Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Madman Shepherd]

With the talk of the I&W in the other thread.

I actually quite enjoy the Chris Cintron vocals of A Change of Seasons. There are certain things he does I find quite neat.

I do too. For what it's worth, he had a band called Reckless and if you like some pure 80s rock with a hefty dose of cheese, I highly recommend it. If you can get past lyrics that actually spell out R-O-C-K-N-R-O-L-L, you'll have a lot of fun with this album.

He also has a traditional Spanish acoustic band with his brother. They used to play around New York City a bunch

[pg1067]

With the talk of the I&W in the other thread.

I actually quite enjoy the Chris Cintron vocals of A Change of Seasons. There are certain things he does I find quite neat.

My first thought on reading this yesterday was, "when the hell did Chris Cintron do a version of ACOS?"  I bought the ACOS demos upwards of 7-8 years ago, and I'm not sure I listened to the Cintron version more than once and had forgotten it existed.  I gave it another list this morning, and it's ok (the parts where he harmonizes with himself are good), but there are some cringe-worthy parts.  I also think the vocals are too high in the mix, although that was likely intentional.  It doesn't help that some of the original vocal melody lines were not great and didn't fit the music well.

[bosk1]

This isn't a controversial opinion "on DT," but is DT-related, so:

For my money, I generally prefer to listen to JP solo over LTE.  Not that there aren't some really cool LTE songs.  But I find myself gravitating more to JP solo.

Maybe controversial? 

[Setlist Scotty]

Maybe do a poll to see who agrees? I like JP's solo stuff, but I definitely prefer LTE, especially the written stuff (as opposed to the improvised). To me LTE, is like an instrumental extension of DT. That said, I prefer JP's solo stuff over JR's. For me, the sum is greater than the parts.

[Ben_Jamin]

This isn't a controversial opinion "on DT," but is DT-related, so:

For my money, I generally prefer to listen to JP solo over LTE.  Not that there aren't some really cool LTE songs.  But I find myself gravitating more to JP solo.

Maybe controversial? 

I would agree...

Terminal Velocity is a fantastic album, that showcases JP's different styles, and he puts them in a blender.

LTE was great for what it was. I tend to listen to the live album more than the studio. Although, I do like Liquid Dreams, and Hourglass (I was lucky to be there when JP and JR played this cover).

I honestly would be listening to it more, If I were able to have found a cd of Suspended Animation before it got rereleased with Terminal Velocity. I did like Glassgow Kiss the most, Damaged Controlled was good, as were the ones I did hear when my friend let me borrow his copy. Every time I would listen to a song from SA I would like it and would try and find the album. I didn't want to get it other ways because I like to rip it.

[Dublagent66]

This isn't a controversial opinion "on DT," but is DT-related, so:

For my money, I generally prefer to listen to JP solo over LTE.  Not that there aren't some really cool LTE songs.  But I find myself gravitating more to JP solo.

Maybe controversial? 

Not controversial, but I get it.  JP's solo work is just straight forward and to the point.  There's not a lot of other underlying orchestrations or accompaniments going on to determine how he needs to compliment with his playing.  He just jams with his bass player and drummer doing pretty much do what ever he wants.  It's most likely liberating and refreshing for both the band and the listeners as well.

[Max Kuehnau]

This isn't a controversial opinion "on DT," but is DT-related, so:

For my money, I generally prefer to listen to JP solo over LTE.  Not that there aren't some really cool LTE songs.  But I find myself gravitating more to JP solo.

Maybe controversial? 

Not controversial, but I get it.  JP's solo work is just straight forward and to the point.  There's not a lot of other underlying orchestrations or accompaniments going on to determine how he needs to compliment with his playing.  He just jams with his bass player and drummer doing pretty much do what ever he wants.  It's most likely liberating and refreshing for both the band and the listeners as well.

and then adding in the accessibility and the melodic aspect that is present (and John always has a great penchant for melodies. One aspect I like a lot about him.), which may be your reason for liking John's solo material bosk. Or not.

[gzarruk]

I like JP's solo stuff, but I definitely prefer LTE, especially the written stuff (as opposed to the improvised). To me LTE, is like an instrumental extension of DT.

I'm with Scotty in all of this, specially the bolded. I'm not a huge fan of the LTE improvised stuff, but the written stuff is 

[TAC]

Maybe do a poll to see who agrees? 

BoskRanger!

[ReaperKK]

This isn't a controversial opinion "on DT," but is DT-related, so:

For my money, I generally prefer to listen to JP solo over LTE.  Not that there aren't some really cool LTE songs.  But I find myself gravitating more to JP solo.

Maybe controversial? 

I agree with this. I never clicked with LTE because it was just too much soloing, DT cranked to 11.

[WilliamMunny]

This isn't a controversial opinion "on DT," but is DT-related, so:

For my money, I generally prefer to listen to JP solo over LTE.  Not that there aren't some really cool LTE songs.  But I find myself gravitating more to JP solo.

Maybe controversial? 

I agree with this. I never clicked with LTE because it was just too much soloing, DT cranked to 11.

This. I learned early on that the 'wank-fest' side of DT was not for me. I get it, they are amazing musicians, but at a certain point, it all just becomes a bit too much for me. To that end, LTE has a distinct 'jam' vibe as well, and I hate Jam bands...so JP solo all the way for me.

That all being said, the LTE albums sound amazing coherent for how quickly they were put together...top notch stuff, just not my cup of tea.

[Ben_Jamin]

The way I describe LTE is a mix between Progressive, Blues, Jazz, Metal. The jazz influence is the Improvisation, and way they composed the songs based off of Jams, and can improvise within the songs. The Blues, is in the riffs. The Metal in the tone. And the progressive in the Arrangements, song structure.

[MetropolisWatches]

Systematic Chaos has aged remarkably well, and blows away Black Clouds and Silver Linings (the worst Portnoy-era album).

[gzarruk]

Systematic Chaos has aged remarkably well, and blows away Black Clouds and Silver Linings.

I definitely agree with this.

(the worst Portnoy-era album)

I wouldn't call it the worst MP era album, though, at least WDADU and FII would rank lower for me.

Which leads me to my controversial opinion: I've been recently listening to the DT studio catalog chronologicaly and updating my ranking, and SC just ranked higher than Octavarium.

[Kotowboy]

Not with Repentance and In The Presence of Enemies Part 2....

[TAC]

Part 2 is awesome!

[IDontNotDoThings]

Part 2 is awesome!

But I don't agree that SC is better than BC&SL. It's good, but BC&SL is on a whole other level for me, though I understand that I'm in the minority in having BC&SL among my top DT albums.

[Ben_Jamin]

I appreciate Repentance for what it is, and it's about. It's actually a great song, it reflects the mood of the songs subject.  Having the guests come in and ask for their forgiveness was amazing. And them actually being real ones are even more neat.

[TAC]

I appreciate Repentance for what it is, and it's about. It's actually a great song, it reflects the mood of the songs subject.  Having the guests come in and ask for their forgiveness was amazing. And them actually being real ones are even more neat.

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel.

[bosk1]

Part 2 is awesome!

But I don't agree that SC is better than BC&SL. It's good, but BC&SL is on a whole other level for me, though I understand that I'm in the minority in having BC&SL among my top DT albums.

Well, and see that's the cool thing--this is a band with so much awesome material that you can have such wide-ranging opinions on what people's "favorites" are.  It's cool that something that others may not gravitate as strongly toward is one of your favorites.

I appreciate Repentance for what it is, and it's about. It's actually a great song, it reflects the mood of the songs subject.  Having the guests come in and ask for their forgiveness was amazing. And them actually being real ones are even more neat.

I agree with all of that.  But it's just not a song that I enjoy listening to. 

[darkshade]

Part 2 is awesome!

But I don't agree that SC is better than BC&SL. It's good, but BC&SL is on a whole other level for me, though I understand that I'm in the minority in having BC&SL among my top DT albums.

I think BC&SL is better than SC, I like it a lot more than others do as well. It seems like the entire album gets tons of hate because of 30 seconds in the first track, which is a little hyperbolic, but somewhat true. I think it's a stronger album than many DT fans give it credit for.

[Revenge319]

Part 2 is awesome!

But I don't agree that SC is better than BC&SL. It's good, but BC&SL is on a whole other level for me, though I understand that I'm in the minority in having BC&SL among my top DT albums.

I think BC&SL is better than SC, I like it a lot more than others do as well. It seems like the entire album gets tons of hate because of 30 seconds in the first track, which is a little hyperbolic, but somewhat true. I think it's a stronger album than many DT fans give it credit for.

Black Clouds and Silver Linings is my favorite Dream Theater album (although Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence may surpass it one day).

[Ben_Jamin]

Part 2 is awesome!

But I don't agree that SC is better than BC&SL. It's good, but BC&SL is on a whole other level for me, though I understand that I'm in the minority in having BC&SL among my top DT albums.

Well, and see that's the cool thing--this is a band with so much awesome material that you can have such wide-ranging opinions on what people's "favorites" are.  It's cool that something that others may not gravitate as strongly toward is one of your favorites.

I appreciate Repentance for what it is, and it's about. It's actually a great song, it reflects the mood of the songs subject.  Having the guests come in and ask for their forgiveness was amazing. And them actually being real ones are even more neat.

I agree with all of that.  But it's just not a song that I enjoy listening to.

Yeah me too. This thread made me want to listen to it, and that's what I discovered for myself after.

That could also be why they never played it Live, only that one time.

[Kotowboy]

Well, being me I think Octavarium is a better album than both of them.

[Dedalus]

BC&SL was the album that made me think "OK, DT is done for me". Of course, I did not expect the subsequent dramatic turn of events.

But it's a horrible album. There are only 6 songs, of which I hate 4, don't care about 1 and like only one. And I don't even like it that much.

[pg1067]

Well, being me I think Octavarium is a better album than both of them.

Octavarium is better than SC and BC&SL combined.

[Dedalus]

Well, being me I think Octavarium is a better album than both of them.

Octavarium is better than SC and BC&SL combined.

The song.
You don't even need the other tracks on the disc. 

[geeeemo]

Well, being me I think Octavarium is a better album than both of them.

Octavarium is better than SC and BC&SL combined.

The song.
You don't even need the other tracks on the disc. 

This.

[gzarruk]

Well, being me I think Octavarium is a better album than both of them.

Octavarium is better than SC and BC&SL combined.

The song.
You don't even need the other tracks on the disc. 

Because they aren't that good (except These Walls, I love that one).

[Dedalus]

Well, being me I think Octavarium is a better album than both of them.

Octavarium is better than SC and BC&SL combined.

The song.
You don't even need the other tracks on the disc. 

Because they aren't that good (except These Walls, I love that one).

It's true 

[bosk1]

Part 2 is awesome!

But I don't agree that SC is better than BC&SL. It's good, but BC&SL is on a whole other level for me, though I understand that I'm in the minority in having BC&SL among my top DT albums.

I think BC&SL is better than SC, I like it a lot more than others do as well. It seems like the entire album gets tons of hate because of 30 seconds in the first track, which is a little hyperbolic, but somewhat true. I think it's a stronger album than many DT fans give it credit for.

Coincidentally, I think Nightmare is about 30-45 minutes too long and could benefit from some trimming.  But the 30 second or so that I could do without are not the same 30 second or so that you are thinking. 

[darkshade]

Octavarium is great, and better than SC and BC&SL. Of course the title track is their best but the rest of the album is classic DT with lots of varied material, and the way the songs weave in and out of each other gives the album a unique charm other DT albums lack. I used to not like IWBY but that one warmed up on me over time, but the rest I always thought was strong. Basically it is the last album of that era of the band (IaW through 8vm) Their music changed after that last French horn line in the title song.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Octavarium is better than Images and Words.

[pg1067]

Well, being me I think Octavarium is a better album than both of them.

Octavarium is better than SC and BC&SL combined.

The song.
You don't even need the other tracks on the disc. 

Because they aren't that good (except These Walls, I love that one).

I don't know that I'd go quite so far as to say that the song 8VM > SC + BC&SL, but it's pretty close.

As for the rest of the songs on 8VM, the only ones I don't think are really strong (or better) are IWBY and Never Enough.  The latter is a case of a set of lyrics ruining what might be an otherwise good song.

[Dedalus]

Octavarium is better than Images and Words.

This is mathematically impossible.