*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[Bacong]

Systematic Chaos great and TA very very bad? come on bro.

[Captainchaos204]

The one thing that stands out the most for me (being a pianist) is that Rudess uses real piano and organs, etc.   It really bugs me with the mediocre B3 sound he uses in his songs .  I know its easier for him to use 1 keyboard for his sounds, but having a real piano and organ makes the whole experience that much more immersive for me.  Like, half way through Ravenskill 2:40ish mark.   The B3 gives me chills.

[lovethedrake]

I'm about 4 full spins in now.   It's fantastic how everything starts to click and I find myself just immersed in the world they created.  The slow parts don't bother me at all now.  In fact I think many of them are fantastic.

This album truly might have a chance to dethrone one of the "big 3" which for me is SFAM, I&W, SDOIT.   I am not there yet but the fact that I think its a possibility is just amazing.   

Labrie is fantastic on this album.  He has killed it on the last two releases now which is super exciting and this is his best performance by far since SDOIT. 

My only complaint now is that Hymn of a Thousand words is a tad slower than I had hoped.   The climax really happens when Gabriel screams which should have been a bit more pronounced.  The ending of the story seems rushed and its somewhat disappointing that Nafaryus just gives in so easily and suddenly becomes a good guy overnight.

Honestly though the story is far less important to me than the music.   So the fact that music is still incredible throughout, it doesn't really bug me too much that the stories climax is a tad underwhelming.   SFAM is my favorite DT album and I can honestly say I have never actually taken the time to read through the lyrics and dive into the plot.

Anyways, just a brilliant effort.   Its so nice to have a DT album that is just flat out fun to listen to again.

[Progmetty]

Malt Licky you're obviously a fan of prog metal and TA is more on the prog rock side, I'm sure they'll go back to the prog metal sooner or later, they're more comfortable there IMO.
The Astonishing is a DT statement that says "See we know prog rock, we just like doing prog metal"

[Lucien]

Gone are interesting instrumental sections and in are uninteresting choruses and sections that are 3 parts sappy, 3 parts cheesy, 3 parts pretentious, and 6 parts forgettable.

Forgettable just isn't right. I've got themes all over the album stuck in my head right now, and I've only listened to it once all the way through.

Interesting instrumental sections have been on every single Dream Theater album, including this one, but if they were to completely STOP, I'd be fine with it.

They're good at making music that is theoretically (referring to music theory) complex without devolving (yep, used that word) into meaningless, emotionless runs, and scales, especially given the context of some of the songs. Stuff like THAT often makes their music cheesy for me (do the lyrics really have anything to do with this?), and I'd even argue that THAT sort of material is more pretentious than anything on this album.

This album is essentially the antithesis of that. The music is heavily about its lyrics and story, so when the music goes into the fast runs and scales, it does not seem out of place, given the context of the story.

This album is on the top of my list, and, unlike DT12 at the time of its release, I expect it to stay there.

[Crow]

i just don't understand how a song like "three days" can be "featureless" 

[lovethedrake]

It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing" as I have the complete opposite reaction.

To me Octavarium was an utterly uninspired effort and arguably their worst album whereas The Astonishing just oozes with inspiration and is their best album in 15 years... maybe even longer!

But hey, thats the beauty of music.

[ResultsMayVary]

My only real complaint is that the ending isn't as epic as expected, given the size of this story.

There is so much wrong with this sentence. It's the most epic ending to a DT album since Octavarium.

The problem I have is that some people are missing the stereotypical long song epic rather than an actual epic ending.

[emtee]

I've got quite a few spins under my belt now. It's an epic piece of work for certain. It's actually mentally draining to get through
the whole thing because so many songs have a feel like they are an epic closer but then it segues into another epic'ish grandiose
song. I do wish there were a little more dynamics to MM's drums at times but all in all his recording is much improved over
the last 2.

I think I may have to create my own abbreviated version of the album though because I won't often have 2 hours to sit and listen.
Combining the best parts of I and II will serve as The Astonishing 'Light'...

So much thought, effort and orchestration went into this that there should be some critical acclaim. If not us fans should chip
in some pennies and buy them a damn trophy 

One very minor gripe is it's virtually impossible to read the white on white parts of the artwork. I actually got out some magnifying
reading glasses to see some of it.

Still too early to rank but I assume it will be in the top tier of DT albums.

Huge kudos to the entire band! Congrats on the final product and as a long time fan I sure appreciate the risk that they took.

[fischermasamune]

It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing" as I have the complete opposite reaction.

To me Octavarium was an utterly uninspired effort and arguably their worst album whereas The Astonishing just oozes with inspiration and is their best album in 15 years... maybe even longer!

But hey, thats the beauty of music.

Without the title track, it would be the worst album after WDADU, I agree. But what do you think about Octavarium the song?

[ResultsMayVary]

Systematic Chaos great and TA very very bad? come on bro.

Agreed. An opinion that SC was great is a minority amongst the fans. Too early to say for TA, though, but I doubt it ends up in the same hemisphere as SC.

[Malt Licky]

Malt Licky you're obviously a fan of prog metal and TA is more on the prog rock side, I'm sure they'll go back to the prog metal sooner or later, they're more comfortable there IMO.
The Astonishing is a DT statement that says "See we know prog rock, we just like doing prog metal"

I don't think that's it, unfortunately. I love Images & Words, A Change of Seasons, etc.---all albums that are more prog rock than prog metal, I would think. I'm also a big fan of Transaltantic, and surely they are prog rock. I hate to say it, but I think that The Astonishing is just a bad album. A very bad one, coming from DT.

[Malt Licky]

Systematic Chaos great and TA very very bad? come on bro.

Agreed. An opinion that SC was great is a minority amongst the fans. Too early to say for TA, though, but I doubt it ends up in the same hemisphere as SC.

It is great with caveats, I suppose. All things considered, perhaps "good" is a more appropriate judgment of SC. Even so, it is miles above TA, I submit.

[pdurbin22]

A message to Petrucci: as a father of three, you had to know the Xander storyline would induce some tears for those of us with young kids. Dammit John! Thanks for making me cry while rocking...

All that aside, I really enjoy this album.

[pringkaarwanda]

And here I am, still refreshing The Astonishing website about every 1 or 2 hour, hope a different video show up in second video slot and something appear when I click NOMACS eyes 
Deep in my heart, I really hope that second video is video clip of Dystopian Overture with a cool 3D animation 

[Krissi91]

On my first listen, I thought there were too many ballads, but after a few more spins I really love these great melodies and James just puts so much emotion into the slower songs. It's a very complex album with many songs not even having a real chorus, but after I got used to their structure, I now appreciate how well the different parts flow into each other.
My favourite songs right now are Ravenskill, Chosen, A new beginning, Three Days, Aspect X, Heaven's Cove. But that changes with every listen
It's a very ambitious piece of music, and I'm glad they're still taking risks this late into their career and don't seem to care about criticism and bad reviews. I can't wait to see how the live show will turn out.

[Kotowboy]

It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing".

It still amazes me that people can't accept other people have different tastes.

[Logain Ablar]

Personally, I think some folks struggling with the album may have come to it thinking it's something it's not.

The band have been very upfront in saying that it was conceived as a rock opera. In the Eddie Trunk interview, JP said that the best way to listen to it was sitting chilled out, headphones, listening to it all in one sitting.

To me, this makes total sense, as they've written it to be something to be presented on stage - exactly what they're doing with the tour.

If Broadway/West End musical theatre isn't your thing, and your tastes lie elsewhere, that's totally cool, but in that format, the story and characters have to come first, with musical showoffery taking a back seat.

That's something I think they have pulled off amazingly well with TA, but if you're thinking of the album as just a collection of songs, I think you may be doing it a disservice. This one is a different animal altogether.. 

Just my opinion, of course..

[Progmetty]

And here I am, still refreshing The Astonishing website about every 1 or 2 hour, hope a different video show up in second video slot and something appear when I click NOMACS eyes 
Deep in my heart, I really hope that second video is video clip of Dystopian Overture with a cool 3D animation 

For years to come, pringkaarwanda continued refreshing The Astonishing page, he lost his job for failure to show up, his friends got together and brought him in for an intervention after cutting off the internet lines in his house to get him off the refresh button, he moved to the sidewalk of a coffee shop to use their wifi and keep trying,  his wife subsequently left him and his kids were taken away by child services.
On January 31th 2022 an RIP thread was made for pringkaarwanda on DTF as he was found on that sidewalk outside the coffee shop with all his fingers bruised and disfigured from clicking the refresh button on The Astonighing page.
RR issued an official apology, on the anniversary on February 1st 2023.

[Kotowboy]

I could easily listen to the whole thing in one go but I want to do other stuff

[pringkaarwanda]

And here I am, still refreshing The Astonishing website about every 1 or 2 hour, hope a different video show up in second video slot and something appear when I click NOMACS eyes 
Deep in my heart, I really hope that second video is video clip of Dystopian Overture with a cool 3D animation 

For years to come, pringkaarwanda continued refreshing The Astonishing page, he lost his job for failure to show up, his friends got together and brought him in for an intervention after cutting off the internet lines in his house to get him off the refresh button, he moved to the sidewalk of a coffee shop to use their wifi and keep trying,  his wife subsequently left him and his kids were taken away by child services.
On January 31th 2022 an RIP thread was made for pringkaarwanda on DTF as he was found on that sidewalk outside the coffee shop with all his fingers bruised and disfigured from clicking the refresh button on The Astonighing page.
RR issued an official apology, on the anniversary on February 1st 2023.

Hahahaha, I found this so funny to read 
Please DT, upload second video and make something cool appear when I click NOMAC eyes, so I can die in peace 

[Logain Ablar]

I could easily listen to the whole thing in one go but I want to do other stuff

People just don't have the time for..

Sorry - that one's been done already. 

[Kotowboy]

People just don't have the time for two hours and ten minutes of one album in one sitting anymore

[ResultsMayVary]

Systematic Chaos great and TA very very bad? come on bro.

Agreed. An opinion that SC was great is a minority amongst the fans. Too early to say for TA, though, but I doubt it ends up in the same hemisphere as SC.

It is great with caveats, I suppose. All things considered, perhaps "good" is a more appropriate judgment of SC. Even so, it is miles above TA, I submit.

I have to respectfully disagree. Even after 5-6 listens of TA, I've found it much more cohesive and memorable than SC.

[Outcrier]

It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing" as I have the complete opposite reaction.

Dude, Octavarium is one of their most liked albums after the big four (IAW, Awake,SFAM, SDOIT). It's not anything surprising that some love it.

[erwinrafael]

To those who insist that there is no dynamics in MM's drumming, is the volume of the snare at the start of A New Beginning the same as the volume of the snare when the groove of the song kicks in?

If your answer is yes, your problem is with your ears. Or your equipment.

[Crow]

whatever happened to riff-based instrumentals, though
the soloing on this album is generally pretty good but i miss having at least a little of the chaotic bits like Breaking All Illusions, Bridges in the Sky, Outcry, heck, Lost Not Forgotten even has them (and I don't really like that song much)

whereas aside from the overture tracks there's really not much of that on The Astonishing

[pcs90]

whatever happened to riff-based instrumentals, though
the soloing on this album is generally pretty good but i miss having at least a little of the chaotic bits like Breaking All Illusions, Bridges in the Sky, Outcry, heck, Lost Not Forgotten even has them (and I don't really like that song much)

whereas aside from the overture tracks there's really not much of that on The Astonishing

The Gift of Music, Moment of Betrayal, My Last Farewell, and A New Beginning have some of that, but yeah, there's certainly much less. I love the solos though so I don't mind one bit.

[erwinrafael]

whatever happened to riff-based instrumentals, though
the soloing on this album is generally pretty good but i miss having at least a little of the chaotic bits like Breaking All Illusions, Bridges in the Sky, Outcry, heck, Lost Not Forgotten even has them (and I don't really like that song much)

whereas aside from the overture tracks there's really not much of that on The Astonishing

Because the songs are much shorter and is focused on putting forward the song, not the instrumental. A New Beginning has some of those transitions you are looking for.

What the songs have a lot here though are several transitions in musical themes within a song to reflect conversatioms between characters. Which is actually harder to compose.

[metrojam]

It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing".

It still amazes me that people can't accept other people have different tastes.

Hear hear!....It's really annoying me that so many people in here just can't accept that other people having different opinions and tastes to their own is not something to be derided or put down.

[lovethedrake]

It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing".

It still amazes me that people can't accept other people have different tastes.

Hear hear!....It's really annoying me that so many people in here just can't accept that other people having different opinions and tastes to their own is not something to be derided or put down.

It amazes me how many people like to take quotes out of context and don't read the rest of my post.   "But hey, thats the beauty of music".     I think thats pretty clear that I am saying the beauty of music is that people have varying tastes.   So not sure what you guys are trying to start here.

[KevShmev]

whatever happened to riff-based instrumentals, though
the soloing on this album is generally pretty good but i miss having at least a little of the chaotic bits like Breaking All Illusions, Bridges in the Sky, Outcry, heck, Lost Not Forgotten even has them (and I don't really like that song much)

whereas aside from the overture tracks there's really not much of that on The Astonishing

That's because this is a different kind of Dream Theater album, in case you hadn't heard.

[Hanz Gruber]

Personally, I think some folks struggling with the album may have come to it thinking it's something it's not.

The band have been very upfront in saying that it was conceived as a rock opera. In the Eddie Trunk interview, JP said that the best way to listen to it was sitting chilled out, headphones, listening to it all in one sitting.

To me, this makes total sense, as they've written it to be something to be presented on stage - exactly what they're doing with the tour.

If Broadway/West End musical theatre isn't your thing, and your tastes lie elsewhere, that's totally cool, but in that format, the story and characters have to come first, with musical showoffery taking a back seat.

That's something I think they have pulled off amazingly well with TA, but if you're thinking of the album as just a collection of songs, I think you may be doing it a disservice. This one is a different animal altogether.. 

Just my opinion, of course..

That isn;t why I don;t like it as much as I want to like it.  I like rock operas like Savatage - Streets, Dead Winter Dead, and Wake of Magellan.  Those albums are full of songs that stand on their own and actually evoke emotion from me.  I like Dream Theater better than Savatage but Savatage is much better at making rock operas IMO.

Many of these songs sound like lyrics were forced in to tell the story and that the story was more important than the music itself

What I am most disappointed in thus far are that there are brilliant moments within songs that I just don;t really care for as a whole.  These moments are wasting upon me because I don;t want to listen to a song that I don;t care for just for moments of brilliance. 

A lot of songs at the end of disc 1 started sounding like mishmashes used to tell a story.  I never felt that way about Savatage rock operas.  Disc 1 started strong with beautiful songs like The Answer (even though it is short), Savior in the Square, and Act of Faythe.  Most of the songs near the end of disc 1 are not memorable and don;t sound like they can stand on their own.

I also don;t care about the story and feel zero emotion about it.  A Rock Opera like Dead Winter Dead had a great emotional ending as well as The Wake Of Magellan and actually amplified the songs.

I get more feeling and emotion from a song like Goodnight Kiss or Wait for Sleep than anything on this album (God give me the power to pull breath from a breeze and call life from a cold metal frame)  The story and lyrics actually hurt the songs for me.  Many of these would have worked much better as stand alone songs.  Just my opinion. 

Glad that other love it.  So far it just doesn't do much for me.   I don;t rip CD but I may make my own version and cut out about 20 songs. 

[Crow]

you guys can't brush it off by saying "it's a different type of album" 
i know that. that doesn't mean they couldn't vary up their instrumental sections a little when they do have them.

[lovethedrake]

It amazes me that someone can love "Octavarium" and hate "The Astonishing" as I have the complete opposite reaction.

To me Octavarium was an utterly uninspired effort and arguably their worst album whereas The Astonishing just oozes with inspiration and is their best album in 15 years... maybe even longer!

But hey, thats the beauty of music.

Without the title track, it would be the worst album after WDADU, I agree. But what do you think about Octavarium the song?

I do like the title track but I think they mailed in the rest.  I go back and forth on which their worst album is between Octavarium and Systematic Chaos because SC has some interesting parts but nothing great while Octavarium is mainly uninspired but does have a pretty decent epic.