Metallica Thread

[Moor]

I tried to post this on the Metallica thread, but it seems it is locked. Here is the full story:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/metallica-enlist-fans-for-kill-em-all-and-ride-the-lightning-reissues-20141030

I believe we all agree which of their albums needs to be remastered before any other.

[BlobVanDam]

I believe we all agree which of their albums needs to be remastered before any other.

That would require a proper remix to fix its problems (assuming we're thinking the same thing!), but I've been waiting forever to be able to listen to that album again. Hopefully they don't balls up these remasters and brickwall them to hell like their recent albums. I don't think they have an ear for production.

[Moor]

I believe we all agree which of their albums needs to be remastered before any other.

That would require a proper remix to fix its problems (assuming we're thinking the same thing!), but I've been waiting forever to be able to listen to that album again. Hopefully they don't balls up these remasters and brickwall them to hell like their recent albums. I don't think they have an ear for production.

I am talking about AJFA... if you are pointing to DM, you may be right as well 

[BlobVanDam]

I believe we all agree which of their albums needs to be remastered before any other.

That would require a proper remix to fix its problems (assuming we're thinking the same thing!), but I've been waiting forever to be able to listen to that album again. Hopefully they don't balls up these remasters and brickwall them to hell like their recent albums. I don't think they have an ear for production.

I am talking about AJFA... if you are pointing to DM, you may be right as well 

I was also talking about AJFA.
The Guitar Hero III version of DM is a perfectly fine alternative for me, so no problems there.

[me7]

I don't see any room for improvement for KEA, RTL and MOP. They are fine the way they are, really good sounding thrash albums. I'm sure these remasters will just pump the compression to 11 without any real "mastering" work done anyway.

[ZKX-2099]

I hope they are louder than DM just to shut everybody up.

[BlobVanDam]

I hope they are louder than DM just to shut everybody up.

It's not even possible to be louder than DM without being literally white noise. And a screwed up remaster is going to have the exact opposite effect of shutting anyone up.

[The Curious Orange]

It occurred to me some time ago that Metallica are probably the biggest band that have never had their back catalogue remastered - these are long overdue.

I didn't mind the Death Magnetic CD - sure, it's bad, but it's not the worst I've heard. AJFA is probably the album I'm most anticipating hearing. I do hope they make a good job of these, because "remastered" these days always seems to mean "brickwalled", and when it comes to quality audiophile releases, we all know Metallica are a bunch of cloth-eared clods.

[?]

I hope they are louder than DM just to shut everybody up.

It's not even possible to be louder than DM without being literally white noise.

Yes it is - DM has the average DR of 3, while there are albums with literally zero dynamics: https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr An example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuO3b4_7OLI (warning: don't listen at a high volume!)

[Mister Gold]

I believe we all agree which of their albums needs to be remastered before any other.

That would require a proper remix to fix its problems (assuming we're thinking the same thing!), but I've been waiting forever to be able to listen to that album again. Hopefully they don't balls up these remasters and brickwall them to hell like their recent albums. I don't think they have an ear for production.

I'd kill to hear a properly remixed and remastered version of ... And Justice For All. Such an incredible album.

[mikeyd23]

I don't see any room for improvement for KEA, RTL and MOP. They are fine the way they are, really good sounding thrash albums. I'm sure these remasters will just pump the compression to 11 without any real "mastering" work done anyway.

My thoughts exactly, KEA, RTL and MOP are great sounding albums in their own right.  Now that being said, a great quality remaster isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I agree with your assessment that based on Metallica's previous track record in recent years, this probably wont go well.

The bonus content they are collecting from fans could either be really cool or really redundant with what can already be found on YouTube or by doing a google image search.

[BlobVanDam]

I hope they are louder than DM just to shut everybody up.

It's not even possible to be louder than DM without being literally white noise.

Yes it is - DM has the average DR of 3, while there are albums with literally zero dynamics: https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr An example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuO3b4_7OLI (warning: don't listen at a high volume!)

It won't let me play the video for some reason, but I don't even want to hear anything worse than DM, because DM sounds so utterly shit that it should be considered fraud to sell it as music at all. I consider DR5 unlistenable (DR6 is case by case), and DM is the only album I have with a lower DR than that.

[hefdaddy42]

Wow, a remixed & remastered version of AJFA would be the bee's knees.

[Elite]

I hope they are louder than DM just to shut everybody up.

It's not even possible to be louder than DM without being literally white noise.

Yes it is - DM has the average DR of 3, while there are albums with literally zero dynamics: https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr An example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuO3b4_7OLI (warning: don't listen at a high volume!)

That was literally unlistenable. Why would you make this?   

[?]

I hope they are louder than DM just to shut everybody up.

It's not even possible to be louder than DM without being literally white noise.

Yes it is - DM has the average DR of 3, while there are albums with literally zero dynamics: https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr An example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuO3b4_7OLI (warning: don't listen at a high volume!)

That was literally unlistenable. Why would you make this?   

That's why it's called noise music!

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Wow, a remixed & remastered version of AJFA would be the bee's knees.

This. Times a ton.

[The Curious Orange]

Wow, DM has a DR of 3, but the Guitar Hero 3 rip has a DR of 12? I didn't realise the difference was that great...

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Wow, DM has a DR of 3, but the Guitar Hero 3 rip has a DR of 12? I didn't realise the difference was that great...

The Guitar Hero master is the one I have in my iPod since 2008.

[Kotowboy]

Yeah the only reason I have DM and SA on CD is that they were a penny each on eBay


That, and the live DVD that comes with SA. 

[ariich]

Wow, a remixed & remastered version of AJFA would be the bee's knees.

Seriously, that would be amazing.

EDIT: This is now the Metallica thread. Not sure why the old one was locked without a new one started.

[seasonsinthesky]

Wow, a remixed & remastered version of AJFA would be the bee's knees.

Seriously, that would be amazing.

to be honest, all the albums pre-Load (and post-Reload...) could use a remixing, particularly the absolute mud all over RTL. i am doubting any of them will be remixed.

in fact, i bet they are just issuing the masters from the recent (2013?) Japan mini-LP presses stateside — it's a brickwalled mess.

[adamack]

RTL and KEA need more than a re-master.

IMO, they need a de-reverb first.

I guess some would argue that the big, wet, distant sounding mix on James's voice and on the guitars is what give RTL and KEA their character.

But the more tight, up-front sound of MOP sounds FAR better to me personally, especially for thrash metal.

The palm-muted riffs just sound so much tighter without slopping a ton of reverb on them. And James doesn't sound like he's singing in an opera hall.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't think anything should be remixed except for AJFA because it has a glaring problem accepted by the majority of Metallica fans and the band.
For better or worse, the rest of them are simply products of their time, and their sound is part of the character of those albums. Personally I think KEA sounds great for that era of the genre, and MoP sounds good too. I'm not a fan of RTL's dull sound, but there's not really any objective problem that needs to be corrected. It is what it is, so I'd want that left alone too.

I definitely don't want them to go as far as making artistic changes to the sound of the album. They just need to boost the bass a little on AJFA, and perhaps EQ the guitars accordingly for the mix to work. They shouldn't touch the reverb, they shouldn't mess with modern production techniques and ideas, they should just finally do justice to the album and make it sound in line with their other classic albums. Change it as little as possible to correct that one problem.

Chances are they're just going to remaster them and be done with it, and we'll be let down. The main motivation for re-releasing them is because they now own the recordings and want to make money off them.

[ariich]

I'll be pretty disappointed if the remasters are simply brickwalling.

Then again, I agree with Blob that apart from AJFA they don't really need any remix or anything like that. A genuinely good remaster than makes it A BIT louder and stronger would be great, but I just don't trust them to get it right.

[adamack]

I don't think anything should be remixed except for AJFA because it has a glaring problem accepted by the majority of Metallica fans and the band.
For better or worse, the rest of them are simply products of their time, and their sound is part of the character of those albums. Personally I think KEA sounds great for that era of the genre, and MoP sounds good too. I'm not a fan of RTL's dull sound, but there's not really any objective problem that needs to be corrected. It is what it is, so I'd want that left alone too.

I definitely don't want them to go as far as making artistic changes to the sound of the album. They just need to boost the bass a little on AJFA, and perhaps EQ the guitars accordingly for the mix to work. They shouldn't touch the reverb, they shouldn't mess with modern production techniques and ideas, they should just finally do justice to the album and make it sound in line with their other classic albums. Change it as little as possible to correct that one problem.

Chances are they're just going to remaster them and be done with it, and we'll be let down. The main motivation for re-releasing them is because they now own the recordings and want to make money off them.

Good points. I too would love the bass boost on AJFA, as that is musically, my second favorite Metallica album.

You're right though, as much as I would love to hear RTL without all the reverb (as per my previous post), I guess it really is more of a personal preference thing with me. I always forget that pretty much ALL music had the reverb-flooded sound in the 80's, so it is a character of its time.

[Ultimetalhead]

This makes no sense at all. KEA and RTL sound absolutely great the way they are. Cleaning them up at all would ruin the charm. Really, the only Metallica album (aside from DM for obvious reasons) that needs any sort of treatment is AJFA, but you could argue that the hollow, castrated sound gives that album its charm too.

I mean, if these were full-on remixes like the Megadeth back catalog (which is mostly fantastic save for portions of Rust in Peace where they had to re-record vocals), I'd be reasonably excited. Those albums were plenty thrashy and soulful before, and the clarity was actually a benefit.

[sneakyblueberry]

Meh, I seldom enjoy a remaster more than the original.

Megadeth back catalog... Rust in Peace

Case in point, I really hated this remaster.  I traded a friend my original for the remaster and had to buy the original again (in fact, the only Megadeth remasters that actually benefitted the albums were Killing is my Business and So Far So Good So What, and parts of Youthanasia, the rest of it was just a bullshit money grab).

Like UMH is basically saying, 'modernizing' the sound just completely kills the vibe for me - unless the original mix is in absolute need of a remaster which I don't think KEA or RTL are. 

[MetalJunkie]

Listening to The Judas Kiss right now. Forgot how much I love it.

JUDAS LIVES, RECITE THIS VOW: I'VE BECOME YOUR NEW GOD NOW

[Dark Castle]

Listening to The Judas Kiss right now. Forgot how much I love it.

JUDAS LIVES, RECITE THIS VOW: I'VE BECOME YOUR NEW GOD NOW

BUTBUTBUT METALLICA SUXXORS NOW LOLOLHAHALOL

Fantastic song  I'm going to have to give Death Magnetic a listen tonight or tomorrow

[Progmetty]

Not too excited about the remastering plans, hope it works out well though.
They're either putting the new album on hold to do this or they won't be very involved in the remastering process.
If they do as good a job as Mustaine did with the Megadeth remasters I'd absolutely love it, but I feel this should have been MoP and AJFA, rather than KEA & RTL. I think KEA, much like Killing is My Business, is beyond saving, something about the guitar and drum sounds of both debut albums. If they manage to make RTL sound as good as the Peace Sells remaster I'll be very happy, that crispy drum sound, the prominent bass and sharp distorted guitar sounds.
I'm drawing lines between this and the Megadeth remasters cause it feels the most relevant.

[Ultimetalhead]

Meh, I seldom enjoy a remaster more than the original.

Megadeth back catalog... Rust in Peace

Case in point, I really hated this remaster.  I traded a friend my original for the remaster and had to buy the original again (in fact, the only Megadeth remasters that actually benefitted the albums were Killing is my Business and So Far So Good So What, and parts of Youthanasia, the rest of it was just a bullshit money grab).

Like UMH is basically saying, 'modernizing' the sound just completely kills the vibe for me - unless the original mix is in absolute need of a remaster which I don't think KEA or RTL are.

God, I know. The vocals on Take No Prisoners are just embarrassing. I love how everything sounds on the original, and everything on the remix is delightfully crisp, but the vocal butchery is just inexcusable. I know it wasn't entirely his fault because they lost the tapes or some shit, but damn. Agreed on KIMB and SFSGSW (although that synthesized trumpet on Into the Lungs of Hell was totally unnecessary), but I also think Peace Sells benefited from a louder, crisper sound.

[sneakyblueberry]

Oh yeah you're right, Peace Sells remaster was great.  The vocals on Lucretia and Five Magics I absolutely abhor. 

[SPNKr]

I hope they do this. I'm glad they're at least open with the idea for a remaster/remix. There's nothing wrong with it as probably the only thing holding stuff back like this from being made possible is people not liking change. We do not like change, especially the fans. The beauty about it is you don't have to buy or listen to them if they're available.

I agree with Justice should also be looked at, the bass guitar should be leveled out professionally. I've done it before so I already can imagine how it "could" sound, just PLZ NO BRICKWALL.

Also I agree with the re-recording portion of Rust In Peace. Pretty shit and one of the reasons it felt out of favor as one of the best remixes for Megadeth. At least the overall sound is awesome, the original is of course the best. Undisputable.

[dparrott]

I listened to the original RTL with the bass turned up last night, and Cliff was not that noticeable.  The low end of the drums were much louder than the bass guit was.  With all of talk of Justice not having audible bass, I never heard anyone mention RTL.

[Zook]

For the longest time I didn't know the beginning of For Whom the Bell Tolls was played by a bass, but other than that, yeah, the bass isn't all that loud. It's a big louder on Master of Puppets, especially on Orion. I've never understood why he's obtained godly bass guitar player status though. If he didn't die, would people have still held him so highly?