Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[gzarruk]

Still no keyboardist, tho

[lonestar]

Wow... And I'd probably have a really good in for backstage privelage since a good friend of mine is really close with Russell.

[CodyWanKenobi]

Holy moly I hope that's a full tour and not just a one-off.

[cramx3]

Holy moly I hope that's a full tour and not just a one-off.

I doubt it's a one off for a band from England.

What's cool is Irving Plaza is twice the size of the typical NYC venue they would play.  I'm sure Symphony X helps sell tickets too, but it'll be cool to see Haken move onto a bigger stage.

[El Barto]

Holy moly I hope that's a full tour and not just a one-off.

I doubt it's a one off for a band from England.

What's cool is Irving Plaza is twice the size of the typical NYC venue they would play.  I'm sure Symphony X helps sell tickets too, but it'll be cool to see Haken move onto a bigger stage.

A bigger stage, yeah, but not really that one. I was fairly unimpressed with Irving Plaza. Still beats the everloving crap out of Highline, but that's hardly a ringing endorsement.

[cramx3]

Holy moly I hope that's a full tour and not just a one-off.

I doubt it's a one off for a band from England.

What's cool is Irving Plaza is twice the size of the typical NYC venue they would play.  I'm sure Symphony X helps sell tickets too, but it'll be cool to see Haken move onto a bigger stage.

A bigger stage, yeah, but not really that one. I was fairly unimpressed with Irving Plaza. Still beats the everloving crap out of Highline, but that's hardly a ringing endorsement.

Irving Plaza was just completely renovated, it was a dump I agree, but it may be nicer now.  I'll have to go to a show to find out.

[El Barto]

Holy moly I hope that's a full tour and not just a one-off.

I doubt it's a one off for a band from England.

What's cool is Irving Plaza is twice the size of the typical NYC venue they would play.  I'm sure Symphony X helps sell tickets too, but it'll be cool to see Haken move onto a bigger stage.

A bigger stage, yeah, but not really that one. I was fairly unimpressed with Irving Plaza. Still beats the everloving crap out of Highline, but that's hardly a ringing endorsement.

Irving Plaza was just completely renovated, it was a dump I agree, but it may be nicer now.  I'll have to go to a show to find out.

Well, they've certainly made it more colorful.  Ironically, the death-trap black motif was one of its few saving graces.  

[TM172003]

On another note, Ross revealed on Instagram that he was recording demos for the next Haken release.

[KevShmev]

We'll see what the next one is like. I hope it's a bounce back, for me anyway, as my interest in this band has plummeted in the last year. The combination of Virus being forgettable and Diego leaving the band has made them fall off of my "must see" list as far as concerts go.  I would have zero interest in a concert dedicated to all or most of Vector and Virus.

[Fritzinger]

We'll see what the next one is like. I hope it's a bounce back, for me anyway, as my interest in this band has plummeted in the last year. The combination of Virus being forgettable and Diego leaving the band has made them fall off of my "must see" list as far as concerts go.  I would have zero interest in a concert dedicated to all or most of Vector and Virus.

I'm very sad that Diego is leaving the band. But a concert where Vector and Virus are being played back to back would be a dream come true. I absolutely love those two albums. They are one of my favorite prog metal albums if counted together as a double album (which I think they should).

[TM172003]

They announced that they're going to be playing Vector and Virus back to back next year at Prognosis Festival in the Netherlands I think, but I'm pretty sure it's a one off.

[cramx3]

They announced that they're going to be playing Vector and Virus back to back next year at Prognosis Festival in the Netherlands I think, but I'm pretty sure it's a one off.

That would be my guess too.  Also, if this tour is legit, I wouldn't be surprised if it's coheadline with both bands getting 75 minutes. In which case, not enough time to do both albums.

[cramx3]

The date is confirmed, Haken added the event to Facebook. I'm guessing an announcement soon for a tour.

[v_clortho]

Don't they have to finish their tour with Devin Townsend? I've still got tickets!!!

[ariich]

Don't they have to finish their tour with Devin Townsend? I've still got tickets!!!

I don't have any insider info on this, but my guess is that was Devy's tour, so if the tickets are still valid, it'll be for his shows but potentially with different support.

Anyway, looks like Haken have had to go ahead and announce this seeing as the venue put the info out already

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=319955639499957

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm wondering if this is a way for both bands to complete their postponed Anniversary tours. Which were both, big moments in the bands history's that not celebrating them would be a shame.

Haken with Affinity and Symphony X with their overall 25th anniversary.

[KevShmev]

Eh, even though I would have loved seeing all of Affinity last year (okay, almost all of it, I can do without Initiate ) - it was less than a week away when the COVID shutdown happened -  Haken is still too young of a band to start doing anniversary shows. 

[KevShmev]

Given the chatter in the TA thread, I thought I would give something from the last album another try.

Just gave the Messiah Complex suite another listen. 

What a complete and utter train wreck.  It just ended and I remember zero about it, other than it felt like it just bounced from idea to idea with no rhyme or reason, and as for memorable melodies?  Nada. 

It makes me sad to see how quickly this band has fallen off the cliff. 

[Ben_Jamin]

You know who's the star of vector/virus...it's Ray. Then it's Conner.

Vector/Virus are groove and rhythm based albums. Mainly the vocals carry the melody. These set the tone for the album. And for me, it's an album that has a dark tone to it. It's not happy like Affinity. These albums are really dark in tone and atmosphere. Which is something different for the band. They never have went full on Dark. They do have some darker elements in their older albums, but the tone of the albums are not dark overall.

The story itself isnt happy, and the music and tone that is set by the band reveals this to me. There are no happy, catchy, melodies or chord progressions, because that would ruin the tone.

And the jarring parts play into the concept and, I see it as why, they made the decision to split Messiah Complex into different songs, as it is jarring when played as one song.

I actually like the contrast the band took from Happy Uplifting Affinity, to the Darker, Sinister, Uneasiness of Vector/Virus.

[jammindude]

Given the chatter in the TA thread, I thought I would give something from the last album another try.

Just gave the Messiah Complex suite another listen. 

What a complete and utter train wreck.  It just ended and I remember zero about it, other than it felt like it just bounced from idea to idea with no rhyme or reason, and as for memorable melodies?  Nada. 

It makes me sad to see how quickly this band has fallen off the cliff. 

Surprising take considering how many recalls there to some of their best songs.

I've said this before, but I thought Vector was very disappointing, but Virus felt like a much improved "act 2" of a single concept, and now I can only think of them as a double album and it really made the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

Now I love both albums, but I'm also hoping the next album gives us another big change up in direction.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Given the chatter in the TA thread, I thought I would give something from the last album another try.

Just gave the Messiah Complex suite another listen. 

What a complete and utter train wreck.  It just ended and I remember zero about it, other than it felt like it just bounced from idea to idea with no rhyme or reason, and as for memorable melodies?  Nada. 

It makes me sad to see how quickly this band has fallen off the cliff. 

Surprising take considering how many recalls there to some of their best songs.

I've said this before, but I thought Vector was very disappointing, but Virus felt like a much improved "act 2" of a single concept, and now I can only think of them as a double album and it really made the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

Now I love both albums, but I'm also hoping the next album gives us another big change up in direction.

If the rumors of Diego's departure are true (and it's looking like they are), that change in direction is almost guaranteed as a new keyboard player/songwriter will lead to different musical ideas and a new energy and chemistry within the band.

[Fritzinger]

You're right, let's take this discussion here 

Aquarius is one of the best debut albums of all time for me, but whenever I put on Vector, Virus or Affinity on right after it, Aquarius actually sounds a little childish in comparison 

For me, Haken hit a whole new level with Affinity and the last two albums. I might be one of the few people who think so, but that is 100% what I think. It was with Affinity that Haken became one of my all-time favorite bands and Vector and Virus reinforced that.

I totally disagree.  Aquarias sounds like a band chock full of energy and melodies and ideas, all of which they threw on that album, while the last two albums sound like a band who has become too focused on being metal and having crazy tempo changes and too often have forgotten what a good melody is.  Not saying the metal and tempo changes weren't always there, but the balance is just off now, IMO.  Hoping it tilts back on the next record, but losing Diego could be a crippling blow.

As I said, Aquarius is still one of the best debut albums of all (!) time for me. So I agree, Aquarius is awesome. But in my opinion, apart from Visions (which I like slightly less than the debut because it doesn't have that goofy side as much) the band only got better from album to album. That is, if you count Vector and Virus as a double album, which I do.

The melodies are still there. Veil has an amazing chorus, Puzzle Box even has more than one amazing chorus (that finale "how can truth" gets me every time!). Canary Yellow is hauntingly beautiful. Carousel should please every Mountain-fan. And The Strain stays in my head for days whenever I hear it. The melodies are there, they're just standing next to huge 8-string riffs and insane rhythm section work, which you can either love (me) or not love (you, as it looks) 

I am, however, very excited but anxious what they're gonna do without Diego. I hope they don't come up with the idea to continue without a keyboard player.

[ariich]

Now I love both albums, but I'm also hoping the next album gives us another big change up in direction.

It will.

You're right, let's take this discussion here 

Aquarius is one of the best debut albums of all time for me, but whenever I put on Vector, Virus or Affinity on right after it, Aquarius actually sounds a little childish in comparison 

For me, Haken hit a whole new level with Affinity and the last two albums. I might be one of the few people who think so, but that is 100% what I think. It was with Affinity that Haken became one of my all-time favorite bands and Vector and Virus reinforced that.

I totally disagree.  Aquarias sounds like a band chock full of energy and melodies and ideas, all of which they threw on that album, while the last two albums sound like a band who has become too focused on being metal and having crazy tempo changes and too often have forgotten what a good melody is.  Not saying the metal and tempo changes weren't always there, but the balance is just off now, IMO.  Hoping it tilts back on the next record, but losing Diego could be a crippling blow.

As I said, Aquarius is still one of the best debut albums of all (!) time for me. So I agree, Aquarius is awesome. But in my opinion, apart from Visions (which I like slightly less than the debut because it doesn't have that goofy side as much) the band only got better from album to album. That is, if you count Vector and Virus as a double album, which I do.

The melodies are still there. Veil has an amazing chorus, Puzzle Box even has more than one amazing chorus (that finale "how can truth" gets me every time!). Canary Yellow is hauntingly beautiful. Carousel should please every Mountain-fan. And The Strain stays in my head for days whenever I hear it. The melodies are there, they're just standing next to huge 8-string riffs and insane rhythm section work, which you can either love (me) or not love (you, as it looks) 

I am, however, very excited but anxious what they're gonna do without Diego. I hope they don't come up with the idea to continue without a keyboard player.

I feel pretty much exactly the same way as you, except that:
- I prefer the Mountain to the three after; and
- I'm not at all anxious about what they'll do next.

[Revenge319]

I am, however, very excited but anxious what they're gonna do without Diego. I hope they don't come up with the idea to continue without a keyboard player.

Nah, there's no way they'd do that. I get that there doesn't seem to be much keyboard stuff on Virus, but I can't possibly see Haken deciding to make music with no keyboards in the future.

[me7]

Given the chatter in the TA thread, I thought I would give something from the last album another try.

Just gave the Messiah Complex suite another listen. 

What a complete and utter train wreck.  It just ended and I remember zero about it, other than it felt like it just bounced from idea to idea with no rhyme or reason, and as for memorable melodies?  Nada. 

It makes me sad to see how quickly this band has fallen off the cliff. 

Messiah Complex is the least digestible track on the album. Sceptics should start with Invasion.

[ariich]

I am, however, very excited but anxious what they're gonna do without Diego. I hope they don't come up with the idea to continue without a keyboard player.

Nah, there's no way they'd do that. I get that there doesn't seem to be much keyboard stuff on Virus, but I can't possibly see Haken deciding to make music with no keyboards in the future.

Yeah, I would be absolutely shocked if they did that. Keys are too big a part of their sound.

Messiah Complex is the least digestible track on the album. Sceptics should start with Invasion.

Invasion is so great, my favourite on the album and one of my favourite Haken songs.

[Elite]

Invasion

[gmillerdrake]

Yeah, I would be absolutely shocked if they did that. Keys are too big a part of their sound.

Judging from Virus it's a fair judgement to say that maybe keys aren't as important to the sound they're after now? Because Diego was pretty buried and non existent in Virus.....he was merely 'around'  enough in Vector for people to say "oh....I heard a keyboardist".


We've had this discussion already...but....it's not that I don't 'like' what they've put out recently....it's good enough and all.....But I'm MUCH more of a fan of the sound they had in the first (5) albums than I am of the last two. I really hope that heavy prog metal experiment is over and they return to their earlier approach of creating great atmosphere and utilizing every member of the band. That's when they shine IMO......the sound they had in Virus is a dime a dozen.

[ariich]

Judging from Virus it's a fair judgement to say that maybe keys aren't as important to the sound they're after now?

No, it isn't. The only fair judgement in that regard is to say that's what they went for on Vector/Virus.

I know they're bigger now, but I don't remember after Affinity came out people thinking that spacey synths and electronics was "their sound now" or whatever.

[gmillerdrake]

Judging from Virus it's a fair judgement to say that maybe keys aren't as important to the sound they're after now?

No, it isn't. The only fair judgement in that regard is to say that's what they went for on Vector/Virus.

I know they're bigger now, but I don't remember after Affinity came out people thinking that spacey synths and electronics was "their sound now" or whatever.

but at least we knew that every member of the band was being utilized creatively. I'm not looking to 'pick a fight' over this or anything.....I still enjoy HAKEN greatly. I just prefer their earlier content over what we've heard from them recently. I even dig most of Vector. Virus however, for me, was such a drastic change in sound and approach that the only time I revisit it is when one of my sons plays songs from that album while in the car. I personally just find it very rudimentary for musicians of their skill level.

[TM172003]

Just gave the Messiah Complex suite another listen. 

What a complete and utter train wreck.  It just ended and I remember zero about it, other than it felt like it just bounced from idea to idea with no rhyme or reason, and as for memorable melodies?  Nada. 

It makes me sad to see how quickly this band has fallen off the cliff. 

Is this a common opinion? I love Messiah Complex, I get how it might feel weird if you're seeing it as one song but I think every part is great, and the callbacks to other songs are really nice. The riff from the start of The Sect is one of my favourite Haken riffs too.

[KevShmev]

Given the chatter in the TA thread, I thought I would give something from the last album another try.

Just gave the Messiah Complex suite another listen. 

What a complete and utter train wreck.  It just ended and I remember zero about it, other than it felt like it just bounced from idea to idea with no rhyme or reason, and as for memorable melodies?  Nada. 

It makes me sad to see how quickly this band has fallen off the cliff. 

Surprising take considering how many recalls there to some of their best songs.

I've said this before, but I thought Vector was very disappointing, but Virus felt like a much improved "act 2" of a single concept, and now I can only think of them as a double album and it really made the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

Now I love both albums, but I'm also hoping the next album gives us another big change up in direction.

The recalls to prior songs doesn't make the new ones good, though, IMO.

And to clarify, I will give them props for the change in direction.  Bands who do not stay stagnant are often the best ones, and many of my favorite albums are ones that were considered a radical departure at the time.  I just do not care for the direction that Haken went on these records.

[KevShmev]

As I said, Aquarius is still one of the best debut albums of all (!) time for me. So I agree, Aquarius is awesome. But in my opinion, apart from Visions (which I like slightly less than the debut because it doesn't have that goofy side as much) the band only got better from album to album. That is, if you count Vector and Virus as a double album, which I do.

The melodies are still there. Veil has an amazing chorus, Puzzle Box even has more than one amazing chorus (that finale "how can truth" gets me every time!). Canary Yellow is hauntingly beautiful. Carousel should please every Mountain-fan. And The Strain stays in my head for days whenever I hear it. The melodies are there, they're just standing next to huge 8-string riffs and insane rhythm section work, which you can either love (me) or not love (you, as it looks) 

I am, however, very excited but anxious what they're gonna do without Diego. I hope they don't come up with the idea to continue without a keyboard player.

Some of the songs on Vision are kinda average, but that is still a damn good album on the strength alone of the title track and Deathless, which I consider two of their best songs.  And I really like the sound of the record.  It sounds a little dirty, a little grimy.  I like that.

[KevShmev]

Just gave the Messiah Complex suite another listen. 

What a complete and utter train wreck.  It just ended and I remember zero about it, other than it felt like it just bounced from idea to idea with no rhyme or reason, and as for memorable melodies?  Nada. 

It makes me sad to see how quickly this band has fallen off the cliff. 

Is this a common opinion? I love Messiah Complex, I get how it might feel weird if you're seeing it as one song but I think every part is great, and the callbacks to other songs are really nice. The riff from the start of The Sect is one of my favourite Haken riffs too.

Not sure.  I can't speak for the fanbase as a whole, but as far as my local circle of friends go, the friends I have gone to see Haken with the last few years were as disappointed with Virus as I was, and we all agree that Messiah Complex is a train wreck.

[KevShmev]

Invasion is so great, my favourite on the album and one of my favourite Haken songs.

That is probably the one song from Virus that I will revisit here and there.

(not Carousel, if anyone read my most recent posts before I edited them; I got Infatuation and Carousel confused )