Why i like Dream Theater but barely any other prog metal

[Aythesryche]

Just curious, has JP or JR ever referred to DT as a prog metal band?

[Perpetual Change]

I love progressive music, and I love metal, but I love very little progressive metal.

In my opinion, progressive metal is kind of like musical theater. It brings together two genres that are totally awesome, and puts them together in something that ideally utilizes both forms in the best way possible. In theory, the final product should be great. Unfortunately, that is usually not the case.

Just like most musicals wind up feeling really cheesy and contrived, most progressive metal ends up combining the worst elements of progressive and metal, rather than the best. Instead of getting prog's tendency to experiment and challenge listeners with metal's energy and melody (which a band like DT can pull off), we often get these really unoriginal bands who combine the excesses prog is guilty of with the cheesiness that metal is usually home to.

As far as Haken goes, I thought Aquarius was a really great album with an original vision and a unique take on the style. I really liked how the band forsook prog metal's overdone symphonic themes for Jazzier undertones. But I haven't listened to Visions very much. I feel like they basically repeated themselves with that record, except they replaced a lot of their originality with prog metal stereotypes the second time around.

Just curious, has JP or JR ever referred to DT as a prog metal band?

Yeah, many times. If you listen to the audio commentary in 5YIALT, he says that he's always thought of Dream Theater as "the metal version of Yes" or something like that. But the identity isn't one they should shy away from. They are really responsible for the genre. There were prog metal bands before DT, like Fates Warning and Queensryche, but both of those bands were metal first and prog second. DT I think were really the first band to be equal amounts of both.

[Sycsa]

Not a prog fan either.  Got into DT because of the metal elements and merely tolerated the proggy stuff.  Now I love it all....but only when DT does it

I feel quite similarly, just on the other side of the fence. I'm mostly into classic 70's, Hammond- and keyboard-based progressive rock and never really liked or listened to metal. Still, DT somehow got to me and grown to be probably one of my top 3 favorite bands ever and the one I definitely listen to the most. I love every single aspect of it(the heavier stuff as well!). I think it takes an incredible band to be able to achieve that.

[TheGreatPretender]

I love progressive music, and I love metal, but I love very little progressive metal.

In my opinion, progressive metal is kind of like musical theater. It brings together two genres that are totally awesome, and puts them together in something that ideally utilizes both forms in the best way possible. In theory, the final product should be great. Unfortunately, that is usually not the case.

If Progressive Metal is like Musical Theater, then Dream Theater is like Evil Dead: The Musical. Pure awesome.

Just curious, has JP or JR ever referred to DT as a prog metal band?

James LaBrie has stated in a 2009 interview, specifically, "We consider ourselves Progressive Metal" emphasizing both words.

There were prog metal bands before DT, like Fates Warning and Queensryche, but both of those bands were metal first and prog second.

Really? I always thought it was the other way around. Not that Queensryche or Fates Warning were ever EXTRMELY progressive, but I always thought they were both a little soft.

[Perpetual Change]

Fates Warning became really soft, but that was after DT came out really. Pre-DT Fates Warning (aka, Alder era) is so metal that its impossible for non-metal heads to enjoy.

[TheGreatPretender]

Yeah, I guess that's true. But Queensryche, I thought were always relatively soft. Apart from maybe their debut EP.

[Jirpo]

I do like other prog metal, but not many too similar to DT (Opeth, Devin, Oceansize etc.) so I can agree with the OP.

[mrjazzguitar]

I don't know whether anybody else feels that way, but despite DT being the band I have enjoyed the most over the years, I barely listen to any other prog metal.
For me it's plain the fact that Dream Theater writes songs. Like, songs you can whistle, that have a catchy chorus etc. Most other prog metal bands, IMHO, fall into the trap of "prog by numbers". It has all the ingredients ( theatrical singer, guitar/key solos, odd measures) but it just feels like randomly strung together ideas. 10 seconds motif A, followed by 10 seconds of motif B. Solo.

Anybody else feel this way? It's just weird that my favorite genre I actually don't like for the most part.

rumborak

OP pretty much sums up how I feel. I really enjoy Opeth, and I think Pain of Salvation's Perfect Element 1 is fantastic, but honestly that's pretty much it

[SeRoX]

Well, I only like progressive metal, a bit glam and doom metal. So I mostly listen all progressive bands, metal or rock and even electronic. But again, I am so picky. In same degree Dream Theater is definition of progressive music for me so I listen bands sound like DT or close.

But I consider myself progressive rock listener more than metal. In the sense of this reason some of DT's heavy tunes are not something I really love but I listen anyway.

[KevShmev]

Anyone who loves Dream Theater but doesn't care for much other progressive metal simply hasn't heard enough.

I disagree.  I have heard plenty, and most of it was not to my liking at all.

   PT bores me to tears.   

Okay, but this thread is about prog metal, and PT is not prog metal.

[snapple]

I don't know whether anybody else feels that way, but despite DT being the band I have enjoyed the most over the years, I barely listen to any other prog metal.
For me it's plain the fact that Dream Theater writes songs. Like, songs you can whistle, that have a catchy chorus etc. Most other prog metal bands, IMHO, fall into the trap of "prog by numbers". It has all the ingredients ( theatrical singer, guitar/key solos, odd measures) but it just feels like randomly strung together ideas. 10 seconds motif A, followed by 10 seconds of motif B. Solo.

Anybody else feel this way? It's just weird that my favorite genre I actually don't like for the most part.

rumborak

I agree. However, I do like some prog, but nothing really new in the last 20 years or so.

[lithium112]

"Progressive Metal" is an interesting genre. DT sounds nothing like Opeth and nothing like Periphery, yet all three are typically placed within the same genre. Of the prog metal bands that are doing the same sort of thing as Dream Theater, DT is the only band I really like. The rest are OK and have some good moments but are just nowhere near as consistent. And the singers tend to sound incredibly cheesy and similar to one another (IMO).

[TheGreatPretender]

"Progressive Metal" is an interesting genre. DT sounds nothing like Opeth and nothing like Periphery, yet all three are typically placed within the same genre. Of the prog metal bands that are doing the same sort of thing as Dream Theater, DT is the only band I really like. The rest are OK and have some good moments but are just nowhere near as consistent. And the singers tend to sound incredibly cheesy and similar to one another (IMO).

I think the main difference between Progressive Metal and Progressive Rock is that Metal in itself is an extremely versatile subgenre of music. I mean, it's always possible that I lack creativity, but I think if you limit yourself to "progressive rock" you can only have so much variety before it changes into either progressive something else (progressive jazz?) or get heavy enough that it CAN be considered progressive Metal. Whereas once you step into that "metal" territory, you could have progressive elements mixed with the elements of traditional heavy metal, thrash metal, power metal, glam metal, death metal, goth metal etc. Each subcategory of metal could have a completely different sound and feel, but all could contain the elements of prog.
And heck, even the definition of "progressive" music differs from person to person.

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah, I lost count of the number of times I've rolled my eyes in the Musicians' Forum at yet another thread of "This is my first songwriting attempt, I'm trying to do a 60-minute concept album. Where should I start?"

rumborak

Man, If I had a dollar for every email I've gotten the lines of "Hey I'm some prog kid and I'm recording a triple prog metal concept album with Garage Band and wanted to know if you could make me a 2 hour 3D video in the style of LOTR to accompany my fresh original story and also I can only pay you in arpeggios".....

It's like many new prog acts miss the point and are too intent on running before they've learned how to walk (I get the same impression from WDADU too). Prog metal isn't supposed to be a checklist of elements to incorporate.

[ZKX-2099]

Hey arpeggios are trading pretty well these days compared to the Japanese yen and Swedish sweep pick.

[MoraWintersoul]

There's quite a few not-so-famous prog metal bands that are doing it right, all you have to do is find out what suits you best and dig, dig, dig.

[DebraKadabra]

There's quite a few not-so-famous prog metal bands that are doing it right, all you have to do is find out what suits you best and dig, dig, dig.

You could say that about any genre, really, but I agree.

[MoraWintersoul]

You could say that about any genre, really, but I agree.

Well, that's the point if the genre sits with you, you'll find more stuff in the genre to listen to. If not, then you just like the band.

[DebraKadabra]

Exactly, just how everyone's musical journey to DT is different.

[BlobVanDam]

Hey arpeggios are trading pretty well these days compared to the Japanese yen and Swedish sweep pick.

I'll be sure to keep that in mind.

[E.S.]

Man, If I had a dollar for every email I've gotten the lines of "Hey I'm some prog kid and I'm recording a triple prog metal concept album with Garage Band and wanted to know if you could make me a 2 hour 3D video in the style of LOTR to accompany my fresh original story and also I can only pay you in arpeggios".....

Sorry for going a bit off topic, but that's hilarious! True story: A local musician actually managed to write off "syncopation" on his tax report with some clever wording, combined with not quite so knowledgeable bureaucrats. The just thought his initial amount was a bit too high, but he did get half of it.

So perhaps it is possible to fit arpeggios into a proper budget.

[Bill Carson]

Totally agree with the OP.
Do love listening to extremely accomplished technical players but unless it has some musical content I get bored real easy.
That's where DT stand out, they actually write great songs, and then the virtuoso playing comes on top. Its a really potent mix.
A mix that few artists who are in the same genre actually get.
Maybe it comes down to the fact that practicing scales is a whole lot easier then writing a song with melody.
I do think that this is a genre that attracts the most misguided people, because technical playing is being passed off as music.
Just wish more people would trust themselves and discover just how creative they can be.

[Miyazaki74]

Not a prog fan either.  Got into DT because of the metal elements and merely tolerated the proggy stuff.  Now I love it all....but only when DT does it

This pretty much sums up my feelings on DT and prog metal.

[cramx3]

I'm not a big prog fan either, DT appealed to me initially because of their metal side. Lately I've begun to really enjoy circus maximus and seventh wonder so maybe there is hope for me, but both those bands have similarities to DT.

[ZirconBlue]

It's Sturgeon's Law; 90% of everything is crap.  The smaller pool of artists to choose from makes it harder to find the 10% of good stuff in Prog Metal.

[Android_D]

It's Sturgeon's Law; 90% of everything is crap.  The smaller pool of artists to choose from makes it harder to find the 10% of good stuff in Prog Metal.

Yes, but the 10% of good stuff will vary from person to person. Pretty much every artist is going to be enjoyed by somebody out there.

[darkshade]

To be honest, I rank/compare some of DT's compositions to other big modern prog rock bands, like Transatlantic, TFK, PT,, etc. and only sometimes compare them to fellow prog-metal bands. DT really are more prog than metal IMO.

[TheGreatPretender]

DT really are more prog than metal IMO.

Train Of Thought would like a word with you.

[SeRoX]

DT really are more prog than metal IMO.

Train Of Thought would like a word with you.

I believe he said it considering the whole discography which I kind of agree.

[Dark Castle]

DT really are more prog than metal IMO.

Train Of Thought would like a word with you.

That album needs to just go bury itself alive, and slowly suffocate.

[TheGreatPretender]

I believe he said it considering the whole discography which I kind of agree.

I find their recent stuff significantly heavier than their early stuff. Systematic Chaos was metal through and through. Same with Black Clouds and honestly, even ADTOE, with songs like BMUBMD, Bridges In The Sky and Outcry, was very Metal. Heck, listen to Awake. I was actually pretty surprised when I first heard it, that they followed Images and Words with an album that's got so much balls. I dunno, I'd say they're 50-50.

The thing is, Progressive in itself isn't a genre, it's a descriptive addition to other subgenres. So I don't see how a band can be "more progressive than they are Metal" when Progressive by itself, cannot exist without at least one other musical element to it. Unless you're using the term "progressive" to describe how far that music tends to stray away from its core genre, like Hollow Years, Another Day, etc. But I don't think that was the intent.

[Perpetual Change]

I'd say they're about 60/40 roundabouts, with 6 of their 11 albums being PROG metal and the others being prog metal or, in one or two cases, prog METAL. It can be deceiving because 3 of those 5 albums have been 3 of the band's last five. So obviously it seems skewed. But I think ADTOE was very well balanced and I'd be surprised if we ever see an overwhelmingly metal album from the band again.

[gm5k]

I'm not a huge fan of Prog Metal either. I like DT, and I like Pagan's Mind. I know most people think Pagan's Mind sucks, but I think they're catchy as hell and they don't really get all showy.

Agreed.  There's 3 prog metal bands I love.  DT, Pagan's Mind, and Circus Maximus.   Like others have said...DT pretty much wrote the book on writing catchy prog metal, and PM and CM certainly don't stray far...at all    Many think of this as a bad thing.  I think of it as a gift from the music Gods because they both do it at such a high level.

I've never been able to get into any other prog metal bands at all.

[TheGreatPretender]

I'd say they're about 60/40 roundabouts, with 6 of their 11 albums being PROG metal and the others being prog metal or, in one or two cases, prog METAL. It can be deceiving because 3 of those 5 albums have been 3 of the band's last five. So obviously it seems skewed. But I think ADTOE was very well balanced and I'd be surprised if we ever see an overwhelmingly metal album from the band again.

Well, even in terms of ADTOE, when I say it's more Metal, I'm not saying that the overall album is all metal like Train of Thought. But I think recently (even since Six Degrees) the really heavy, metal songs that they make, are a lot heavier than, say, what they would've considered to be 'heavy' on an album like Images and Words, or even Scenes From a Memory. Awake was kind of an exception to the rule, and even in that case, even though The Mirror was pretty heavy, it still didn't go quite as extreme as their post Six Degrees stuff. Overall, I would definitely say that DT has been getting Progressively (hur hur) heavier in recent years.

[jingle.boy]

There's quite a few not-so-famous prog metal bands that are doing it right, all you have to do is find out what suits you best and dig, dig, dig.

Very wise statement.

I guess I'm bucking the trend, but I've been finding more and more great prog/metal music lately.  Guess it really depends how one defines "prog".  Sure, I've found stuff not to my liking, but there's a LOT out there that depending on how hard you want to keep digging, will undoubtedly suit one's fancy.  In the last 12 months, I've discovered Flaming Row, Beyond the Bridge, Redemption, Epysode, Avantasia, ReVamp, After Forever, Amaran's Plight, Mind's Eye, Frameshift, Pagan's Mind, Soul Secret, Ice Age, and others.  Depends on how you define Prog-metal I suppose.

There is great music out there to be found.