Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[Fritzinger]

I hope Haken make another contest for the album cover! (But I don't think they will)

AND I wish DT would so something like this.

[The Letter M]

I hope Haken make another contest for the album cover! (But I don't think they will)

AND I wish DT would so something like this.

It would be a tight race between Hugh Syme and Hugh Syme for sure!

-Marc.

[Zydar]

[Buddyhunter1]

Personally I think bands as big as Haken and DT should just pay a professional artist instead of mooching free work off of their fanbase...

[hefdaddy42]

Personally I think bands as big as Haken and DT should just pay a professional artist instead of mooching free work off of their fanbase...

Well, DT for one DOES pay a professional artist, but they generally get results that aren't as good as they would if they mooched free work off of their fanbase.

I think it's a great way for fan involvement, along with getting interesting product.

[Deadeye21]

Personally I think bands as big as Haken and DT should just pay a professional artist instead of mooching free work off of their fanbase...

Two trains of thought on this one.
1. Yeah, you're right, should just lay a professional artist who's already in the industry. Someone gets paid for the work they do and it comes from a name people already trust. However, a lot of the recent DT artwork by Hugh Syme (a very huge name) has been blank backgrounds and clip art with an attached Majesty symbol. On the other hand Wayne Joyner, who does the animations used in the DoT and AVFTTOTW tours, puts in so much extra attention to detail because there is that fan perspective as well. As a fan, I'm not happy with it, I now have the chance to change it myself, I'm gonna take it up!
2. We don't know that they aren't getting paid. Haken could've very easily reached out and said "hey, you won, we'll send you a couple hundred, send us your banking details" but kept it discreet. This also may not be the case. But this artist just got massive exposure. Hell, I want to commission them for artwork. Looks amazing!

[Zydar]

I'm sure the fan artist got paid, and also got a lot of exposure for their work. I wouldn't call it mooching at all.

[gzarruk]

I think it might be really cool if the band hired the same guy who just won this to make the actual album cover and all that

[Deadeye21]

I think it might be really cool if the band hired the same guy who just won this to make the actual album cover and all that

100% should. They're obviously very very talented.

[Buddyhunter1]

Personally I think bands as big as Haken and DT should just pay a professional artist instead of mooching free work off of their fanbase...

Well, DT for one DOES pay a professional artist, but they generally get results that aren't as good as they would if they mooched free work off of their fanbase.

I agree, and that says to me they need to get another "professional" artist.

I'm sure the fan artist got paid, and also got a lot of exposure for their work. I wouldn't call it mooching at all.

I would hope so (that they got paid). Exposure is obviously good, but the "getting paid in exposure" thing is a massive joke among the artist community for a good reason. Exposure doesn't pay the rent!

I of course don't blame any of the artists for participating. Working for free is obviously an easier pill to swallow if you're doing it simply because you love the band.

[gzarruk]

Also, the band explained all terms and conditions beforehand. I'm sure if one of the graphic artists didn't agree with them, they just wouldn't participate, no big deal.

[Ben_Jamin]

I think it might be really cool if the band hired the same guy who just won this to make the actual album cover and all that

It could be it's what the intent was. They used the Single artwork as a means to work out who to use, and then use them to design their cover art and the other artwork within the album booklet.

But that is a nice, very good single artwork, and I also thought the same exact thing as well, they should use this guy to design their album cover.

[gzarruk]

I know I'm very late to the party, but I'm just now checking Ross' solo album, and oh boy is it good There's some sections where it legit sounds like Jon Anderson singing, and I mean that in a very good way.

He's been killing it lately with everything he's been involved recently (couldn't like Novena, though), which makes me even more excited for Nightingale

[gzarruk]

From Charlie Griffiths:

News and music coming this week!

#insideoutmusic #progressivemetal
#notthehakensongthatscomingsomethingelse

[Buddyhunter1]

#notthehakensongthatscomingsomethingelse

*cough*

[gzarruk]

#notthehakensongthatscomingsomethingelse

*cough*

I know, but I figured I should post it here anyway

[emtee]

Still waiting for...whatever?

[The Letter M]

Still waiting for...whatever?

For this?

-Marc.

[WilliamMunny]

Wayyyyyyy late to this party, but for some reason, I decided to give The Mountain another go after several years, and for whatever reason it clicked. It clicked hard, actually.

I'm not sure why it took a decade for me to 'get' the album, but I am sooooo happy I decided to revisit it. I've spent the past week on a massive Haken deep dive, and while the first couple of album's didn't really grab my interest, I think the last four are all stellar.

Obviously, there's a lot to take in, so I'm far from being able to rank the catalog, but with that being said, I'd love it if anyone wanted to give me their personal snapshot/rankings of the Haken catalog.

[jammindude]

WITH PLEASURE!!!!

The Mountain has quickly become one of my all time favorite albums by anyone ever. So that's my #1. I was actually in a dark place when I heard that album the first time, and the positive messages about overcoming obstacles (sometimes even the ones you get from your own ego) really lifted me out of a hole. So it's a very personal album to me.

Visions is probably my #2. The obvious nods and homages to SFAM notwithstanding, it's still just a very fun and listenable album. The three song trilogy of Minds Eye/Portals/Shapeshifter might be the best thing they've ever recorded. And then to follow that up with Deathless is just icing on the cake.

Affinity would be my #3. It was SO DIFFERENT from The Mountain and that's why I love it. I hate it when a band just repeats themselves (DT is starting to rehash a bit and I find that slightly annoying, but that's another discussion). I love the variety of dynamics from the album. Experimentation with electronica, some super hefty beefy riffs for the metal crowd, and ending the BEAUTIFUL Bound by Gravity. Just a fantastic album.

Aquarius is #4. Such a great debut. I love it when their harmonies "soar" and there are plenty of those moments on this album. Sun and the ending of Drowning in the Flood are great examples. But Streams, and Point of No Return are incredible as well.

Hard to put any album at the bottom, but I put Vector and Virus in a tie here. I didn't really care for Vector when it came out, but I liked Virus much better, and because of the continuation of the story, I started listening to them back to back as a single story/concept and I feel like taking it as a single piece elevates both albums. Virus does feel exactly like Vector Part 2...but it also feels like a strong second act to a single story.

Didn't include the Restoration EP, but I love that as well. And Crystalized to me is the best epic they have ever written.

Haken currently stand as my #3 all time band behind Rush and Dream Theater...but I swear IQ is getting ready to bump them down to #4.

[gzarruk]

I agree with jammindude, the Visions-The Mountain-Affinity streak is their best material + Crystallized and Celestial Elixir.

[425]

My ranking is pretty similar to jammindude's, but with a few different placements:

1. The Mountain: Also one of my favorite albums of all time. It's wonderfully uplifting even while dealing with some challenging topics. Like Images and Words, I think of this as a lightning-in-a-bottle album, an album that was obviously career-defining as soon as it came out.

2. Aquarius: This is almost 1b for me, and there are times when I prefer it to The Mountain (it's likely that if you search back in this thread for previous rankings, there's at least one where I have it first). It has such an unusual songwriting approach that is definitely not for everyone, but really works for me. Celestial Elixir is still my favorite song by the band, and Drowning in the Flood is top 5. When I think long-range and I'm not in a particular mood, I put this at #2 mainly because it's not as emotionally resonant with me as The Mountain.

3. Affinity: About half of this one took a long time to click with me, but once it did, I came to really enjoy it a lot. The key was the closer, Bound by Gravity. For the longest time, I just wasn't hearing it, and one day it all fell into place, and the other songs I'd been unsure about, Red Giant and The Endless Knot, made so much more sense.

4. Visions: This is their most DT-esque album, and to me it does suffer a bit from not standing out as much stylistically. But the songwriting is undoubtedly there.

5. Virus: I haven't listened to this one since a couple of months after it came out, since it has a difficult personal association for me, but I think it's a good album. I'd have preferred a different stylistic direction to the route they went on the last two albums, but the music is still good.

6. Vector: Still a good album, but just not many memorable songs compared to their other ones.

[jammindude]

To those who haven't yet, I strongly recommend listening to Vector and Virus back to back as a single complete piece of work. I promise you that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts

[Zydar]

I still don't hear the "obvious nods and homages to SFAM" on Visions. Maybe I haven't listened to it enough to pick up on them.

Anyway, this is my ranking.

1. The Mountain
2. Aquarius
3. Affinity
4. Virus
5. Vector
6. Visions

[jammindude]

I swear that the bridge section of Portals is a straight up intentional rip off (in a very tasteful "we're paying homage" kind of way) to Overture 1928. But there is a list of other similarities that I'm too tired to list tonight.

Nighty night... zzz

EDIT - off the top of my head...the majestic overture with the string section patch in the keyboards and the reincarnation theme. But there's more. I'm tired.

[Deadeye21]

We're doing a ranking? Alright, I'm in.

6. Aquarius - Sorry guys, not a huge fan of this one. I got into Haken post-Affinitour, probably early 2018. It's not that I don't have a good time with thus album, it's great, but this is just so far outside of what I turn to Haken for that it falls to the bottom for me.
Highlights: Aquarium, Drowning in the Flood, Celestial Elixir

5. Vector - I love this album. First new album I was on board for, and it was on this tour that I got to see them for the first time (including meet and greet + lessons with Charlie and Ray). Over time though, it's proven to be less than I thought it was upon release. A 7 track album, and one of them is an intro tape? Not the best, though it all makes sense now.
Highlights: Good Doctor, Veil, Nil By Mouth

4. Visions - Another great album. I need to stop saying this, because they all are. Visions suffers from the fact that the rest of the album feels very much overpowered by the title track and Nocturnal Conspiracy. Which is more of a problem because I think Nocturnal might actually be my least favourite track on the whole thing. Mind's Eye-Shapeshifter is a great 3 song run though, and Premonition serving as a full on overture is awesome.
Highlights: Portals, Deathless, Visions

3. The Mountain - This and my number 2 pick are often interchangeable, I just happened to listen to this less recently so it's lower down. This album is the most perfect balance of ballads and bangers. It's not often you get an album that can open with something as airy as The Path and end with something as dark and downtrodden as Somebody, yet find room for lounge jazz piano solos, optimistic choruses and outright neck-breakingly heavy riffs. Mountain rules! Cutting it down to three highlights sucks, because there's way too many tracks deserving of the spotlight.
Highlights: Atlas Stone, Because It's There, Falling Back to Earth.


2. Virus - Vector's ending was too open ended? Yeah, that's for good reason. As Quantum of Solace is to Casino Royale or (retroactively) A New Hope to Rogue One, so is Virus to Vector. And yet, this one trumps it beyond measure. There are great hooks all over this thing, a myriad of callbacks to previous records and so much world building. You want Haken to go more in the direction of Tool and Karnivool? You get Carousel. Wanna hear what it would've been like if they were involved in Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds? Well, there's an instrumental hook shared between Prosthetic and Messiah Complex that has you covered. Nah, too much heavy? Have the restraint offered by Canary Yellow. And, being a sequel, we'll even let Clear have a reprise, but with vocals! The songs left unmentioned are no slouch either, with the building syllables of Invasion's verses being a vocal highlight, and The Sect proving as a perfect go-between for the heavy and light tracks either side.
Highlights: Prosthetic, Carousel, Messiah Complex

1. Affinity - Bleeps and bloops of machinery whirring to life give way to a rhythmic pulse. A moment of rest, and you're thrown into my favourite Haken album. I'm 23 (nearly 24), so I wasn't around for the 80s, but there's such a nostalgic feel to each song here. 1985 is a masterpiece for Diego's synth, Bound By Gravity gives me one of the warmest feelings that any song ever has, The Architect is heavy as all hell, Red Giant is haunting, Earthshine is one of the most upbeat tracks in their discography, and the breakdown of The Endless Knot will be played on an endless loop if I ever have my own nightclub. Everything that Haken has been up to this point comes to a head on this album, and you can see why they had to take such a different approach for the following two albums. This was also my introduction to Haken's music (since my first experience as a whole was through Shattered Fortress), so I hold a particular soft spot with this one. A certain Affinity, if you will.

Highlight: 1985, Architect, Endless Knot.

[hefdaddy42]

My ranking is similar to jammindude's with the exception that I would put the Restoration EP right behind The Mountain.

[Deadeye21]

Also, is there a band that does reprises better than Haken? Streams in Celestial Elixir, Premonition in Visions, Initiate in Architect and Bound By Gravity, 1985 in Endless Knot and the countless Cockroach King references across Vector and Virus. These guys do it very very right!

[Revenge319]

Also, is there a band that does reprises better than Haken? Streams in Celestial Elixir, Premonition in Visions, Initiate in Architect and Bound By Gravity, 1985 in Endless Knot and the countless Cockroach King references across Vector and Virus. These guys do it very very right!

The Dear Hunter has some great reprises all across their "Acts" albums, especially in Act IV and Act V.

[WilliamMunny]

Wow...thank you to everyone who replied!

I listened to 'The Mountain' again on the way into work this morning and damn, that is a solid slice of music.

That being said, I now remember what it was that presented a barrier of entry for me all those years back when I first gave this album a listen—'Cockroach King' is just not at all anything I'm into. I get that this is a fan-favourite, but man, this song does nothing for me.

Interestingly enough, in my intial listen-through last week, it was the 'Vector/Virus' albums that really caught my ear, which are apparently lower on most fans' lists.

I always wondered what it was that 'newer' DT fans saw when they would list albums like D/T or Black Clouds as their favourite, but obviously, anyone who wasn't there from the beginning has a totally different perspective on albums like 'Awake' or 'Scenes.' I suppose, with Haken, I'm approaching their catalog the same way.

[Revenge319]

Here are my Haken rankings:

1. The Mountain
2. Vector
3. Affinity
4. Visions
5. Aquarius
6. Virus

3-6 could be sorted in any order for me. I think all of these albums are really great. On top of that, I think Haken has the most consistently great discography out of any band I've listened to.

[ariich]

That being said, I now remember what it was that presented a barrier of entry for me all those years back when I first gave this album a listen—'Cockroach King' is just not at all anything I'm into. I get that this is a fan-favourite, but man, this song does nothing for me.

Interestingly enough, in my intial listen-through last week, it was the 'Vector/Virus' albums that really caught my ear, which are apparently lower on most fans' lists.

They are also, ironically, based on Cockroach King.

My ranking is still:

1. The Mountain
2. Virus
3. Vector
4. Affinity
5. Visions
6. Aquarius

Although I've been on a bit of an Affinity kick recently so 3 and 4 are probably pretty interchangeable now.

[WilliamMunny]

That being said, I now remember what it was that presented a barrier of entry for me all those years back when I first gave this album a listen—'Cockroach King' is just not at all anything I'm into. I get that this is a fan-favourite, but man, this song does nothing for me.

Interestingly enough, in my intial listen-through last week, it was the 'Vector/Virus' albums that really caught my ear, which are apparently lower on most fans' lists.

They are also, ironically, based on Cockroach King.[/b][/i][/u]

I know—go figure

[King Postwhore]

Mine would be,

1. The Mountain
2. Affinity
3. Virus
4. Vector
5. Visions
6. Aquarius

[gmillerdrake]

I'd go:

1. The Mountain
2. Visions
3. Affinity
4. Aquarius
5. Vector
6. Virus