Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Podaar]

Actually, he is correct.

[SeRoX]

The Killing Hand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPEcu4NxCYk&ab_channel=AmadeusValle

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

An opinion for the future but I feel the next live DVD will be least favourite among DT fan base.

CIM won't be replaced.

We don't talk about that release here. *Black Panther meme*

[IDontNotDoThings]

An opinion for the future but I feel the next live DVD will be least favourite among DT fan base.

CIM won't be replaced.

We don't talk about that release here. *Black Panther meme*

[Evai]

Meh, it's quite enjoyable as a live CD, lots of interesting changes from the album versions to keep you engaged. James' vocals seemed bad at the time, but compared to the standard set nowadays, they're decent enough

[gzarruk]

An opinion for the future but I feel the next live DVD will be least favourite among DT fan base.

CIM won't be replaced.

We don't talk about that release here. *Black Panther meme*

[Ben_Jamin]

Meh, it's quite enjoyable as a live CD, lots of interesting changes from the album versions to keep you engaged. James' vocals seemed bad at the time, but compared to the standard set nowadays, they're decent enough

I had to search for a copy, but I found one, just for the cd. I enjoyed the many things they did with the songs, and also for the Systematic Chaos songs.

[gzarruk]

Meh, it's quite enjoyable as a live CD, lots of interesting changes from the album versions to keep you engaged. James' vocals seemed bad at the time, but compared to the standard set nowadays, they're decent enough

I had to search for a copy, but I found one, just for the cd. I enjoyed the many things they did with the songs, and also for the Systematic Chaos songs.

I have the DVD but haven't seen it in ages. Might play it later today.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

An opinion for the future but I feel the next live DVD will be least favourite among DT fan base.

CIM won't be replaced.

We don't talk about that release here. *Black Panther meme*

Fyeah, this is the shit

The thing about CiM is that it's very bootleg-ish at best. After two incredibly successful and well produced concert films they really didn't need to pull out another one, and mostly when it was clearly not planned (I have no evidence on this, but basically the montage feels like Portnoy going like: ok boys, let's see what we've got and put it all into one big package). The video is mediocre at best, sound mixing is weird, JLB sounds weird and the overall concept was very ambitious but was not well executed.

The documentary was ace and extremely enjoyable, tho. I really miss that kind of thing in a DT live release.

[Herrick]

An opinion for the future but I feel the next live DVD will be least favourite among DT fan base.

CIM won't be replaced.

We don't talk about that release here. *Black Panther meme*

Fyeah, this is the shit

The thing about CiM is that it's very bootleg-ish at best. After two incredibly successful and well produced concert films they really didn't need to pull out another one, and mostly when it was clearly not planned (I have no evidence on this, but basically the montage feels like Portnoy going like: ok boys, let's see what we've got and put it all into one big package). The video is mediocre at best, sound mixing is weird, JLB sounds weird and the overall concept was very ambitious but was not well executed.

The documentary was ace and extremely enjoyable, tho. I really miss that kind of thing in a DT live release.

If the documentary was as good as the Systematic Chaos one, then Herrick needs to check out Chaos In Motion ASAP.

[IDontNotDoThings]

The thing about CiM is that it's very bootleg-ish at best. After two incredibly successful and well produced concert films they really didn't need to pull out another one, and mostly when it was clearly not planned (I have no evidence on this, but basically the montage feels like Portnoy going like: ok boys, let's see what we've got and put it all into one big package). The video is mediocre at best, sound mixing is weird, JLB sounds weird and the overall concept was very ambitious but was not well executed.

The documentary was ace and extremely enjoyable, tho. I really miss that kind of thing in a DT live release.

If the documentary was as good as the Systematic Chaos one, then Herrick needs to check out Chaos In Motion ASAP.

I'm fairly certain that that is the Systematic Chaos one

[Herrick]

The thing about CiM is that it's very bootleg-ish at best. After two incredibly successful and well produced concert films they really didn't need to pull out another one, and mostly when it was clearly not planned (I have no evidence on this, but basically the montage feels like Portnoy going like: ok boys, let's see what we've got and put it all into one big package). The video is mediocre at best, sound mixing is weird, JLB sounds weird and the overall concept was very ambitious but was not well executed.

The documentary was ace and extremely enjoyable, tho. I really miss that kind of thing in a DT live release.

If the documentary was as good as the Systematic Chaos one, then Herrick needs to check out Chaos In Motion ASAP.

I'm fairly certain that that is the Systematic Chaos one

Aww shit. Chaos in Motion...I get it now. I was thinking it was a documentary for Octavarium.

So is the concert stuff bad quality? Is it worth checking out? I've only ever seen the documentary.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

It's really bootleg-ish. Feels more like one of DT's "official" bootlegs than as a proper and well-produced concert film. It has its charm, but it's been years since I saw it and I haven't had the desire of checking it out ever since.

[Cool Chris]

I remember it came out around the time Within Temptation released Black Symphony, which was a fantastic video. Then months later Maiden released Flight 666. And I thought "c'mon DT, these are quality releases, what the heck are you doing putting out a video like CiM?" 

[Herrick]

It's really bootleg-ish. Feels more like one of DT's "official" bootlegs than as a proper and well-produced concert film. It has its charm, but it's been years since I saw it and I haven't had the desire of checking it out ever since.

I remember it came out around the time Within Temptation released Black Symphony, which was a fantastic video. Then months later Maiden released Flight 666. And I thought "c'mon DT, these are quality releases, what the heck are you doing putting out a video like CiM?"

I see. I'll look on The Tube and see if it's worth checking out the whole concert.

[Ben_Jamin]

Didn't the Record Label want a DVD. So MP had to dig through videos and audio. I remember him saying this due to the differences in the Audio for Blind Faith and Surrounded. The Video is from a different show as that had better video quality and the audio had better audio.

It does have the famous "We're gonna killed up here."

[Cool Chris]

Wow, they said "Hey we want a DVD, so go through all your material, no matter how mediocre it is, and we'll release that, because we ain't filing anything on a proper budget?"

[Architeuthis]

The Killing Hand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPEcu4NxCYk&ab_channel=AmadeusValle

That was painful to watch and listen to.. 

[Architeuthis]

Losing Time / Grand Finale 2020: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCCYVnLBoKA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0dN6dLvB523MT5_thD0U-4LKLihPlwABXqhDGZHbAhsQRDqJ-aHOtoznE&ab_channel=AmadeusValle

This is much better than the Killing Hand one.. 

[Ben_Jamin]

Wow, they said "Hey we want a DVD, so go through all your material, no matter how mediocre it is, and we'll release that, because we ain't filing anything on a proper budget?"

Pretty much, It explains why the videos are bootleg quality. All the behind the scenes videos, were made by MP himself. Remember, MP is also a movie nerd, and doesn't surprise me how much he liked to film, and be on camera.

[Setlist Scotty]

The thing about CiM is that it's very bootleg-ish at best. After two incredibly successful and well produced concert films they really didn't need to pull out another one, and mostly when it was clearly not planned (I have no evidence on this, but basically the montage feels like Portnoy going like: ok boys, let's see what we've got and put it all into one big package).

You're not too far off on your guessing. You are correct in that they originally weren't going to put out a live video release since they had just done L@B and Score (never mind 5YiaL and LSFNY before it with only the SDoIT album cycle not having a live release). But by the end of the tour, MP changed his mind and decided to do a release anyway.

IIRC, a lot of this was due to songs that played on that tour that had not been documented or were significantly different from what had been released on an official live release up to that point - several of which probably would not have gotten cycled back into the master setlist for a number of tours. And of course there were all the SC tracks, too. He had pro-shot video footage of 6 different shows, so he figured he'd put out more of a compilation release similar to 5YiaL rather than not have any sort of official document of that tour at all.

I remember it came out around the time Within Temptation released Black Symphony, which was a fantastic video. Then months later Maiden released Flight 666. And I thought "c'mon DT, these are quality releases, what the heck are you doing putting out a video like CiM?"

Actually MP warned everyone upfront *not* to expect the same quality as what we saw with L@B and Score. So it wasn't as if this was some hidden secret and he was trying to pull the wool over the fans' eyes.

Didn't the Record Label want a DVD. So MP had to dig through videos and audio. I remember him saying this due to the differences in the Audio for Blind Faith and Surrounded. The Video is from a different show as that had better video quality and the audio had better audio.

No - I don't believe the label had anything to do with CiM at all. The differences between the audio for BF and Surrounded were for a completely different reason. MP explained in my interview with him in 2009:

Putting together that set, I had based the song picks on the video footage I had. I looked at what was best represented on video and I picked the Toronto show for Blind Faith and Surrounded. I had my list of all the videos that were being edited for the video and I sent Kevin Shirley the list of what to mix the audio from. And he mixed what we thought was the Toronto show for Blind Faith and Surrounded. We synced it back up to the video, only to find out that it was from a completely different show – somebody sent him the wrong tapes, and we couldn't find the Toronto audio. So the audio for Toronto was missing and here we were with this mixed audio of Blind Faith and Surrounded, and we had no idea what show it was even from. So even to this day, I have no idea of what show those specific performances are from.

Not too long ago, while listening to a bunch of recordings from that tour, I finally figured out that recordings of those songs on CD are actually from the Calgary show on 2008/05/09, so that mystery has been solved. 

[TAC]

CiM is a great package.

[Ben_Jamin]

Didn't the Record Label want a DVD. So MP had to dig through videos and audio. I remember him saying this due to the differences in the Audio for Blind Faith and Surrounded. The Video is from a different show as that had better video quality and the audio had better audio.

No - I don't believe the label had anything to do with CiM at all. The differences between the audio for BF and Surrounded were for a completely different reason. MP explained in my interview with him in 2009:

Putting together that set, I had based the song picks on the video footage I had. I looked at what was best represented on video and I picked the Toronto show for Blind Faith and Surrounded. I had my list of all the videos that were being edited for the video and I sent Kevin Shirley the list of what to mix the audio from. And he mixed what we thought was the Toronto show for Blind Faith and Surrounded. We synced it back up to the video, only to find out that it was from a completely different show – somebody sent him the wrong tapes, and we couldn't find the Toronto audio. So the audio for Toronto was missing and here we were with this mixed audio of Blind Faith and Surrounded, and we had no idea what show it was even from. So even to this day, I have no idea of what show those specific performances are from.

Not too long ago, while listening to a bunch of recordings from that tour, I finally figured out that recordings of those songs on CD are actually from the Calgary show on 2008/05/09, so that mystery has been solved. 

Thanks for that....I wasn't entirely sure either.

I was going to also ask why it wasn't listed on the Box, and it was answered.

Do you know why CiM was done the way it was done?

[Setlist Scotty]

Do you know why CiM was done the way it was done?

What specifically?

[Cool Chris]

I remember it came out around the time Within Temptation released Black Symphony, which was a fantastic video. Then months later Maiden released Flight 666. And I thought "c'mon DT, these are quality releases, what the heck are you doing putting out a video like CiM?"

Actually MP warned everyone upfront *not* to expect the same quality as what we saw with L@B and Score. So it wasn't as if this was some hidden secret and he was trying to pull the wool over the fans' eyes.

I do recall that, and appreciated the honesty from the band. I was just disappointed a bit a guess, and maybe some of that was being spoiled coming on the heels of high quality releases like Budokan and Score.

[Ben_Jamin]

Do you know why CiM was done the way it was done?

What specifically?

Using  the different videos for different songs?

[Setlist Scotty]

Do you know why CiM was done the way it was done?

What specifically?

Using  the different videos for different songs?

Putting together that set, I had based the song picks on the video footage I had. I looked at what was best represented on video and I picked the Toronto show for Blind Faith and Surrounded.

[Cool Chris]

So all this CiM talk prompted me to give it a listen. After a couple songs, the audio is much better than I remembered. I probably dismissed it due to being turned off by the video quality.

[TAC]

It's a really good package. You get the SC tracks..TDEN, ITPOE, TMOLS, plus some other great songs like Scarred, Lines In The Sand (Yay Boston!) and Blind Faith.

Never understood the flak it got.

[wolfking]

It's a really good package. You get the SC tracks..TDEN, ITPOE, TMOLS, plus some other great songs like Scarred, Lines In The Sand (Yay Boston!) and Blind Faith.

Never understood the flak it got.

Same.  I always quite enjoyed it myself.

[Cool Chris]

It's a solid set of songs. Though I remember the medley got slammed pretty hard by a vocal anti-medley contingent as well.

As I said, I was disappointed in the video quality; with limited funds, I opted to not buy it in favor of what I considered superior releases. Looking back, I think I also didn't care for it not being from one show. I know Flight 666 wasn't either, but there was a uniformity all the footage, and coupled with the awesomeness of that release, I guess that made it a non-issue.

And I already had three great videos (Live Scenes, Budokan, and Score) for my DT viewing pleasure.

[TAC]

The thing about the video is that for the Boston songs, it was basically the in house video feed that showed on the screens on each side of the stage. I love that footage.


Count me in as part of the anti Medley faction. To me, that was just a head start to get out of the parking lot.

[Herrick]

The thing about the video is that for the Boston songs, it was basically the in house video feed that showed on the screens on each side of the stage. I love that footage.


Count me in as part of the anti Medley faction. To me, that was just a head start to get out of the parking lot.

I don't like medleys either. I'd rather hear the songs in their entirety. BUTT I bet medleys are pretty fun to hear it when you're there at a concert.

[Setlist Scotty]

I'm the opposite - I do like medleys, especially when they're really well constructed. The Instrumedley is one of the best ones, IMO. DT has had some good ones. Schmedley Wilcox was good, altho it didn't flow quite as smoothly during some of the transitions. But one thing I thought that was cool regarding that medley was that MP took all the semi-epic closing songs and put them all together.

[Cool Chris]

I'm the opposite - I do like medleys, especially when they're really well constructed. The Instrumedley is one of the best ones, IMO. DT has had some good ones. Schmedley Wilcox was good, altho it didn't flow quite as smoothly during some of the transitions. But one thing I thought that was cool regarding that medley was that MP took all the semi-epic closing songs and put them all together.

The Instrumedley is awesome, except I didn't know LTE at the time, so was pretty confused as to what the hell they were playing for a couple minutes. I still would rather it have been LTE-free but it doesn't ruin it for me.

And yes they (Mike) did a good job constructing the Wilcox based on the song selections and what he was shooting for.