Dream Theater self titled album discussion - [SPOILER FREE DISCUSSION ONLY]

[Outcrier]

ACOS would have turned in a 6-10 minute song?

[aprilethereal]

See, I would consider OTBOA heavy.  It's not their heaviest song, but it's got its share of E-string plam muting and double bass, and it's mostly a song driven by distorted guitar.

So according to you, every song with palm mutes and distorted guitar is heavy?

it's on the heavier side.  I think it's a good song, though.

I don't get this. Do you think that normally, heavier songs can't be good songs?

I don't have a problem with their heavy stuff per se--after all, it was Lie that got me into the band.  I got a 7-string Ibanez 15 years ago because of that song and Caught in a Web.  But there's no non-ballad song on this album that doesn't still rely heavily on palm-muted guitar and double bass.  That's common for DT ever after Falling Into Infinity.  But listen to Trial of Tears, Lifting Shadows, Surrounded, SDV, LTL, and most of Scarred...you can go almost the entire song without hearing a palm-muted E-string.

Could you please tell me what kind of problem you have with palm muted E-strings

[Outcrier]

Means he wants a prog DT with doses of metal instead of a metal DT with doses of prog 

[TheGreatPretender]

Means he wants a prog DT with doses of metal instead of a metal DT with doses of prog 

To be fair though, DT has jumped back and forth through their career. Awake was full of muted strings, right? It had a very heavy metal edge to it.
Lately, it seems like they've had a string of albums, being metal DT with doses of prog. It would be nice if they went back and forth every once in a while. Nothing wrong with making a softer album once in a while.

[Outcrier]

Dreamnation? 

[aprilethereal]

More like Dreatershed if we are talking about prog with doses of metal

[Outcrier]

Speaking seriously now, i would like more songs in the vein of Take The Time, Lines In The Sand and Blind Faith (more rock than metal)

[Zydar]

My interest in metal music has diminished over recent years (it's probably at an all time low right now) so personally I wouldn't mind less metal and more prog. But that's just me.

[TheGreatPretender]

I love their metal side. But album to album contrast is important, and I think if they did make a softer, more melodic album (let's say DT13) then it would be much more refreshing, and then if they went back to metal after something like that, I think the contrast would make it much more interesting.
But they're just going to do whatever feels more natural and what they're most passionate about, so it doesn't matter what we say.

[noxon]

ACOS was written long before James was even in the band, and was supposed to be on Images & Words, but was cut by record company in addition to the fact that CD's at that time had a limitation of about 74 minutes or so - meaning they would've had to cut 3-4 minutes from the song that was about 19 minutes long at the time.

Of course, it turned out to be for the better, as the stuff they did polish was mostly for the better...

[TheGreatPretender]

ACOS is its own stand alone EP. That's all it needs to be.

[The Stray Seed]

I&W is the definition of perfection on my dictionary. It created my idea of musical perfection. For this reason I would change nothing of it.

[TheGreatPretender]

I&W is the definition of perfection on my dictionary. It created my idea of musical perfection. For this reason I would change nothing of it.

That's how I feel about SFAM.

[BlobVanDam]

I&W is the definition of perfection on my dictionary. It created my idea of musical perfection. For this reason I would change nothing of it.

That's how I feel about SFAM.

They're both damn near perfect albums.

[BlackInk]

That's sadly not how I see any album ever. Especially not DT's. Six Degrees may be the closest but it has it's obvious flaws as well.

[The Stray Seed]

I&W is the definition of perfection on my dictionary. It created my idea of musical perfection. For this reason I would change nothing of it.

That's how I feel about SFAM.

They're both damn near perfect albums.

They even volountarily put a flaw in it as they were scared by its flawlessness. (=D)

[Kotowboy]

I'm a drummer & I love Images & Words but the busy drumming and snare sound don't really do it for me.

[Zydar]

I&W is the definition of perfection on my dictionary. It created my idea of musical perfection. For this reason I would change nothing of it.

That's how I feel about SFAM.

They're both damn near perfect albums.

Aussie Osbourne knows the deal

[Viking of the Sagas]

I'm a drummer & I love Images & Words but the busy drumming and snare sound don't really do it for me.

I agree, it sounds so hectic and busy at times you don't really get the chance to get in the groove. The sound needs to be a little more free, the snare has to have a 'ring' to it in my ears, I loved when they did that in SDOIT, Octavarium.

[Öxölklöfför]

I'm a drummer & I love Images & Words but the busy drumming and snare sound don't really do it for me.

...and this is one of many evidences of that DT's diversity also is there biggest 'flaw'. When I heard I&W for the first time, the snare sound and the busy drumming were two of the wow-factors for me. For a guy that grew up on Metallica and Guns N' Roses, this music was so different...add the fact that my interest for guitar playing peaked at that time, and you'll understand my love for that album :-) .

My opinion? I wish that DT only used heaviness "when needed", not as a fundamental part of their music. Much like I&W. So many other bands does heavy, but DT can do so much more...

With that said, I think I'll get my fair share of what I wish for on the new album, even if it's supposed to be quite heavy ;-)

[aprilethereal]

SFAM is perfect in my opinion, 8VM comes pretty close.


And what's up with all that heaviness bashing lately

[BlobVanDam]

SFAM is perfect in my opinion, 8VM comes pretty close.


And what's up with all that heaviness bashing lately

Lately? It's always been like this from my observation.

[JPX]

That's sadly not how I see any album ever. Especially not DT's. Six Degrees may be the closest but it has it's obvious flaws as well.

I'm curious as to what the "obvious flaws" are, that aren't based on your own opinion.

[Eldomm]

That's sadly not how I see any album ever. Especially not DT's. Six Degrees may be the closest but it has it's obvious flaws as well.

I'm curious as to what the "obvious flaws" are, that aren't based on your own opinion.

  Overture?

[Whatsername]

Aw, I really like Overture actually.

[Eldomm]

Aw, I really like Overture actually.

I would have liked it a ton more if it were played with the whole band and not almost 100% with keyboard sounds. To my ears it sounds too ...fake?

[Whatsername]

I'm glad I can't pick up on these kinds of things. It doesn't sound fake to me, and I think it's an awesome and anthemic opening to the piece of music that really sold me on Dream Theater. (Maybe that's the key right there--it's super nostalgic for me so I'll overlook its flaws?)

[OsMosis2259]

That's sadly not how I see any album ever. Especially not DT's. Six Degrees may be the closest but it has it's obvious flaws as well.

I'm curious as to what the "obvious flaws" are, that aren't based on your own opinion.

The outro to Misunderstood comes to mind.

[Whatsername]

Yeah the outro to Misunderstood is definitely not my favorite. I always have to skip it before that weird warping sound because it hits a certain pitch or something that actually hurts in my ears. It's a shame because I love the song apart from that and I'd like to like the whole song.

[BlobVanDam]

If these are the closest to "flaws" SDOIT has, it's no wonder it's their best album.

[The Stray Seed]

I love Overture and I really like the outro to Misunderstood. Would never call those flaws.

Edit: sort of myung'd by Blob. =]

[ariich]

If these are the closest to "flaws" SDOIT has, it's no wonder it's their best album.

This.

Although I do agree that the keyboard orchestral sounds in Overture are a little bit lame, but they're not that terrible, and it's still a fun opening movement. For me it's the weakest part of the album, but that's not saying much because the album is amazing.

[Lucidity]

I loooove Overture. Possibly Top 20.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

That album was made in 2001. MIDI and keyboard samples have come a long way since then.

[liran95]

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