*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[Hanz Gruber]

It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing" as I have the complete opposite reaction.

To me Octavarium was an utterly uninspired effort and arguably their worst album whereas The Astonishing just oozes with inspiration and is their best album in 15 years... maybe even longer!

But hey, thats the beauty of music.

Without the title track, it would be the worst album after WDADU, I agree. But what do you think about Octavarium the song?

I do like the title track but I think they mailed in the rest.  I go back and forth on which their worst album is between Octavarium and Systematic Chaos because SC has some interesting parts but nothing great while Octavarium is mainly uninspired but does have a pretty decent epic.

I really like Octavarium.  The Answer Lies Within is a nice catchy slow song.  The Root of All Evil is heavy and catchy at the same time.  These Wall is catchy as hell.  Octavarium is epic, Panic Attack was crazy at the time and sounded like someone was really having a Panic Attack (in a good way)

[lovethedrake]

It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing".

It still amazes me that people can't accept other people have different tastes.

Hear hear!....It's really annoying me that so many people in here just can't accept that other people having different opinions and tastes to their
own is not something to be derided or put down.

It amazes me how many people like to take quotes out of context and don't read the rest of my post.   "But hey, thats the beauty of music".     I think thats pretty clear that I am saying the beauty of music is that people have varying tastes.   So not sure what you guys are trying to start here.

To add to this, I think its amazing or interesting (if that words makes you all happier) that someone can love Octavarium and hate The Astonishing yet we are all diehard fans of the same band.  Personally I have the opposite opinion which I find fascinating.   I never said he couldn't have that opinion or isn't entitled to it.   That is why I ended my post with "but hey, thats the beauty of music".   Hope that clears it up for you all.

[lovethedrake]

It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing" as I have the complete opposite reaction.

To me Octavarium was an utterly uninspired effort and arguably their worst album whereas The Astonishing just oozes with inspiration and is their best album in 15 years... maybe even longer!

But hey, thats the beauty of music.

Without the title track, it would be the worst album after WDADU, I agree. But what do you think about Octavarium the song?

I do like the title track but I think they mailed in the rest.  I go back and forth on which their worst album is between Octavarium and Systematic Chaos because SC has some interesting parts but nothing great while Octavarium is mainly uninspired but does have a pretty decent epic.

I really like Octavarium.  The Answer Lies Within is a nice catchy slow song.  The Root of All Evil is heavy and catchy at the same time.  These Wall is catchy as hell.  Octavarium is epic, Panic Attack was crazy at the time and sounded like someone was really having a Panic Attack (in a good way)

My problems with Octavarium are the production, the obvious nods to bands I don't love (U2, Muse) and the lack of killer Petrucci solos.   With that said, I know this is The Astonishing thread so I don't want to hijack this thing.

[jayvee3]

Reappearing themes I've found so far
Dystopian Overture 0:44 --> The X Aspect
Dystopian Overture 2:57 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Dystopian Overture 3:25 --> A New Beginning
Dystopian Overture 4:00 --> Astonishing
Act of Faythe 3:57 --> A Savior in the Square
Brother, Can You Hear Me? 3:05 --> The Road to Revolution
Ravenskill 4:12 --> When Your Time Has Come
The X Aspect 3:29 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
2285 Entr'acte 0:43 --> Lord Nafaryus
2285 Entr'acte 0:58 -->Three Days
2285 Entr'acte 1:15 --> The Road to Revolution
Losing Faythe 0:19 --> Chosen
Astonishing 1:23 -->, 4:31 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Astonishing 2:13 --> The Answer
Astonishing 3:32 --> The Road to Revolution

Main Theme:
Dystopian Overture 2:28 -->
Lord Nafaryus 2:23 -->
A Savior in the Square 3:43 -->
Act of Faythe 1:06 -->
The Road to Revolution 1:49 -->
Astonishing 2:44 -->

The Answer, When your time has come and begin again are also all completely connected by the same melody 

[JRuless]

Reappearing themes I've found so far
Dystopian Overture 0:44 --> The X Aspect
Dystopian Overture 2:57 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Dystopian Overture 3:25 --> A New Beginning
Dystopian Overture 4:00 --> Astonishing
Act of Faythe 3:57 --> A Savior in the Square
Brother, Can You Hear Me? 3:05 --> The Road to Revolution
Ravenskill 4:12 --> When Your Time Has Come
The X Aspect 3:29 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
2285 Entr'acte 0:43 --> Lord Nafaryus
2285 Entr'acte 0:58 -->Three Days
2285 Entr'acte 1:15 --> The Road to Revolution
Losing Faythe 0:19 --> Chosen
Astonishing 1:23 -->, 4:31 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Astonishing 2:13 --> The Answer
Astonishing 3:32 --> The Road to Revolution

Main Theme:
Dystopian Overture 2:28 -->
Lord Nafaryus 2:23 -->
A Savior in the Square 3:43 -->
Act of Faythe 1:06 -->
The Road to Revolution 1:49 -->
Astonishing 2:44 -->

The Answer, When your time has come and begin again are also all completely connected by the same melody 

Dystopian Overture 0:44 --> The X Aspect

I call it the 'Evangeline theme' it's in A Better Life too.

[JMSE]

Anybody else in love with JP's solo in "When Your Time Has Come" ? Such a melodic moment.

[wideworldofmike]

Evangeline's theme is quickly becoming my fav. 1st "solo" in Dystopian Overture.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

The first time I heard Disc One, three or four songs stood out. The second time, a few more. Then a few more, and a few more... Finally after multiple listens, I feel like I have a good grasp on it, and it's awesome! Ready to give Disc Two a spin.

[Woodworker1]

My wife generally doesn't like DT.  I have to force her or bribe her to let me play DT in the car.  Not anymore!  She really likes The Astonishing (as do I). 

Try it out on your wife or girlfriend.

[RJ86]

I just finally got my first full uninterrupted listen to the whole thing (wife was out to dinner with her friends)... I got my alone time with a pair of headphones. Finally found "That Song" that smacked me in the forehead. "Moment of Betrayal"!
Epic opening, catchy, killer riff.
The rest is catching on. I still can't pass judgement on the album as a whole, but it is definitely catching on!! 

[erwinrafael]

Imagine if this becomes staged as a full-blown musical theater production (and the way it is written is that it is stage-ready already). This will do a lot in mainstreaming prog to an audience that normally would not listen to prog.

[lovethedrake]

This if freaking crazy how good this album is!    I keep posting here after each listen because it keeps getting better and better.   

I absolutely love rock operas so I am having so much fun with the theatricality of this whole thing.   Labrie is just amazing on this album!!! 

I assumed the top 3 DT albums were completely untouchable (SFAM, I&W, SDOIT) and I feel like its blasphemy to place anything above them but I honestly think this album belongs up there with them and might just be the best of the bunch.   SFAM is one of the all time great albums IMO and this one is honestly rivaling it.   Crazy to say.    One thing I will say for certain is that that this album has definitely left Awake and FII in their dust and those were my number 4 and 5.

If the DT guys are reading this.  Well done gentleman!   I am floored.

[chrisbDTM]

after a few more listens i'm still underwhelmed. I'm gonna have to listen to it alot more and see if I can come around on it. I think the first two tracks on disc 2 are my favorite at the moment

[jayvee3]

This if freaking crazy how good this album is!    I keep posting here after each listen because it keeps getting better and better.   

I absolutely love rock operas so I am having so much fun with the theatricality of this whole thing.   Labrie is just amazing on this album!!! 

I assumed the top 3 DT albums were completely untouchable (SFAM, I&W, SDOIT) and I feel like its blasphemy to place anything above them but I honestly think this album belongs up there with them and might just be the best of the bunch.   SFAM is one of the all time great albums IMO and this one is honestly rivaling it.   Crazy to say.    One thing I will say for certain is that that this album has definitely left Awake and FII in their dust and those were my number 4 and 5.

If the DT guys are reading this.  Well done gentleman!   I am floored.

I really agree, that upon more listens where the recurring themes really start to surface and become familiar, it is vastly becoming apparent that this will be a top tier album for me. While DT are a band where you always seem to be discovering new things, I tend to find that if I like stuff from the first few listens, it generally stays that way. Without trying to compare too much, I remember vividly that my first listen of 6 Degrees had me a little confused. And while I like it more now for sure, much of it still doesn't grab me the way it seems to grab many others around here. Yet while the self titled album gets slammed more often than not, I enjoyed it immediately, and it still gets regular spins in my rotation. I&W didn't grab me as much many moons ago (ahh, I remember my I&W cassette ) But Awake totally did, and thats how it still remains...

Basically, I'm with you in how great the diversity of opinion is on The Astonishing, and it will be really interesting how it fits into everyones collections over time. 

[erwinrafael]

I can accept people not liking this album. Musical tastes being subjective, and all.

But to say that the DT guys just phoned it in with this one? With the amount of care that went into making specific musical themes serve story purposes, marking characters with distinct musical styles, and having a narrative that flows well both musically and plot-wise, I find such a criticism LAZY. Just say you don't like it, instead of making unfounded (and most likely, wrong) accusations of "phoning in" on the band who seems to have given much effort and passion in producing this work.

[Logain Ablar]

Evangeline's theme is quickly becoming my fav. 1st "solo" in Dystopian Overture.

I absolutely love this, wherever it crops up in the whole album.

How come the dead person gets the best theme?? 

[rumborak]

I can accept people not liking this album. Musical tastes being subjective, and all.

But to say that the DT guys just phoned it in with this one? With the amount of care that went into making specific musical themes serve story purposes, marking characters with distinct musical styles, and having a narrative that flows well both musically and plot-wise, I find such a criticism LAZY. Just say you don't like it, instead of making unfounded (and most likely, wrong) accusations of "phoning in" on the band who seems to have given much effort and passion in producing this work.

I don't think anybody is saying JP, JR or JLB "phoned" anything in. From anything I have seen online, that criticism is levied against JM and MM's performance on the album.

[erwinrafael]

I can accept people not liking this album. Musical tastes being subjective, and all.

But to say that the DT guys just phoned it in with this one? With the amount of care that went into making specific musical themes serve story purposes, marking characters with distinct musical styles, and having a narrative that flows well both musically and plot-wise, I find such a criticism LAZY. Just say you don't like it, instead of making unfounded (and most likely, wrong) accusations of "phoning in" on the band who seems to have given much effort and passion in producing this work.

I don't think anybody is saying JP, JR or JLB "phoned" anything in. From anything I have seen online, that criticism is levied against JM and MM's performance on the album.

There are, even in this thread.

And even those criticisms levied against JM and MM, I think those are basically criticisms against their musical philosophies. If you listen intently to what MM is doing, it is meticulously composed and thought out within the parameters of MM's approach to drumming (that is, not much fills, composing to highlight what the other instruments are doing, a liberal use of speed, a lot of use of bass drums in the orchestration, left-right stereo-feel for the cymbals). JM, also, plays like the old JM within the context of the songs.

[erwinrafael]

you guys can't brush it off by saying "it's a different type of album" 
i know that. that doesn't mean they couldn't vary up their instrumental sections a little when they do have them.

The Gift of Music instrumental has five movements. The instrumental intro of A Life Left Behind also has five. A New Beginning has four up to the outro. Moment of Betrayal also has four.

How many movements in instrumentals do you want in songs that are less than ten minutes long and are primarily song-focused?

[Nel_Annette]

I've had to break up my listening sessions; don't have enough time to listen to all of it in one go. This is one of those albums where there's so much to digest, that I don't think I'll have a solid opinion of it for a long long time.

Initial impressions:
-Better than DT12. I can tell you that right off the bat.
-Album's kind of all over the place. Lots of great sections, lots of corny sections, some stuff feels like filler.
-Because everything seems to flow together, I can't really pinpoint any tracks to memory.
-Even the parts that don't really click with me, I still appreciate them covering all these different musical styles and tones.
-James is ****ing killing it this album. Dude's vocals seem to really pop this time around, especially with all the different characters he has to sing for.

[Progmetty]

I'm absolutely loving this album, I'm already singing along up to Savior in The Square.

[jayvee3]

Reappearing themes I've found so far
Dystopian Overture 0:44 --> The X Aspect
Dystopian Overture 2:57 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Dystopian Overture 3:25 --> A New Beginning
Dystopian Overture 4:00 --> Astonishing
Act of Faythe 3:57 --> A Savior in the Square
Brother, Can You Hear Me? 3:05 --> The Road to Revolution
Ravenskill 4:12 --> When Your Time Has Come
The X Aspect 3:29 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
2285 Entr'acte 0:43 --> Lord Nafaryus
2285 Entr'acte 0:58 -->Three Days
2285 Entr'acte 1:15 --> The Road to Revolution
Losing Faythe 0:19 --> Chosen
Astonishing 1:23 -->, 4:31 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Astonishing 2:13 --> The Answer
Astonishing 3:32 --> The Road to Revolution

Main Theme:
Dystopian Overture 2:28 -->
Lord Nafaryus 2:23 -->
A Savior in the Square 3:43 -->
Act of Faythe 1:06 -->
The Road to Revolution 1:49 -->
Astonishing 2:44 -->

The Answer, When your time has come and begin again are also all completely connected by the same melody 

Oh yea, and did you get the connection of the 'Saviour in the Square' and 'Our New World' openings?

[lovethedrake]

I think from tracks 1-27 this might just be the greatest DT album ever made.   

However, The stretch from "My last farewell" until the end of the album (excluding "Our New World") is very underwhelming.   

I SO badly want to like "Hymn of a Thousand Words" but I just can't.   It plods along and is super cheesy.  I wish they would have made this a faster paced track and added some virtuosity to it. 

Its because of this final stretch that I wouldn't call this a perfect album but even this stretch is still good.  Its just not incredible like the rest of the album.

I said before that this rivals SFAM but SFAM ends with One Last Time, Spirit Carries On, and Finally Free so I think I retract that statement.

I now have a "Big 4" though rather than a "Big 3".  Where those albums rank within the "Big 4" (SFAM, I&W, SDOIT, TA)  I don't quite know yet

[jayvee3]

I think from tracks 1-27 this might just be the greatest DT album ever made.   

However, The stretch from "My last farewell" until the end of the album (excluding "Our New World") is very underwhelming.   

I SO badly want to like "Hymn of a Thousand Words" but I just can't.   It plods along and is super cheesy.  I wish they would have made this a faster paced track and added some virtuosity to it. 

Its because of this final stretch that I wouldn't call this a perfect album but even this stretch is still good.  Its just not incredible like the rest of the album.

I said before that this rivals SFAM but SFAM ends with One Last Time, Spirit Carries On, and Finally Free so I think I retract that statement.

I now have a "Big 4" though rather than a "Big 3".  Where those albums rank within the "Big 4" (SFAM, I&W, SDOIT, TA)  I don't quite know yet

Do me a favour and stick with 'My Last Farewell' and 'Act of Faythe'. They both completely clicked with me last night, and are real highlights, particularly 'My Last Farewell'. Great recurring themes in 'Act of Faythe' from 'Chosen' too. 

[erwinrafael]

I think from tracks 1-27 this might just be the greatest DT album ever made.   

However, The stretch from "My last farewell" until the end of the album (excluding "Our New World") is very underwhelming.   

I SO badly want to like "Hymn of a Thousand Words" but I just can't.   It plods along and is super cheesy.  I wish they would have made this a faster paced track and added some virtuosity to it. 

Its because of this final stretch that I wouldn't call this a perfect album but even this stretch is still good.  Its just not incredible like the rest of the album.

I love My Last Farewell. However, Losing Faythe may have been too long, Whispers in the Wind cold have been combined with Hymn of a Thousand Words, and I agree that Hymn of a Thousand Words could have been faster.

I can see this working in a theatrical production, though. With very gifted actors, they could make this scene very dramatic.

[Progmetty]

I bet you this album is doing incredibly great in Japan, I wonder if there's a source we can find out from, since there are no Japanese people on the internet.

[lovethedrake]

I think from tracks 1-27 this might just be the greatest DT album ever made.   

However, The stretch from "My last farewell" until the end of the album (excluding "Our New World") is very underwhelming.   

I SO badly want to like "Hymn of a Thousand Words" but I just can't.   It plods along and is super cheesy.  I wish they would have made this a faster paced track and added some virtuosity to it. 

Its because of this final stretch that I wouldn't call this a perfect album but even this stretch is still good.  Its just not incredible like the rest of the album.

I said before that this rivals SFAM but SFAM ends with One Last Time, Spirit Carries On, and Finally Free so I think I retract that statement.

I now have a "Big 4" though rather than a "Big 3".  Where those albums rank within the "Big 4" (SFAM, I&W, SDOIT, TA)  I don't quite know yet

Do me a favour and stick with 'My Last Farewell' and 'Act of Faythe'. They both completely clicked with me last night, and are real highlights, particularly 'My Last Farewell'. Great recurring themes in 'Act of Faythe' from 'Chosen' too. 

I hope have the same reaction!   I will definitely keep trying.

I agree that Hymn of a Thousand Words may work better on stage. 

The rest of the album has continued to grow on me beautifully so hopefully the final bunch of tracks does the same.

[erwinrafael]

I sort of figured out the story function of NOMACS tracks. I initially said that they mark Daryus, but more generally, I think they mark a major action brought about by an Empire character:

Nafaryus demands for Gabriel's surrender in Three Days leads to The Hovering Sojourn of NOMACS looking for Gabriel.

Daryus makes A Tempting Offer to Arhys leads to the NOMACS noting the Digital Discord.

Daryus killing Arhys at The Path That Divides leads to ominous Machine Chatter among the NOMACS.

Nafaryus changing for the good in Our New World leads to the Power Down of the NOMACS.

[CDrice]

On the path that diviiiiiiiides
You are there by myyy siiiiiiide
There will be no betraaaayal toniiiiiiiiight

It gives me chills everytime... and then Arhys dies    But this song really grew on me. Not that I didn't liked it, but it's now one of the stand out of the album for me.

[pcs90]

I sort of figured out the story function of NOMACS tracks. I initially said that they mark Daryus, but more generally, I think they mark a major action brought about by an Empire character:

Nafaryus demands for Gabriel's surrender in Three Days leads to The Hovering Sojourn of NOMACS looking for Gabriel.

Daryus makes A Tempting Offer to Arhys leads to the NOMACS noting the Digital Discord.

Daryus killing Arhys at The Path That Divides leads to ominous Machine Chatter among the NOMACS.

Nafaryus changing for the good in Our New World leads to the Power Down of the NOMACS.

Well, Nafaryus changes before Our New World, technically...ONW doesn't really mention him in any form. That's the only one that doesn't really line up.

[erwinrafael]

I sort of figured out the story function of NOMACS tracks. I initially said that they mark Daryus, but more generally, I think they mark a major action brought about by an Empire character:

Nafaryus demands for Gabriel's surrender in Three Days leads to The Hovering Sojourn of NOMACS looking for Gabriel.

Daryus makes A Tempting Offer to Arhys leads to the NOMACS noting the Digital Discord.

Daryus killing Arhys at The Path That Divides leads to ominous Machine Chatter among the NOMACS.

Nafaryus changing for the good in Our New World leads to the Power Down of the NOMACS.

Well, Nafaryus changes before Our New World, technically...ONW doesn't really mention him in any form. That's the only one that doesn't really line up.

Yeah, you're right. Maybe it serves the same function of Descent of the NOMACS of bookending the story. Which makes the final track, Astonishing, more of a curtain call song (where the actors receive their applause and get acknowledged) rather than a song that is integral to the plot.

[Progmetty]

Why did Gabriel tell his brother that the NOMAC's were down in Moment of Betrayal?

[Bacong]

get the HDTracks version you guys holy shit

[erwinrafael]

get the HDTracks version you guys holy shit

I don't have access to the CD versions, but if you are referring to the clearer cymbals and bass in the HDTracks compared to the 320 Mp3s that I also have, I would agree with you.

[pcs90]

I'm really curious how it compares to the CD. With DT12, it was a huge difference, but I feel like with this album it can't really be that drastic. I could be wrong though!