New Live Release: BREAKING THE FOURTH WALL discussion thread

[Cyclopssss]

Yeah I really, really like this release. Not to be pissy, but Live at  Luna Park was such a dissapointment, soundwise. 

[Jinx]

So does anyone know whats up with MM during IT? Just after the "Grace before glory" it cuts to him during that first keyboard/drums part and he shakes his head and looks pissed off. Did he mess it up? I cant hear a mistake of he does!

[Dublagent66]

I only have 4 complaints about this release.  Illumination Theory, Enigma Machine, Along For The Ride, and JLB talking too much.  Everything else is nothing short of awesome.

[TAC]

I only have 4 complaints about this release.  Illumination Theory, Enigma Machine, Along For The Ride, and JLB talking too much.  Everything else is nothing short of awesome.

JLB talking to much? They cut out like 80% of the jibba jabba.

This live version of Enigma Machine actually opened my eyes to it. I didn't really care for it previously.

[Dublagent66]

Wow, really?  Well, the 20% they left in is still too much.  As far as EM goes, never liked it and the live version still doesn't do anything for me.  Behind The Veil is my fav and they didn't even play it.     When it comes to DT albums, 12 just isn't my luck number.

[perfey]

Really good DVD, watched the last part of it yesterday. Really liked the atmosphere, the setlist, the choir and the audience seemed to be into it.

[TheAtliator]

I only have 4 complaints about this release.  Illumination Theory, Enigma Machine, Along For The Ride, and JLB talking too much.  Everything else is nothing short of awesome.

JLB talking to much? They cut out like 80% of the jibba jabba.

This live version of Enigma Machine actually opened my eyes to it. I didn't really care for it previously.

I think maybe he meant talking during the song. I also think he says "let me hear you Boston" and such WAY too much. Not a huge problem I guess though. Thought the same thing on LALP.

And re: Enigma Machine, you are incorrect*
*source: BTFW DVD/Blu-Ray

[Mladen]

I finally got the new DVD and I'm loving every minute of it. 

[Jinx]

I only have 4 complaints about this release.  Illumination Theory, Enigma Machine, Along For The Ride, and JLB talking too much.  Everything else is nothing short of awesome.

JLB talking to much? They cut out like 80% of the jibba jabba.

This live version of Enigma Machine actually opened my eyes to it. I didn't really care for it previously.

I think maybe he meant talking during the song. I also think he says "let me hear you Boston" and such WAY too much. Not a huge problem I guess though. Thought the same thing on LALP.

And re: Enigma Machine, you are incorrect*
*source: BTFW DVD/Blu-Ray

That whole "let me hear you Boston" thing only bothers me because its seemingly met with nothing. Obviously not the case live but still... same with the Luna Park DVD

[cramx3]

I can agree with that part, it is weird to not hear a reaction.

[King Postwhore]

I was there.  There was no shortage of us screaming.

[rumborak]

Oh yeah, we screamed our lungs out. The lack of reaction is a mixing issue, not an audience issue.

[Grizz]

Probably has to do with too much of the band bleeding in because the volume is too damn high

[rumborak]

[cramx3]

Yea I don't doubt the audience reacted, just can't hear it. Same with Luna Park, you can see the audience react but can't hear it. Pretty minor but kind of odd considering the crowd is a large part of what makes love concerts unique IMO.

[Bertielee]

Yea I don't doubt the audience reacted, just can't hear it. Same with Luna Park, you can see the audience react but can't hear it. Pretty minor but kind of odd considering the crowd is a large part of what makes love concerts unique IMO.

LOVE concerts? What a treat!

B.Lee

[cramx3]

I love me some love concerts 

[olliemedsy]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet, but upon watch Breaking the fourth wall today, I noticed during JP's guitar solo in Breaking all Illusions that the drums audio and video don't match up at 8:14. Does anyone have any information on the editing of this DVD?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCwj0ndqeUE
Modify message

[rumborak]

Certain parts were patched and rerecorded for the DVD, yeah.

[TheAtliator]

Yea didn't notice that one. Looks like it was overdubbed for just a second there.

[RaiseTheKnife]

That time stamp appears to be in sync to me.  I'd be very curious to listen to a boot of this show at some point.  As far as dubs are concerned, I think they did a great job of maintaining a fluid live feel through out the DVD.

[erwinrafael]

Watched it around 8 times. What exactly appears out of sync? The left hand hitting the snare softly? Because I can hear the hit.

[erwinrafael]

Is the HD Tracks version that different from the audio of the Blu-Ray? My primary experience is with the HD Tracks FLAC files, which is in my mobile phone and computer, and I don't really experience any of the complaints (JM inaudible, bass drums not audible, orchestra not audible, audience not reacting when JLB says "Hello, Boston!"). I use in-ear phones, so I guess that boosts the bass sound.

[Sycsa]

There's an interesting one in Trial of Tears. At the end of the "Hidden by disguise" section he does those huge drum fills. At the very end, when he rolls down the toms, two of his hits don't register. Now, he either hit the air on purpose/for some reason they didn't record/they overdubbed that part. (7:55 if you watch it on YouTube)

[BlobVanDam]

There's an interesting one in Trial of Tears. At the end of the "Hidden by disguise" section he does those huge drum fills. At the very end, when he rolls down the toms he two of his hits don't register. Now, he either hit the air on purpose/for some reason they didn't record/they overdubbed that part. (7:55 if you watch it on YouTube)

I didn't spot that one before. I don't think he's air hitting, I think he's definitely hitting them hard. I don't know why they wouldn't register though.

[rumborak]

Not that I want to start rumors, but I always viewed those "they just overdubbed those 5 seconds" statements with a little bit of suspicion. I have a bit the suspicion that when they decided to overdub, they overdubbed more than that, to keep the sound consistent.

[Grizz]

Sound consistency? For all we know the recording is direct from JP's guitar and pre-amped later, in which case overdubbing is easy.
I wouldn't doubt it now that I think about it.

[rumborak]

You don't just tee off the guitar input and then pre-amp it later in the studio. Because there's a whole daisy chain of effects that were activated live that you'd be missing (and thus having to recreate).
For the recording of the DVD they will have taken the same signal that went to the PA. And matching that without the punch-in being too obvious is not that easy.
Also, if you have ever compared the soundboard recording of the ACOS EP covers with the CD version, you know that DT, when they overdub, can overdub quite extensively.

[Grizz]

When you say same signal that went to the PA you mean went to the board right?
The signal chain goes something like this, right? And the recording would be between mic and board?

Guitar -> Axe/Other FX -> Triaxis -> Recto cab -> Microphone -> Board -> EQ/other FX -> PA -> Speakers

[TheAtliator]

At exactly 8:17 you hear a ride and see him hitting a crash.

JP also bends the very last note of the solo, and it doesn't match the audio. That whole last fast scale up could be overdubbed. It's way too fast to be able to see if the notes match up. But the last note is visibly overdubbed because of that bend and the picking (he picks like 10 times and you only hear about 4).

Didn't notice any of that until now, though.

[erwinrafael]

But he did hit a crash in 8:17 with his left hand. Maybe you are referrign to the right hand crash hit in 8:18?

I am having fun watching the YT videos at the 0.5 speed to check this stuff out? LOL

[In The Name Of Rudess]

At exactly 8:17 you hear a ride and see him hitting a crash.

JP also bends the very last note of the solo, and it doesn't match the audio. That whole last fast scale up could be overdubbed. It's way too fast to be able to see if the notes match up. But the last note is visibly overdubbed because of that bend and the picking (he picks like 10 times and you only hear about 4).

Didn't notice any of that until now, though.

About that last scale, you can actually see Jordan cringing a bit there in the background. In the Sonisphere video of TEI where JP misses a bunch of notes in the solo Jordan has that look too.

[PetFish]

At exactly 0:01 I sat back and let the show kick my ass.

I don't know how some of you guys can even enjoy the music at all when you're so busy nit-picking everything.

Yes, "we wouldn't be prog fans if we didn't" and "welcome to the Dream Theater Forums" and all that noise but, man, seriously.

[Sycsa]

I immensely enjoyed every minute of this release and, precisely for that reason, I watch it a lot. After multiple viewings, these things just pop into your eyes, especially if they're related to drums or vocals, as it's very obvious if something doesn't sync up there. You don't have to be nitpicky, if you're immersed, attentive and know what's going on, you'll spot these involuntarily.

[BlobVanDam]

At exactly 0:01 I sat back and let the show kick my ass.

I don't know how some of you guys can even enjoy the music at all when you're so busy nit-picking everything.

Yes, "we wouldn't be prog fans if we didn't" and "welcome to the Dream Theater Forums" and all that noise but, man, seriously.

Personally the "ignorance is bliss" attitude disturbs me, as if noticing details is a negative thing, because I don't see it as a bad thing at all. Just because we notice something, doesn't mean we're not enjoying the hell out of it at the same time!
It's just being observant, and for me it's an extra level to the experience to enjoy. I love noticing all of these little details, and appreciating that these are real people doing their best to give us something great. It's like "Where's Wally (or Waldo for the Americans)" for your TV!
I could point out little things like this on all of DT's DVDs. It doesn't make me enjoy it any less, it just gives me one more unique thing to discuss and share with other fans.