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DREAM THEATER RELEASES TRAILER FOR NEW DVD, BLU-RAY, CD

Started by Weymolith, February 01, 2013, 01:12:25 PM

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TheAtliator

Quote from: rumborak on May 26, 2013, 03:57:51 PM
Quote from: Labrie1984 on May 26, 2013, 09:57:08 AM
I fully agree with you. James' vocals sounded terrible in Chaos in Motion. Too much processing. His performance don't need to be touched at all. I want it to be natural. His voice is beautiful and recovered nowadays

I'm pretty sure they will have made an A/B comparison, meaning the untouched original will have been worse than the processed version.

If they would have made an A/B comparison, they would have chosen the original. Maybe they did, but one stupid guy chose B or something.

Quote from: rumborak on May 26, 2013, 04:06:23 PM
I think what some people here attribute to an overactive autotuner is in fact James just being all over the place.

I study James LaBrie's voice all day every day. I've slowed down recordings to like 20% and listened to the attacks on each note, attempted to sing many DT songs myself, watched his movements for subtleties on stage, and compared different nights and different years, so I assure you I know what I'm talking about when it comes to his voice. There are many things he does that I hate, and many mistakes he's made that I think were out of laziness, but THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE of this whole DVD is definitely the post-production that is the problem.

wasteland

My theory regarding CiM has always been: bad recording techniques + selected bad nights + tour with more than a few vocal shortcomings

Labrie1984

His singing performance on A dramatic tour of events has been a lot better than the systematic chaos one but...He didn't sound as bad as the videos from that DVD show. However, I admit that he sounded more nasal on that tour. His vocal coach has provided James with awesome vocal techniques and nowadays I think his performances are mostly incredible. His voice cooperates (as he usually says)

TheAtliator

Quote from: wasteland on May 26, 2013, 04:13:35 PM
My theory regarding CiM has always been: bad recording techniques + selected bad nights + tour with more than a few vocal shortcomings

Those three things are true but even combined are less than half of the problem. I know how the man sings, and the nasal sound and bad notes are a result of terrible things that were added. The sad thing is that without studying it carefully, one could very easily think it was just James not performing well.

rumborak

No offense dude, but come across a bit "you guys know jack shit, only I have insight". We have ears too, you know.

TheAtliator

Quote from: rumborak on May 26, 2013, 04:23:01 PM
No offense dude, but come across a bit "you guys know jack shit, only I have insight". We have ears too, you know.

Sorry, I can see how I might sound like that. I hope you know I don't mean it in an insulting way, but this is just one topic I'm just really really sure about. I'll try in the future to not come across that way.

Labrie1984

I think James has gained a lot of strengh in his voice. His singing is more powerful when releasing the note. I've realised that he uses more his body depending on the vocal effort he has to make.

Perpetual Change

JLB is a 50 y/o heavy metal vocalist.

Just find it appropriate that I remind this thread of that lol

Labrie1984

I'm a 29 year old heavy metal fan and I would like to sing now as a 50 year old singer called James Labrie does. I love singing but I stop trying DT songs. They're very complicated for most of mortals.

TheAtliator

yup^ It's pretty incredible what the man accomplishes. And he takes very good care of his voice too with healthy technique, unlike many.

DarkLord_Lalinc

The only thing we can be sure of is that CiM contains the worst live material that DT has put out. I understand MP's "I want the fans to have a live version of every DT song there is..." vision, but I don't want to sacrifice quality for quantity.

TheAtliator

Quote from: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 26, 2013, 07:29:40 PM
I understand MP's "I want the fans to have a live version of every DT song there is..." vision, but

That'd be pretty awesome!! And it's still totally possible!

GasparXR

Quote from: 6degrmatichaosonaxmasmorn on May 26, 2013, 08:05:47 PM
Quote from: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 26, 2013, 07:29:40 PM
I understand MP's "I want the fans to have a live version of every DT song there is..." vision, but

That'd be pretty awesome!! And it's still totally possible!

It is, at least for ones that they will play. Let's list all the ones that have appeared in the official live albums and videos (not counting CiM and counting the upcoming release):

Another Won

A Fortune in Lies
The Ytse Jam
Another Hand/The Killing Hand
Afterlife
Only a Matter of Time

ALL OF IMAGES AND WORDS

To Live Forever

6:00
Caught in a Web
Innocence Faded
Erotomania
Voices
The Silent Man
The Mirror
Lie
Lifting Shadows Off a Dream
Scarred

A Change of Seasons

Raise the Knife
Speak to Me
Cover My Eyes

New Millennium
Peruvian Skies
Hollow Years
Burning My Soul
Hell's Kitchen (partial in Instrumedley)
Lines in the Sand
Take Away My Pain
Anna Lee
Trial of Tears

ALL OF METROPOLIS PT. 2

Disappear
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
(I'd like to add :( to this lack of official SDOIT releases)

As I Am
This Dying Soul
Endless Sacrifice
Vacant
Stream of Consciousness
In the Name of God

The Root of All Evil
The Answer Lies Within
These Walls
I Walk Beside You
Sacrificed Sons
Octavarium

The Dark Eternal Night

NONE OF BLACK CLOUDS & SILVER LININGS

ALL OF A DRAMATIC TURN OF EVENTS

We have quite the collection here. We should all be grateful for the amount of official live material we have, let alone how much of their discography has been played.

TheAtliator

Now make a list that includes Japan, Bucharest, When Dream and Day Reunite, Chile, Romavarium, and a hopeful future release from July 2011, which are (and one would be) perfect quality "official bootlegs".

edit: actually, are all of those official bootlegs?

DebraKadabra

Quote from: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 26, 2013, 07:29:40 PM
The only thing we can be sure of is that CiM contains the worst live material that DT has put out. I understand MP's "I want the fans to have a live version of every DT song there is..." vision, but I don't want to sacrifice quality for quantity.

Amen to that! :clap:

TheAtliator


Meatrose

Quote from: 6degrmatichaosonaxmasmorn on May 26, 2013, 09:54:43 PM
The only thing I hope is that the DVD captures the intro of the concert as well as these two videos do-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT14yJxaTWY&list=UUzRymWJauSC9bPFqZrW3e8A&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUFNyJUDDaw&list=UUzRymWJauSC9bPFqZrW3e8A&index=5

The first 35 seconds of the 2nd video... :O

The sad part is that they had to dub over the intro due to copyright reasons (or something like that). They couldn't leave "Dream Is Collapsing" on the DVD/BD which is a real shame cause in my opinion it was probably the strongest "gig-opener" they've used so far.

Jaq

I enjoyed that intro when I saw it live, but I knew there was no way in hell they'd spring for the rights to use Dream Is Collapsing for any DVD release. But man, that was awesome to see live  :metal

ariich

Quote from: wasteland on May 26, 2013, 04:04:30 PM
Quote from: rumborak on May 26, 2013, 03:57:51 PM
Quote from: Labrie1984 on May 26, 2013, 09:57:08 AM
I fully agree with you. James' vocals sounded terrible in Chaos in Motion. Too much processing. His performance don't need to be touched at all. I want it to be natural. His voice is beautiful and recovered nowadays

I'm pretty sure they will have made an A/B comparison, meaning the untouched original will have been worse than the processed version.

The bootlegs from that tour sound positively better. It could be an instance of "wishful blanks-filling", but it could also mean that he did sound better than he appears on CiM.
He was inconsistent on the CIM tour, as far as I remember. He'd recovered by Octavarium, was on and off for SC, and then has been on good form again since BC&SL. So no, not all of his performances would have been great.

I agree with Rumby, they'll have made a comparison and gone with the best one.

Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on May 10, 2023, 05:59:19 PMAriich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
Quote from: TAC on December 21, 2023, 06:05:15 AMI be am boner inducing.

hefdaddy42

Quote from: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2014, 08:19:46 PMHef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Nihil-Morari

Plus, pitch correction is not like turning a switch on or off for an entire performance. Some people on this page made it sound like that.

wolfking


wasteland

Maybe he likes it. Or maybe he's a singer trying to get some insights or techniques from a highly successful vocalist whose style he greatly admires! That would be cool, actually  :)

hefdaddy42

Quote from: wasteland on May 27, 2013, 04:18:35 AM
Maybe he likes it. Or maybe he's a singer trying to get some insights or techniques from a highly successful vocalist whose style he greatly admires! That would be cool, actually  :)
All day every day?
Quote from: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2014, 08:19:46 PMHef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Bertielee

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on May 27, 2013, 04:32:05 AM
Quote from: wasteland on May 27, 2013, 04:18:35 AM
Maybe he likes it. Or maybe he's a singer trying to get some insights or techniques from a highly successful vocalist whose style he greatly admires! That would be cool, actually  :)
All day every day?

All day everyday? Now, who can be so OBSESSED as to study something on that basis? It's rather compulsive if you ask me. WHO can it be? Wait a minute...Isn't it MP?!?!? :biggrin:

B.Lee

TheAtliator

The answer is that I am a musician, singer, songwriter/composer, and I've never really even considered doing something else in my life than music. For a man with a regularly pitched voice, it is incredibly hard to sing, a million times harder than it looks, in the range of most rock songs, especially when my voice is just now done changing, at least for a while. JLB is my favorite vocalist so what Wasteland said is pretty much it.

Imitating James, Tommy Shaw, Dennis DeYoung, James Young, Mike Portnoy, Lawrence Gowan, Russel Allen, and Bruce Dickonson often helps me create technique for hitting different notes and different types of phrases. JLB being the most versatile, partially because the obvious, and partially because he sounds drastically different from some years to others.

Also, my school is online, so if I'm taking a 5 minute break it's really easy (a little too easy) to go to YouTube and watch Dream Theater and then get addicted to trying to see the difference between every freaking performance of 6:00 on the Dramatic Tour of events, and then end up doing it for much longer than 5 minutes.

No, it's not like I literally watch YouTube, write on DTF, and never do anything else with my life. It's more like I do these things to fuel what I do productively for the rest of the day.


Quote from: Nihil-Morari on May 27, 2013, 02:39:55 AM
Plus, pitch correction is not like turning a switch on or off for an entire performance. Some people on this page made it sound like that.

On CiM it was, or at least for the most part.

Nihil-Morari


Nihil-Morari

I'm not trying to be blunt, but have you ever seen the way vocals are processed in the studio? Since you're a musician I guess you have. I'm not a producer myself, but I do know how pitch correction works. I've been in several studio's, I've done little projects myself, and like I said, pitch correction isn't one mega switch that makes everything sound different. And even if they've found a way of doing that, that hasn't been done to CiM.

KevShmev

Quote from: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 26, 2013, 07:29:40 PM
The only thing we can be sure of is that CiM contains the worst live material that DT has put out. I understand MP's "I want the fans to have a live version of every DT song there is..." vision, but I don't want to sacrifice quality for quantity.

Hopefully, in the future, when deciding on set lists for future video releases, they take into account that songs from that particular release still need good versions.  It is a shame that classics like Lines in the Sand, Scarred and Blind Faith can only be found on Chaos in Motion (when talking about officially released live DVDs/Blu-Rays, not counting the ytsejam releases).  Those need to be on future releases so we can get good live versions of them.

DarkLord_Lalinc

There are vastly superior versions of Scarred, Lines in the Sand and Blind Faith found in the Bucharest bootleg; which is kind of sad considering CiM is an official release.

TheAtliator

Quote from: Nihil-Morari on May 27, 2013, 08:14:54 AM
no it wasn't

Listen to the first verse of Panic Attack. Of all things in a DT show, James would not be off pitch during that verse. On the word "grow" (choking me, worries grow), he says more of a "growaah" and the ahh is tuned back up to the Eb that the phrase starts on. Clearly when he sang that, he did not do that live. The "wha" would have just been sliding upwards a little for emotional effect and it would sound natural. The auto tune took out the emotion and made it sound weird and unnatural.

If the auto tune was selectively put on, this part would have been left out. Listening to the rest of the song, the auto tune remains on like a switch the entire song, and you can tell it was not the kind where they went through each note in the studio, because some of the notes are even tuned to the wrong pitch.

TheAtliator

Also this isn't even addressing the fact that the voice sounds like it's coming through a telephone answering machine and making people think James' voice is just that nasally, which it's not. I could literally make a clearer recording of vocals in Garage Band with a $30 mic. I actually just did yesterday.

Jaq

You know that "I have knowledge, you guys don't!" attitude you apologized for having a few posts back?

You're doing it again. 

Also, as an aside: what the blue hell is up with your screen name? I've been going to internet forums for ages, used to admin on a few between 2000-2005, and I've never seen someone with a screen name that breaks the site formatting.  :lol

DTFan0789

Considering that this Blu-ray was basically going to be the only thing that was going to get me through my summer, I'm mighty pissed about this whole situation.


TheAtliator

Quote from: Jaq on May 27, 2013, 08:53:13 AM
You know that "I have knowledge, you guys don't!" attitude you apologized for having a few posts back?

You're doing it again. 

Also, as an aside: what the blue hell is up with your screen name? I've been going to internet forums for ages, used to admin on a few between 2000-2005, and I've never seen someone with a screen name that breaks the site formatting.  :lol

No attitude here, just backing up every statement I make with facts and and tons of proof.

;D hahaha I love my screen name  :biggrin: