Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Sycsa]

Yeah, I always thought that Jordan's technique is incredible, but he has some shortcomings in the "taste" department. His solos are often a case of hit or miss, too many notes, not melodic enough, etc. His playing is great on SFAM and SDOIT, but the wah-wah guitar sounding leads from the ToT era (check out the first part of his keyboard solo in Live at Budokan, for instance, horrible) were the first red flag for me. His continuum solos were also usually pretty bad. I also never cared for his plastic organ sound, especially since I knew that if Derek was still in the band, he'd use a real Hammond, which would make a world of difference (Jordan remedied this somewhat on The Astonishing, where he uses a real Leslie for his organs, as far as I can hear). I also really liked his playing on ADTOE.

[Kotowboy]

+1

I've listened to a few of his piano pieces on Youtube and whatnot. And they usually start out nice then just go into piano shred and it loses the melody and the feeling.

I think the last time I enjoyed one of his shred solos on an album was on that one song on the Astonishing - but then it's so out of the blue that it's welcome.

I forgot what song it is.

[ReaperKK]

+1

I've listened to a few of his piano pieces on Youtube and whatnot. And they usually start out nice then just go into piano shred and it loses the melody and the feeling.

Completely agree. I think I posted something along these lines in the overplaying thread.

That said I think he fits in DT very well but I can't enjoy Jordan's playing outside of DT. He has the ability to write some incredible melodies and music but can you please tone down the shredding?

[IDontNotDoThings]

I think the last time I enjoyed one of his shred solos on an album was on that one song on the Astonishing - but then it's so out of the blue that it's welcome.

I forgot what song it is.

The ending of TGOM?

[jakepriest]

I think the last time I enjoyed one of his shred solos on an album was on that one song on the Astonishing - but then it's so out of the blue that it's welcome.

I forgot what song it is.

The ending of TGOM?

Might be A Tempting Offer.

[Architeuthis]

Some of his solos are there because of the guitar and key boards are trading back and forth, almost like a dual. Not always necessary, just because there's a guitar solo there has to be a keyboard solo? I like the tone of the guitar solos way better. There are exceptions, Jordan's solos and all his other parts are perfectly placed in the epic songs Octavarium, Illumination Theory, TCOT, ITNOG etc.  To me, his work on TA is beyond amazing!
I would almost like to see DT do a heavier album without keyboards and see what kind of reception it would get. Put Jordan on rhythm guitar, continuum, steele guitar, and maybe a few atmospheric string sounds in the background like Maiden/Ozzy does. (I know, controversial).
I have a friend that can't get into DT because of the Keyboards, he's more of a metal purist.

[rumborak]

I would like all of them experiment with sounds more actually. As an example, when I first heard of the whole NOMAC thing on TA, I was really looking forward to some awesome interaction between gnarly keyboard sounds and JP's guitar. I assume not a lot of people here listen to dubstep, but the keyboard sounds of that genre would have been *awesome*. Somewhat disappointingly, the NOMACs were only featured in filler tracks, and the actual music only featured the standard sounds.

[mikeyd23]

I would like all of them experiment with sounds more actually. As an example, when I first heard of the whole NOMAC thing on TA, I was really looking forward to some awesome interaction between gnarly keyboard sounds and JP's guitar. I assume not a lot of people here listen to dubstep, but the keyboard sounds of that genre would have been *awesome*. Somewhat disappointingly, the NOMACs were only featured in filler tracks, and the actual music only featured the standard sounds.

Yeah that would be cool. One thing I thought they were going to dive into more and really haven't was some of the electronic drum type stuff on ADTOE. If they continued to incorporate some of that stuff it would be something newish for them.

[Kotowboy]

I think the last time I enjoyed one of his shred solos on an album was on that one song on the Astonishing - but then it's so out of the blue that it's welcome.

I forgot what song it is.

The ending of TGOM?

Might be A Tempting Offer.

It's a really quick one and comes in just as the song speeds up.


EDIT : 1:30 in My Last Farewell !

[Samsara]

Here's one that I think most here will certainly disagree with me on:

Scenes from a Memory is overrated.

Now, before I get 


hear me out... 

It's not that Scenes is a bad record at all. It's not. The songs are solid, the story is creative. It is a completely solid record. Strange Deja Vu, Home, The Spirit Carries On, all exceptional tunes. However, I could never shake the feeling that it is styled, structurally, like so many concept albums before it. Now, part of that is obviously natural -- all the guys are influenced by those that came before them. But some of it was really blatant to my ears/eyes. For example: Regression, Overture 1928, Strange Deja Vu = I Remember Now, Anarchy-X, Revolution Calling. I bring that up as an example, because obviously, being a huge fan of that original lineup of Queensryche, it immediately comes to mind. But there are other structural elements that remind me of The Wall, Tommy, and other concept records.

I guess it makes sense, given influences and all that but...

It really...I don't want to say it marred the record for me, but I sort of expected DT to do something totally different structurally, in comparison to what they did. When SFAM came out (1999, right?) I had only been a DT fan for three years. So the elements of their sound weren't as distinct to me as they are now. But I remember it really, really bothering me.

To this day, I still find 6DoiT (the song) a better conceptual "album" than SFAM. No hate toward SFAM from me here. I just think it is slightly overrated in the band's overall catalog.

[Architeuthis]

 SFAM is a middle of the road DT album for me. Not their best and not their worst, so I'm with you on that..

[Adami]

The only two songs I don't care for on SFAM are The Spirit Carries On and The Dance of Eternity.

Neither are bad, and I admit my hatred of TSCO is because it was played SO much. I think if I can go like 5 years without hearing it at all, I can revisit it and enjoy it.

I can listen to TDOE, but I'll never think it's more than silly instrumental wank without soul.

The rest of the album? It's hard to find a bad note.

[Rammstein]

First post after years of lurking ....

I love FII and I think I like it more than Awake an I&W ... . I also like You Not Me! Not typical DT but really catchy and groovy. And the Chorus is on of the best DT choruses in my opinion.

As a Drummer I just cannot understand the snare in I&W. I mean of course mangini's production is not that great either, but you hear the difference still. The triggered snare almost ruins Songs like Metropolis and UAGM for me, as it is so loud and dominant.

I also think Steven Wilson or another high class Producer could really work for them. Especially in the Sound production they seem to Need fresh ears and more knowhow. I dont think he would be too expensive for them. He could also add creative Input although I guess the band would not want that.
Have you guys listened to Stone Sour's A Hoouse of Gold & Bones? Such a great Sound Quality! Crystal clear and crisp. That guy would be great too.

[Architeuthis]

Welcome Rammstein! 
Good first post, I agree with some of the things you said. You Not Me is actually a cool song, even though popular opinion sais otherwise. FII is good but could have been better. If they would have put "Raise The Knife" on the album instead of "Just Let Me Breath" would have been a big improvement.
I never could figure out why they used electronic drums on I&W. It's a great album but real drums would have been better.

[Logain Ablar]

A second welcome, Rammstein!

FII is a mixed bag for me. Peruvian Skies is one of my top DT tracks, but quite a few others fall flat, like Burning My Soul for instance, which is a skipper every time it comes on. I also really like Hollow Years, but I wouldn't say that it's a typical DT song.

I do think that for me, it's probably the best sounding DT album - great sound on all the instruments and a great balanced mix.

I think the triggered snare kinda dates the sound of I&W a little, but it doesn't actually bother me too much.

[ReaperKK]

The only two songs I don't care for on SFAM are The Spirit Carries On and The Dance of Eternity.

I think I said this earlier in this thread but TSCO is one of the worst DT songs. I didn't like it when I first heard it and like it even less now.

I don't think DT can write good ballads.

[KevShmev]

Here's one that I think most here will certainly disagree with me on:

Scenes from a Memory is overrated.

Now, before I get 


hear me out... 

It's not that Scenes is a bad record at all. It's not. The songs are solid, the story is creative. It is a completely solid record. Strange Deja Vu, Home, The Spirit Carries On, all exceptional tunes. However, I could never shake the feeling that it is styled, structurally, like so many concept albums before it. Now, part of that is obviously natural -- all the guys are influenced by those that came before them. But some of it was really blatant to my ears/eyes. For example: Regression, Overture 1928, Strange Deja Vu = I Remember Now, Anarchy-X, Revolution Calling. I bring that up as an example, because obviously, being a huge fan of that original lineup of Queensryche, it immediately comes to mind. But there are other structural elements that remind me of The Wall, Tommy, and other concept records.

I guess it makes sense, given influences and all that but...

It really...I don't want to say it marred the record for me, but I sort of expected DT to do something totally different structurally, in comparison to what they did. When SFAM came out (1999, right?) I had only been a DT fan for three years. So the elements of their sound weren't as distinct to me as they are now. But I remember it really, really bothering me.

To this day, I still find 6DoiT (the song) a better conceptual "album" than SFAM. No hate toward SFAM from me here. I just think it is slightly overrated in the band's overall catalog.

First off, I am shocked that would find a way to work Queensryche into that summation...

Second, does it bother you that Mindcrime blatantly rips off The Wall at one point?

Third, Scenes from a Memory is awesome.

[Skeever]

Here's one that I think most here will certainly disagree with me on:

Scenes from a Memory is overrated.

Now, before I get 


hear me out... 

It's not that Scenes is a bad record at all. It's not. The songs are solid, the story is creative. It is a completely solid record. Strange Deja Vu, Home, The Spirit Carries On, all exceptional tunes. However, I could never shake the feeling that it is styled, structurally, like so many concept albums before it. Now, part of that is obviously natural -- all the guys are influenced by those that came before them. But some of it was really blatant to my ears/eyes. For example: Regression, Overture 1928, Strange Deja Vu = I Remember Now, Anarchy-X, Revolution Calling. I bring that up as an example, because obviously, being a huge fan of that original lineup of Queensryche, it immediately comes to mind. But there are other structural elements that remind me of The Wall, Tommy, and other concept records.

I guess it makes sense, given influences and all that but...

It really...I don't want to say it marred the record for me, but I sort of expected DT to do something totally different structurally, in comparison to what they did. When SFAM came out (1999, right?) I had only been a DT fan for three years. So the elements of their sound weren't as distinct to me as they are now. But I remember it really, really bothering me.

To this day, I still find 6DoiT (the song) a better conceptual "album" than SFAM. No hate toward SFAM from me here. I just think it is slightly overrated in the band's overall catalog.

I actually agree 100%. To me, Scenes was a record "for the fans", and it shows. But, in my opinion, it doesn't come close to touching Images or Awake. I think my problem is partly the concept. As with the Astonishing, it's just a bit goofy for my tastes. I agree that SDOIT hits much harder, as do several of the band's other longer works.

[rumborak]

I don't know the exact reason for it, but I can ignore SFAM's concept a lot more easily than TA's when I'm listening to the respective album.

[King Postwhore]

I always looked at SFAM as an album for the band.  It's what they wanted to always do but were held back by the record labels.

[rumborak]

Plot wise you can also clearly tell MP's influence, who is a big movie buff. The album synopsis reads like a movie script. The "twist" at the end isn't maybe the greatest thing on earth, but overall the SFAM concept is pretty good.

it also helps that there are no men crying like women on the album.

[Skeever]

IDK, some of the stuff on Scenes is just as mind boggling. I've love a version of Home that isn't marred by those awful samples... haha. And yeah, the samples at the very end of the album  really throw a wet blanket on everything for me. 

I will say that the Scenes concept is, at least, better obfuscated than the one in The Astonishing. The lyrics are just a pinch more abstract, which works in the album's benefit. Several songs can be enjoyed without the lyrics automatically making you think of the story.

[MirrorMask]

Plot wise you can also clearly tell MP's influence, who is a big movie buff. The album synopsis reads like a movie script.

And if you want to know *which* movie script, watch the movie Dead Again.

I personally consider SFAM the best thing ever happened to mankind after the discovery of fire and the development of human rights, but once you've heard Scenes and then you watch Dead Again, well... I'm not saying it's like listening to Stockholm Syndrome after Never Enough, but the inspiration is really there.

[Adami]

it also helps that there are no men crying like women on the album.

Except when James talks about weeping like a baby.

[rumborak]

The TA one always reminds me of Dodgeball:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7jnWRKT1GNk&t=35&feature=youtu.be

[Skeever]

The TA one always reminds me of Dodgeball:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7jnWRKT1GNk&t=35&feature=youtu.be

omg

[Dream Team]

it also helps that there are no men crying like women on the album.

Except when James talks about weeping like a baby.

This exactly. THE is over the top sappy and girly-sounding.

[Rammstein]

One opinion that has nothing to do with Music but with style 

JP, JLB and MM all look a bit strange right now regarding their hair and beard style.

JP-  Well where shall I begin? His beard is kinda out of control, you cant really see a lot of his facial Expression and I think it is just not looking good on him and it makes him look older. His longer hair are ok and classic JP I guess. But they would look cooler with his natural Color (meaning more Grey due to his age).He would look total badass with Long, majestic king hair with Grey elements and beard style like in the ADTOE or BC&SL days. Also the Budokan style was pretty awesome for him.

JLB- I know his beard is his signature pirate style right now  . But I think he Looks miles better shaved. Just like he did on SCORE. His hair style was also more natural at SCORE than right now. Although his Kind of wild 2016/17 style with black hear Looks ok. but still the beard and the dyed hair make him look very serious and grumpy .

MM - Nowadays he Looks like a Samurai with his Long black majestic hair and his pigtail. Also the Swimming goggles  . He looked so good at the Audition with his Little beard underneath his mouth. or with short hear he looked extremely cool.

JR - hi style is known for years and its fitting although it would be cool to see a different beard as well, maybe like the Budokan style.

I know that all of this is so unrelevant but still they kinda look like your 50 year old uncle that tries too hard to be Young and cool. A more classy look would suit them better.

[ReaperKK]

He needs to bring back the mutton chops

[TheGreatPretender]

Couple of things:

JLB- I know his beard is his signature pirate style right now  . But I think he Looks miles better shaved. Just like he did on SCORE. His hair style was also more natural at SCORE than right now. Although his Kind of wild 2016/17 style with black hear Looks ok. but still the beard and the dyed hair make him look very serious and grumpy .

The problem is, it's not SCORE era, it's been 11 years now. And you can see that he's aged quite a bit. I'm not so sure he'd look as good without facial hair, now that his neck has more wrinkles and stuff.
I would be kinda curious to see what he'd look like, but I don't think he'd look as good.

I know that all of this is so unrelevant but still they kinda look like your 50 year old uncle that tries too hard to be Young and cool. A more classy look would suit them better.

The thing is, they're not just 50 year old uncles. DT isn't just a garage band, they're actually an awesome and very successful rock group. So yeah, I dig their visual style. Not so much Petrucci's beard, but I think they should keep the long hair look as long as they can. If they all got modest beards and short, prim and proper hair, they really would look like a garage band, where everyone has an office job and that's why they need to maintain such looks.

But this is DTF, so if we really wanted to see DT all cleaned up and looking like the 1960's version of "classy", there are enough photoshop geniuses here. Let's make it happen!

[Scottjf8]

I start listening to SFAM on track 2.

[jakepriest]

I start listening to SFAM on track 2.

Someone doesn't?

[WheyWaffles]

JP used to give me a bro-boner, but now I find him difficult to look at.

[Prog Snob]

I start listening to SFAM on track 2.

Someone doesn't?

I only skip the first track when I'm driving.

[ReaperKK]

JP used to give me a bro-boner, but now I find him difficult to look at.

DTs best look was the budokan era