Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Ben_Jamin]

If They didn't play Don't Look Past Me live, we would have never got Barstool Warrior.

Listen to those songs back to back, they fit perfectly into one another.

[pg1067]

If They didn't play Don't Look Past Me live, we would have never got Barstool Warrior.

Listen to those songs back to back, they fit perfectly into one another.

Regardless of the correctness of the second sentence, the first sentence makes no sense at all to me.

[MHStrawn]

Haven't been here in a while but was looking for some information on Ytsejam Records.  Saw this and thought I'd chime in. 

Every since Portnoy left I've found very little to like in DT.  ADTOE seemed like a really good album at first.  But after repeated listenings it just didn't withstand the test of time.  And I'm not smart enough to know whether it's true or not, but it certainly SEEMS like it's Petrucci's remake of IAW. 

The DREAM THEATER release was just blah...seemed like a continuation of the idea decay that started around the Train of Thought period and continued ever since. Then The Astonishing...just wow.  I just checked my library...and I have my ratings on that album:

4-stars: (out of 5): 23 minutes
3-stars: 59 minutes
2-stars: 41 minutes
1-star: 9 minutes

I know many enjoy TA but it's the definition of a disasterpiece for me. Combined all that had become bland and uninspiring while leaving out most of the good DT possesses. I haven't bough the new album bc I just don't see the point. I find Petrucci's song-writing to be on autopilot since...well, for a long time. Mangini is technically a wizard but he's just not very innovative or creative IMO.  It all just sounds dull and monotnous at this point.

Now, it had become dull and monotonous to me by the time of BCASLinings. I thought that album pretty much sucked. So the band had grown stale before MP left.

I've also enjoyed a lot of Portnoy's stuff since leaving DT. His work in Transatlantic (especially The Whirlwind) and Neal Morse (especially Similitude of a Dream) is light years ahead of anything DT has done since SDOIT (again, just my opinion).

Anyway...that's my controversial opinion.  I still enjoy a ton of their music (was exploring what I call the "extended" version of FII last night, which got me down this rabbithole).

[MHStrawn]

I don't think it's too improbable for them to bust out the SDOIT title track, but certainly not as an encore. It could make up a good chunk of the second set, maybe followed by As I am as the set closer. 

I see what you did there - the two songs would flow into each other perfectly!!!


Btw, I saw Haken a few years back in a bar (!) where 80 people fitted in, and they played Visions AND Celestial Elixir as encore... so that's roughly 40 minutes  Also, Transatlantic played Stranger In Your Soul as the encore in a huge 33 minute version during the Whirld Tour.

Saw Neal Morse on the Great Adventure tour and they did a 30 minute medley as an encore.

Saw Dream Theater on Systematic Chaos tour and they did a 21 minute medley as an encore. 

If you do SDOIT as an encore...you're probably only doing one primary set of 2 hours or so...as opposed to two primary sets (each maybe an hour?) and then an encore that's 2/3 of that length.

[pg1067]

Haven't been here in a while but was looking for some information on Ytsejam Records.  Saw this and thought I'd chime in. 

. . .

Anyway...that's my controversial opinion.  I still enjoy a ton of their music (was exploring what I call the "extended" version of FII last night, which got me down this rabbithole).

That's a lot of words to say basically "DT has sucked for the last decade-plus."

I've also enjoyed a lot of Portnoy's stuff since leaving DT. His work in Transatlantic (especially The Whirlwind) and Neal Morse (especially Similitude of a Dream) is light years ahead of anything DT has done since SDOIT (again, just my opinion).

The Whirlwind came out in 2009 - nearly a year before MP left DT.

[Northern Lion]

Haven't been here in a while but was looking for some information on Ytsejam Records.  Saw this and thought I'd chime in. 

Every since Portnoy left I've found very little to like in DT.  ADTOE seemed like a really good album at first.  But after repeated listenings it just didn't withstand the test of time.  And I'm not smart enough to know whether it's true or not, but it certainly SEEMS like it's Petrucci's remake of IAW. 

The DREAM THEATER release was just blah...seemed like a continuation of the idea decay that started around the Train of Thought period and continued ever since. Then The Astonishing...just wow.  I just checked my library...and I have my ratings on that album:

4-stars: (out of 5): 23 minutes
3-stars: 59 minutes
2-stars: 41 minutes
1-star: 9 minutes

I know many enjoy TA but it's the definition of a disasterpiece for me. Combined all that had become bland and uninspiring while leaving out most of the good DT possesses. I haven't bough the new album bc I just don't see the point. I find Petrucci's song-writing to be on autopilot since...well, for a long time. Mangini is technically a wizard but he's just not very innovative or creative IMO.  It all just sounds dull and monotnous at this point.

Now, it had become dull and monotonous to me by the time of BCASLinings. I thought that album pretty much sucked. So the band had grown stale before MP left.

I've also enjoyed a lot of Portnoy's stuff since leaving DT. His work in Transatlantic (especially The Whirlwind) and Neal Morse (especially Similitude of a Dream) is light years ahead of anything DT has done since SDOIT (again, just my opinion).

Anyway...that's my controversial opinion.  I still enjoy a ton of their music (was exploring what I call the "extended" version of FII last night, which got me down this rabbithole).

Well, I can't blame a guy for his opinion.  And you're certainly not alone.  In fact, it seems like most bands earlier work is generally more popular and loved than their later work.  I&W is still their best selling album.

Although I really like the Mangini era, I can see why all lot of fans soured after MP left.  But, I didn't become a fan until ADToE so naturally MP's leaving didn't affect me as much from a fan perspective.

But hey, welcome back none-the-less.  And maybe give D/T a spin on youtube and see what you think.  I think it's pretty good myself.  However, FII and it's extended demos are pretty awesome as well

[DoctorAction]

I can understand the opinion. There's only about 25% hit rate on the MM era for me. But that was better than BCSL/SC/TOT for me so I don't put it down to MP leaving at all.

D/T has won me back, tho. Really enjoyable record.

If i have one opinion about them now - they need to carry on loosening up and enjoying themselves. Cut the metronome, keep in some flaws, make it as human as possible. I'm very optimistic about them since D/T. 

[MHStrawn]

I can understand the opinion. There's only about 25% hit rate on the MM era for me. But that was better than BCSL/SC/TOT for me so I don't put it down to MP leaving at all.

D/T has won me back, tho. Really enjoyable record.

If i have one opinion about them now - they need to carry on loosening up and enjoying themselves. Cut the metronome, keep in some flaws, make it as human as possible. I'm very optimistic about them since D/T. 

I have pretty much all the live video releases by DT and Transatlantic / Neal Morse band.  The one thing that stands out is both Transatlantic and Neal Morse Band are simply having WAAAAY more fun than the DT guys when playing live.  I believe that was one of the reasons MP said he wanted a break, was he realized he was enjoying playing with other bands more than playing with DT. 

I will give the new album a listen on Spotify or something.  I need to give it a chance rather than dismiss it.  I don't often listen to Spotify so it didn't occur to me but I'll give it a listen.

[DoctorAction]

Fun is where it's at, right? To quote a Devin Townsend song "it's just entertainment, folks". Who wants a stiff, uptight band? Not me, anyway.

D/T isn't a perfect album but it is a great, enduring listen, afaic. Just has some of that magic, joyous quality.

[Volante99]

I can understand the opinion. There's only about 25% hit rate on the MM era for me. But that was better than BCSL/SC/TOT for me so I don't put it down to MP leaving at all.

D/T has won me back, tho. Really enjoyable record.

If i have one opinion about them now - they need to carry on loosening up and enjoying themselves. Cut the metronome, keep in some flaws, make it as human as possible. I'm very optimistic about them since D/T. 

I simply miss the unpredictability of the Portnoy era. On those classic songs it felt like anything could happen at any moment-  twist and turns, transitions, shifts in mood, jazzy instrumental sections. Even BCSL had some of that. There's nothing wrong with songs like Enemy Inside, On the Backs of Angels, Untethered Angel, Paralyzed, Looking Glass etc etc but there's just not much to sink my teeth into either. And the band seems more and more committed to making songs like that. It's not all Portnoy, though. ADoTE also has some of that kinetic spark, but the last three albums just haven't had the staying power/interest for me.

[PetFish]

I have pretty much all the live video releases by DT and Transatlantic / Neal Morse band.  The one thing that stands out is both Transatlantic and Neal Morse Band are simply having WAAAAY more fun than the DT guys when playing live.  I believe that was one of the reasons MP said he wanted a break, was he realized he was enjoying playing with other bands more than playing with DT.

Aside from MP none of the guys ever looked like they were having much "fun", least of all JM, he hasn't moved from that spot since 1988.  So the remaining DT guys are the same as when MP was in DT so saying they don't look like they're having "fun" doesn't work since they look the same.

Yes, MP was/is awesome at having "fun", and now that we don't see him with DT we realize we miss that aspect of the live show, but to say the rest of the guys aren't having "fun" is just wrong.

[Bentower]

It's pretty obvious to me that the band is currently enjoying themselves on stage. Well okay, James less so at times when the struggling becomes apparent.
There are more ways than one to vibe with the music after all. It doesn't always manifest in an animated "rock show" nor does it need to. I think the way JM, for example gets into it is perfectly fine.

[hunnus2000]

I have pretty much all the live video releases by DT and Transatlantic / Neal Morse band.  The one thing that stands out is both Transatlantic and Neal Morse Band are simply having WAAAAY more fun than the DT guys when playing live.  I believe that was one of the reasons MP said he wanted a break, was he realized he was enjoying playing with other bands more than playing with DT.

Aside from MP none of the guys ever looked like they were having much "fun", least of all JM, he hasn't moved from that spot since 1988.  So the remaining DT guys are the same as when MP was in DT so saying they don't look like they're having "fun" doesn't work since they look the same.

Yes, MP was/is awesome at having "fun", and now that we don't see him with DT we realize we miss that aspect of the live show, but to say the rest of the guys aren't having "fun" is just wrong.

Completely agree. MP is a showman cut out of the same mold as Keith Moon. JR, JP and even MM seem to have a laser focus on their very complicated parts and I mention MM because he sometimes plays righty and sometimes lefty so he's always thinking a couple of bars ahead if that makes sense. And JM is who he is. I can't fault him for not jumping around and acting like he's something he's not.

[TAC]

MM sure seems like he's having fun live.

And James definitely does with MP out of the band.

[KidInTheDark666]

Yeah, Mangini is definitely the happiest looking dude on the stage these days.

[Cool Chris]

And James definitely does with MP out of the band.

[IgnotusPerIgnotium]

Yes, MP was/is awesome at having "fun", and now that we don't see him with DT we realize we miss that aspect of the live show, but to say the rest of the guys aren't having "fun" is just wrong.

May I add that after MP's departure not only the music suffered but most of all the live shows..the presentation of the stage, the set lists, even the tributes like the most recent of Neil Peart's..the DT that I've known and loved had this kind of atmosphere..the unpredictability, the jams and the presentation of the band on stage..also let's not forget that the guys always played and still play long and demanding pieces of music..so they can't be all like they're rocking out all the time..but yeah that's what I miss the most..if only Petrucci unacknowledged that it was not something that one guy did but a unique feature and strength of the band he should reconsider some things about their live presentation and performance...

[Lethean]

MM sure seems like he's having fun live.

And James definitely does with MP out of the band.

I also think JP looks like he's having fun and has been more active on stage than he was before. 

To me the band seems happy and having fun and that is conveyed to the audience as well.  There's more than one way to have fun and more than one kind of positive energy.  When I'm at a DT show, I always feel energized, moved, and have a great time.

[pg1067]

Aside from MP none of the guys ever looked like they were having much "fun", least of all JM, he hasn't moved from that spot since 1988.  So the remaining DT guys are the same as when MP was in DT so saying they don't look like they're having "fun" doesn't work since they look the same.

LOL about the JM comments (because they're so true).  And I'd be hard pressed to find a guy (at least in DT's sub-genre) who looks he's having more fun than JR.  And, yeah, JLB and JP look pretty much the same as they have for the nearly 30 years that I've been following the band.

MM sure seems like he's having fun live.

Yup.  That too.

[Ben_Jamin]

Act of Faythe, I don't have a problem at all with the line "My Music Player."

It fits, and without product placement, what would you have done?

That's one of the best moments on The Astonishing. The music makes you feel just how elated and astonished (couldn't help it) Faythe was when she discovered the music player. Having heard Music other than The NOMACS, it also describes why she fell for Gabriel. Without the Music Player, she wouldn't have fell for him and saved Ravenskill. It's a reason why she is named Faythe.

[bosk1]

Act of Faythe, I don't have a problem at all with the line "My Music Player."

  Why would you?  It's a great moment.

[Ben_Jamin]

Act of Faythe, I don't have a problem at all with the line "My Music Player."

  Why would you?  It's a great moment.

Exactly my point.

I guess it's just the ones who dislike it talking about it more.

[Northern Lion]

Act of Faythe, I don't have a problem at all with the line "My Music Player."

  Why would you?  It's a great moment.

Exactly my point.

I guess it's just the ones who dislike it talking about it more.

I especially like the Peter Cetera part right after that.  One of the several moments that bring me back to the good ol' 80's

[Dream Team]

Not too controversial, but I was just watching the Yellow Matter Custard dvd and it's amazing now natural and good MP is at frontman banter. Nothing awkward or geeky or cheesy or lame. I can kinda see why he felt he needed to be kind of a frontman in DT. James continues to be super awkward after all these years.

[TAC]

Act of Faythe, I don't have a problem at all with the line "My Music Player."

  Why would you?  It's a great moment.

Exactly my point.

I guess it's just the ones who dislike it talking about it more.

I especially like the Peter Cetera part right after that.  One of the several moments that bring me back to the good ol' 80's

Where in the hell is a Peter Cetera moment, because I have never thought at any point "geez, this part blows.".

[Cool Chris]

I especially like the Peter Cetera part right after that.  One of the several moments that bring me back to the good ol' 80's

Where in the hell is a Peter Cetera moment, because I have never thought at any point "geez, this part blows.".

[Northern Lion]

Act of Faythe, I don't have a problem at all with the line "My Music Player."

  Why would you?  It's a great moment.

Exactly my point.

I guess it's just the ones who dislike it talking about it more.

I especially like the Peter Cetera part right after that.  One of the several moments that bring me back to the good ol' 80's

Where in the hell is a Peter Cetera moment, because I have never thought at any point "geez, this part blows.".

  3:37-3:44.  It's the way that James has his voice doubled and the note succession.  It sounds a lot like "The Glory of Love" by Peter Cetera.  At least to me it does.

It's very short, and I don't know if they did it on purpose or not.  But since there are some other 80's music nuggets in the album, I thought that maybe it was.

[Indiscipline]

  3:37-3:44.  It's the way that James has his voice doubled and the note succession.  It sounds a lot like "The Glory of Love" by Peter Cetera.  At least to me it does.

I like you

[Podaar]

  3:37-3:44.  It's the way that James has his voice doubled and the note succession.  It sounds a lot like "The Glory of Love" by Peter Cetera.  At least to me it does.

I like you

It is quite the Indiscipline thing to do, innit!

[Northern Lion]

   Glad I could bring up something of value.

[Podaar]

Brother Lion, if you haven't already you should read Indisciplines Scenes From My Memory thread. He is the timestamp King...or Prince, as it were.

[Elite]

The Enemy Inside is the best song DT have done since Octavarium.

[MoraWintersoul]

You know what, it's up there.

[Revenge319]

The Enemy Inside is the best song DT have done since Octavarium.

Agreed.
Well, I wouldn't call it the best since Octavarium, but overall, it's one of Dream Theater's greater songs. Easily in my Top 30-40. I have no idea why people seem to dislike it so much.

[Northern Lion]

The Enemy Inside is the best song DT have done since Octavarium.

I'm not sure I would go that far, but I agree, it's pretty good.  It took me a while to warm up to it when it first came out, but now I always get excited when it comes on in one of my play lists.  It is definitely a great song!