King Crimson Appreciation Thread

[ytserush]

I don't know if this is the right place (or the Yes thread) but I've been listening to the Asia In Asia box set I got.  It's got the satellite broadcast as originally aired, it's got a remixed version of the video from the broadcast (with the full set; at least three songs were cut from the broadcast), a CD of the full set remix, and a CD of the full run dry run the night before. 

This is the live show from the Budokan in Tokyo with Greg Lake subbing in for John Wetton.  Holy shit is it way better than I had remembered.  Greg Lake's voice is just velvet. Steve Howe is on fire.  Yeah, Geoff Downes looks kind of douchey running back and forth behind Carl Palmer with 2,943 keyboards, of which I think he uses four, but it's such a good, well-played show.   Greg Lake is the star though; the liner notes make clear the band had just gotten off the last leg of their Alpha tour, and were tight, but he had to jump in to replace the MIA John Wetton (fired/quit) but he plays and sings flawlessly.   I'm always impressed by that level of professionalism and competency.  I think Asia was about Wetton's writing, but it would have been interesting to see what it looked like with Lake (accounts differ as to why it didn't continue with Lake).

I thought there was an Asia thread around here somewhere.

Anyway, odd that you mention this box. I ordered this from overseas at a ridiculous price after Christmas. Shipping it here cost more than it's markdown price. (Haven't opened it yet because I need to make room for it on the shelf.

What I really wanted was the CD of the show and rehearsal and planned to get those as standalones but I couldn't pass up the box at that price. (Have the Enso Kai CD which is the soundtrack to the original concert.)

But yeah, that band was on fire. Sadly, it's the only proshot document from those years and it's also the only professionally recorded from that period.  Lake doesn't have Wetton's range but he does a great job. As much as I like it I really wish there was one from this period with Wetton. You would have figured they would have been recorded by King Biscuit Superstars In Concert Westwood One or some other company like so many bands from that era were. The performances easily blew away anything on the records.

I listen to this show at least a half dozen times a year and as much as I love the audio, it will be great to see the video again (I only ever watched this on You Tube)
Just need to find some room on the shelf or some other place to put it. (I don't even care about the vinyl and other doodads. The CDs/DVD were the must haves.)

[ytserush]

I don't know if this is the right place (or the Yes thread) but I've been listening to the Asia In Asia box set I got.  It's got the satellite broadcast as originally aired, it's got a remixed version of the video from the broadcast (with the full set; at least three songs were cut from the broadcast), a CD of the full set remix, and a CD of the full run dry run the night before. 

This is the live show from the Budokan in Tokyo with Greg Lake subbing in for John Wetton.  Holy shit is it way better than I had remembered.  Greg Lake's voice is just velvet. Steve Howe is on fire.  Yeah, Geoff Downes looks kind of douchey running back and forth behind Carl Palmer with 2,943 keyboards, of which I think he uses four, but it's such a good, well-played show.   Greg Lake is the star though; the liner notes make clear the band had just gotten off the last leg of their Alpha tour, and were tight, but he had to jump in to replace the MIA John Wetton (fired/quit) but he plays and sings flawlessly.   I'm always impressed by that level of professionalism and competency.  I think Asia was about Wetton's writing, but it would have been interesting to see what it looked like with Lake (accounts differ as to why it didn't continue with Lake).

I feel like I knew Lake subbed in for Asia at some point but I didn't realize there was recordings available. So they were half-Yes and two-thirds ELP at one point? Could've called themselves YELP. 

-Marc.

HAHA. 

My review?  Greg Lake's voice is like velvet.  Did I say that already? 

(Oh, and Steve Howe has to retire the lame "Wildest Dreams" intro; "Thank you Tokyo! This is amazing. It's really beyond our wildest dreams!" Bah! Ba-na-na-NA-NA! Bah! Ba-na-na-NA-NA!)

Sure is Mr. Personality isn't he?  You notice that Howe's solo would become Sketches In The Sun three years later on the GTR album?

[Stadler]

I did.  I'm indifferent on Howe.  I don't really like HIM that much, based on what I've read that he's said, but he's undeniably a great guitarist (though, notably, when I saw Asia with Wetton, he made a LOT of mistakes).

Love the set, though. It's everything you've asked for.  There are differences between the CDs and the broadcast, though, albeit minor ones. I now have on my hard drive both CDs (one is the remix of the full set of the broadcast show and one is the night before "rehearsal"), I have the original laser disk audio, and the original broadcast audio (there are some differences; the broadcast has Mark Goodman talking over the space before Sole Survivor, as well as an awkward interview with band as soon as they left the stage). 

BTW, Mark Goodman is a tool.  God was he awkward. 

[ytserush]

I did.  I'm indifferent on Howe.  I don't really like HIM that much, based on what I've read that he's said, but he's undeniably a great guitarist (though, notably, when I saw Asia with Wetton, he made a LOT of mistakes).

Love the set, though. It's everything you've asked for.  There are differences between the CDs and the broadcast, though, albeit minor ones. I now have on my hard drive both CDs (one is the remix of the full set of the broadcast show and one is the night before "rehearsal"), I have the original laser disk audio, and the original broadcast audio (there are some differences; the broadcast has Mark Goodman talking over the space before Sole Survivor, as well as an awkward interview with band as soon as they left the stage). 

BTW, Mark Goodman is a tool.  God was he awkward.

I'm partial to Allan Hunter myself. I figured there would be some minor differences.  This has always been a must have show for me.  Never saw the band so I was always blown away by the energy of the performance. They really brought those songs to life. I just wish that wasn't the only professional live document from those years but they weren't really "hot" for that long all things considered.

[Metro]

Some tour dates have started to leak for a band called "Beat" featuring Adrian Belew, Tony Levin, Danny Carey, and Steve Vai.

https://www.ticketmaster.com/beat-belew-vai-levin-carey-san-diego-california-09-17-2024/event/0A00605B216A46C9

https://humphreysconcerts.com/schedule.cfm/%20https:/jeffpetersonguitar.com/index.cfm

BEAT - Belew/Vai/Levin/Carey play 80s King Crimson!

Former King Crimson members ADRIAN BELEW and TONY LEVIN band together with guitar virtuoso STEVE VAI and explosive Tool drummer DANNY CAREY for the first time to create BEAT, a creative reinterpretation of the three iconic 80s KING CRIMSON albums - Discipline, Beat, and Three Of A Perfect Pair.

Only the greatest players in the world would take on the challenge of performing this incredibly influential music.

Prepare yourself for the experience of a lifetime with BEAT performing the 80s music of KING CRIMSON!

[HOF]

Interesting. Steve Vai feels like he sort of sticks out a bit from that group, but I'm sure he's capable of doing whatever.

[Orbert]

I think Vai is an excellent choice as the other guitarist (the "Fripp" of the group).  He's technically proficient, and he and Belew are both alumni of Frank Zappa's bands back in the 70's and 80's.  I'm looking forward to hearing what they come up with.

[HOF]

I think Vai is an excellent choice as the other guitarist (the "Fripp" of the group).  He's technically proficient, and he and Belew are both alumni of Frank Zappa's bands back in the 70's and 80's.  I'm looking forward to hearing what they come up with.

True, forgot that Belew also played with Zappa.

[Metro]

I hope Steve plays sitttng down, like Fripp.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i hope this tour comes to me, i would see this show in a second

[Orbert]

I think Vai is an excellent choice as the other guitarist (the "Fripp" of the group).  He's technically proficient, and he and Belew are both alumni of Frank Zappa's bands back in the 70's and 80's.  I'm looking forward to hearing what they come up with.

True, forgot that Belew also played with Zappa.

Zappa's Sheik Yerbouti album with the minor hit "Dancing Fool" back in '79 was my intro to the great Adrian Belew.  That opening guitar chord on "Dancing Fool" is pure Adrian.  A few years later, we'd heard that Fripp had reformed King Crimson and added a second guitarist, and it was none other than Adrian Belew.  I think Zappa credited Steve Vai as his first "stunt guitarist" but Adrian was really the first; Zappa just hadn't come up with the term for it yet.

[Metro]

Fripp approves

https://www.loudersound.com/news/robert-fripp-endorses-new-adrian-belew-crimson-project-beat

[Orbert]

That's cool!  I've read a little bit about maybe some bad blood between Robert and Adrian, and honestly didn't dig into it because I try to avoid that kind of thing, but if Fripp officially "blesses" the project, that's very cool.  I mean, it's not required or anything, but it's nice to have.

[Metro]

I've read a little bit about maybe some bad blood between Robert and Adrian

Yeah I definitely got that vibe from Adrian in the recent documentary. He seemed really disappointed about not being asked back when KC returned in 2013. He tried to reunite the 80's lineup in 2011, but Bruford had retired and I guess Fripp just wasn't interested.

And then there was this from 2017. Fripp said:

"Adrian has also agreed to be King Crimson's Ninth Man."

https://www.dgmlive.com/news/Belew%20now%209th%20Man

Obviously that never happened, but I would have loved to see him in the recent version of KC alongside Jakko. Jakko could sing the older songs, from Court to Red, and Adrian could do the rest. The band has 3 drummers, so 3 guitarists certainly wouldn't have been out of the question.

[HOF]

Fripp is a weird guy who seems to burn bridges for no apparent reason with people, but I think I read somewhere that he and Belew did patch things up after Belew got shut out of the last lineup.

(I guess that was the 2017 9th man thing, but I thought I remembered something more recent).

[SwedishGoose]

Would love to see the tour but I guess it will be US only?

[ytserush]

Some tour dates have started to leak for a band called "Beat" featuring Adrian Belew, Tony Levin, Danny Carey, and Steve Vai.

https://www.ticketmaster.com/beat-belew-vai-levin-carey-san-diego-california-09-17-2024/event/0A00605B216A46C9

https://humphreysconcerts.com/schedule.cfm/%20https:/jeffpetersonguitar.com/index.cfm

BEAT - Belew/Vai/Levin/Carey play 80s King Crimson!

Former King Crimson members ADRIAN BELEW and TONY LEVIN band together with guitar virtuoso STEVE VAI and explosive Tool drummer DANNY CAREY for the first time to create BEAT, a creative reinterpretation of the three iconic 80s KING CRIMSON albums - Discipline, Beat, and Three Of A Perfect Pair.

Only the greatest players in the world would take on the challenge of performing this incredibly influential music.

Prepare yourself for the experience of a lifetime with BEAT performing the 80s music of KING CRIMSON!

I'll travel 150 miles to see this.  Looks like I'll have to deal with Ticket Bastard if I do.

[Mladen]

I'd actually enjoy seeing that tour. Fingers crossed for some European dates.

[skydivingninja]

Fingers crossed it becomes a whole tour. 80s Crimson is my favorite era of the band even though I'd call Red my favorite album. Seeing Adrian and Tony play together would be a dream.

[Mladen]

For me, what seals the deal on this project is Steve Vai on guitar. Though I'm not the biggest fan of his, he's one of the few people that would do Fripp's parts justice. He would approach it truly seriously.

[hefdaddy42]

Oh, that sounds like a fantastic show!

[Stadler]

Now, if they played the Wetton material only, I'd be there!

[Orbert]

I can't see that happening at all.  This band is a tribute to the 80's lineup, which was a deliberate departure from the late 70's Wetton-era lineup.

[Stadler]

I can't see that happening at all.  This band is a tribute to the 80's lineup, which was a deliberate departure from the late 70's Wetton-era lineup.

No, understood.   My point was a veiled "I don't quite get the reverence for the 80s lineup" comment.   I think Discipline is one of the best SOUNDING records in my collection (of over 2,500) but I haven't listened to Beat or Three Of A Perfect Pair in ages.  I'm not even sure I OWN Three Of A Perfect Pair.  Having said that, I could listen to "Fracture" every day if I had to.

[El Barto]

I can't see that happening at all.  This band is a tribute to the 80's lineup, which was a deliberate departure from the late 70's Wetton-era lineup.

No, understood.   My point was a veiled "I don't quite get the reverence for the 80s lineup" comment.   I think Discipline is one of the best SOUNDING records in my collection (of over 2,500) but I haven't listened to Beat or Three Of A Perfect Pair in ages.  I'm not even sure I OWN Three Of A Perfect Pair.  Having said that, I could listen to "Fracture" every day if I had to.

The 84 Live in Japan DVD is what got me into them. You should check out the Live at Frejus show (82). One of the coolest openers you'll ever see. It's only 7 songs, I think, but watching them do what they were doing really adds a lot to it, I think. That said, it still has a lot of that Talking Heads vibe, so if that's what you don't connect with then it probably won't move you much.

[skydivingninja]

The 80s era to me is the perfect combo of good songwriting and sonic experimentation. It feels like a magical combo in a way the other incarnations don't, even if there's some great music there.

[HOF]

I just love the sound of those three albums. Just something really unique about them. But also some really great songs as well.

[Stadler]

I can't see that happening at all.  This band is a tribute to the 80's lineup, which was a deliberate departure from the late 70's Wetton-era lineup.

No, understood.   My point was a veiled "I don't quite get the reverence for the 80s lineup" comment.   I think Discipline is one of the best SOUNDING records in my collection (of over 2,500) but I haven't listened to Beat or Three Of A Perfect Pair in ages.  I'm not even sure I OWN Three Of A Perfect Pair.  Having said that, I could listen to "Fracture" every day if I had to.

The 84 Live in Japan DVD is what got me into them. You should check out the Live at Frejus show (82). One of the coolest openers you'll ever see. It's only 7 songs, I think, but watching them do what they were doing really adds a lot to it, I think. That said, it still has a lot of that Talking Heads vibe, so if that's what you don't connect with then it probably won't move you much.

And that right there is enough to get me to go back and put on... In The Court Of The Crimson King.  HAHAHAHAHA.  Not a fan of the Heads.

[Orbert]

The 80's King Crimson was yet another band that started as something else.  Originally the band was to be called Discipline, but at some point Fripp decided that it was "worthy" of the King Crimson moniker.  So yeah, it's pretty different from what came before it.

I've seen comments elsewhere that this band was trying to be like Talking Heads or something.  I don't think any band "tries" to be like another band.  Adrian played with the Heads and some of their sound came from him, so I suppose the comparisons were inevitable, but I've never listened to a lot of Talking Heads so the comparison was lost on me.

[hefdaddy42]

That 80s era just made some wonderful, intricate, thought-provoking music.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i don't think 80s KC sounds like Talking Heads at all. i think what orbert said makes sense given that AB was in both bands. but the approach of the Heads was always Byrne's insane mind, while the approach to KC was Fripp + company purposely trying to push music boundaries. there may be some resulting overlap in sound but i think the intention of each band is wildly different

AB was also in Zappa's band, and Bowie's band, and i wouldn't compare either of those artists to KC either

[HOF]

There are some shared elements between 80s KC and Talking Heads for sure. But Crimson was still doing their own thing.

[Metro]

Elephant Talk and Thela Hun Ginjeet both sound pretty Talking Heads to me, but still undeniably KC.

I do love the 80's era of KC, but I get why someone who prefers the 70's stuff wouldn't like it. 
Starless —> Elephant Talk is a pretty jarring transition if you're listening to their catalog chronologically.

[HOF]

It is almost a whole new band, but then there are certainly characteristics of KC that show through in both the 70s and 80s (and beyond) albums. At the end of the day it's still Robert Fripp doing all kinds of weird Robert Fripp stuff.

[El Barto]

i don't think 80s KC sounds like Talking Heads at all. i think what orbert said makes sense given that AB was in both bands. but the approach of the Heads was always Byrne's insane mind, while the approach to KC was Fripp + company purposely trying to push music boundaries. there may be some resulting overlap in sound but i think the intention of each band is wildly different

AB was also in Zappa's band, and Bowie's band, and i wouldn't compare either of those artists to KC either

I repeat myself when under stress!

Overall I don't think KC sounds much like the TH, but Adrian Belew certainly does. The songs where he's most prominant are the ones that always make me think of that. Referring to the Frejus concert I recommended to Stadler, I didn't pick up on it until NaJaM, and as soon as he starts singing that's what I hear, yet the rest of the song sounds like textbook Crimson.