Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[cramx3]

If the band just said why the album was delayed, there might not even be a Diego rumor, but people wanted answers and that was the theory with some evidence of Deigo's distance to the band lately and now the album is out and he's mostly buried. Now I'm starting to legit wonder about his status in the band.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

Virus is pretty cool. I don’t really have a whole lot to say about it other than it’s pretty relentless. Definitely lost track of what was going on somewhere in The Messiah Complex. Will take some digesting.

Reflecting a bit....When Vector came out, I absolutely loved it. Though after a month or two I felt the excitement kinda wear off. Then I revisited Affinity and it became my favorite Haken album, which was previously Visions. Affinity is still my favorite to this day.

I love heavy Haken, but it’s not my favorite Haken.

[Ben_Jamin]

My physical copy is not shipping until the 31st...

But, I am downloading it now.

[gmillerdrake]

After a few listens I can safely say 'Virus' is my least favorite Haken album. That's not to say it's 'bad'......there are some cool sections and instrumentation but for me.....I like the more melodic/progressive Haken over metal Haken. Metal Haken sounds like any number of other prog heavy metal bands out there. I thoroughly enjoy(ed) Visions/The Mountain/Restoration and Affinity. Dug Vector and thought it was pretty tight but for me.....I could sense the pull towards the heavier metal and that's not what I dig about Haken. Virus is certainly filled with some good music but I'll be honest that I fear the direction they're taking with the last two albums is a direction that will lose me if it continues in that direction. I'd prefer to see them more in the vein of their sound a few albums back.

[Pettor]

Here's my perspective as a person who just listens to a few Haken songs but tries to get into the hype every album and always fails

Vector for me really just had Puzzle Box and maybe Nil By Mouth as songs I would continue to listen to, and I seldom feel any need to listen to the album as a whole. For me songs like The Good Doctor doesn't work at all. I always lack a bit of pure beauty when listening to Haken. You know those moments when there's just a piano playing something beautiful without any need for overly complex "cool" stuff going on.

Back to Virus. I actually like this. This is maybe the best album I heard from Haken even. I am not sure if this will be the first album where I go back and listen to it over and over in it's full glory but I really hope so. Maybe it's even the album that got me into the band? That's not to say I have some gripes with it.

The album is more or less full of "crazy", "cool", "crazy", "crazier", "cool", "craziest", "coolest" moments and very dense. I really lack a "slow", "beautiful" or "atmospheric" in there. Honestly I believe this album could cure hunger around the world because it's so dense I stop feeling the need to eat. There's never any good breathing ground or strong build up to the crazier moments.

Prosthetic is a good opener but nothing I will put on repeat really. However it's full of twists and turns and keeps the energy going. A lot better than The Good Doctor imo that just put me off Vector instantly. I think the main chorus isn't for me but just when I am about to get a bit boored there's some cool change that keeps me listening.

Invasion sounds like something I hear on every Haken album. "Why is there bla something problem blaaaaa". I must have heard this before. Something about the melody and the way the singer sounds like a keyboard sample that just reminds me of other Haken songs. Anyway it's pretty ok but the overall melodies aren't that memorable. Actually makes me think that Haken could need a good Petrucci solo now and then. Maybe that's swearing for Haken fans but if Petrucci would pull of a soaring guitar solo near the end there I would honestly like this a bit more.

Anyway Carousel is where it starts getting more interesting! This is much more memorable in some ways. Strong melodies and good flow / variation! Not that typical Haken thing where melodies get 5th priority and crazy stuff gets 1, 2, 3 and 4th priority. I love how the guitar is working beneath the vocals just before the chorus. The songs has some great breakdown moments before it gets back at full speed. Good stuff!

The Strain maybe needs some more time for me but I like the change near the end where it get's a bit calm before going back to speed. Sometimes I feel Haken should just let those calm moment last a bit longer. Are they in a hurry? Great transition into Canary Yellow and some stronger melodies once again. It's a good calmer song with some unusually nice vocal parts.

Messiah Complex. Haha, honestly I am not even close to give my final thoughts on this one. I hear the recurring themes from other albums but honestly don't know the concept. It's just filled with tons of crazy stuff but I do feel excited every time Yellow Canary finishes. Good sign! Sometimes Haken feels so good at the crazy stuff that most songs feels like they follow the same template. This however has so many different sections that really stands out. Disjointed, but cool sections. Ivory Tower has a great melody! However there's these Nintendo sounds with a reprise of a melody, from some Vector I think, and that really sounds off.

Overall this album feels like it delivers on a consistently high level. Just that it's loud, crazy and dense. It's strange how Dream Theater almost feels light, super melodic and even a bit simple after listening to an album of Haken. But also understand that this can be a criticism! Haken should really calm down sometimes and just try to incorporate more simple, strong melodies and just stay away from crazy a bit more. It's like suspense. If you use it all the time it won't be as dramatic. Haken is soooooo good at crazy they do it in their sleep, but since it's there all the time it takes a way bit of the magic. The slower moment doesn't even last a minute before it's back to crazy. I can't even imagine how good this would be with more build ups to those moments.

I really like BTBAM Parallax 2 and somehow that's the best reference I have to this album. It starts of with a calm intro before going into the melodic Astral Body that perfectly builds up to Lay Your Ghosts to Rest, which is just complex, heavy and crazy. This is what I need more of here. Parallax 2 has a far better flow and variation than this album from what I can tell. When the crazy hits it hits so damn hard because it built up to it and I am ready.

Will come back to Messiah Complex again when my brain understands a bit more of it. Also, can someone please tell me what the story is here? I understand it's about Cockroach King, but what is the story there? Are all albums connected? Vector and Virus obviously seems connected.

[kaos2900]

Virus is pretty cool. I don't really have a whole lot to say about it other than it's pretty relentless. Definitely lost track of what was going on somewhere in The Messiah Complex. Will take some digesting.

Reflecting a bit....When Vector came out, I absolutely loved it. Though after a month or two I felt the excitement kinda wear off. Then I revisited Affinity and it became my favorite Haken album, which was previously Visions. Affinity is still my favorite to this day.

I love heavy Haken, but it's not my favorite Haken.

100% agree with this. Affinity continues to grow and has replace Visions as my favorite Haken album.

[Zydar]

I still haven't learned to love Visions (the album). It's weird because I really should love it, it's very DT influenced - some say it's even an homage to SFAM.

But aside from the title track, there's nothing there that interest me. And I usually rank it last among the Haken albums.

[Elite]

When it came out, I was probably one of the biggest Haken fanboys in the world and I thought it was amazing, better than Aquarius even. It hasn't aged that well for me either, and I think I rank it last as well. That said, I still think it's a very good album, and some of the stuff on there is what I consider top Haken (Portals, Shapeshifter and Deathless most notably).

[goo-goo]

All I can say is that Vector/Virus are fun albums. They are not the band's best work but they are enjoyable. Still think The Mountain and Affinity are Haken's best works to date.

[mike099]

All I can say is that Vector/Virus are fun albums. They are not the band's best work but they are enjoyable. Still think The Mountain and Affinity are Haken's best works to date.
[/quote

Agree

Hope to see Haken headline again in the future

[Kwyjibo]

Some random thoughts:

Visions is my favorite Haken record and I don't see the SFAM comparison at all. Maybe a small DT influence but that's all.

The Good Doctor is a phenomenal song.

I have listened to Virus once but can't really comment, too much going on. Needs more listens.

[gzarruk]

I still think The Mountain is their best, but Visions is a close 2nd.

[jammindude]

I'm a little disappointed that my ultra package from a place called Music Glue (I believe it was through the band website) said that mine shipped on the 17th...but because I didn't pay for premium shipment, it could take anywhere from 7 to *27* business days...and no tracking. It also said that I could arrive as late as Sep 4th, and that if I didn't receive it by then, I should contact them.

So even though I preordered, I could be waiting another 5 weeks.  

[ariich]

I'm a little disappointed that my ultra package from a place called Music Glue (I believe it was through the band website) said that mine shipped on the 17th...but because I didn't pay for premium shipment, it could take anywhere from 7 to *27* business days...and no tracking. It also said that I could arrive as late as Sep 4th, and that if I didn't receive it by then, I should contact them.

So even though I preordered, I could be waiting another 5 weeks.  

Pretty sure Music Glue are UK-based, so it will depend entirely on the speed and reliability of international shipping. I also ordered from Music Glue and for UK orders it said the same thing but with shorter timescales ("It usually takes 1-11 working days for orders to reach your location. On rare occasions it can take up to 17 working days."), but it arrived after 2 days.

[Evermind]

I'm a little disappointed that my ultra package from a place called Music Glue (I believe it was through the band website) said that mine shipped on the 17th...but because I didn't pay for premium shipment, it could take anywhere from 7 to *27* business days...and no tracking. It also said that I could arrive as late as Sep 4th, and that if I didn't receive it by then, I should contact them.

So even though I preordered, I could be waiting another 5 weeks.  

Ordered from Music Glue/Omerch too, mine hasn't even shipped yet.

[cramx3]

Oof, I'd just cancel and get a digital download.  If you want to physical, buy it via other means or wait awhile until things settle down with the covid world we are in.  After the album release delays, I don't think I could be patient to wait another 5 weeks while everyone else was listening.  But then again, there are streaming services to hold you over too.

[emtee]

I remember buying the inaugural edition of Classic Rock Presents Prog magazine. There was an accompanying CD with, at that time, relatively unknown prog bands. Haken was included. From that one song, I bought Aquarius and fell hard for it. I pimped the band big time at MP's site. But for some reason, I never bought any more of their albums. I heard rave reviews for every one, but my music buying was out of control. Now, after buying this one, I  feel like buying everything else.

[cramx3]

I remember buying the inaugural edition of Classic Rock Presents Prog magazine. There was an accompanying CD with, at that time, relatively unknown prog bands. Haken was included. From that one song, I bought Aquarius and fell hard for it. I pimped the band big time at MP's site. But for some reason, I never bought any more of their albums. I heard rave reviews for every one, but my music buying was out of control. Now, after buying this one, I  feel like buying everything else.

Well sounds like you've just been waiting for the perfect time to discover a lot of good music.  Enjoy the journey.

[Ben_Jamin]

I ordered from Century Media and my T-shirt bundle won't be shipped until the Thursday on the 31st.

But, it included a digital download. So I still get to listen to it at least.

[me7]

My CD from Insideout arrived today.

I wonder where the people ordered who got their deliveries last week?

[Buddyhunter1]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Haken/comments/hx796o/its_all_a_big_nocturnal_conspiracy_which_other/

BTBAM references, Periphery references, references to Sabaton and Dream Theater as well as some reprises of Opeth songs. They're all connected to tell the story of Cockroach King.

I think I lost a few brain cells reading this

[Revenge319]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Haken/comments/hx796o/its_all_a_big_nocturnal_conspiracy_which_other/

BTBAM references, Periphery references, references to Sabaton and Dream Theater as well as some reprises of Opeth songs. They're all connected to tell the story of Cockroach King.

I think I lost a few brain cells reading this

I saw some guy on there saying that the lyrics "Garden of delights" was obviously a reference to the Opeth song Garden of Earthly Delights. Like, he knew that the phrase has been around for a super-long time, but he insisted that this was intentionally referencing the song, and wasn't just a coincidence or anything.

[Crow]

messiah complex actually references every piece of music ever made, including music that has yet to be made, in one way or another

[cramx3]

I definitely noticed lots of haken references, most of which felt familiar but couldn't immediately pinpoint it but the puzzle box references stood out. I definitely enjoy this more than puzzle box though. I feel people liked that the most on Vector but it wasnt my top song, so I think I like these references more in Mesiah Complex

[erwinrafael]

After being stuck with Visions as my favorite album from Haken, I feel that I am not really in the target audience of the band. I love Visions, has been my companion for two hour bus rides back in the early 2010s.

Virus for me is embodied by the song Invasion. There is a good song in there. But I just felt that the band unnecessarily makes it sound complicated to flash their prog credentials. That is why I said before that these last two albums felt like their DT SC / BCSL moment, that era when DT became technically complicated for its own sake. There are lots of moments in Virus where I felt like singing even dancing along, but I was stopped by a sudden odd beat riff, a change in melodic progression, or a blast beat that does not serve the music.

[cramx3]

The beginning of Invasion sounds like Leprous, not surprising since they both toured together and both have some awesome drumming

[Nick]

The number of people in the last week who have said that Visions is their favorite album, or was their favorite album until x, is highly disappointing to me.

[jammindude]

This album might have to sink in with me a little bit, but I listened to all the tracks individually online on YouTube and I have to say that while I think it is slightly better than Vector, my sentiments about their sound in general echo those of the masses. (And I hate it when that happens!!)

My favorite thing about Haken is that they could take these heavy moments and then blend them with such beautiful harmonies. Sometimes they had entire songs that were all about harmonies and it was so beautiful in contrast with some of the heavier moments on the rest of the album.  Vector and Virus seem to be more focused on "soft bits" to contrast "loud and heavy bits" rather than to create beautiful harmonious pieces.

There's not a single moment even remotely resembling anything like the gorgeous happy feeling you get from listening to Streams. Even the quiet bits seems more like an ominous setup than a joyous celebration. But that could be just due to the subject of the concept.

But even The Mountain is such a HAPPY album to me. It's so positive and up building in every way I can think of. In fact I think that's it. I think every album up until the Vector/Virus concept has had something in the mix that made me feel a sense of joy and happiness. Nothing on the last two albums have given me that feeling.

[ariich]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Haken/comments/hx796o/its_all_a_big_nocturnal_conspiracy_which_other/

BTBAM references, Periphery references, references to Sabaton and Dream Theater as well as some reprises of Opeth songs. They're all connected to tell the story of Cockroach King.

I think I lost a few brain cells reading this

I saw some guy on there saying that the lyrics "Garden of delights" was obviously a reference to the Opeth song Garden of Earthly Delights. Like, he knew that the phrase has been around for a super-long time, but he insisted that this was intentionally referencing the song, and wasn't just a coincidence or anything.

There's a portion of the fanbase who love the idea of a "Hakenverse" where everything is connected. It's quite entertaining, and quite creative. Some people just do it for fun and know that the band hasn't actually created such a thing, although some people are convinced it's all real. I'm 95% certain the only proper connections are Cockroach King, Vector and Virus. But the band loves to throw in lots of other references and easter eggs which is what fuels all this stuff.

After being stuck with Visions as my favorite album from Haken, I feel that I am not really in the target audience of the band. I love Visions, has been my companion for two hour bus rides back in the early 2010s.

Virus for me is embodied by the song Invasion. There is a good song in there. But I just felt that the band unnecessarily makes it sound complicated to flash their prog credentials. That is why I said before that these last two albums felt like their DT SC / BCSL moment, that era when DT became technically complicated for its own sake. There are lots of moments in Virus where I felt like singing even dancing along, but I was stopped by a sudden odd beat riff, a change in melodic progression, or a blast beat that does not serve the music.

I disagree with all of this in general, but also SC & BCSL were not especially technically complicated so it's a weird analogy to begin with.

The beginning of Invasion sounds like Leprous, not surprising since they both toured together and both have some awesome drumming

Yeah Invasion has aspects of Leprous and Periphery mixed in with a typical big emotional Haken chorus. I love it so much.

This album might have to sink in with me a little bit, but I listened to all the tracks individually online on YouTube and I have to say that while I think it is slightly better than Vector, my sentiments about their sound in general echo those of the masses. (And I hate it when that happens!!)

This isn't to discredit your views at all, but specifically on the point about the "masses", this album is actually going down super well so far, both with the Haken fanbase and wider prog fanbase.

My favorite thing about Haken is that they could take these heavy moments and then blend them with such beautiful harmonies. Sometimes they had entire songs that were all about harmonies and it was so beautiful in contrast with some of the heavier moments on the rest of the album.  Vector and Virus seem to be more focused on "soft bits" to contrast "loud and heavy bits" rather than to create beautiful harmonious pieces.

Oh man, I disagree so much about the lack of rich harmonies. I sort of agree with Vector - some songs had it (Puzzle Box and Host, mainly) but there was definitely less of it, whereas I think Virus is a return to their wonderful melodic and harmonic approach. It's darker and heavier still, of course, and some of the songs need to time to grow (I'll be interested to see what you think once you've given the full album some proper listens), but it's musically very rich, more so than Vector and comparable with their other albums.

There's not a single moment even remotely resembling anything like the gorgeous happy feeling you get from listening to Streams. Even the quiet bits seems more like an ominous setup than a joyous celebration. But that could be just due to the subject of the concept.

But even The Mountain is such a HAPPY album to me. It's so positive and up building in every way I can think of. In fact I think that's it. I think every album up until the Vector/Virus concept has had something in the mix that made me feel a sense of joy and happiness. Nothing on the last two albums have given me that feeling.

Well now, happy is not the same as harmonious. I like how they blended happy sounds with heavy and melancholy ones on Affinity and to some extent The Mountain (although I really wouldn't call it a happy album at all, it's actually very sad - but I would call it cathartic), but on Aquarius I don't think two blend together nearly as well, which is a large part of why it's my least favourite Haken album.

Like I said, the harmonic approach on this album is classic Haken IMO and there's more variety of tone than on Vector (e.g. Canary Yellow being much lighter), but I agree there isn't really anything happy on Vector/Virus. But as I've said a number of times before, that's not about "what the band's sound is now", it's what they were going for on this two-part concept album(s). Fair enough if it's less to your tastes, can't argue with that, but it doesn't signal what the band's sound is now, just like Affinity didn't signal that the band was going to be all spacey and poppy from now on. And honestly, apart from being heavier and crunchier, I think it's tonally closest to The Mountain, which I think is why I like it so much.

[Elite]

My CD from Insideout arrived today.

I wonder where the people ordered who got their deliveries last week?

InsideOut (Europe). It arrived on the Friday. Vinyl.
Maybe CDs are later?

[Revenge319]

Like I said, the harmonic approach on this album is classic Haken IMO and there's more variety of tone than on Vector (e.g. Canary Yellow being much lighter), but I agree there isn't really anything happy on Vector/Virus. But as I've said a number of times before, that's not about "what the band's sound is now", it's what they were going for on this two-part concept album(s). Fair enough if it's less to your tastes, can't argue with that, but it doesn't signal what the band's sound is now, just like Affinity didn't signal that the band was going to be all spacey and poppy from now on. And honestly, apart from being heavier and crunchier, I think it's tonally closest to The Mountain, which I think is why I like it so much.

That's exactly what I've been thinking for a while now. I've seen quite a few people say that Haken's losing them because of the direction of Virus, but I think it's unlikely their next album is going to be similar to either Vector or Virus. As you said, this is the sound they're going for with a two-part concept album, and not what they're going to stick to from now on.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

The number of people in the last week who have said that Visions is their favorite album, or was their favorite album until x, is highly disappointing to me.

I'm actually quite surprised Visions isn't considered by many to be one of their best, at least around here. I became a fan of them a year or so before the Mountain came out and Visions absolutely floored me. I still think it holds up quite well. Nocturnal Conspiracy and Visions are two of their best songs, I think.

[ariich]

I love Visions still, but I love everything they've done since more.

[erwinrafael]

The number of people in the last week who have said that Visions is their favorite album, or was their favorite album until x, is highly disappointing to me.

I'm actually quite surprised Visions isn't considered by many to be one of their best, at least around here. I became a fan of them a year or so before the Mountain came out and Visions absolutely floored me. I still think it holds up quite well. Nocturnal Conspiracy and Visions are two of their best songs, I think.

The Visions - The Mountain period had their best melodies. I can listen to the Mind's Eye - Portals - Shapeshifter suite all day. The next albums just became too riff-driven (actually djenty) to my taste.

[cramx3]

Visions is still my favorite, just a really strong prog metal album from start to finish.  It's a bit "prog metal by the numbers" though which I get why it may not be everyone's favorite and why people will compare it to DT, but that doesn't really bother me.  Affinity is my next favorite followed by the Mountain.  I'm not sure where Virus goes yet, I still have a lot more listening to do, but I kind of don't think it's better than the three albums I just mentioned.  It may be better than Vector though, and I still have yet to get Aquarius. 

Like I said, the harmonic approach on this album is classic Haken IMO and there's more variety of tone than on Vector (e.g. Canary Yellow being much lighter), but I agree there isn't really anything happy on Vector/Virus. But as I've said a number of times before, that's not about "what the band's sound is now", it's what they were going for on this two-part concept album(s). Fair enough if it's less to your tastes, can't argue with that, but it doesn't signal what the band's sound is now, just like Affinity didn't signal that the band was going to be all spacey and poppy from now on. And honestly, apart from being heavier and crunchier, I think it's tonally closest to The Mountain, which I think is why I like it so much.

That's exactly what I've been thinking for a while now. I've seen quite a few people say that Haken's losing them because of the direction of Virus, but I think it's unlikely their next album is going to be similar to either Vector or Virus. As you said, this is the sound they're going for with a two-part concept album, and not what they're going to stick to from now on.

I'm just not sure how we can say what their next album will sound like.  Will the next album drop the keyboards completely?  That would certainly make for a different sound and style.  While their history shows they've got some various styles on each album, that doesn't mean the next one will be different.  Who knows?  I feel like the only thing we can base our predictions on are the fact they've gotten much more heavier and technical since The Mountain.