Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[Pettor]

In my opinion Anno Domini High Definition (ADHD). It took some time to digest for me and definitely is their most progmetal sounding record, but it's crazy good. However the new Wasteland album is easier to digest and just delicious. If you like any of them just continue to digest their discography. Their records always sound amazing and they just don't waste time doing bad songs.

But that's for the Riverside thread imo just to not take this off topic 

[Zydar]

Okay, thanks!

[jammindude]

Re: Riverside

ADHD grabbed me instantly and it's still my favorite. Most people tend to say their 2nd album Second Life Syndrome is their best. Those are the two I would start with.

[ariich]

I've never heard Riverside. Which album should I check out?

Any of them, they're all basically the same.

I find Riverside a bit dull and very overrated, and I didn't even know they were scored so high on prog archives until this thread.

[jammindude]

There is a very Pink Floyd-ish, atmospheric approach to most of their stuff. ADHD has a little less of that, which is why I think it's a better starting point.

[Pettor]

There is a very Pink Floyd-ish, atmospheric approach to most of their stuff. ADHD has a little less of that, which is why I think it's a better starting point.

Yeah definitely! It's not that they sound a lot like Pink Floyd really but it's like they share the same qualities. Their ability to often use less to achieve more and like you say, the atmosphere. Maybe you can say they paint the music with similar tools  It doesn't hurt that their production is similar to the best of Pink Floyd as well.

BTW both Riverside and Pink Floyd was dull to me before they became amazing.

[ariich]

Pink Floyd were amazing (at their best anyway) because they combined the atmospheric qualities with strong melodies, which I just don't really get from Riverside.

[Pettor]

Pink Floyd were amazing (at their best anyway) because they combined the atmospheric qualities with strong melodies, which I just don't really get from Riverside.

Hehe I do like how different people can see music since that is exactly how I could describe Riverside as well. What do you feel about a song like Escalator Shrine that actually sounds like an awesome Pink Floyd song?

[Buddyhunter1]

Riverside has a handful of good albums but ADHD is easily their best and might be one of the best progressive rock albums ever made.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

I prefer Lunatic Soul over Riverside honestly.

But yes, Haken.

[Elite]

Here's another Haken albums ranking:

Affinity
Aquarius
Mountain, The
Restoration
Vector
Virus
Visions

And in order of favourite to least (for me):

1. Aquarius
2. Affinity
3. The Mountain
4. Virus
5. Visions
6. Vector
(7. Restoration)

Virus placement tentative, and I guess Visions and Vector could swap around now and then.

[Revenge319]

I'm surprised at how well-liked A Cell Divides is. Like, I don't see it in Top 10 lists, but I've heard basically no negativity about the song, and it seems exactly like the kind of song people would complain about. Let me put it this way: If Dream Theater made A Cell Divides, I think a very large portion of the fanbase would hate it to death and say Dream Theater's selling out or something.

But hey, I'm not complaining, I think A Cell Divides is a pretty great song.

[NoFred]

Songs all close, only top 3 are set in stone:
1. Pareidolia
2. The Architect
3. 1985
4. Carousel
5. Puzzle Box
6. Atlas Stone
7. Bound By Gravity
8. Visions
9. Streams
10. Earthrise

1. Affinity
2. The Mountain
3. Vector + Virus
4. Visions
5. Aquarius
6. Restoration EP

A Cell Divides is good too

[Nick]

Along with Haken, Riverside are one of the true modern gems in the genre to me. I love pretty much all their stuff, but I'd go with Second Life Syndrome to start.

I will say that even though I consider myself a bigger Haken fan, Riverside live are better than Haken live. Sound is always great, they all come through the mix so well, and it's a very pure and organic experience.

[Pettor]

Riverside live is One of the most surprisingly fantastic experience I have been to. One of the best ever for me. Sounds great and energy was through the roof!

[jammindude]

I really don't want to turn this into a second Riverside thread, but I have to concur. When Wasteland came out I was not a fan. But seeing the Wasteland  tour live changed my attitude about the material.

[Elite]

Riverside are absolutely fantastic on stage.





I also like Haken.

[me7]

I also like Haken.

Never heard of them. We should start a thread about them.

[Zydar]

Haha yeah, that Haken band has a lovely album out too.

[The Letter M]

I've never heard Riverside. Which album should I check out?

In my opinion Anno Domini High Definition (ADHD). It took some time to digest for me and definitely is their most progmetal sounding record, but it's crazy good. However the new Wasteland album is easier to digest and just delicious. If you like any of them just continue to digest their discography. Their records always sound amazing and they just don't waste time doing bad songs.

But that's for the Riverside thread imo just to not take this off topic 

Going to agree with Pettor and others here, ADHD is a great starting point. It was Riverside's newest album when I first got into them, and then I worked my way back, though if you must know their first three albums form a trilogy, so you might want to check those out in release order. Anything after that is fair game for which order you check. ADHD is also their shortest album, I believe, so it's definitely easier to digest.

They do have prog metal elements throughout their works, but I'd also say there's just as much atmospheric/Floydian elements as well. They've got a great sound if you're into those things!

But yes, Haken is good too!

-Marc.

[Kram]

I'm no drummer, but it seems to me that ever since the rest of the guys went out with Portnoy for the Shattered Fortress, Ray has really stepped up his game.  The drumming on Virus is ridiculous.  He was also awesome on Vector.  Maybe he felt like he had something to prove?

Anyways, here's how I now rank them -

1. The Mountain
2. Virus
3. Affinity
4. Visions / Vector (can change daily)
6. Restoration

I still haven't picked up Aquarius yet.  I'll need to fix that soon!

[LordCost]

1. The Mountain
2. Aquarius
3. Virus
4. Visions
5. Vector
6. Restoration EP
7. Affinity

[emtee]

I'm no drummer, but it seems to me that ever since the rest of the guys went out with Portnoy for the Shattered Fortress, Ray has really stepped up his game.  The drumming on Virus is ridiculous.  He was also awesome on Vector.  Maybe he felt like he had something to prove?

Anyways, here's how I now rank them -

1. The Mountain
2. Virus
3. Affinity
4. Visions / Vector (can change daily)
6. Restoration

I still haven't picked up Aquarius yet.  I'll need to fix that soon!

This is one of the best drum performances I've ever heard. Period!

[devieira73]

Ray was a very good drummer since Aquarius, but he's getting better since then and it's clear to my ears that he had 3 phases of development: Aquarius/Visions; The Mountain/Restoration/Affinity; and Virus/Vector, in which he became a phenomenal drummer!

[gmillerdrake]

Ray was a very good drummer since Aquarius, but he's getting better since then and it's clear to my ears that he had 3 phases of development: Aquarius/Visions; The Mountain/Restoration/Affinity; and Virus/Vector, in which he became a phenomenal drummer!

Man.....I have to say I disagree but it's largely due to I prefer Hakens sound leading into Vector/Virus more than the heavier sound of Vector/Virus. I appreciated his drumming style more in those albums rather than the last two. The last two sound great....don't get me wrong.....and I think he's on fire as well. I just prefer the more nuanced Haken that built atmosphere and created a textured approach to their songs. The last two albums are more in your face.....they're heavier and they abandon that atmospheric approach that they had been famous for....to the point of Diego is non existent in Virus and Ross's singing style feels out of place.

I 'like' Virus.....it's good and all but for me it's not the Haken sound I grew to love and enjoy. It's Haken trying to sound heavy metal.

[devieira73]

I see what you mean, I understand that you prefer Ray's style associated to those albums. But I think that technically he's playing more difficult parts than before and he's playing on Vector and Virus for the heavier style of those albums. Also I believe if Haken had recorded The Mountain and Affinity (by the way, my favorite Haken albums) after Vector and Virus, I'm sure we would hear the same evolution from him. He does sound like someone who is still studying and learning new things on drums.

[GasparXR]

I could never do a top 10 songs. More so than any other band I think it would just kill me. But I can rank the albums.

The Mountain
Visions
Affinity
Vector/Virus
Aquarius

And to be honest, it's hard to put anything at the bottom. Last year I would've put Vector at the bottom. But now that I've heard the complete piece of work, I can't help but see them as a single two CD album. And they're both better for it.

I am officially declaring this the best opening six albums of any prog rock band I can think of.  There is not a single note from any of these six albums that I don't absolutely adore.

Wow! I think I remember you saying some time ago that Affinity was your #1 and The Mountain was your #2. What about Visions made you end up loving it more?

[Crow]

Riverside has a handful of good albums but ADHD is easily their best and might be one of the best progressive rock albums ever made.

^this

[jammindude]

I could never do a top 10 songs. More so than any other band I think it would just kill me. But I can rank the albums.

The Mountain
Visions
Affinity
Vector/Virus
Aquarius

And to be honest, it's hard to put anything at the bottom. Last year I would've put Vector at the bottom. But now that I've heard the complete piece of work, I can't help but see them as a single two CD album. And they're both better for it.

I am officially declaring this the best opening six albums of any prog rock band I can think of.  There is not a single note from any of these six albums that I don't absolutely adore.

Wow! I think I remember you saying some time ago that Affinity was your #1 and The Mountain was your #2. What about Visions made you end up loving it more?

When Affinity first came out, it was really close. But I don't think I ever claimed it was my #1.  At one point, I think I made the statement that it "might be superior musically, but thematically, The Mountain was unbeatable"

So Affinity was never going to top The Mountain (which LITERALLY saved me from an incredibly dark chapter in my life, and may have in fact saved me from giving up entirely) but as time has gone by, I've just fallen in love with Visions. It's not only a great homage to SFAM (baffled at how there are a few that don't see the blatant similarities) but may have equaled it....but not quite. But the musical nuggets are all there to make it a masterpiece.

TBH....all six of these album are so good that this list could shuffle entirely on mood. But for personal reasons, The Mountain will always be my #1 Haken album, and maybe even 2 or 3 all time.

[Zydar]

jammindude: It's amazing how music can help people in dark and difficult times. If one Haken album can do that, it's The Mountain.

[ariich]

The Mountain really is a very special album.

And yeah Haken's run is my favourite first-six-albums by any band ever, the only other one that I think comes close is The Dear Hunter (their first seven albums in fact).

[jammindude]

Somebody had mentioned Spock's Beard earlier. And I had honestly forgotten about that six album run.  That is a very special opening six. But honestly, I do feel like Snow runs out of gas. It's about a disc and a half of 5 star material that got bloated into two discs, which makes the second disc feel a little half-baked.

The other two contenders for me are obviously Dream Theater and Rush. And even though I love the "weaker" albums of those runs more than most, doesn't change the fact that the quality of Haken's output has surpassed them both.

POS was very close. And again, I don't hate Scarsick as much as most people do, but it was a letdown after the first four...and then BE which I still sometimes can't figure out if I really love it, or I'm just fascinated by it.

[Fritzinger]

Somebody had mentioned Spock's Beard earlier. And I had honestly forgotten about that six album run.  That is a very special opening six. But honestly, I do feel like Snow runs out of gas. It's about a disc and a half of 5 star material that got bloated into two discs, which makes the second disc feel a little half-baked.

The other two contenders for me are obviously Dream Theater and Rush. And even though I love the "weaker" albums of those runs more than most, doesn't change the fact that the quality of Haken's output has surpassed them both.

POS was very close. And again, I don't hate Scarsick as much as most people do, but it was a letdown after the first four...and then BE which I still sometimes can't figure out if I really love it, or I'm just fascinated by it.

People hate Scarsick?? I think Scarsick is awesome 

[Progmetty]

Last night I heard Vector and Virus back-to-back for the first time, I hadn't heard anything from either albums before this and I think they absolutely made the right choice by not making this a double album, it's really overwhelming. And after I was done I couldn't honestly recall one memorable riff or melody, it was just too much, even though I enjoyed the music while listening.
One listen isn't enough to be sure about this but I kinda feel like I get what people mean when comparing this to SC/BC&SL. Haken's first two albums sounded like they were inspired by SFAM stylistically, then The Mountain transcended anything DT has ever done IMO so the comparison dropped.
I wouldn't say Vector & Virus are similar stylistically to SC/BC&SL in particular, but pretty much a mishmash of all post-SFAM/pre-ADTOE albums, not very concrete on it, need more listens, but even if that view stands; I don't see it as a bad thing per se.
I haven't heard Affinity yet.
I don't think I'll re-listen to Vector/Virus right away, or anytime soon for that matter, another side effect from listening to them back to back.

[jammindude]

Somebody had mentioned Spock's Beard earlier. And I had honestly forgotten about that six album run.  That is a very special opening six. But honestly, I do feel like Snow runs out of gas. It's about a disc and a half of 5 star material that got bloated into two discs, which makes the second disc feel a little half-baked.

The other two contenders for me are obviously Dream Theater and Rush. And even though I love the "weaker" albums of those runs more than most, doesn't change the fact that the quality of Haken's output has surpassed them both.

POS was very close. And again, I don't hate Scarsick as much as most people do, but it was a letdown after the first four...and then BE which I still sometimes can't figure out if I really love it, or I'm just fascinated by it.

People hate Scarsick?? I think Scarsick is awesome 

I think it's got some great material...but on this forum, it occupies the last (or second to last) place on most people's POS album ranking.