I figured out exactly what it is that makes Awake one of my least favorites...

[Pols Voice]

The keys on Awake are spot on. That album has such a great sound to it. Everything really meshes well.

[SjundeInseglet]

The keys on Awake are spot on. That album has such a great sound to it. Everything really meshes well.

This so very much! "Awake" was the first DT record I bought back in 1996. It instantly blew me away (I liked it even better than "Images and Words", which was my introduction to the band... and everything clicked on first listen) and to this day it remains my favorite DT record. I never got some of the criticism it gets, mainly the criticism that's directed to the songs being all over the place and having abrupt changes within them. Well, (to me, at least) that's pretty standard fare for DT and I never had a problem with it (on any record they did... though there's some DT offerings I'm not so fond of, namely "Octavarium", "Systematic Chaos" and "Black Clouds and Silver Linings"). Plus, the songwriting is top notch (there isn't a single wasted riff or arrangement here, in my book) and the record features some of their most interesting, soul-searching lyrics ("Scarred" in particular is pretty impressive, lyric-wise... arguably one of JP's very best lyrical contributions, rivaled only by "Lines in the Sand") the band ever did. And I like the keyboard tones... the distorted one in "Caught in the Web" (one of the band's most underrated- though I actually hate the expression- songs) is particularly wicked.

[Pols Voice]

The keys on Awake are spot on. That album has such a great sound to it. Everything really meshes well.

This so very much! "Awake" was the first DT record I bought back in 1996. It instantly blew me away (I liked it even better than "Images and Words", which was my introduction to the band... and everything clicked on first listen) and to this day it remains my favorite DT record. I never got some of the criticism it gets, mainly the criticism that's directed to the songs being all over the place and having abrupt changes within them. Well, (to me, at least) that's pretty standard fare for DT and I never had a problem with it (on any record they did... though there's some DT offerings I'm not so fond of, namely "Octavarium", "Systematic Chaos" and "Black Clouds and Silver Linings"). Plus, the songwriting is top notch (there isn't a single wasted riff or arrangement here, in my book) and the record features some of their most interesting, soul-searching lyrics ("Scarred" in particular is pretty impressive, lyric-wise... arguably one of JP's very best lyrical contributions, rivaled only by "Lines in the Sand") the band ever did. And I like the keyboard tones... the distorted one in "Caught in the Web" (one of the band's most underrated- though I actually hate the expression- songs) is particularly wicked.

Great post.

[King Postwhore]

Awake is low on my DT list.  It's just one of those albums I don't gravitate to as much anymore and it's not the keys.

[MetropolisWatches]

The keys on Awake are spot on. That album has such a great sound to it. Everything really meshes well.

This so very much! "Awake" was the first DT record I bought back in 1996. It instantly blew me away (I liked it even better than "Images and Words", which was my introduction to the band... and everything clicked on first listen) and to this day it remains my favorite DT record. I never got some of the criticism it gets, mainly the criticism that's directed to the songs being all over the place and having abrupt changes within them. Well, (to me, at least) that's pretty standard fare for DT and I never had a problem with it (on any record they did... though there's some DT offerings I'm not so fond of, namely "Octavarium", "Systematic Chaos" and "Black Clouds and Silver Linings"). Plus, the songwriting is top notch (there isn't a single wasted riff or arrangement here, in my book) and the record features some of their most interesting, soul-searching lyrics ("Scarred" in particular is pretty impressive, lyric-wise... arguably one of JP's very best lyrical contributions, rivaled only by "Lines in the Sand") the band ever did. And I like the keyboard tones... the distorted one in "Caught in the Web" (one of the band's most underrated- though I actually hate the expression- songs) is particularly wicked.

Great post.

Kevin Moore's tone was always excellent. When it comes to lacking keyboard sounds, I could write an essay on Rudess' forays on Train of Thought through Black Clouds and Silver Linings.

[rumborak]

Yeah. Of the three keyboard players actually JR has occasionally stood out negatively in terms of sound. I doubt KM or DS would have put a Bebot solo into their songs.

rumborak

[Perpetual Change]

I've held the same opinion about KevMo's keyboard work on Awake for a long time, actually. I think half of KevMo's performances on the record are some of his best work... and half seem completely phoned-in. Two of those performances, for me, have always been "Caught in a Web" and "Lie". But "Space-Dye Vest" and "Scarred" have always been favorites of mine, so I can't say I know where you're coming from in that respect.

Regardless, Awake is still in my top 3 Dream Theater records. Jordan's choice of patches and parts has been hit or miss as well, I think, though this has been changing a lot lately. I really do think ADTOE includes some of the best keyboarding in the DT discography.

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah. Of the three keyboard players actually JR has occasionally stood out negatively in terms of sound. I doubt KM or DS would have put a Bebot solo into their songs.

rumborak

That's a good thing for JR. I mean, sure Bebot wasn't pretty, but JR actually experiments and is constantly pushing the sounds and technology to create something new, and even helping pioneer new instruments, so you're going to win some and lose some.
KM and DS on the other hand were both pretty safe and limited with their sounds, and never had much diversity in tone or range of instruments, and that got tiring to me with those two, especially DS. JR is the more progressive and ambitious musician. Huge plus for me.

[KevShmev]

Kevin Moore's tone was always excellent. When it comes to lacking keyboard sounds, I could write an essay on Rudess' forays on Train of Thought through Black Clouds and Silver Linings.

Amen to that.  Rudess' lead tone has left a lot to be desired at times.  And while technically a wizard (insert pun), he goes overboard with the overplaying way too often, especially live, which is not something you could ever accuse Moore or Sherinian of.

I've held the same opinion about KevMo's keyboard work on Awake for a long time, actually. I think half of KevMo's performances on the record are some of his best work... and half seem completely phoned-in. Two of those performances, for me, have always been "Caught in a Web" and "Lie". But "Space-Dye Vest" and "Scarred" have always been favorites of mine, so I can't say I know where you're coming from in that respect.

See, I chalk the performances in Lie and Caught in a Web up to being minimalist for a reason; those kind of heavy songs do not always need all kinds of crazy keyboard leads and solos, but just a bit of background atmospheric stuff, and that is what Kevin Moore provided in those songs.  Similarly, Rudess did the same for As I Am.

Yeah. Of the three keyboard players actually JR has occasionally stood out negatively in terms of sound. I doubt KM or DS would have put a Bebot solo into their songs.

rumborak

That's a good thing for JR. I mean, sure Bebot wasn't pretty, but JR actually experiments and is constantly pushing the sounds and technology to create something new, and even helping pioneer new instruments, so you're going to win some and lose some.
KM and DS on the other hand were both pretty safe and limited with their sounds, and never had much diversity in tone or range of instruments, and that got tiring to me with those two, especially DS. JR is the more progressive and ambitious musician. Huge plus for me.

That's a fair point regarding Rudess, but in regards to Moore, it is not.  It might sound safe now, since tons of prog metal bands incorporate those kind of keyboards into their own brand of prog metal, but back in the late 80s/early 90s, what other metal bands featured the same style that Kevin Moore was utilizing?  Hardly any.  Just like it could be argued that Dream Theater created a whole new brand of prog metal, that same argument could be made that Kevin Moore provided the blueprint for how to play keyboards in a prog metal (since other metal bands that did prog prior to them only used keyboard sparingly).  Like I said, it might sound safe now, but back then, it was anything but.  DT inspired a whole wave of prog metal "DT wannabe" bands, and the keyboard sounds were a huge part of the sound that those other bands tried to mimic.

[54_diplomats]

I don't think I ever disliked the keys on any album. My favorite keyboard work is Awake and my least favorite is probably Black Clouds.

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah. Of the three keyboard players actually JR has occasionally stood out negatively in terms of sound. I doubt KM or DS would have put a Bebot solo into their songs.

rumborak

That's a good thing for JR. I mean, sure Bebot wasn't pretty, but JR actually experiments and is constantly pushing the sounds and technology to create something new, and even helping pioneer new instruments, so you're going to win some and lose some.
KM and DS on the other hand were both pretty safe and limited with their sounds, and never had much diversity in tone or range of instruments, and that got tiring to me with those two, especially DS. JR is the more progressive and ambitious musician. Huge plus for me.

That's a fair point regarding Rudess, but in regards to Moore, it is not.  It might sound safe now, since tons of prog metal bands incorporate those kind of keyboards into their own brand of prog metal, but back in the late 80s/early 90s, what other metal bands featured the same style that Kevin Moore was utilizing?  Hardly any.  Just like it could be argued that Dream Theater created a whole new brand of prog metal, that same argument could be made that Kevin Moore provided the blueprint for how to play keyboards in a prog metal (since other metal bands that did prog prior to them only used keyboard sparingly).  Like I said, it might sound safe now, but back then, it was anything but.  DT inspired a whole wave of prog metal "DT wannabe" bands, and the keyboard sounds were a huge part of the sound that those other bands tried to mimic.

That's a fair point too, as you know I'm not much into the prog genre to really know where he stands there in relation to what anyone else was doing at the time. But from WDADU to IaW to Awake, I don't hear a lot of changes in sound. I'm not saying there aren't changes there, because Awake definitely has some very different sounds in there compared to IaW, but I don't consider the exploration of different sounds to be a defining part of his sound like it is for JR, who is still so enthusiastically exploring new sounds and concepts even after all these years. And that enthusiasm excites me every time they step into the studio.

Granted, the difference in technology in the early 90s compared to now is obviously a huge factor there, but I'm just judging what's on the albums.

[?]

I've always liked the keyboard sounds on Awake, they are easily the best sounds Kevin used in DT and I might even call them the best key sounds on any DT album! (call me crazy if you want ) The only improvement I can think of would be having a real grand piano on Voices (the same one he used on SDV).

[obscure]

Personally I hardly ever make comparisons.. When there is a change in the line up, I am always inclined to embrace the new guy... and keep following the leaving member's career...  and I am more than happy to evolve with the band I love if there is a slight change to the sound... provided that there is a consistency in the quality of course....
I totally understand the tendency to compare though.. it's just me.. my personality..  my design...

having said that I love Awake.. I've always loved it... brilliant song-writing..  huge sound .. excellent musicianship including KM's awesome work on keys...

yet again.. I don't make comparisons... could it be better with JR on keys?.. or with 'current Kevin'? or different tones?  I wouldn't know.. so it could well be the case where the OP is totally right and I'm not getting it.. It's just not how I look at it...

[Lolzeez]

I don't think I ever disliked the keys on any album. My favorite keyboard work is Awake and my least favorite is probably Black Clouds.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

I still think Awake is the most interesting DT album to listen to because of the lack of cheese! Although i have nothing against cheese i still feel that without cheese you challenge the listener to use their ears and mind instead of their taste and that is something rare these days even for DT!

[ZirconBlue]

My problem with Awake is . . . nothing.  I have zero problems with Awake. 

[MoraWintersoul]

If we are to compare between the keyboardists, I think Kevin's keyboard work, although highly interesting and enjoyable to me, takes a back seat to his composing. He's really a composer/creative person that just happened to play the keyboards. As for Derek and JR, "winning some and losing some", as blob described it, is a trait of his progressiveness as a musician and that is why I tend to like Derek's work better - his "keyboard shredding" style appeals to my taste and I like his solo work.

But the best Dream Theater keyboardist out of the three is definitely Jordan. He's the best fit and has everything they need. Kev is more of an individual and Derek, although great, is one-dimensional. Jordan is the right fit. He's versatile, creative and has the right working relationship with the rest of the guys.

[TAC]

If I had a a problem with the keyboards on Awake, it would be this..On Awake, they seem to take a back seat. Kind of coloring in here and there. On I&W , the keyboards were far more active and involved. On Awake, they just seem so passive.

[Vivace]

My biggest complaint with Awake is the same complaint Kevin has, the production on the keys is weak compared with the rest of the instruments. It's as if he was pushed all the way to the background unless his keyboard was the primary instrument for that section. Listening to Derek play songs from Awake is how I imagined the production should have been, but alas it is not. Awake is still my #1 album.

[MoraWintersoul]

My biggest complaint with Awake is the same complaint Kevin has, the production on the keys is weak compared with the rest of the instruments. It's as if he was pushed all the way to the background unless his keyboard was the primary instrument for that section. Listening to Derek play songs from Awake is how I imagined the production should have been, but alas it is not. Awake is still my #1 album.

Actually, your complaint is exactly the opposite of his - he likes the keyboard tones but not the general tone

[SeRoX]

The keys on Awake is my absolute favourite among other albums. They are all deep, melodic and well played.

[Scorpion]

My problem with Awake is . . . nothing.  I have zero problems with Awake.

This, sound-wise. The first three songs could gladly be chopped off, but the keyboard tone has never been issue to me.

[TheGreatPretender]

My problem with Awake is . . . nothing.  I have zero problems with Awake.

This, sound-wise. The first three songs could gladly be chopped off, but the keyboard tone has never been issue to me.

I'd take any of the first 3 songs over Erotomania, Lifting Shadows or Space-Dye Vest.

[Scorpion]

My problem with Awake is . . . nothing.  I have zero problems with Awake.

This, sound-wise. The first three songs could gladly be chopped off, but the keyboard tone has never been issue to me.

I'd take any of the first 3 songs over Erotomania, Lifting Shadows or Space-Dye Vest.

Well, I don't. 6:00, while it has really cool drumming, is pretty forgettable otherwise, as is Innocence Faded. Caught in a Web isn't really forgettable, but something bugs me about it. I can't really name it, but I just can't enjoy the song.

[chrisbDTM]

awake rules. every song

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, I don't. 6:00, while it has really cool drumming, is pretty forgettable otherwise, as is Innocence Faded. Caught in a Web isn't really forgettable, but something bugs me about it. I can't really name it, but I just can't enjoy the song.

Yeah, I guess 6:00 does have cool drumming. Honestly, for 6:00 and Caught In A Web, it's the vocals that sell those songs for me. They have some cool riffs, drumming, other parts, etc. But the vocals are just so awesome that it's reason enough to listen.

[ZirconBlue]

awake rules. every song

[Sycsa]

Innocence faded is a real one-of-a-kind song for me, in the sense that I pretty much hated it after hearing it for the first couple of times and thought it was cheesy, but after a while it grew so much on me that it became a top 20 favorite. That never happened with anything else, ever.

[TheGreatPretender]

Innocence faded is a real one-of-a-kind song for me, in the sense that I pretty much hated it after hearing it for the first couple of times and thought it was cheesy, but after a while it grew so much on me that it became a top 20 favorite. That never happened with anything else, ever.

That was me with Home. But Innocence Faded really did grow on me quite a bit.

[DebraKadabra]

awake rules. every song except for Space-Dye Vest

FTFM

[TheGreatPretender]

awake rules. every song except for Space-Dye Vest

FTFM

If it wasn't for those annoying samples, Space-Dye Vest would have been a masterpiece.

[chrisbDTM]

awake rules. every song except for Space-Dye Vest

FTFM

how dare you?!?!
my opinion was an undeniable fact


anyway, the samples help set the helpless mood of the song

[Implode]

awake rules. every song

Except Erotomania. I just can't get into that song. :/

[TheGreatPretender]

anyway, the samples help set the helpless mood of the song

Correction, they TRY to set the helpless mood of the song. I've heard that a thousand times and it doesn't change the fact that they do not have the same effect on me and instead only annoy the crap out of me and distract me from the piano melody which would have otherwise done a magnificent job of setting the helpless mood.

[chrisbDTM]

i think youre getting a little too passionate over sound clips. they are there for a reason. some of the clips more than others but everything in the song is to paint the picture of a man so alone that he fell in love with a girl in a magazine