Is it appropriate...

[gmillerdrake]

...for a Business Professional woman to dress in a manner where her cleavage is the 'main' thing that stands out about her? I'm serious. I fully expect the Junior High humor that I love about DTF to surface in this thread, but at the same time I'm totally interested in finding out opinions on this.

  I had a fairly important meeting today in which we were making decisions on a $50 plus million dollars Medical Office Building...and one of the members of the Core Team literally was wearing a top where her boobs were bursting out. Bursting. Begging to be let free and they were saying "hi" to everyone. It was impossible to look in her direction and not be distracted for two reasons... ha ha, not those two reasons...but first the concentration it took NOT to look required so much attention that I have no idea of anything she said. Second, when that concentrattion failed....and it did several times....I was consumed by worry that I was busted checking her rack out. And her position is very important so it's not like she's a college intern. There is no way she left the house not knowing her boobs were out there like that or that she didn't want people to look. They were just...right there...

  My job requires a lot if meetings and I've noticed this isn't an isolated event. There are quite a few Businees Professional women who are showing off the goods. I'm just curious as to how appropriate it is. There is a young woman in my office who was found 'waiting tables' by a Senior staff member and pushed through HR despite their reservations and she consistently dresses less than Professional, sometimes it's uncomfortable actually. But nothing is said.
  Just curious as to what everyone's opinion is?

[Dark Castle]

While I'm very rebellious regarding how I'm dictated to look(hairwise, facialhairwise, tattoos), I believe in dressing professionally, and I don't think that's professional at all, if it causes a distraction at the workplace then it's not professional in my book.

[Chino]

I wear dress pants that make my dick look huge, so I guess it's okay.

[sueño]

While I'm very rebellious regarding how I'm dictated to look(hairwise, facialhairwise, tattoos), I believe in dressing professionally, and I don't think that's professional at all, if it causes a distraction at the workplace then it's not professional in my book.

^^^This.

Not only is it non- professional for herself personally, but as a possible/probable mentor for other women at her job, she is setting a bad example.

Nice narrative, though, GMD. 

[sueño]

Missed this, I guess:

There is a young woman in my office who was found 'waiting tables' by a Senior staff member and pushed through HR despite their reservations and she consistently dresses less than Professional, sometimes it's uncomfortable actually. But nothing is said.

Are you saying that a woman got a job recommended by a Senior staff member because she dresses provocatively?

Perhaps she's not only working your office...and forgive me, but that's the impression she could be giving off whether it's true or not.     But, it worked for her so she may not really care right now.

[gmillerdrake]

Missed this, I guess:

There is a young woman in my office who was found 'waiting tables' by a Senior staff member and pushed through HR despite their reservations and she consistently dresses less than Professional, sometimes it's uncomfortable actually. But nothing is said.

Are you saying that a woman got a job recommended by a Senior staff member because she dresses provocatively?

Perhaps she's not only working your office...and forgive me, but that's the impression she could be giving off whether it's true or not.     But, it worked for her so she may not really care right now.

It's a very 'odd' situation. I've spoken with her partner (we are assigned teams of two) and he explicitly tells me he has no idea what she does. Meaning, she rarely produces actual work. She is very close with several supervisors and it just appears she doesn't 'do' a whole lot.
  Until her actions directly affect me.... Meaning she gets a promotion over me or something along those lines... I try not to even concern myself with her. I just feel bad for her partner because he's in a real tough spot. He can't really complain because the guy he'd complain to is the same guy who got her hired.
  I have felt uneasy several times with her outfits. Very low cut with nothing left to the imagination. I can't believe she's not been spoken to about it. Maybe she has but nothing has changed. I know it's the 'guy' thing I guess to 'like' when girls dress like that but me... I get uncomfortable. I do what I can to battle the flesh and walk the fine line of admiring a woman's beauty rather than all out lusting for her. I just don't like to toe that line consistently...it's not for me which has a lot more to do with things that have happened to me in my life. I have some issues.... But don't we all?

[Nel_Annette]

Bursting. Begging to be let free and they were saying "hi" to everyone

Do go on. 

[eric42434224]

But is she hot, and are her titties nice?  I mean, that is the real question here on whether it is appropriate or not.

[Zook]

yeah, if she's ugly she needs to cover that shit up amirite?

[Chino]

I want to know why you didn't claim to be taking a selfie while sneaking a pic of her bewbsh

[Zook]

If she's wearing something that's making her tits burst out, she's doing it on purpose because she wants the attention.

Is it appropriate in a work environment, not really, but DO WANT.

[rumborak]

My previous company's HR department was a freaking bordello, seriously. One of them was sitting behind this counter, and knowing that people were looking downward when they were standing at the counter, she only wore the most provocative boob-showing clothes. One year the company organized a ski trip and we got stuck in a blizzard and couldn't return to Boston that night. Well, said women didn't want to stick around, so her solution was to go to the next bar, hook up with some random dude and then have him drive her through the blizzard.
The rest of the HR team wasn't much better. The VP of HR once appeared in what can only be described as lingerie at a company meeting.

[hefdaddy42]

Depending on the build, it can be tough.  I mean, I am all for well-tailored suits that leave no doubt as to the femininity of the owner, and tight sweaters are my jam.

But actually having the girls on display is something I generally frown upon.  While staring.

[sueño]

It's a very 'odd' situation. I've spoken with her partner (we are assigned teams of two) and he explicitly tells me he has no idea what she does. Meaning, she rarely produces actual work. She is very close with several supervisors and it just appears she doesn't 'do' a whole lot.
  Until her actions directly affect me.... Meaning she gets a promotion over me or something along those lines... I try not to even concern myself with her. I just feel bad for her partner because he's in a real tough spot. He can't really complain because the guy he'd complain to is the same guy who got her hired.
  I have felt uneasy several times with her outfits. Very low cut with nothing left to the imagination. I can't believe she's not been spoken to about it. Maybe she has but nothing has changed. I know it's the 'guy' thing I guess to 'like' when girls dress like that but me... I get uncomfortable. I do what I can to battle the flesh and walk the fine line of admiring a woman's beauty rather than all out lusting for her. I just don't like to toe that line consistently...it's not for me which has a lot more to do with things that have happened to me in my life. I have some issues.... But don't we all?

Not all like to admit it...or would be as respectful to their wife as you are being.  I think it's admirable.

It's rough, I'm sure.  What's worse, these are the type liable to accuse men of harrassment or discrimination if they feel things aren't going their way.

The only way to address it is if you could speak to a female HR person.  Who is senior...and doesn't have her goods on display.   Otherwise, keep your head down.   

[Perpetual Change]

I work in a pretty conservative place, but there's a financial firm on the floor right above us, and I can not believe what the ladies I see coming out of there look like.

[jingle.boy]

Everybody reports to, and is accountable to, someone.  If it makes you uncomfortable, it's definitely something to bring up to HR.  It's like reverse sexual harassment.  If HR is like rumby's crew... like I said, everyone reports to someone.  It's completely unprofessional, however voicing it yourself could get it turned into a sexual accusation against you.  We had that situation with a younger/junior rep a few years ago.  Her boss being male, had to have the conversation with HR in the room so that nothing inappropriate was said.  Fortunately, our HR rep is completely professional in this regards, and was completely on board.

There's nothing with showing off the female form (as Hef says), and frankly society accepts a little cleavage.  However, the picture you describe is beyond business acceptable.  Someone needs to speak with her.

[gmillerdrake]

Everybody reports to, and is accountable to, someone.  If it makes you uncomfortable, it's definitely something to bring up to HR.  It's like reverse sexual harassment.  If HR is like rumby's crew... like I said, everyone reports to someone.  It's completely unprofessional, however voicing it yourself could get it turned into a sexual accusation against you.  We had that situation with a younger/junior rep a few years ago.  Her boss being male, had to have the conversation with HR in the room so that nothing inappropriate was said.  Fortunately, our HR rep is completely professional in this regards, and was completely on board.

There's nothing with showing off the female form (as Hef says), and frankly society accepts a little cleavage.  However, the picture you describe is beyond business acceptable.  Someone needs to speak with her.

I don't know if I'm at the point of involving HR just yet. I try to limit our encounters and when we do speak it is fairly generic conversation and doesn't last long. I'd prefer just to deal with it for the time being. Like I said, until her actions or the way she carries herself directly affects me professionally I think I'll just stay the course.
  I'm not exaggerating though, this isn't a case of some cleavage. It's an awkward amount of cleavage. She is younger so maybe that's just the way it is...but I can't imagine it's not on purpose. Like the lady who attended the meeting today. She wanted people to look at her boobs. Which I'm sure happened. A lot.

[Ħ]

Depends on the job.

[sueño]

Here's something to try, should you be so inclined.  Approach this from the angle of expressing concern.

A couple of years ago, I worked at a fairly conservative company.  Over 100 years old, just barely into the computer age in 2010! Jeans only on Fridays.  However, there was an admin there who had several piercings, including one in her tongue.She also had visible tattoos.  She was mid 20s, hard-working, enthusiastic and very pretty.     Her grooming was at odds with what you'd expect for the company but she was anything but slutty.

She started making strides in her work and wanted to move into sales.  Also interesting because the customer base was also rather conservative and now she'd be "out there".  But she was good, bright...and did I say pretty?

Anyway, everything was cool 'til she went to a regional sales meeting out of state.  Most of the salesmen were --you guessed it-- men, and when they all returned, one of the female managers confided in me that some of the men had been making lewd statements about the admin, wondering what she could do with that bar in her tongue and so on. 

The manager didn't want to say anything one way or the other (but she could gossip to me  ).  The admin was young enough to be my daughter and I hated to think of her beginning this new direction in her career with that nonsense.   So, I spoke to an HR person...not complaining but letting it be known what was being said and how maybe the admin could be kindly taken aside and advised.  The HR person thanked me, she did have a chat with the young lady and adjustments were made with little embarrassment.

In your case, it sounds obvious the women know what they're doing.  That's too bad.  But by playing the "concerned big brother", you may help correct the situation, deflect any negative attention you might get, and you've also mentally reinforced your own resolve to think chaste thoughts.   

[eric42434224]

All of you giving advice or strategies in order to "correct" this issue should be ashamed of yourselves.  Turn in your man cards and accept your perm ban.  Whats next....."You should go to HR and talk to them about Timmy bringing in Bacon to work".
Its all fun and games until a hottie is made to put away her sweater puppies.

[Podaar]

Here's what Lauren Conrad has to say on the subject: https://laurenconrad.com/blog/post/work-it-9-to-5-style

Thou shalt never let your outfit outshine your work. (Yes, creatives and fashionistas, this applies to you as well!)
Thou shalt abstain from clothing with obnoxious logos. (Besides Bebe logo tops being so 1999, no one wants a walking billboard in their office.)
You shall avoid all sexy and revealing clothing. Never show more than 1 inch of cleavage or wear a skirt that skims your bum. For most offices, skirts that hit more than 3 or 4 inches above the knee are considered inappropriate (If you want to wear shorter skirts, or even dress shorts, pair them with opaque tights to temper the higher hemline). Also, no tank tops unless you have something layered over it to cover your shoulders.
Thou shalt not wear any ripped, torn, or sloppy clothing. This includes anything that can be worn to the gym or the beach (gym shoes and flip-flops etc.).
Thou shalt dress like my female boss. If you do not have a female boss, emulate the highest-ranking female in your company. This doesn't mean steal her style. Rather, base your office attire on what she considers appropriate. Is she casual? Always dresses to the nines? Take a cue from the people in positions you aspire to have someday. They don't say, "dress the part" for no reason.
You shall always dress to impress–even on "casual Fridays."Â� Don't let casual Fridays fool you. Jeans may be okay, but that old tee reserved for lazy Sundays and those hot pink flip-flops are just not going to cut it... Casual Friday attire should be based on your weekly work wear, but taken down a few notches.
Thou shalt not don underwear as outerwear. Ever. This is pretty self-explanatory...
You shall always use your best judgment. Consider your work environment and dress accordingly.

I'm concerned for the woman in your office only because she may be limiting her own potential and minimizing her contributions by drawing undue attention to her physicality. There may be some real self-esteem issues at play here or just plain lack of social awareness.

Now that being said, it would certainly be helpful (to everyone) if we men would leave our libidos at home and truly see people in the work place on the basis of their value to the team. There are solutions to this problem but in my mind they are unacceptable.

[Orbert]

Eric has it.  Hell no, it's not appropriate.  Anything that blatant and distracting is not professional.

So just enjoy the view and keep quiet.  Don't spoil it for the rest of us.

[jasc15]

:waits for Jackie:

[Orbert]

Why?  What's she wearing?

[bosk1]

Why?  What's she wearing?

 

[aprilethereal]

I agree with everybody saying that it's inappropriate because, well, it is. It's just not really helpful to be "distracted" in a professional environment.

I wear dress pants that make my dick look huge, so I guess it's okay.

[eric42434224]

It's just not really helpful to be "distracted" in a professional environment.

Maybe if you are on the bomb squad diffusing explosives.  If looking at boobs affects your performance at work, you probably have bigger issues.
Stop oppressing workplace cleavage!

[Podaar]

Mrs. Podaar is a successful executive and every morning when she dresses for the office (from one of her half-dozen closets) she asks me how her ensemble looks. If she looks sexy, I tell her so. She trusts me to be honest. She will change out or add a scarf, jacket or sweater as necessary to minimize any obvious hotness. I think it works out nicely.

She would definitely say it's unprofessional to show too much cleavage or leg. And oh boy does she have legs! And long blonde hair! And she's got amounts where it counts! Uuuuu... Excuse me. BRB.

[kirksnosehair]

...for a Business Professional woman to dress in a manner where her cleavage is the 'main' thing that stands out about her? I'm serious. I fully expect the Junior High humor that I love about DTF to surface in this thread, but at the same time I'm totally interested in finding out opinions on this.

  I had a fairly important meeting today in which we were making decisions on a $50 plus million dollars Medical Office Building...and one of the members of the Core Team literally was wearing a top where her boobs were bursting out. Bursting. Begging to be let free and they were saying "hi" to everyone. It was impossible to look in her direction and not be distracted for two reasons... ha ha, not those two reasons...but first the concentration it took NOT to look required so much attention that I have no idea of anything she said. Second, when that concentrattion failed....and it did several times....I was consumed by worry that I was busted checking her rack out. And her position is very important so it's not like she's a college intern. There is no way she left the house not knowing her boobs were out there like that or that she didn't want people to look. They were just...right there...

  My job requires a lot if meetings and I've noticed this isn't an isolated event. There are quite a few Businees Professional women who are showing off the goods. I'm just curious as to how appropriate it is. There is a young woman in my office who was found 'waiting tables' by a Senior staff member and pushed through HR despite their reservations and she consistently dresses less than Professional, sometimes it's uncomfortable actually. But nothing is said.
  Just curious as to what everyone's opinion is?

Are they hiring where you work? 

[sueño]

Mrs. Podaar is a successful executive and every morning when she dresses for the office (from one of her half-dozen closets) she asks me how her ensemble looks. If she looks sexy, I tell her so. She trusts me to be honest. She will change out or add a scarf, jacket or sweater as necessary to minimize any obvious hotness. I think it works out nicely.

She would definitely say it's unprofessional to show too much cleavage or leg. And oh boy does she have legs! And long blonde hair! And she's got amounts where it counts! Uuuuu... Excuse me. BRB.

I feel pretty safe in saying that most provocatively dressed women in the workplace do not have men at home who will comment on their attire.  Good on you, Mr. Podaar. 

While there is very often full knowledge of what's "being put out there, on display", there is a real possibility that some (usually younger) women leave the house just thinking they look cute rather than discerning what effect they may be having on men or the image they are projecting.

[lonestar]

I love the irony here. I work in an enviornment where flirtatiousness is omnipresent, drinking on the job is common, and I see diddly squat of any boobage. Curse the standard server uniform...

[Podaar]

Lonestar,

You need to work at a place like this https://www.lacaille.com/ordereze/home.aspx. Their waitresses dress similar to this:

[kirksnosehair]

My company is extremely progressive.  We don't have a dress code here in the office.  Many people come to work in shorts and t-shirts in the summer time.  Most of the rank and file employees wear jeans and sneakers with sweatshirts, t-shirts or polo shirts.  Most of us in management dress business casual.  There are few younger women in the admin group who have been known to wear skin-tight jeans with cowboy boots and snug fitting sweaters or button-down shirts that show some bra/cleavage.  Doesn't happen too much around here, but once in a while it does.


I've been around women in the workplace who are showing almost enough for some nipple to peek out.   I admire a nice set of cans, but I prefer not to have those things dangled in my face while I'm trying to work.  The thing is, for guys it's a no-win situation.  Looking, commenting, joking, etc....can land you in seriously hot water.   I've always ignored them.


Anyone who's hanging them out there like that is either looking to boink her way up the corporate ladder or professionally inept.  Or just plain stupid.  I don't find any of those particularly appealing.

[MoraWintersoul]

If she's wearing something that's making her tits burst out, she's doing it on purpose because she wants the attention.

Nope, it's probably about liking how she looks like in it. Not even 10% of what women do with their appearance is about attracting male attention.

It's just not really helpful to be "distracted" in a professional environment.

Maybe if you are on the bomb squad diffusing explosives.  If looking at boobs affects your performance at work, you probably have bigger issues.

This. It's not up to professional standards but she isn't breaking any actual rules, just guidelines.

It's just boobs, guys. I can't believe there's grown-ass men who can't look away from a pair of tits and find them "distracting", since you literally see them tumbling out of every screen in your house every couple of minutes.

If I were her superior, I'd have a conversation with her about whether she thinks her clothes are acceptable in a professional environment and how serious is she about working in the company, but if she said she thought there was nothing inappropriate about her clothes and that she'd like to keep on dressing herself in the same manner, what could I do? "Cover up, you're distracting the men"? Nope, I'd just let it fly and see if she's worth keeping as a worker.

All this coming from someone who's never worn a mini-skirt nor shown more than an inch of cleavage.

[jingle.boy]

With all due respect Milena ... As a chick, you'll NEVER understand most men's obsession with hooters. We behave around them the way you would if both Gildenlow brothers just rang your doorbell one day.