*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[RoeDent]

My only real complaint is that the ending isn't as epic as expected, given the size of this story.

There is so much wrong with this sentence. It's the most epic ending to a DT album since Octavarium.

[GJE]

Have now listened to the album, so about 8 times and thinks it is a good album.
But I will find the mix much too flat, everything sounds too massive.
If I Steven Wilson 4 1/2 play after, you hear very well how it can.
So DT, time for another mixer.
Would do a remix by Steven Wilson want to hear, he is so terribly good in it.
However, I enjoy the album.

[wasp2020]

He actually wrote a long review, wasteland just quoted the very last part from it.

Here's some other quotes:

"These 5 have regressed back into their 20's, trying to convince everybody that there is absolutely nothing they can't play, no solo that is beyond them, no idea that can't be stopped in its tracks and completely put aside in favor of another one in a blink of an eye. In a word: they are still showing off."

"...they will immediately obliterate any hope of permanence by switching gears and going to either the most outrageous display of instrumentalist pyrotechnics they can put out..."

It truly makes no sense at all.

[MirrorMask]

My only real complaint is that the ending isn't as epic as expected, given the size of this story.

There is so much wrong with this sentence. It's the most epic ending to a DT album since Octavarium.

Heard it only once but I agree that the ending of the album sounds very bombastic and epic.

[RoeDent]

Anyone else noticed a general change to a more positive vibe in DT's music since Portnoy left? Particularly, there is more major-key music now. Before hearing the ending to Illumination Theory, for example, the only DT music in the key of C major that I heard was in Only A Matter of Time.

[scythe]

In terms of Portnoy liking or disliking this, I really don't think we'd get this album if he was still in the band and running the show.

And even if it did happen, he'd probably want to do half the characters. "You only have three days...ROOOOAAAAAARRRRRRR"

[wasp2020]

In terms of Portnoy liking or disliking this, I really don't think we'd get this album if he was still in the band and running the show.

And even if it did happen, he'd probably want to do half the characters. "You only have three days...ROOOOAAAAAARRRRRRR"

"You have three days, or we'll send in the Cookie Monster after you!"

[BlobVanDam]

Anyone else noticed a general change to a more positive vibe in DT's music since Portnoy left? Particularly, there is more major-key music now. Before hearing the ending to Illumination Theory, for example, the only DT music in the key of C major that I heard was in Only A Matter of Time.

Why that particular key though? There are a lot of other major keys that they've used plenty, like E and D. C isn't really a common major key for guitar.
The only DT albums that were really devoid of major key stuff were TOT and SC, but given the darker/heavier tone of those albums, it wouldn't have fit. On BCASL, you had a lot of TBOT in major key, and every other album had a lot of it too.
There have been some more upbeat songs in the MM era, but I felt on ADTOE and DT12 they all came across as really cheesy.

However, I do think on The Astonishing they've really recaptured that great major key style that they had in the MP era. TGOM and Our New World remind me a lot of SDOIT (the song), both of which turned out fantastic. (yeah some of these are probably technically mixolydian, but I consider that a better version of major)

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Only two (four) spins in. Still in digestion mode. Musically, there's a lot of great things on. The story wasn't as grand scale as all the choose between the Empire and Militia build up stuff had led me to believe, but that won't keep me from listening to and enjoying the music.

[Thematt202]

Noxon, if you're around, can you tell us now which song your daughter wanted to download? I have a 15 month old and she started headbanging as soon as Dystopian Overture kicked off!

[MirrorMask]

At my second listening I'm already having shivers during A Better Life and When your Time has Come!

"When you're facing the path that divides
Know that I will be there by your side"...

James at his very very awesome best!!!!

[mikemangioy]

My opinion:

The Astonishing is a great record, I admire DT for trying something so different, so late in their career, kinda like Rush did with Clockwork Angels (which worked in a similar enviorment, story-wise.)
I think this album will grow more on me, but so far I quite like it. It has some flaws, of course (some of the melodies are not that original in my opinion, and I could've done well with less songs dealing with the same topic - ex.: Begin Again/Act Of Faythe, The X Aspect/Moment Of Betrayal. I would've liked a song about Nafaryus' childhood, or a song from Daryus' POV, after he goes deaf.)

But, really, this album works spectacularly for its purpose: telling a story. It's one of the most creative DT albums too, and one that is so varied in the emotional spectrum. I laugh listening to Three Days, same as I cry during Astonishing or Losing Faythe.

Overall, it's really capable of putting you into The Great Northen Empire and follow the story that's unfolding.

As far as songs IMO:

FAVORITES:
A Better Life
Ravenskill (probably my favorite overall)
Three Days
Act Of Faythe
Chosen
A Savior In The Square/When Your Time Has Come
The Walking Shadow
The Path That Divides
Astonishing

I still have to get into some tracks, but damn.
Also, James really shines in this record. It's his redemption for all the instrumental wankery of the past 

[axeman90210]

On listen #2... this is going to take a while to digest. Enjoying most of the music so far, but I definitely need to find some time to sit down and just listen and follow along with the lyrics.

[RoeDent]

Towards the end of my second full listen (currently on Whispers on the Wind), and I'm spotting more and more of the recurring themes.

[MirrorMask]

Towards the end of my second full listen (currently on Whispers on the Wind), and I'm spotting more and more of the recurring themes.

Yup, that's when the fun really begins!

[V_R11]

This album is JLB telling the haters to suck it

[erwinrafael]

So I finished my listen where I said I would focus on JM. I turned down the volume amd I used the large earbuds for my in-ears so that the bass woukd boost.

Wow. JM is the silent killer here. He did not go for flash and speedy playing but focused on being the rhythm section and it's amazing work. Especially loved his work on the slow songs.

[Enigmachine]

So I finished my listen where I said I would focus on JM. I turned down the volume amd I used the large earbuds for my in-ears so that the bass woukd boost.

Wow. JM is the silent killer here. He did not go for flash and speedy playing but focused on being the rhythm section and it's amazing work. Especially loved his work on the slow songs.

The same would go for MM (probably JP too, actually). There are a lot of subtleties in the songs I can hear even from the first listen, the album is really well composed.

[erwinrafael]

So I finished my listen where I said I would focus on JM. I turned down the volume amd I used the large earbuds for my in-ears so that the bass woukd boost.

Wow. JM is the silent killer here. He did not go for flash and speedy playing but focused on being the rhythm section and it's amazing work. Especially loved his work on the slow songs.

The same would go for MM (probably JP too, actually). There are a lot of subtleties in the songs I can hear even from the first listen, the album is really well composed.

MM definitely. Which is why I laugh when I read comments saying that Mangini's playing here is simple. There's this part in Dystopian Overture, for example, where it took mh second listen that the ride is playing along to JR's playful piano playing. And then in another part of DO, where he is doing this beat with the toms (after that break where JP did a Rush-like lead), I realized on second listen that he is doing it with just one hand because I can hear cymbals in the left speaker. LOL

[Moor]

In terms of Portnoy liking or disliking this, I really don't think we'd get this album if he was still in the band and running the show. Don't think he'd be a massive fan".

Are you sure? The wall is MP favourite album of all time!

[BelichickFan]

I loved the CD anyway but it's so enhanced following along with the lyrics.  Despite some, on other forums, laughing at the story I think it's a nice story; but aside from that the playing, in so many places, is appropriate and enhancing of what's happening in the story.

The only track that bugs me right now is Chosen, it sounds way too much like a song that Journey should have written.

[chrisbDTM]

The Answer is pure Disney (not a bad thing). an animated princess should be staring out a window singing it.

[MirrorMask]

This album is JLB telling the haters to suck it

Haha, true!

[BlobVanDam]

So I finished my listen where I said I would focus on JM. I turned down the volume amd I used the large earbuds for my in-ears so that the bass woukd boost.

Wow. JM is the silent killer here. He did not go for flash and speedy playing but focused on being the rhythm section and it's amazing work. Especially loved his work on the slow songs.

The same would go for MM (probably JP too, actually). There are a lot of subtleties in the songs I can hear even from the first listen, the album is really well composed.

MM definitely. Which is why I laugh when I read comments saying that Mangini's playing here is simple. There's this part in Dystopian Overture, for example, where it took mh second listen that the ride is playing along to JR's playful piano playing. And then in another part of DO, where he is doing this beat with the toms (after that break where JP did a Rush-like lead), I realized on second listen that he is doing it with just one hand because I can hear cymbals in the left speaker. LOL

What ride bit are you talking about? The only thing I can find that resembles that is just after the minute mark, but he's just playing straight 16ths there (as is the piano aside from JR's expressive tempo pushing) along with a very simple bass/snare. The ride is fast, but the beat itself is very simple. Unless you mean a different bit.

The bit with the toms is one of my favourite MM bits on the album, and shows his limb independence, but neither hand is playing particularly fast, so it's not that crazy (and the kick is straight 1/4 notes). I like that the hi-hat isn't playing an even beat though. The H HHH HHH HHH HH pattern adds that bit of extra groove (ZOMG THAT'S THE SECRET WORD) to it. Did that remind anyone else of the instrumental section of Trial of Tears? The beats aren't actually similar, I just got a similar vibe from it.

But my favourite drum bit of Dystopian Overture is actually at about 3 and a half minutes, with the alternating bars of 4/4 & 7/8, where the snare keeps playing in even 1/4 notes so that after the 7/8 trunctation, the snare is now on the opposite beat/accent until after the next bar of 7/8 (something MP did many times that I liked), while the bass loosely plays along with the riff. That's probably my favourite air drum section of the album, playing along with the snare, while managing the ride/crash without screwing up the snare. (and screw the kick because I'm no MM)

[Soulshifter]

Hello! My first post. Has everybody noticed that the videos on dt.net are the same or it just me?
If im right... What would be there and when its suppose to be released?


I'm quite intrigued


Best regards,

[erwinrafael]

So I finished my listen where I said I would focus on JM. I turned down the volume amd I used the large earbuds for my in-ears so that the bass woukd boost.

Wow. JM is the silent killer here. He did not go for flash and speedy playing but focused on being the rhythm section and it's amazing work. Especially loved his work on the slow songs.

The same would go for MM (probably JP too, actually). There are a lot of subtleties in the songs I can hear even from the first listen, the album is really well composed.

MM definitely. Which is why I laugh when I read comments saying that Mangini's playing here is simple. There's this part in Dystopian Overture, for example, where it took mh second listen that the ride is playing along to JR's playful piano playing. And then in another part of DO, where he is doing this beat with the toms (after that break where JP did a Rush-like lead), I realized on second listen that he is doing it with just one hand because I can hear cymbals in the left speaker. LOL

What ride bit are you talking about? The only thing I can find that resembles that is just after the minute mark, but he's just playing straight 16ths there (as is the piano aside from JR's expressive tempo pushing) along with a very simple bass/snare. The ride is fast, but the beat itself is very simple. Unless you mean a different bit.

I think we're talking about the same section.  That part is indeed not hard, but it is not just straight 16ths, but has accents that complemented what JR is playing. So for me it is not simple compositionally. Very subtles highlighting, like how he used the rides to highlight the harmony in the guitar solo of The Bigger Picture.

My favorite drum part for the whole album is a slow part, The Walking Shadow building up to the stabbing. MM and JR established an ominous pattern, then the snare followed JLB while MM maintains the beat with JM.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

In terms of Portnoy liking or disliking this, I really don't think we'd get this album if he was still in the band and running the show.

And even if it did happen, he'd probably want to do half the characters. "You only have three days...ROOOOAAAAAARRRRRRR"

More like:

And we'll live eteeeernally, in haaaarmony! Our lives will be astonishing again! ROAAAAAAAAAAAR

Remember the roars are a reaction to a positive event, like JP and the others surviving the car crash.

[Zydar]

"By the grace of God above, Faythe survived. HUH!"

[BlobVanDam]

So I finished my listen where I said I would focus on JM. I turned down the volume amd I used the large earbuds for my in-ears so that the bass woukd boost.

Wow. JM is the silent killer here. He did not go for flash and speedy playing but focused on being the rhythm section and it's amazing work. Especially loved his work on the slow songs.

The same would go for MM (probably JP too, actually). There are a lot of subtleties in the songs I can hear even from the first listen, the album is really well composed.

MM definitely. Which is why I laugh when I read comments saying that Mangini's playing here is simple. There's this part in Dystopian Overture, for example, where it took mh second listen that the ride is playing along to JR's playful piano playing. And then in another part of DO, where he is doing this beat with the toms (after that break where JP did a Rush-like lead), I realized on second listen that he is doing it with just one hand because I can hear cymbals in the left speaker. LOL

What ride bit are you talking about? The only thing I can find that resembles that is just after the minute mark, but he's just playing straight 16ths there (as is the piano aside from JR's expressive tempo pushing) along with a very simple bass/snare. The ride is fast, but the beat itself is very simple. Unless you mean a different bit.

I think we're talking about the same section.  That part is indeed not hard, but it is not just straight 16ths, but has accents that complemented what JR is playing. So for me it is not simple compositionally. Very subtles highlighting, like how he used the rides to highlight the harmony in the guitar solo of The Bigger Picture.

I think we'll have to disagree on that section, because it sounds like straight 16ths to me. The dynamic accents didn't seem to correspond closely to JR, just to the song rhythm itself.
I'm not trying to downplay MM's playing though, I just disagree he's doing what you say there. I do however genuinely love his drumming on all of Dystopian Overture. I finally want to air drum to MM!
And I can hear the subtle ghost rolls on Act of Faythe, and dynamics on the snare (like at the 4 minute mark). I didn't think the drum sound would work on the lighter songs (as it didn't on DT12), but I love the drumming on that one too. There's nothing specifically mind blowing about it, I just think he does a great job of fitting the song, not too little, not too much.

[Awaken]

Really enjoying the vast majority of this album, but I can't help but wonder how James is going to pull this off live.  Add to that the CT show 4/20 is the tail end of three straight evenings - I can see him being a bit fatigued by then.  Really hoping I'm wrong cause I cannot wait to see this performed live.

[Lucien]

Anyone else noticed a general change to a more positive vibe in DT's music since Portnoy left? Particularly, there is more major-key music now. Before hearing the ending to Illumination Theory, for example, the only DT music in the key of C major that I heard was in Only A Matter of Time.

I absolutely LOVE this aspect of The Astonishing. MAJOR metal! All of those moments are just amazing. The Gift of Music, A New Beginning, etc etc are all AWESOME

[KevShmev]

I doubt JLB will be able to constantly pull off keeping the right "voice" for each character live, since his live singing is always a bit of a mixed bag, but I say, so what?  The album is what we will be listening to for years, and he pulled it off on that, so mad props. 

[Kotowboy]

I can't imagine MM standing up to play and shouting " URRRRGHHHHH " into the mic.

[Awaken]

I doubt JLB will be able to constantly pull off keeping the right "voice" for each character live, since his live singing is always a bit of a mixed bag, but I say, so what?  The album is what we will be listening to for years, and he pulled it off on that, so mad props. 

Completely agree re: the album, he's the MVP for me even though I'm really enjoying the piano and restraint from Jordan, as well.

[dparrott]

Yea I love how the majority of the album is in major keys, makes it feel very upbeat. 

Watching the interview videos now, JP's beard is starting to look like Rick Rubin's haha