Top Complex and Odd Dream Theater Songs

[Sebiriver]

The Dance of Eternity is obviously on the list, but beside that, I would like to know what are the most complex DT songs by technique, time signatures, weirdness, and music in general.

[Another_Won]

I would be interested in hearing this too.  From people who actually know what is complex.  We have quite a few of these people on DTF that are qualified to respond.

[GasparXR]

First two that come to mind are The Dance of Eternity and Outcry.

[Rodni Demental]

I don't know if I'm 'qualified' to answer but my first thoughts goes to: Erotomania, Metropolis intrumental, Outcry intrumental, parts of A Change of Seasons, a fair few parts from Scenes from a Memory. A surprising amount of When Dream and Day Unite probably, due to the slightly irregular songwriting, the first album comes off as quite complex which might play a part as to why it's not very digestible at first to a lot of listeners. I think In the Presence of Enemies might have it's complicated moments aswell. Actually, a lot of their 'epics' (mind you, not all) tend to get a bit proggy at some point.

This is stuff that gets kinda complex from my personal point of view, as I don't play all the instruments and couldn't possibly know how to actually play all the songs, I'm certain there's far more tricky stuff that I haven't realised.  Also, if we're talking about solos, well that would change everything because there's some pretty complex solos that are part of otherwise relatively more simple arrangements. Like say; Blind Faith, has a secession of about 4 solos (piano/organ/keyboard synth/guitar - might need to refresh my memory on the order though). All of which are not easy to play, especially the guitar solo, but they're all crazy; a mindblowing string of solos there.

[Mosh]

I'd say the most odd and complex music is found on Six Degrees and ADTOE respectively. On Six Degrees they were doing all sorts of odd things like recording guitar solos backwards, using new keyboards, bass necks grafted on guitars...not to mention all the sonic experimentation. So in that way, it's pretty odd. However, with the exception of the Blind Faith unison and a couple bits in TGP, I don't find much of this album to be very difficult to play on guitar. So from a playing standpoint, it's not too complex.

ADTOE is the other way around though. As far as the recording and writing goes, it's really just DT doing their thing. The playing though is really kicking it up a notch, especially compared to the few albums before it. You've got Mangini doing his crazy polyrhythms, Jordan really going all out on his noodly solos, and Petrucci has some crazy licks on this album. The Outcry instrumental section is one of their most complex pieces, the Lost Not Forgotten tickle section is ridiculous, and the other songs (with the exception of BMUBMD and the ballads) all have little complex moments sprinkled in. I remember this being one of the most difficult albums for me to learn on guitar.

And of course you have to give props to Images & Words. DT may have surpassed themselves as far as complexities go since then, but at the time that was about as complex as Metal got.

[yeah_93]

Aside from The Dance of Eternity, Oucry is the first one that comes to mind. Then Metropolis, Erotomania.

[mikeyd23]

Lost Not Forgotten seems like a complex one as well.

[Knguro]

Dance
ITPoE
Illumination Theory
In the Name of God
Stream of Consciousness

No specific order.

[hefdaddy42]

Wow, I didn't think SOC was that complex in the first place.  I certainly didn't think it was complex enough to be listed twice!   

[Knguro]

Wow, I didn't think SOC was that complex in the first place.  I certainly didn't think it was complex enough to be listed twice!   

fixed 

[SuperTaco]

I would be interested in hearing this too.  From people who actually know what is complex.  We have quite a few of these people on DTF that are qualified to respond.

You seem to be implying that some of us shouldn't be qualified to answer. Anyone who posts here should be allowed to get their word in, no matter if we match your idea of "knowing what is complex" or not. If someone doesn't "know", help them learn instead of implying that they should just be quiet.

On topic, right now it's certainly Outcry. It's a complex song that has enough straightforward riffing to be infectious. Such is the case with many of DT's greatest tracks. They are a fine mix of crazy and collected. TDOE is an exception, being complex from start to finish. I didn't pick TDOE because it doesn't connect with me like Outcry. It's an awesome piece of music, but only to the ears, not to the heart.

[Knguro]

I would be interested in hearing this too.  From people who actually know what is complex.  We have quite a few of these people on DTF that are qualified to respond.

You seem to be implying that some of us shouldn't be qualified to answer. Anyone who posts here should be allowed to get their word in, no matter if we match your idea of "knowing what is complex" or not. If someone doesn't "know", help them learn instead of implying that they should just be quiet.

Relax man. 

[Another_Won]

I would be interested in hearing this too.  From people who actually know what is complex.  We have quite a few of these people on DTF that are qualified to respond.

You seem to be implying that some of us shouldn't be qualified to answer. Anyone who posts here should be allowed to get their word in, no matter if we match your idea of "knowing what is complex" or not. If someone doesn't "know", help them learn instead of implying that they should just be quiet.

Not at all.  I was certainly not saying who and who couldn't respond.  I was just mentioning that, based on previous threads, that there are people in the DTF community who would be very knowledgeable on this type of subject.  I guess maybe the "qualified to respond" part could have been worded better.  Please anyone respond that would like to. 

[Polarbear]

1. A Change Of Seasons
2. In The Presence Of Enemies (1&2)
3. Metropolis
4. Learning To Live
5. Dance...

[rumborak]

From the ones I've played in my band, I would say TDOE.

[mirko_metal_88]

Surely TDOE, then Outcry instrumental part is insane, Metropolis instrumental section is difficult to play as well...then i'd say Take the Time, the bass part freaks me out

[hauswife]

For me as a drummer the most complex songs to play are dance of eternity, outcry, dark eternal night and lost not forgotten.

[Mosh]

Wow, I didn't think SOC was that complex in the first place.  I certainly didn't think it was complex enough to be listed twice!   

Really it's one of the simplest songs in their catalog. I'm not sure what's complex about it, it's very straightforward.

[Knguro]

Wow, I didn't think SOC was that complex in the first place.  I certainly didn't think it was complex enough to be listed twice!   

Really it's one of the simplest songs in their catalog. I'm not sure what's complex about it, it's very straightforward.

I recall JP stating that the solo is one of most difficult on his catalog.

[Dublagent66]

I would agree.  Same for the solo in Beyond This Life.  Very complex as stated by JP.

[Rodni Demental]

Ah, how could I forget about tickle section of Lost not Forgotten! That stuff is crazy, it completely blew my face off when I first heard it, just gets so intense. Probably didn't occur to me because it's just snippet and the rest of the song is relatively not as complex as that section.

As for the mentions of Stream of Consciousness, it's overall not too complex but it does actually get kinda busy about 3 quarters of the way through doesn't it? Maybe I need to re-listen, it's been a while since I've heard it.

[Mosh]

Wow, I didn't think SOC was that complex in the first place.  I certainly didn't think it was complex enough to be listed twice!   

Really it's one of the simplest songs in their catalog. I'm not sure what's complex about it, it's very straightforward.

I recall JP stating that the solo is one of most difficult on his catalog.

I tend to disregard solos when considering how complex an entire song is, since plenty of simple songs can have complex solos and vice versa.

[Nearmyth]

A Change Of Seasons is one of those songs that was so complex it took me 3-4 listens for most of the themes to stick. Same with Learning To Live.

Metropolis, Outcry, TDOE, and A Nightmare To Remember all come to mind first.

[Knguro]

Wow, I didn't think SOC was that complex in the first place.  I certainly didn't think it was complex enough to be listed twice!   

Really it's one of the simplest songs in their catalog. I'm not sure what's complex about it, it's very straightforward.

I recall JP stating that the solo is one of most difficult on his catalog.

I tend to disregard solos when considering how complex an entire song is, since plenty of simple songs can have complex solos and vice versa.

Well im pretty sure those solos are the climax of a whole song specially SoC. If i were in a band as a guitar player and the rest of the band says, hey you know what? we should cover SoC, I would say straight and forward: F()#7 YOU! hahahaha... So yeah, for me that "simple" aspect makes it complex to execute.

[SuperTaco]

Not at all.  I was certainly not saying who and who couldn't respond.  I was just mentioning that, based on previous threads, that there are people in the DTF community who would be very knowledgeable on this type of subject.  I guess maybe the "qualified to respond" part could have been worded better.  Please anyone respond that would like to. 

That is true. There are plenty of intelligent fans here. I apologize for attacking your wording, it just gave me a weird feeling.

The only issue with this thread is that "complex" is a variable opinion. What makes a complex song? Does it need to be consistent, or does one tough part make the song complex as a whole? You guys mentioned SOC which is largely straightforward, with a hard solo. I would not put that song in this category just because of one tough part. The grey area in this topic is probably what makes the thread interesting though.

[hefdaddy42]

I tend to disregard solos when considering how complex an entire song is, since plenty of simple songs can have complex solos and vice versa.

Same here.

[Mosh]

Well im pretty sure those solos are the climax of a whole song specially SoC. If i were in a band as a guitar player and the rest of the band says, hey you know what? we should cover SoC, I would say straight and forward: F()#7 YOU! hahahaha... So yeah, for me that "simple" aspect makes it complex to execute.

Ehhhh..if I was in a band that suggested that I'd totally go for it. I'd either attempt to learn the guitar solo (there isn't really anything in the DT catalog that's impossible if you do a little practice) or just improvise something. The rest of the song is really not that hard, I'm not gonna let a solo stop me. 

[aprilethereal]

Metropolis, Outcry, TDOE, and A Nightmare To Remember all come to mind first.

ANTR? I'd say that one is pretty straightforward, just really long. What is it about it that makes you mention it as one of their most complex songs?

[puppyonacid]

I've always thought SoC sounded pretty complex from a harmonic point of view.

[LTE3]

Lost not forgotten as some of the sickest unison's ever done. So happy it was on Live at Luna park.
The Great Debate has some of the best drumming and at the time was different for them.
Fatal Tragedy has some awesome time changes and unique structures, not to mention being one of their best songs.

[Riitasointi]

For JP's things, Lost Not Forgotten tickle section definitely comes to mind as well as Beyond This Life solo. Also I think the unison in In The Name of God is really freaking complex, as is the guitar solo that soon follows. The Glass Prison has some amazing alternate picked (I mean who does that?!??) arpeggios in the beginning as well.

[CrimsonSunrise]

How about TDEN?  Seems pretty complex to me.

[RoeDent]

The usual suspects mentioned above. Dance, Outcry, Metropolis etc.

The thing that baffles me about the complex passage in Lost Not Forgotten is the fact it occurs during the songs intro! Like, that amount of complexity belongs in the middle instrumental break of a song, but they had the balls to stick it at the beginning, before the first vocals appear!