*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[mike099]

I'd rather the band take a risk once in a while than just churn out an 8 track 75 minute album with a 24 minute epic at the end every two years.

Agree, but the next one I want Train of Thought meets SC type of music.

[Kotowboy]

I would like a super heavy TOT style album with all natural recording. Just drums and amps.

[MirrorMask]

I'd rather the band take a risk once in a while than just churn out an 8 track 75 minute album with a 24 minute epic at the end every two years.

Agree, but the next one I want Train of Thought meets SC type of music.

God, no. Dream Theater is prog metal and I'm here more for the metal than for the prog, but that style of heaviness wasn't really to my liking, I prefer more the style of Awake.

I want it as well to be heavier, but not exagerated to the point that you can't distinguish DT from generic contemporary metal bands. And I hope they keep from this album the taste for melodies and that the song structure has to serve the story the lyrics are telling and not the way around, I'm kinda tired of the whole "This song needs a solo section, so let's put our LTE suits, let's jam the hell out of this and whatever 5 minutes come out we'll stick 'em in the middle of a verse, chorus, verse, chorus song" approach.

[James Sucellus]

I like Losing Faythe. I find it more memorable than The Path That Divides, The Walking Shadow or My Last Farewell, to be honest – not to mention the superfluous Whispers on the Wind. Those are the tracks that lose the momentum for me, which is ridiculous as The Path That Divides and The Walking Shadow should be huge event tracks.

[Enigmachine]

I would like a super heavy TOT style album with all natural recording. Just drums and amps.

Yeah, it'd be cool for DT to go completely the other way from TA like what ToT was for SDoIT.

[nicmos]

If I had to complain about anything, it would be the details: the packaging of the album (white credits on white background? booklet glued to the case with small lyrics in the most average and common font? come on!),

The packaging is so annoying!  I literally cannot read like a third of the liner notes, and the rest require straining my eyes and tilting the page at just the right angle.  And the fact that you can't take it out of the cover?  Whose idea was that?  The guy in charge of the packaging should be fired.

[KevShmev]

If I had to complain about anything, it would be the details: the packaging of the album (white credits on white background? booklet glued to the case with small lyrics in the most average and common font? come on!),

The packaging is so annoying!  I literally cannot read like a third of the liner notes, and the rest require straining my eyes and tilting the page at just the right angle.  And the fact that you can't take it out of the cover?  Whose idea was that?  The guy in charge of the packaging should be fired.

Agreed.  Piss poor job on all levels, with regards to packaging.

[Kotowboy]

^ The Astonishing album credits.

[Gh101]

I don't think I am the right one to do it, but I think it'd be a really cool and feasible idea to have a sort of definitive thread for connections between songs.

For example to start with, for Dystopian Overture it could list by timestamp all the parts identified as themes or sections that appear in later songs. Then for each song it could list any connections people find and (what other song it is connected with).

Obviously a gargantuan task for one person, but if there was a thread where people could just post any individual connections they notice, it might not be such a difficult task to eventually list people's contributions in the OP.

With 34 tracks to listen to, I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed parts familiar from other songs but couldn't quite recall which one it was from - and by the time you listen through the full 2 hour album again you might have forgotten what it was you were looking for.

This would be a cool idea indeed!

Just made a new thread for this! 

[jammindude]

Well, it took me a week but I finally made it through the entire album. I've been really busy and my life is a circus. I have to say that I'm really enjoying this so far. It's certainly the single most ambitious thing I've ever heard them do. Out of the gate, my favorite song is hymn of 1000 voices,  but we will see what sticks in the long run.

This album is going to take a very long time to digest in its entirety.

I just wanted to correct this statement I made earlier.  I had the wrong track.   It was Our New World that had stuck out to me.    I blame the hard to read packaging.   

[DragonAttack]

Listened to what I've divided up into Sides 1 and 2 (up to and including "The Hovering Sojourn").  All together, the best music of the album.  To the naysayers, I had to put up with ToT, SC, and BC&SL....there is good and bad in all, but ....damnit. this album is MUSIC!

Curious as to whether 'Lord Nefaryus' ends Side 1, or starts Side 2 on the vinyl. [I figure it starts Side 2, but IDNK]

Obviously the best material on the album.  There are good tracks afterwards, but it could all have been condensed to make one disc.

That being said....I get goosebumps during the last 30-40 seconds of 'Dystopian Overture', thinking of what it will be like when performed live.  As well as at the end of 'A Better Life', 'An Act of Faythe', etc, etc, etc.

I *DO* wish.....that songs didn't change pace/characters/flow so much.  It would not have hurt do short songs (check out Side Two of Queen's 'Sheer Heart Attack') with just one character.  That is not a rock opera, but each little one to two minute song stands out on its own.

[ReaperKK]

Just popping in here to give my two cents after reading this thread.

While I don't know the writing dynamic I don't really care for JR's contributions on The Astonishing. I'm assuming he did the orchestration and it's just too much. I feel like they should have taken a more simple approach to this new album instead of the this grand rock album.

[Kotowboy]

*tears you apart*.

[SwedishGoose]

Just popping in here to give my two cents after reading this thread.

While I don't know the writing dynamic I don't really care for JR's contributions on
The Astonishing. I'm assuming he did the orchestration and it's just too much. I feel like they should have taken a more simple approach to this new album instead of the this grand rock album.

The orchestrations were done by David Campbell not JR.
I love the grandios orchestrations. They did something totally different eith this album and I am grateful for that.
They actually wrote the music for this one, not just jammed it together in the studio, and to me it shows.

Next album might be more of what they usually do. But I hope they take the songwriting mode with them to the next one as well.

[pantsofeternity]

Has anyone compiled what the choir is singing at various parts?  In particular when they're not just doing echos or oohs/ahs?  I've already discussed the ending of "Three Days" on here, but there's also that section of the title track... I think they're saying:

"Brother, I will make you proud. Rest in peace."

Can anyone confirm?

[pcs90]

It's listed as Xander's lines... Father I will make you proud, rest in peace

[ariich]

Whispers on the Wind is kinda superflous... I understand there has to be the "darkest moment", "we're all screwed" point in the story but it's kinda bland, it could have been just a somber verse tackled at the beginning of Hymn with Gabriel despairing, and then the song changing to a more uplifting tune.

I can't agree with this, personally, as it's my favourite of that run. Losing Faythe and Hymn are nice but I prefer Whispers. Kinda reminds me of some of The Dear Hunter's slower songs.

[theanalogkid7]

So I've been reading reviews of this album for awhile now, as well as trying to gauge the reaction here amongst the fans.  So far, there seems to be quite a bit of love for this album.  People really seem to be digging the story, the music, and just the whole idea of this vast world that's being created.

Stupidly, I've also read the comments on the reviews, YouTube "reviews", and even comments on Facebook.  There also seems to be quite a bit of hate for this album.  A lot of the hate seems to be from people that have no idea of the story, like they haven't read the lyrics or checked out the track explanation page of the website, and they also seem to be completely unaware that the story is what took precedent.  And I think that's what makes me so frustrated by some of the backlash - it's ignorant people just spewing crap.  Not surprisingly, these seem to be the same people that are still so bitter about MP being out of the band.

Is it just me?  Am I crazy to think that if people took the time to fully immerse themselves in the story while listening to the album they'd be able to find some level of enjoyment in it?  Perhaps I'm being too sensitive to all of this; I just really am excited about this album and that DT decided to do something so vastly different than anything they'd done before, and really different than anyone else is doing currently.

(I also get that this album just won't click with people, and that's totally cool.  If you're one of those that has given it a fair chance, then my strange, stream of conscience rambling above isn't directed at you.)

[johnnysuperfan]

So I've been reading reviews of this album for awhile now, as well as trying to gauge the reaction here amongst the fans.  So far, there seems to be quite a bit of love for this album.  People really seem to be digging the story, the music, and just the whole idea of this vast world that's being created.

Stupidly, I've also read the comments on the reviews, YouTube "reviews", and even comments on Facebook.  There also seems to be quite a bit of hate for this album.  A lot of the hate seems to be from people that have no idea of the story, like they haven't read the lyrics or checked out the track explanation page of the website, and they also seem to be completely unaware that the story is what took precedent.  And I think that's what makes me so frustrated by some of the backlash - it's ignorant people just spewing crap.  Not surprisingly, these seem to be the same people that are still so bitter about MP being out of the band.

Is it just me?  Am I crazy to think that if people took the time to fully immerse themselves in the story while listening to the album they'd be able to find some level of enjoyment in it?  Perhaps I'm being too sensitive to all of this; I just really am excited about this album and that DT decided to do something so vastly different than anything they'd done before, and really different than anyone else is doing currently.

(I also get that this album just won't click with people, and that's totally cool.  If you're one of those that has given it a fair chance, then my strange, stream of conscience rambling above isn't directed at you.)

you have said that well, not alone of those thoughts. I really enjoy this album entirely. I don't even compare it to previous DT albums. To me it stands on its own merit. The whole concept by Petrucci into this mass story. I haven't played anything else in over a week, can't say enough how good and enjoyable the Astonishing is.

[Enigmachine]

I don't even compare it to previous DT albums. To me it stands on its own merit.

I agree with this so much. Because it's so long and different, it's really hard to place with the rest of their discography, though in terms of effort it's clearly on top.

[theanalogkid7]

I don't even compare it to previous DT albums. To me it stands on its own merit.

I agree with this so much. Because it's so long and different, it's really hard to place with the rest of their discography, though in terms of effort it's clearly on top.

I've been saying since my first listen, it's really incredibly difficult to figure out where this album would place within the discography of DT.  It either needs to be on it's under a "Soundtrack" category, or have an asterisks next to the title.

[MirrorMask]

I almost feel sorry for those people who don't even try to understand what this album is all about (and most importantly what ISN'T), judging it after a listen or two based only on what they thought the album should have sounded like.

Of course people are entitled to not like the album neither should they listen to it over and over if after a week or two it doesn't click, but this is a demanding album with a full story line behind, and it asks to be invested in all of it. As the analog kid said, just give it its fair share, try to understand what they were trying to do, before deciding all in a hurry that it sucks.

[johnnysuperfan]

I don't even compare it to previous DT albums. To me it stands on its own merit.

I agree with this so much. Because it's so long and different, it's really hard to place with the rest of their discography, though in terms of effort it's clearly on top.

I've been saying since my first listen, it's really incredibly difficult to figure out where this album would place within the discography of DT.  It either needs to be on it's under a "Soundtrack" category, or have an asterisks next to the title.

I might sound as a fanboy in which I am, I really applaud the band & John Petrucci for having the balls to create this idea at this point in DT history. From the characters, the story, the map is outstanding work. There will be critics of course, but many of us fans can't wait to see this on stage & how James will portray each character live, which will be a challenging task, but he will pull it off well

[Prog Snob]

Just popping in here to give my two cents after reading this thread.

While I don't know the writing dynamic I don't really care for JR's contributions on The Astonishing. I'm assuming he did the orchestration and it's just too much. I feel like they should have taken a more simple approach to this new album instead of the this grand rock album.

I like what they did with this album. It's undoubtedly different and not something I would expect from them at this stage of their career. It'll never be a top 5 Dream Theater CD for me (ADTOE is number 5 and I don't think the new CD will be able to surpass that), but there are a lot of great songs on The Astonishing and it's really starting to grow on me. The first time I heard Moment of Betrayal I was not impressed but now it's one of my favorite songs on the album.

[chego_voice]

I'm exited for two reasons:

1.- This album is BY FAR the best DT album in their career. (IMHO)
2.- I just finished a Split Screen Cover of MOB.

(Tomorrow Online)

[ReaperKK]

Just popping in here to give my two cents after reading this thread.

While I don't know the writing dynamic I don't really care for JR's contributions on The Astonishing. I'm assuming he did the orchestration and it's just too much. I feel like they should have taken a more simple approach to this new album instead of the this grand rock album.

I like what they did with this album. It's undoubtedly different and not something I would expect from them at this stage of their career. It'll never be a top 5 Dream Theater CD for me (ADTOE is number 5 and I don't think the new CD will be able to surpass that), but there are a lot of great songs on The Astonishing and it's really starting to grow on me. The first time I heard Moment of Betrayal I was not impressed but now it's one of my favorite songs on the album.

I like that they took the the risk and did something different, it's just not for me. I wish they went a bit more stripped down. This album reminds me of "Use Your Illusion" to me in the way that with some trimming it would have made a great single disc. This is all my opinion though.

[rumborak]

Oh, and to add to my last post -- I think SFAM did a much better job of using the music to convey the story.

I made this point to a friend the other day, I think the problem is that JP was trying to drive along the plot with the lyrics of the songs. Not even musicals do that, they always have a lot of spoken dialogue to drive the plot, and then have the songs reserved for crucial sections that usually showcase a crucial emotional element of the plot.
So, TA wastes precious time on lyrics like "can you help me? Nope, busy. Oh, OK." or that Nafaryus goes on a trip. Key parts, like Nefaryus' change of mind from switching from an oppressive ruler to a benign supporter of the art, are shortchanged and don't come across as believable.
IMHO, TA should have been a written short story in the booklet, with all the details necessary to make all parts believable, and the songs would have focused on key characterand plot parts.

[jsbru]

For those that care about such stuff...

The album's ranking on Prog Rock Archives just inched past 4 stars some time in the last 24 hours.  The only other DT albums past 4 stars are I&W, Awake, SFAM, and 6DOIT.

Sites like Rate Your Music still have it ranked as their worst album, but those people are a bunch of mouth-breathers, anyways.

[James Sucellus]

The album's ranking on Prog Rock Archives just inched past 4 stars some time in the last 24 hours.  The only other DT albums past 4 stars are I&W, Awake, SFAM, and 6DOIT.

I know many fans who think The Astonishing is the only DT album to reach the level of those classics. The pacing problems of Act II relegate it to fourth or fifth place of my top five (still processing), but these are the albums that remind me why I love DT. None of the rest come close, although they all have their strengths.

[jsbru]

I know many fans who think The Astonishing is the only DT album to reach the level of those classics. The pacing problems of Act II relegate it to fourth or fifth place of my top five (still processing), but these are the albums that remind me why I love DT. None of the rest come close, although they all have their strengths.

I've never been a huge fan of SFAM (IMO not a lot of weak spots, but not a lot of soaring highs, either, except for maybe Finally Free and Through Her Eyes) or 6DOIT (like the title track a ton, but the first disc is kind of weak), but I never thought they'd put out another album that could challenge I&W and Awake.  I think this one has potential.  I have to let it sink in for a bit, give it one more full listen, stop listening to it for a month or two, and then come back to it before I can really get a handle on where it's going to settle in.  But right now, it's within the realm of their best albums.

[James Sucellus]

The Great Debate's lyrics/concept are sort of embarrassing, but otherwise I think the first disc of 6DoIT is almost perfect. Disappear is one of my favourite DT songs.

Images and Words/Awake/SFAM are DT's masterpieces and 6DoIT/TA are their near masterpieces. It's good to finally have a solid top five, rather than trying to see the best in albums I'm not keen on as a whole in order to make up the numbers. I wish Octavarium clicked with me more, as it seems to with most fans.

[ariich]

Key parts, like Nefaryus' change of mind from switching from an oppressive ruler to a benign supporter of the art, are shortchanged and don't come across as believable.

Not sure why you think that - at the very latest it starts in A New Beginning where we discover that he is not really such a bad guy after all. Arguably it starts in When Your Time Has Come or thereabouts, where he is visibly moved by Gabriel's singing. So it's pretty clearly signposting and doesn't happen suddenly.

[Bertielee]

Completely agree with Ariich on Nafaryus's change.
One thing that bothers me about the album, and I already said in another thread, is that Act 1 and Act 2 doesn't seem to belong to the same album. I mean, theay are so different in character. Btw, Act 1 is great, Act 2 is just good. The problem I have with Act 2, besides being so different from Act 1, is the problem I had with DT 12 : I find it has little to no repeat value, so much so that I have a tendency to only listen to Act 1 (my listening experience would be Act 1, 8 times, Act 2, 5 times and the gap is widening).

B.Lee

[James Sucellus]

Act I is consistently brilliant, whilst Act 2 meanders in the middle. Thankfully it recovers in time for what is, in my opinion, a very strong finale.

[BlobVanDam]

If it weren't for Our New World, I could do without Act II entirely. Most of it I either strongly dislike, or find completely forgettable after many listens. Even Act I loses some steam in the second half.
This is why I was concerned about a double disc album from the start. Keeping the quality up for over 2 hours of music is just not going to happen. If this album was a single disc, it could have easily been top half of DT's discography.