King Crimson Appreciation Thread

[Nekov]

So I'm at Starless and Bible Black now.  It's not as good as the others.

The sound changes a bit on that album but give it a couple of spins and it will sink in

[Ħ]

Now I'm listening to Red and boy is it a big improvement over the two albums before it.

[Phoenix87x]

So I'm at Starless and Bible Black now.  It's not as good as the others.

Its the one KC album that I really don't like at all.

When the first line of an album is "heath food fagot" you know you're in for trouble. I remember rewinding it on the first listen and saying "Did I really just hear what I thought I heard?". It just rubbed me the wrong way I guess.

When I first got the album I was so hyped up since it came between two of my favorites Lark's and Red, so I assumed that it would be just as good, but I was severely disappointed on my first few listens. The whole thing feels like its below their potential. Songs like We'll let you know, The Mincer, Fracture and the title track just don't go anywhere and just meander around. I'm a patient guy, but not that patient. I find the album is very frustrating to listen to.

Now with all that being said, I must say that The Night Watch may be my favorite KC song, which is funny since its on my least favorite album. Its the diamond in the ruff. It so powerful and touching. It sends shivers up and down my spine and gives me goosebumps.

Trio is sweet too, but besides that, the album doesn't do anything for me.

Now I'm listening to Red and boy is it a big improvement over the two albums before it.

Red might be my favorite, but its a hard choice.

[The Letter M]

So, off-topic, kind of, but... have the KC Re-Issues stopped? I've only seen the first four albums, Red, SABB and Discipline. What happened to Larks and Beat? Last I heard they were coming out soon. Then I suppose TOAPP and Thrak would be next, right?

Also, were TCOL and TPTB being remixed by Wilson as well?

-Marc.

[Nel_Annette]

I was wondering that myself. i was going to hold out on certain albums just in case remastered versions were coming out. They'd look really good together on the shelf if they were all in the 40th Anniversary Series style.

[The Letter M]

I was wondering that myself. i was going to hold out on certain albums just in case remastered versions were coming out. They'd look really good together on the shelf if they were all in the 40th Anniversary Series style.

Right! I agree, and it sucks a lot of my favorite bands have been re-re-issuing their whole catalogs, just years after I completed their  full discographies - Rush, Queen, Kansas (most of it in a boxset), King Crimson, Genesis (although I got all of those boxsets now), Pink Floyd...it's getting pricey!

But I was going to hold off on the KC re-issues for now, until more got re-issued. It's hard to set money aside for them, though, with so much NEW music coming out this year, so it's been tricky to be picky about re-issues.

-Marc.

[Ħ]

I wonder why he skipped Larks.

[The Letter M]

I wonder why he skipped Larks.

Well they weren't released in chronological order. IIRC, he released them as follows:
Lizard and Red
ITCOTCK
ITWOP and Islands
SABB and Discipline

IIRC, either Beat or TOAPP were next, along with LTIA, but no news has been said along that front.

-Marc.

[The King in Crimson]

So I'm at Starless and Bible Black now.  It's not as good as the others.

The sound changes a bit on that album but give it a couple of spins and it will sink in

Starless is hurt, IMO, by the fact that a lot of the songs are live improvs, so they seem really, really aimless. Lament and We'll Let You Know are fun jams that I enjoy, but Trio, The Mincer and the title-track are really aimless.  Fracture is a bit sparse, but it has some cool sections.

The Night Watch is a fantastic song though and I really like The Great Deceiver, which has a wry sense of humor thing going on.

SABB is definitely one of their lesser albums, but I still find stuff to enjoy.

I wonder why he skipped Larks.

The Larks reissue is done, last I heard. It wasn't released because of some issue getting the rights to something... so they went with Discipline instead.

I wish I remember where I read that, but it was a while ago.... gah!

I really wish the reissues would come out a bit faster though.  Waiting a year for the next two releases is killing me.

[seasonsinthesky]

Also, were TCOL and TPTB being remixed by Wilson as well?

Thrak and Power are being handled by someone else (forget his name). ConstruKction is not included in the anniversary series whatsoever.

[Orbert]

Improvisation was an important part of King Crimson, especially in the early days, and my guess is that Fripp wanted to capture some of that on record.  The biggest problem, as I see it, is that it really should be relegated to live albums and not take up space on studio albums.  If you buy a live Crimson album, you expect at least some improv tracks.  Studio albums, I'm looking for more structure, tunes that are actually composed, with maybe a section or two that are improvised.

Even Red, my favorite studio Crimson album, has "Providence" which I often skip.  Actually, for a long I assumed it was a studio improv, as he fades it out before the end.  It wasn't until much, much later that we learned that it's an excerpt from a live recording.  In which case, I'm not sure what the point was, except to include it on an album just because he wanted it out there.

[KevShmev]

Now I'm listening to Red and boy is it a big improvement over the two albums before it.

Totally agreed.  I think Starless and Bible Black is a total dud, and I've never thought Larks' was anything more than just good.  Red is dynamite.

[The Letter M]

Now I'm listening to Red and boy is it a big improvement over the two albums before it.

Totally agreed.  I think Starless and Bible Black is a total dud, and I've never thought Larks' was anything more than just good.  Red is dynamite.

Agreed, and you could probably make yourself a single 80-minute CD-r of the best Wetton-Era tunes anyway and have all you need on one disc instead of three.

-Marc.

[Orbert]

My college roommate played Red and USA all the time, and I consider this my real introduction to King Crimson, even though I'd heard In the Court of the Crimson King many years before.  To this day, those are my favorite studio and live albums by King Crimson, and I guess it's because of those two albums that I still consider the mid-70's band my favorite.  But I do remember finally getting a chance to hear Starless and Bible Black and Larks' Tongues in Aspic and being rather underwhelmed by both of them.  They each have their moments, but overall did not live up.

Marc is right; the best of those three albums could easily fit on a single CD.  Hmm, that gives me an idea...

[Phoenix87x]

I've been listening to A Scarcity of Miracles over the past few days and I like this album a lot, but I feel like it falls short of  living up to its potential.

I don't really like the last two tracks at all. The other man, and Light of day.  All the other songs are somber, beautiful and touching where as the last two tracks just feel somewhat dark, and don't do anything spectacular.

[Pols Voice]

I don't think Red is that much better than Larks. In fact, I think I might like Larks better. Jamie Muir's percussion contributions are pretty interesting. SABB is an okay album, with The Night Watch being an obvious highlight, but I'm not too thrilled with some of the improv stuff.

[Ħ]

Okay, now I'm finishing up Beat. It's definitely given off the best first impression so far. If I had to rank the albums, even though I've listened to each one only once (other than ITCOTCK), I'd do it like this:

1. Beat
2. In the Wake of Poseidon
3. Lizard
4. Red
5. In the Court of the Crimson King
6. Islands
7. Larks' Tongues in Aspic
8. Discipline
9. Starless and Bible Black

[Orbert]

That's a refreshing opinion.  Most people consider Discipline the best (of the three 80's albums), then Beat, then Three of a Perfect Pair.  I've seen many who consider Beat nearly as good as Discipline, but many see a steep dropoff in quality after Discipline which continues to Three.  I'm not sure if I've ever seen Beat ranked higher than Discipline.

They're pretty neck-and-neck for me.  I like the direction they took with Discipline (compared to the earlier stuff), and Beat took it a bit further in some ways, but in a few spots maybe went a bit too far for me.  Interesting that you actually put Discipline so low, also.  That too is unusual.

[Phoenix87x]

Okay, now I'm finishing up Beat. It's definitely given off the best first impression so far. If I had to rank the albums, even though I've listened to each one only once (other than ITCOTCK), I'd do it like this:

1. Beat
2. In the Wake of Poseidon
3. Lizard
4. Red
5. In the Court of the Crimson King
6. Islands
7. Larks' Tongues in Aspic
8. Discipline
9. Starless and Bible Black

Wow, beat as number 1. I never thought I would see that. Don't get me wrong, I like Beat a lot, but its kind of a KC blacksheep to me. It strays just a bit to far into new wave/pop, but I still get a lot of enjoyment out of it and the music video for heartbeat is priceless:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPO3pJEieSU

Does anybody else know if this is the only music video they made?

[Ħ]

That's a refreshing opinion.  Most people consider Discipline the best (of the three 80's albums), then Beat, then Three of a Perfect Pair.  I've seen many who consider Beat nearly as good as Discipline, but many see a steep dropoff in quality after Discipline which continues to Three.  I'm not sure if I've ever seen Beat ranked higher than Discipline.

They're pretty neck-and-neck for me.  I like the direction they took with Discipline (compared to the earlier stuff), and Beat took it a bit further in some ways, but in a few spots maybe went a bit too far for me.  Interesting that you actually put Discipline so low, also.  That too is unusual.

I simply wasn't impressed by what I heard from Discipline. Maybe I'll listen to it again.

This just in, my updated ranking:

1. Three of a Perfect Pair
2. Beat
3. In the Wake of Poseidon
4. Lizard
5. Red
6. In the Court of the Crimson King
7. Islands
8. Larks' Tongues in Aspic
9. Discipline
10. Starless and Bible Black

I'm on THRAK now, and so far it's faring better than TFAPP.

[The Letter M]

I'm on THRAK now, and so far it's faring better than TFAPP.

What have you been *doing* while listening to these albums??

-Marc.

[Ħ]

I - I have no idea where that abbreviation came from. 

[Nekov]

H, please re-listen to everything one more time. If you insist ranking beat and TOAPP in the top of your list I will have to ask you to leave this thread.

Sincerley,

Every King Crimson Fan

[Orbert]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPO3pJEieSU

Does anybody else know if this is the only music video they made?

I've never seen that video before.  I know there was one for "Sleepless".  It's awesome.

[Ħ]

So THRAK was very very good but The ConstruKction of Light is really not doing so well.

[Pols Voice]

TCOL has some great material, but the production is kind of weird, especially the drums. Larks' Tongues in Aspic Part IV just rips my face off, though.

[Ħ]

Okay, FraKctured has to be the best thing I've heard by KC thus far.

[Phoenix87x]

So THRAK was very very good but The ConstruKction of Light is really not doing so well.

I love THRAK and can't stand TCOL.

[Ħ]

Three of a Perfect Pair
Beat
THRAK
The ConstruKction of Light
In the Wake of Poseidon
Lizard
Red
In the Court of the Crimson King
Islands
Larks' Tongues in Aspic
Discipline
Starless and Bible Black

One more album to go! So far I definitely prefer front catalog of their discography, it would seem.

[Orbert]

Give it time.  As you listen to each album more, they will move around in your rankings, I'm sure.

[Ħ]

The Power to Believe is the best King Crimson album. There. Now my ranking is complete.

But I'm not really sold on King Crimson anyway. Not really my thing. I was just listening because I knew it was a big inspiration for Steven Wilson's Grace For Drowning. So I'm done with KC for now.

[MasterShakezula]

Um, dude, how many times did you listen to each album? 

[Ħ]

Once. Except ITCOTCK, which I listened to about 5 times.

[MasterShakezula]

One listen isn't always enough to figure how you feel about an album.  I'd recommend you listen some more and not at such a fast pace.  I've never gotten stuck on a band by binging on their entire discography in a matter of days. 

[Ħ]

One listen isn't always enough to figure how you feel about an album.  I'd recommend you listen some more and not at such a fast pace.  I've never gotten stuck on a band by binging on their entire discography in a matter of days. 

I've pretty much known within a few listens whether or not an artist is for me. And KC is not.