Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Zook]

Two controversial opinions:

1. TMOLS is a great song.

2. DLPM and TLF are better songs than Surrounded and Another Day.

No. Just no.

[Herrick]

Two controversial opinions:

1. TMOLS is a great song.

2. DLPM and TLF are better songs than Surrounded and Another Day.

Which songs are those?

Herrick needs to learn DT acronyms better!   

TMOLS = The Ministry of Lost Souls
DLPM = Don't Look Past Me
TLF = To Live Forever

I'm so bad at them that I have to think for a second even when it's an album name.

[Cool Chris]

DLPM I could see fitting in to I&W well enough (though not as a replacement for AD or Surrounded), but not TLF, which I think is by far the most overhyped DT rarity on this forum.

[gzarruk]

DLPM I could see fitting in to I&W well enough (though not as a replacement for AD or Surrounded), but not TLF, which I think is by far the most overhyped DT rarity on this forum.

...because it's really good?

[zappafrank2112]

Current controversial opinion:

I'd be OK never hearing them play The Spirit Carries On ever again

[ReaperKK]

Current controversial opinion:

I'd be OK never hearing them play The Spirit Carries On ever again

I agree with this.

[Volante99]

Current controversial opinion:

I'd be OK never hearing them play The Spirit Carries On ever again

I agree with this.

I think most of us would 

But I'll be damned if that JP solo wasn't one of the highlights of the show I saw on this tour. Holy heck, blew my head off.

[Setlist Scotty]

From my perspective, referring to TA as the most musically diverse in the catalog would be the same thing as saying that BCaSL is their "death metal" album just because of MP's angry vocals during *that* section of ANtR, or that Awake is full of samples just because 6:00, The Mirror and SDVest have them. Better yet, since we're talking about TA, it's like saying it's a metal album. Yes those elements are on those respective albums, but certainly are not representative of them. Had those elements you refer to have been more significant throughout TA as were the NOMAC tracks, you wouldn't have an argument from me. But to cite unusual and brief elements as making the album the most musically diverse when the vast majority of it is piano-based ballads with some prog and a bit of metal here and there comes off as misleading, IMO.

Know what is misleading?  Saying the vast majority of The Astonishing is piano-based ballads.  That is not even close to accurate.  If you want to argue that TA isn't musically diverse, have at it, but saying inaccurate things like that to make your point seems odd.

Who's the fact-checker now?   

It's more due to the fact most songs begin with just piano, strings, guitar. It is a ballady album

Exactly! Ben_Jamin understands what I was trying to say. But yeah, in retrospect, my comment was hyperbole.

Current controversial opinion:

I'd be OK never hearing them play The Spirit Carries On ever again

Add me to that last. I've seen it far more times than I care to count.

[Evai]

I've never been to the live show, I'd hope they play The Spirit Carries On.

[pg1067]

DLPM I could see fitting in to I&W well enough (though not as a replacement for AD or Surrounded), but not TLF, which I think is by far the most overhyped DT rarity on this forum.

Given all the hype for the FII rejects, I'm not sure I agree with this, but I agree that TLF is overhyped (although, IMO, it's miles better than DLPM).  In fact, judging from what I've read, my opinion that DT made the right decision on every one of these songs when they didn't include them on an album is fairly controversial.

Current controversial opinion:

I'd be OK never hearing them play The Spirit Carries On ever again

I agree with this.

I think most of us would 

But I'll be damned if that JP solo wasn't one of the highlights of the show I saw on this tour. Holy heck, blew my head off.

I'd be ok with never hearing TSCO or PMU again, but I won't be disappointed when I do hear them.

[Ruba]

Status Seeker is one of the best DT songs. Maybe a top ten for me.

[DTA]

Status Seeker is one of the best DT songs. Maybe a top ten for me.

If any song from WDADU had production like their later albums, it'd be a standout song. Such good writing and playing.

[IgnotusPerIgnotium]

Status Seeker is one of the best DT songs. Maybe a top ten for me.

Very underrated..also Light Fuse and Get Away..I really wished they played these more often!

[Setlist Scotty]

If any song from WDADU had production like their later albums, it'd be a standout song. Such good writing and playing.

Agreed! While they don't have the production of their later albums, do a search for remixes of Status Seeker and Afterlife, where you can hear some improvement on those 2 songs. 

Status Seeker is one of the best DT songs. Maybe a top ten for me.

Very underrated..also Light Fuse and Get Away..I really wished they played these more often!

Agreed. Sadly, I doubt that will ever happen again.

[MoraWintersoul]

In fact, judging from what I've read, my opinion that DT made the right decision on every one of these songs when they didn't include them on an album is fairly controversial.

I'm one of the people who hype these songs, but I don't think they would have fit on any of the albums. DT albums are pretty long as it is.

[Max Kuehnau]

Here's another one for you: There is the version of TBOT on 'Youtube where we see MP recording it in the studio (this one here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd3VIgu0Tak , which most of us here have seen I'm sure), now you'll notice that JP's solo is longer and it has a different ending and no fadeout. I would have preferred this version on the album by quite a bit (the "proper version" as I call it)

[Evai]

Interesting. That ending sounds kinda unfinished (lack of keys?) but maybe it could've been cool if they worked on it some more.

[PetFish]

Here's another one for you: There is the version of TBOT on 'Youtube where we see MP recording it in the studio (this one here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd3VIgu0Tak , which most of us here have seen I'm sure), now you'll notice that JP's solo is longer and it has a different ending and no fadeout. I would have preferred this version on the album by quite a bit (the "proper version" as I call it)

I also prefer songs that end and don't fade out... unless the plan was to have an extended JP improv section at the end, which we'll probably never find out unfortunately.

I usually have the retro station on TV in the background and it's amazing how popular the fade-out used to be.  Great music and memories but, man, lots of fade-outs.

[The Walrus]

The guitar solo has been victim of many a fade-out. GnR's Nightrain comes to mind. Sigh...

[IDontNotDoThings]

I love fade-outs personally. I think it makes the song feel a lot bigger when it doesn't have a defined end point. Like anything it can be overused, but it's extremely effective when it's done well (see Take The Time and Learning To Live).

[MirrorMask]

On the other hand: can you name any single occourence where you thought "damn, I wish they would have faded out the song"? I'd daresay no.

I'm not against fade outs per se, but they have to have some kind of meaning, maybe a thematic one - end of the album, the way the lyrics go, anything than "uuh and I guess we just can't be bothered to write an ending for the song, which we have to do anyway to play it live".

Naive question, maybe I'm about to tell a very stupid thing: could it be that fadeouts were so popular to give the chance to the DJ to talk over it and save time? we all know how radios wanted short songs, how Queen had to fight to push for the 6 minutes long Bohemian Rhapsody etc, so maybe a fade out gives a chance to "save some time" since the song is ending anyway.

[IDontNotDoThings]

On the other hand: can you name any single occourence where you thought "damn, I wish they would have faded out the song"? I'd daresay no.

Many times actually, but a few that come to mind:
Black Sabbath - Under The Sun
DragonForce - Above the Winter Moonlight
The Mars Volta - Tetragrammation
Iron Maiden - The Red And The Black
Ayreon - The Day That The World Breaks Down

[The Walrus]

On the other hand: can you name any single occourence where you thought "damn, I wish they would have faded out the song"? I'd daresay no.

Many times actually, but a few that come to mind:
DragonForce - Above the Winter Moonlight

Duuuude yes. That would've worked so well with a fade out, just letting the strings do their thing as it gets quieter.

[pg1067]

I love fade-outs personally. I think it makes the song feel a lot bigger when it doesn't have a defined end point. Like anything it can be overused, but it's extremely effective when it's done well (see Take The Time and Learning To Live).

The ending of LTL from the early/mid-90s was spectacular and way better than fading out.  If they had done that on the album, the song would be even better than it already is.

[Zook]

Fade outs are fine as long as they aren't too quick. 

[Dublagent66]

I love fade-outs personally. I think it makes the song feel a lot bigger when it doesn't have a defined end point. Like anything it can be overused, but it's extremely effective when it's done well (see Take The Time and Learning To Live).

The ending of LTL from the early/mid-90s was spectacular and way better than fading out.  If they had done that on the album, the song would be even better than it already is.

What version of LTL are you referring to?  I think the studio version is as close to perfect as it can get.  Wouldn't change a thing.

[pg1067]

I love fade-outs personally. I think it makes the song feel a lot bigger when it doesn't have a defined end point. Like anything it can be overused, but it's extremely effective when it's done well (see Take The Time and Learning To Live).

The ending of LTL from the early/mid-90s was spectacular and way better than fading out.  If they had done that on the album, the song would be even better than it already is.

What version of LTL are you referring to?  I think the studio version is as close to perfect as it can get.  Wouldn't change a thing.

I left out the word "live" in my prior post, so it's pretty much any live version from he I&W tour.  Specifically, the 3/4/93 NYC show that's available from Ytse Jam Records has a good example.

[IDontNotDoThings]

lol "Learning to Live Live"

I'm listening to it now, the added solos were pretty cool, but the repetition of some of the previous parts felt a little confusing. I still prefer the fadeout, even if it is a little quick.

[DreamerTV]

While being their strong point in the past, their live rendition has weakened dramatically over the last 5 years (being their previous tour an exception, mostly because of I&W). Something that is more evident when put in a festival context where compared to others world class preformers they result as a mediocre live act - it didn't use to be like that.
And it has nothing to with MP/MM, but more like with songs played with a click track, fake background singing, James, and surprisingly JP, conditions and questionable setlist choices (being this last one on par with 2015 summer tour on being the worst of it all).

[Herrick]

While being their strong point in the past, their live rendition has weakened dramatically over the last 5 years (being their previous tour an exception, mostly because of I&W). Something that is more evident when put in a festival context where compared to others world class preformers they result as a mediocre live act - it didn't use to be like that.
And it has nothing to with MP/MM, but more like with songs played with a click track, fake background singing, James, and surprisingly JP, conditions and questionable setlist choices (being this last one on par with 2015 summer tour on being the worst of it all).

I don't understand why they do what they do with the backing vocals. I guess it looks cooler to have someone look like they're singing it live but it's not much better than lip syncing. From what I've heard on this forum, Petrucci's voice is in there somewhere but it's low in the mix? It would seem more "honest" if they just played the tape or whatever without the miming.

[TAC]

I totally agree. Piped in backing vocals is nothing more than Britney Theater. 

[Evai]

It just looks a bit weird because all the backings appear to come from JP. A lot of bands use prerecorded backing vox now, but it's hard to tell because you see multiple people on mics.

[DreamerTV]

It just looks a bit weird because all the backings appear to come from JP. A lot of bands use prerecorded backing vox now, but it's hard to tell because you see multiple people on mics.

Jp's there, but i'd say it's like 5%, or even less, of what you hear. Mostly are James's vocal tracks from studio sessions.

[bosk1]

Controversial opinion:  I love the volume swells JP does in the middle section in TCOT.  HOWEVER, Dave Meniketti is the undisputed world champion of volume swells, as illustrated here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNauw3AuwTA&t=2m37s  (watch up to the 3:12 mark)

[KevShmev]

I don't understand why they do what they do with the backing vocals. I guess it looks cooler to have someone look like they're singing it live but it's not much better than lip syncing. From what I've heard on this forum, Petrucci's voice is in there somewhere but it's low in the mix? It would seem more "honest" if they just played the tape or whatever without the miming.

It is not miming. I have feel like this has been covered like 459 times already, but JP is not miming or lip synching.  He is almost always singing along to a pre-recorded backing vocal, which is much higher in the mix, but make no mistake about it: JP is singing.