Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[erwinrafael]

To date, FII is the gold standard in production for all DT albums.

[Max Kuehnau]

This is controversial to me. (no, really.)

[MirrorMask]

I think the "production scare" for DT should have worn off after just a few years.

Ok, I get it - the record label comes and derails Falling Into Infinity (and eventually we found out that not even all the band members thought of it as a derailment). They want to do things their own way and they make one of the best album ever as a result, awesome! So they self produce... and grow bigger... and bigger... until they are well estabilished, respected and continously sell out big venues, or at the very least, fill them.

I wouldn't know how to pinpoint the exact point in time where a producer would be "safe", but I daresay that after DT estabilished themselves as a leading act, no way the FII nightmare would happen again. No way a producer would come in and go "Lol let's hire someone to write a catchy chorus and please make shorter songs". A producer that gets, understands and respects DT would have done wonders with them.

This is not a knock on Petrucci coproducing the albums, not at all. But I just think that if their rationale for skipping a producer like the plague was "Record label screws it up", they've long been in a position to say to the label "Look, just let us do what we want to do", and a producer would help them, not hinder them.

[bosk1]

I don't think that has been the rationale for a long time now.  I think the rationale is more along the lines of, "We do just fine self-producing, so there's no need to change that."  Whether or not you or I might agree with that, I think that is their thinking.

[Max Kuehnau]

I don't think that has been the rationale for a long time now.  I think the rationale is more along the lines of, "We do just fine self-producing, so there's no need to change that."  Whether or not you or I might agree with that, I think that is their thinking.

I would agree.

[MirrorMask]

Ah well. That could be a better explanation. Probably since MP was the most vocal about the issues with a producer I had in the back of my mind the lasting impression that the FII "debacle" was a factor, but most likely by now they're in the "Don't fix something that ain't broken" mindset.

[Max Kuehnau]

Ah well. That could be a better explanation. Probably since MP was the most vocal about the issues with a producer I had in the back of my mind the lasting impression that the FII "debacle" was a factor, but most likely by now they're in the "Don't fix something that ain't broken" mindset.

which is completely fine by me.

[gzarruk]

I think bringing an external producer, that loves and understands DT, could work really well for them, because it would make them use a different approach, and that could be a really good thing. However, do they need an external producer? Definitely not.

[Evai]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_MlBCb9-m8

A saviour in the square

[bosk1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_MlBCb9-m8

A saviour in the square

[hefdaddy42]

To date, FII is the gold standard in production for all DT albums.

This is not a controversial opinion.

[MoraWintersoul]

This is not a knock on Petrucci coproducing the albums, not at all. But I just think that if their rationale for skipping a producer like the plague was "Record label screws it up", they've long been in a position to say to the label "Look, just let us do what we want to do", and a producer would help them, not hinder them.

Yeah, definitely. The reason why I would want them to hire an external producer is so that they could shake things up. They shook things up with recording in this new studio, and the result is an extremely well received album. If hiring a producer would produce (he he) another different album, I'm cool with it. If it sounds better than what JP can produce, all the better!

I know they had disagreements with all their producers, even Kevin Shirley. But the fans think those albums sound amazing.

[erwinrafael]

To date, FII is the gold standard in production for all DT albums.

This is not a controversial opinion.

Ah yes. I.am.not posting a controwversial opinion. I was responding to a previous.post glorifying Awake. Hehehd

[Zook]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_MlBCb9-m8

A saviour in the square

It sounds sort of similar at parts. I wouldn't call it a rip off at all.

[erwinrafael]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_MlBCb9-m8

A saviour in the square

It doesn't sound like Our New World, and ASITS is just a variation of the ONW theme.

[Volante99]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_MlBCb9-m8

A saviour in the square

Not even close

This one on the other hand,
https://youtu.be/5Py-W946JLo

Paralyzed

[bosk1]

No, not really.

[Volante99]

No, not really.

The verses are VERY similar (chorus is entirely different). Not saying anyone copied anyone, I actually think the songs were released within months of each other.

[AboutToCrash]

I don't know if this is controversial or not on the forums but it might be as it's from a highly regarded album. The section of beyond this life from around 8.30-9.30 is my least favourite moment of DT's entire discography by far. The song itself is amazing but this moment is almost unbearable to my ears. Rudess applies one of the worst keyboard sounds I've ever heard and on top of that plays a strange selection of notes that makes that section sound like a jumbled mess. It almost sounds like a joke, as if someone's overdubbed it. Anyone else agree?  or am I alone here?

[erwinrafael]

Nah, that Frank Zappa style gives that section of the song character, and for songs of that length, individual sections need character to keep my interest.

[Cool Chris]

I don’t know if this is controversial or not on the forums but it might be as it’s from a highly regarded album. The section of beyond this life from around 8.30-9.30 is my least favourite moment of DT’s entire discography by far. The song itself is amazing but this moment is almost unbearable to my ears. Rudess applies one of the worst keyboard sounds I’ve ever heard and on top of that plays a strange selection of notes that makes that section sound like a jumbled mess. It almost sounds like a joke, as if someone’s overdubbed it. Anyone else agree?  or am I alone here?

Definitely toward the top of my "least favorite sections in a good song" list for me. If that section gives that song character, it's the character of your old aunt Gertrude with her 8 cats who still pinches your cheeks when you're 15. I remember them calling that the "Zappa" section of the song in the Live Scenes DVD commentary, which pretty much turned me off to Zappa's music without ever hearing any of it.

[Max Kuehnau]

I don't know if this is controversial or not on the forums but it might be as it's from a highly regarded album. The section of beyond this life from around 8.30-9.30 is my least favourite moment of DT's entire discography by far. The song itself is amazing but this moment is almost unbearable to my ears. Rudess applies one of the worst keyboard sounds I've ever heard and on top of that plays a strange selection of notes that makes that section sound like a jumbled mess. It almost sounds like a joke, as if someone's overdubbed it. Anyone else agree?  or am I alone here?

Definitely toward the top of my "least favorite sections in a good song" list for me. If that section gives that song character, it's the character of your old aunt Gertrude with her 8 cats who still pinches your cheeks when you're 15. I remember them calling that the "Zappa" section of the song in the Live Scenes DVD commentary, which pretty much turned me off to Zappa's music without ever hearing any of it.

This section actually triggered the opposite in my case: the interest in Frank's works (I'm a Frankie fan for almost as long as I am a DT fan actually, love him to this day too and that section is one I like a lot, they could have made it even weirder for my personal taste actually)

[Dream Team]

To date, FII is the gold standard in production for all DT albums.

Not for me, JP's rhythm guitar isn't nearly loud enough and the tone is weak.

[pg1067]

I don't know if this is controversial or not on the forums but it might be as it's from a highly regarded album. The section of beyond this life from around 8.30-9.30 is my least favourite moment of DT's entire discography by far. The song itself is amazing but this moment is almost unbearable to my ears. Rudess applies one of the worst keyboard sounds I've ever heard and on top of that plays a strange selection of notes that makes that section sound like a jumbled mess. It almost sounds like a joke, as if someone's overdubbed it. Anyone else agree?  or am I alone here?

I assume you're talking about the section starting at 8:16 in 17/8 time (and changing to 4/4 around 9:07).  I don't know if your opinion is controversial, but I absolutely LOVE that section.  At one point, BTL was one of my least favorite parts of SFAM, but I always loved the instrumental section and that section in particular.  It is definitely odd, but it totally works for me.  Not sure what your "overdubbed" comment is about since pretty much every keyboard and guitar solo is overdubbed.  If there are Zappa songs that sound like that, I'd like to know what they are (I keep saying I want to get into Zappa, but I never have and am not sure where to start).

[AboutToCrash]

I don't know if this is controversial or not on the forums but it might be as it's from a highly regarded album. The section of beyond this life from around 8.30-9.30 is my least favourite moment of DT's entire discography by far. The song itself is amazing but this moment is almost unbearable to my ears. Rudess applies one of the worst keyboard sounds I've ever heard and on top of that plays a strange selection of notes that makes that section sound like a jumbled mess. It almost sounds like a joke, as if someone's overdubbed it. Anyone else agree?  or am I alone here?

I assume you're talking about the section starting at 8:16 in 17/8 time (and changing to 4/4 around 9:07).  I don't know if your opinion is controversial, but I absolutely LOVE that section.  At one point, BTL was one of my least favorite parts of SFAM, but I always loved the instrumental section and that section in particular.  It is definitely odd, but it totally works for me.  Not sure what your "overdubbed" comment is about since pretty much every keyboard and guitar solo is overdubbed.  If there are Zappa songs that sound like that, I'd like to know what they are (I keep saying I want to get into Zappa, but I never have and am not sure where to start).

Overdubbed as in.. a random guy on the internet found the backing track and put something silly over it! In all seriousness I'm glad it's resonated with some people. I guess something like that can go either way. Saying that;, I enjoy the unison just after it. You were correct with the time stamps! I had it on today whilst I was driving so I memorised a vague timescale of it. It's one of the only DT songs I've heard a handful of times due to that section, time will tell if my opinion will change as it has done in the past

[Setlist Scotty]

I don't know if this is controversial or not on the forums but it might be as it's from a highly regarded album. The section of beyond this life from around 8.30-9.30 is my least favourite moment of DT's entire discography by far. The song itself is amazing but this moment is almost unbearable to my ears. Rudess applies one of the worst keyboard sounds I've ever heard and on top of that plays a strange selection of notes that makes that section sound like a jumbled mess. It almost sounds like a joke, as if someone's overdubbed it. Anyone else agree?  or am I alone here?

I assume you're talking about the section starting at 8:16 in 17/8 time (and changing to 4/4 around 9:07).  I don't know if your opinion is controversial, but I absolutely LOVE that section.  At one point, BTL was one of my least favorite parts of SFAM, but I always loved the instrumental section and that section in particular.  It is definitely odd, but it totally works for me.  Not sure what your "overdubbed" comment is about since pretty much every keyboard and guitar solo is overdubbed.  If there are Zappa songs that sound like that, I'd like to know what they are (I keep saying I want to get into Zappa, but I never have and am not sure where to start).

Overdubbed as in.. a random guy on the internet found the backing track and put something silly over it! In all seriousness I'm glad it's resonated with some people. I guess something like that can go either way. Saying that;, I enjoy the unison just after it. You were correct with the time stamps! I had it on today whilst I was driving so I memorised a vague timescale of it. It's one of the only DT songs I've heard a handful of times due to that section, time will tell if my opinion will change as it has done in the past

Add me to the list of those who never really liked that part of an otherwise stellar song. I remember hearing it for the first time and was like WHAT THE....!?!?!?!? Since it's been almost 20 years, obviously I've gotten use to that section of the song, but I'd still have preferred something else in it's place. I'm like Mr. Cool - after learning that it was the "Zappa" section, I realized this was a clear indication that I would never like Frank's music, even tho I know he was a musical genius.

[pg1067]

I don't know if this is controversial or not on the forums but it might be as it's from a highly regarded album. The section of beyond this life from around 8.30-9.30 is my least favourite moment of DT's entire discography by far. The song itself is amazing but this moment is almost unbearable to my ears. Rudess applies one of the worst keyboard sounds I've ever heard and on top of that plays a strange selection of notes that makes that section sound like a jumbled mess. It almost sounds like a joke, as if someone's overdubbed it. Anyone else agree?  or am I alone here?

I assume you're talking about the section starting at 8:16 in 17/8 time (and changing to 4/4 around 9:07).  I don't know if your opinion is controversial, but I absolutely LOVE that section.  At one point, BTL was one of my least favorite parts of SFAM, but I always loved the instrumental section and that section in particular.  It is definitely odd, but it totally works for me.  Not sure what your "overdubbed" comment is about since pretty much every keyboard and guitar solo is overdubbed.  If there are Zappa songs that sound like that, I'd like to know what they are (I keep saying I want to get into Zappa, but I never have and am not sure where to start).

Overdubbed as in.. a random guy on the internet found the backing track and put something silly over it! In all seriousness I'm glad it's resonated with some people. I guess something like that can go either way. Saying that;, I enjoy the unison just after it. You were correct with the time stamps! I had it on today whilst I was driving so I memorised a vague timescale of it. It's one of the only DT songs I've heard a handful of times due to that section, time will tell if my opinion will change as it has done in the past

I think when you play music that has "weird" sections -- as DT does -- you're going to run the risk that some folks won't like it and some will love it.  It's the nature of the beast.  I came around to liking all of BTL.  I also didn't initially care for any of disc 1 of SDOIT, but then the first three songs clicked for me at good 5+ years after the album was released.  If this particular section never clicks for you, then c'est la vie.

[Setlist Scotty]

I think when you play music that has "weird" sections -- as DT does -- you're going to run the risk that some folks won't like it and some will love it.  It's the nature of the beast.

Oh I completely agree with that. I'd go so far as to say that's the case for any of their music, with or without weird sections. The problem I have (and I'd imagine others too) is that it sounds so disjointed and doesn't fit the song really at all. Had they tweaked the sounds so that it sounded like DT and not FZ, then maybe it wouldn't have been an issue. Take another song they did that had a "Zappa" section in it: CiaW. The section from 2:43 to 3:12 was the "Zappa" section in that song, yet the average fan would never realize that it was heavily influenced by FZ because the style of the keys and guitar are the same as the rest of the song, and it doesn't have those awful horns or other sounds that scream FZ. Had the section in BTL been the same way, I probably still wouldn't like it completely, but I'd probably like it a lot more than I do now.

[Dublagent66]

The instrumental section in TMoLS is still one of DT's best no matter how disjointed some people might think it is. 

[TheCountOfNYC]

The instrumental section in TMoLS is still one of DT's best no matter how disjointed some people might think it is. 

Whether it fits with the song or not is an entirely different debate, but just looking at the section outside of the context of the song, it's brilliant.

[gzarruk]

The instrumental section in TMoLS is still one of DT's best no matter how disjointed some people might think it is. 

Whether it fits with the song or not is an entirely different debate, but just looking at the section outside of the context of the song, it's brilliant.

I agree! That section is my favorite part of the song (along with JP's solo at the end). That unison at the end of the instrumental section is amazing

[Another_Won]

The instrumental section in TMoLS is still one of DT's best no matter how disjointed some people might think it is. 

Whether it fits with the song or not is an entirely different debate, but just looking at the section outside of the context of the song, it's brilliant.

I agree! That section is my favorite part of the song (along with JP's solo at the end). That unison at the end of the instrumental section is amazing

Yes! Couldn't agree more.

[lucidlydreaming]

The instrumental section in TMoLS is still one of DT's best no matter how disjointed some people might think it is. 

It doesn't fit the song.  It's not brilliant if it doesn't work as a whole piece.  That section does not exist in a vacuum.

[jakepriest]

The instrumental section in TMoLS is still one of DT's best no matter how disjointed some people might think it is. 

It doesn't fit the song.  It's not brilliant if it doesn't work as a whole piece.  That section does not exist in a vacuum.

Or you could say that the boring rest of the song doesn't fit the brilliant instrumental section

[Another_Won]

The instrumental section in TMoLS is still one of DT's best no matter how disjointed some people might think it is. 

It doesn't fit the song.  It's not brilliant if it doesn't work as a whole piece.  That section does not exist in a vacuum.

Or you could say that the boring rest of the song doesn't fit the brilliant instrumental section