.  I stumbled upon a video in which someone compares an Adrenaline Mob riff to Dream Theater's "Lie."  It's vaguely similar, in my opinion, to the same degree that DT's "BMU BMD" riff is similar to Red's "Feed the Machine."  Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nKPqX2HWbc.  Just throwing this out there because I thought it fits theme of this thread.

My take on JP's riff is that artists are always influenced by other artists and try to take a theme and make it their own, or make it better.  I mean, how many movies have you seen that have a similar plot or theme?  I can name at least half a dozen movies that are about body swapping: "Freaky Friday," "13 Going on 30," "The Change Up."  Art influences art.   It always has, it always will.

I really hope MP makes a New Years resolution to stop his DT bickering.  It would also be nice if he congratulated DT on their Grammy nomination. 

forget the similarities to lie, WHY DOES THE GUITAR SOUND LIKE THAT

[Madman Shepherd]

Kinda bored today and I decided to check out some Adrenaline Mob on YouTube.  I stumbled upon a video in which someone compares an Adrenaline Mob riff to Dream Theater's "Lie."  It's vaguely similar, in my opinion, to the same degree that DT's "BMU BMD" riff is similar to Red's "Feed the Machine."  Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nKPqX2HWbc.  Just throwing this out there because I thought it fits theme of this thread.

My take on JP's riff is that artists are always influenced by other artists and try to take a theme and make it their own, or make it better.  I mean, how many movies have you seen that have a similar plot or theme?  I can name at least half a dozen movies that are about body swapping: "Freaky Friday," "13 Going on 30," "The Change Up."  Art influences art.   It always has, it always will.

I really hope MP makes a New Years resolution to stop his DT bickering.  It would also be nice if he congratulated DT on their Grammy nomination.

Dude...thats a nugget.  thats all it is...nugget...nothing more.   Psh, cause MP was involved...therefore any and all negativity can be chalked up to nuggets.

[snapple]

[tjanuranus]

Kinda bored today and I decided to check out some Adrenaline Mob on YouTube.  I stumbled upon a video in which someone compares an Adrenaline Mob riff to Dream Theater's "Lie."  It's vaguely similar, in my opinion, to the same degree that DT's "BMU BMD" riff is similar to Red's "Feed the Machine."  Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nKPqX2HWbc.  Just throwing this out there because I thought it fits theme of this thread.

My take on JP's riff is that artists are always influenced by other artists and try to take a theme and make it their own, or make it better.  I mean, how many movies have you seen that have a similar plot or theme?  I can name at least half a dozen movies that are about body swapping: "Freaky Friday," "13 Going on 30," "The Change Up."  Art influences art.   It always has, it always will.

I really hope MP makes a New Years resolution to stop his DT bickering.  It would also be nice if he congratulated DT on their Grammy nomination. 

forget the similarities to lie, WHY DOES THE GUITAR SOUND LIKE THAT

because Mike Orlando is a hack guitar player who obviously has no sense of tone or style?

[fibreoptix]

From Mike's twitter:

"Have you taked to any DT members recently?"
I EMAILED THEM ALL TO CONGRATULATE ABOUT GRAMMY NOM...3 RESPONDED, 2 DIDN'T

[tjanuranus]

Screen Shot 2011-12-17 at 5.50.17 PM by tjanuranus, on Flickr

[TheKillingHand]

From Mike's twitter:

"Have you taked to any DT members recently?"
I EMAILED THEM ALL TO CONGRATULATE ABOUT GRAMMY NOM...3 RESPONDED, 2 DIDN'T

Haha, I bet JM and JLB are the 2 that didn't

[Mladen]

They're gonna respond. 

[chrisbDTM]

he always find a way to throw something in so he's a victim in some way. they cant even respond to me wahhhhhhhh.
they also arent on forums taking shots at him or AM, but if they did you know MP would go crazy. they are staying quiet. the way they should

[Mebert78]

Screen Shot 2011-12-17 at 5.50.17 PM by tjanuranus, on Flickr

Wow, I give you props for asking that.  I see he finished the Twitter Q&A and didn't respond to that particular question.  To be honest, if he is going to point the finger at DT over "BMU BMD," he should then expect his music to be put under the microscope as well.  He gets a taste of his own medicine.  I'll be interested in seeing if he responds to the "Lie/Psychosane" riff similarity or follows JP's lead and just lets it die down.

Also, very nice to see he quietly congratulated DT about the Grammy nomination via emails to the band!

[tjanuranus]

Yeah he is the one throwing the plagiarize word around so it's only fair he gets it back in his face. You know he read it too because he was reading people's questions.

[skydivingninja]

Saw this:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/did_dream_theater_steal_from_christian_rock_band.html

I mean, honestly, I don't think the riffs sound similar enough.  The intros sound a bit similar, but leading into a song with a 1-2-3-4 snare seems pretty common, and having vocals "interrupted" by bursts of metal in the verses seems like a common trend as well.  Both songs are good in their own way, but I don't think a plagiarism call is in order.  And, as usual, it seems that MP is stoking the flames of the DT vs. MP "debate" that must exist or else the lives of all DT fans will be boring.

EDIT: also, the album came out in february.  ADTOE was recorded from January till March, so plagiarism isn't inconceivable.  But I have a feeling that most of the songs were written before that album came out, or at least existed in a basic structure before they were polished.  I think it was JR that said they all came in with demos or riff libraries and stuff...

[antigoon]

I, for one, look forward to it

[theseoafs]

EDIT: also, the album came out in february.  ADTOE was recorded from January till March, so plagiarism isn't inconceivable.  But I have a feeling that most of the songs were written before that album came out, or at least existed in a basic structure before they were polished.  I think it was JR that said they all came in with demos or riff libraries and stuff...

Now that I think of it, I think I remember reading in one of the pre-release album previews that BMUBMD was written a bit later in the album's development as a sort of counterpoint to all the intense prog they had at that point. I'll try to find the article I'm referring to, but I'm almost certain that's the case.

EDIT: Easier than I thought it would be to find. https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/dream-theaters-a-dramatic-turn-of-events-full-album-preview-488940/3

BMUBMD was written "pretty far into the album" -- that doesn't bode well for accusations of plagiarism, unfortunately.

[skydivingninja]

No it doesn't, but I'm listening to the song again and, like I said before, the structure of the verses (main riff, words, METAL, words, METAL, words, METAL, prechorus) is really the only thing similar between the two songs, I think.

[Mebert78]

BMUBMD was written "pretty far into the album" -- that doesn't bode well for accusations of plagiarism, unfortunately.

Eh, JP was likely inspired by Red.  The timeline adds up and he ranked the album #1 this year.  But it's just a similar riff.  Like I said earlier, art influences art influences art.  Artists, whether musicians or filmakers or painters, all have influences and they are constantly bringing bits of those influences into their own art.  If anything, I think people are surprised that JP has so much inspiration from a Christian rock band that's less popular than DT, instead of being influenced by a band that ranks above DT in terms of popularity.

If you ask me, the riff similarlity between Adrenaline Mob's "Psychosane" and "Lie" is on the same level as the riff similarity between "BMU BMD" and "Feed the Machine."  Maybe Mike Orlando takes inspiration from Petrucci?

[BlobVanDam]

BMUBMD was written "pretty far into the album" -- that doesn't bode well for accusations of plagiarism, unfortunately.

It does when they're musically nothing alike. Plagiarism is quite a huge accusation, and much more than mere inspiration. The fact is, if you took this kind of "plagiarism" to court, it would go nowhere, because musicality there is zero basis for any claim here.
At best it is a similar structure (and how many shorter songs use similar structures? The answer is a buttload), and maybe a similar vibe. And last time I checked, you can't copyright vibes.

[ResultsMayVary]

BMUBMD was written "pretty far into the album" -- that doesn't bode well for accusations of plagiarism, unfortunately.

Eh, JP was likely inspired by Red.  The timeline adds up and he ranked the album #1 this year.  But it's just a similar riff.  Like I said earlier, art influences art influences art.  Artists, whether musicians or filmakers or painters, all have influences and they are constantly bringing bits of those influences into their own art.  If anything, I think people are surprised that JP has so much inspiration from a Christian rock band that's less popular than DT, instead of being influenced by a band that ranks above DT in terms of popularity.

If you ask me, the riff similarlity between Adrenaline Mob's "Psychosane" and "Lie" is on the same level as the riff similarity"BMU BMD" and "Feed the Machine."  Maybe Mike Orlando takes inspiration from Petrucci?

Such a good point which everyone overlooks.

[7StringedBeast]

BMUBMD was written "pretty far into the album" -- that doesn't bode well for accusations of plagiarism, unfortunately.

Eh, JP was likely inspired by Red.  The timeline adds up and he ranked the album #1 this year.  But it's just a similar riff.  Like I said earlier, art influences art influences art.  Artists, whether musicians or filmakers or painters, all have influences and they are constantly bringing bits of those influences into their own art.  If anything, I think people are surprised that JP has so much inspiration from a Christian rock band that's less popular than DT, instead of being influenced by a band that ranks above DT in terms of popularity.

If you ask me, the riff similarlity between Adrenaline Mob's "Psychosane" and "Lie" is on the same level as the riff similarity"BMU BMD" and "Feed the Machine."  Maybe Mike Orlando takes inspiration from Petrucci?

Such a good point which everyone overlooks.

Oh wow, that is really really similar to lie.  That's funny.

[MykeHavoc]

Who cares? Neither sets of songs are ripping each other off. Obviously JP was influenced. So what?
And the A-Mob tune sounds little to nothing like Lie. Bad comparison.