*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[SwedishGoose]

I guess JM will walk to his sofa at the side of the stage and drink Starbucks during those times.

Mangini will join him and they will play a game of "Chess" during the show 

[Peter Mc]

Can't help but think this album would be a little better with MP's drumming.  I miss all his different percussion sounds he'd make.

As much as it bugs me to admit I agree with this, I do.  That's not to say I don't love what I'm hearing here from Mangini.  But....yeah....I'd love to hear Portnoy's take on this.  Wait, no, that doesn't sound right.  I don't want his opinion on this album.  I already know what that will be 


I mean, I'd love to hear him play what he'd like to play on an album like this.

I agree that it would be interesting to hear MP's playing on this album but will say again that, if Portnoy was still in control of this band, we would not have this album for him to play on.  No way does he let JP/JR go off on their own and do this and no way would he abandon his attempts to gain metal credibility for DT by going in the totally opposite direction and making a musical theatre album.  I would not say that Mangini had no input into this either, I am assuming that he has written his own drum parts.

In a totally separate issue, I can't believe so many are writing off the title track as either being unnecessary or being a bit of a damp squib which does not end the thing in an epic way.  I think it is a totally epic ending (although not in their usual extended soloing kind of a way) and love the last song.  In particular (and I know this is weird!) I like the way James sings the word "change" in Fayth's part.  It's weird how little things sometimes stick with me like that, it's just different to what I was expecting when I heard him sing that line and I like it.

[MirrorMask]

I absolutely agree that the title track is amazing and a grandiose finale to the whole thing!

[thosava]

I agree. The final verse is a very epic and grand ending to the album.

[BelichickFan]

I absolutely agree that the title track is amazing and a grandiose finale to the whole thing!

It is a great ending.  I wish they'd cut "again", though, so that "astonishing" was the last word.  And as ridiculous as this sounds for a 2 Hr. 10 Min. album, I wish the finale was a little longer.

Possibly my favorite album from my favorite band, though.  I guess time will tell but it's definitely in the very top group of DT albums for me.

[mikeyd23]

I like TGoM video! Cool stuff and definitely a good music video by DT standards.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Can't help but think this album would be a little better with MP's drumming.  I miss all his different percussion sounds he'd make.

As much as it bugs me to admit I agree with this, I do.  That's not to say I don't love what I'm hearing here from Mangini.  But....yeah....I'd love to hear Portnoy's take on this.  Wait, no, that doesn't sound right.  I don't want his opinion on this album.  I already know what that will be 


I mean, I'd love to hear him play what he'd like to play on an album like this.

I agree that it would be interesting to hear MP's playing on this album but will say again that, if Portnoy was still in control of this band, we would not have this album for him to play on.  No way does he let JP/JR go off on their own and do this and no way would he abandon his attempts to gain metal credibility for DT by going in the totally opposite direction and making a musical theatre album.  I would not say that Mangini had no input into this either, I am assuming that he has written his own drum parts.

This is a good point. You can't have Portnoy on drums without his creative influence, and I don't think he would have been on board with this record. That's pure speculation on my part, but it just doesn't seem like it would be his thing.

I personally enjoy Mangini's drumming, and think it steals the show in a few places, like the end of "Begin Again".

[MirrorMask]

I absolutely agree that the title track is amazing and a grandiose finale to the whole thing!

It is a great ending.  I wish they'd cut "again", though, so that "astonishing" was the last word.  And as ridiculous as this sounds for a 2 Hr. 10 Min. album, I wish the finale was a little longer.

Yeah, the main theme that explodes in "People can you hear us" should have been repeated twice. And I agree that Astonishing should have been the last word, but it's a kinda weird word to close up a phrase with... even though I guess that if the melody suits the wording, it can be used.

[emtee]

I have no idea if the reviews seem overly negative because I have not read any but my concern is that IF the majority of fans
end not liking this it could be the end of JP taking the risk(s) that many of us have wished for years. He has always been a little
hesitant to veer from the core DT sound. Then again he seems pretty strong willed and they are on the back nine of their career
so he might feel comfortable doing whatever he wants until retirement. I love the risks they took and I hope he takes it even
further next time!

[King Postwhore]

They are at the point of their career that they do what they want and they are not swayed by fans or reviewers.  We don't have that much pull.

[Enigmachine]

I have no idea if the reviews seem overly negative because I have not read any but my concern is that IF the majority of fans
end not liking this it could be the end of JP taking the risk(s) that many of us have wished for years. He has always been a little
hesitant to veer from the core DT sound. Then again he seems pretty strong willed and they are on the back nine of their career
so he might feel comfortable doing whatever he wants until retirement. I love the risks they took and I hope he takes it even
further next time!

I have a feeling that the live show attendence will help JP decide if TA was a good idea rather than reviews.

[MirrorMask]

Exactly, was about to post that... the live shows will let DT know if they made "a mistake" or not, I hope they will be well received and that they will feel encouraged in doing whatever they want!

[Zydar]

Can't wait for the first show of the TA tour, to see how they manage to do it live, the visuals and such - it should be coming up soon right?

[Gromit1710]

They are at the point of their career that they do what they want and they are not swayed by fans or reviewers.  We don't have that much pull.

Well, that and I think they're aware that the core of their fanbase wants them to keep breaking new ground with their musical compositions and is going to enjoy it for what it is. The more I listen to it, the more I realize this is for those of us who embrace and follow them them for ALL their sounds and creativity... not what the industry or a loud, few and late coming, selective fans/reviewers wanted.

Not saying that every dedicated fan loves this album, but I think the difference between a dedicated fan that understands this band's career and legacy vs those that don't, is the vehemently negative reaction they've had to it. 

[MirrorMask]

Can't wait for the first show of the TA tour, to see how they manage to do it live, the visuals and such - it should be coming up soon right?

Three days.

X 5 times 

18th February is the start of the tour in London. I guess knowing already the setlist will shift the surprise to the stage set and the videos, so I will refrain from watching clips!

[Cyclopssss]

I cant'imagine anything but a standing ovation at the end. And Act 1 alone must be an exhausting excercise, God!

[cramx3]

I cant'imagine anything but a standing ovation at the end. And Act 1 alone must be an exhausting excercise, God!

Well anything less than a standing ovation at the end would be a huge f you to the band, regardless of whether you like TA or not.

[pringkaarwanda]

Wow !! Like TGoM video !!!! 
I can see there will be a great 3D animation visual they will use in upcoming concert, I love how camera walk throught heaven cove in TGoM video clip. But still no update from the astonishing page, that show TGoM video as second video there 

I wonder, will mike mangini still use Dream Theater selftitled print in his kick drum head, or he will print another pic with The Astonishing theme for his kick drum head?

[dparrott]

Yea I wish the NOMAC tracks were longer also.  There are some cool rhythmic parts in them that I wish I had time to loop and make into a song.

[Art]

I could see Portnoy playing on this record, after all, he is also a big Prog-Rock fan. But it would not be the same record, as i think he would have an active voice on the writing of the music and of the story.

[lovethedrake]

Can't help but think this album would be a little better with MP's drumming.  I miss all his different percussion sounds he'd make.

As much as it bugs me to admit I agree with this, I do.  That's not to say I don't love what I'm hearing here from Mangini.  But....yeah....I'd love to hear Portnoy's take on this.  Wait, no, that doesn't sound right.  I don't want his opinion on this album.  I already know what that will be 


I mean, I'd love to hear him play what he'd like to play on an album like this.

I agree that it would be interesting to hear MP's playing on this album but will say again that, if Portnoy was still in control of this band, we would not have this album for him to play on.  No way does he let JP/JR go off on their own and do this and no way would he abandon his attempts to gain metal credibility for DT by going in the totally opposite direction and making a musical theatre album.  I would not say that Mangini had no input into this either, I am assuming that he has written his own drum parts.

In a totally separate issue, I can't believe so many are writing off the title track as either being unnecessary or being a bit of a damp squib which does not end the thing in an epic way.  I think it is a totally epic ending (although not in their usual extended soloing kind of a way) and love the last song.  In particular (and I know this is weird!) I like the way James sings the word "change" in Fayth's part.  It's weird how little things sometimes stick with me like that, it's just different to what I was expecting when I heard him sing that line and I like it.

James' version of the word "change" is one of my favorite parts of the album haha.  Comes out of nowhere and sounds great for whatever reason.   You are on point with this observation in my opinion.

[genome]

Anyone else love the way James sings the word "rags" in Act of Faythe?

Raahhhygs

[RaasMah]

Just got this: The dirty organ after JP solo in TGOM makes a reprise in the beginning of the instrumental of A New Beginning. Sounds like the same chords to me, am I correct in this?

The more I listen to this song (A New Beginning) the more I love it. The rhythm guitar, the vocals, and than that godly instrumental, not just the last solo mind you. Im even starting to accept the fade out, as it fades away right after the big climax in the solo (unlike say Take the Time)
Seriously, I think it may be one of the best songs in their catalog.

[pantsofeternity]

I remember reading somewhere that a mandolin was used somehwere in the album. Could someone point out where it's used?

Hymn of a Thousand Voices maybe? 2:13-2:17. Sounds like a mandolin to me.

Yep, that's it.  It's mixed left (or right, if I have my headphones on backward).   I think the fiddle and mandolin on that track are an absolute highlight of the album.

ETA: Oh, and I wasn't checking the timestamps -- there's way more than four seconds of mandolin!

[jonny108]

I remember reading somewhere that a mandolin was used somehwere in the album. Could someone point out where it's used?

Hymn of a Thousand Voices maybe? 2:13-2:17. Sounds like a mandolin to me.

It starts at 56 seconds in and carries through the entire verse in the left channel, drops out for the chorus and comes back in at 1:40.   

[TheGreatPretender]

I have a feeling that the live show attendence will help JP decide if TA was a good idea rather than reviews.

Not necessarily. The other factor is the fact that it's being played in its entirety, and nothing else. I mean, I think with every album, there are people who don't like the album, but go see the show because they want to hear the songs they DO like, from the back catalog. In this case, people who don't like the album would avoid the concert because they know they won't be getting any of their classic favorites, but that doesn't say anything about the album itself. It could have the same ratio of likes and dislikes as their previous album. So there are some extra factors at play, and if the show gets a lower turnout that doesn't at all mean that the album itself was a bad idea. I'm guessing they're banking on the fact that given the nature of this show, and how it's supposed to be this epic rock opera, there will be some people who go see it out of curiosity who may not have ever been that interested in DT or something.

As for their direction in their future endeavors, it's pretty clear that JP is just doing what he feels passionate about and what feels right. I highly doubt he'll compromise that on the next album just to try and win over more people.

[Progmetty]

Playing a full show with no old fan favorite is gutsy as fuck, that's incredible confidence in the new material.
I personally would like another TA-like album with everything they'll learn from the feedback of this, like balancing the narrative:music ratio.

[Bertielee]

Frankly, after multiple listens, I can fairly say that some material on Act 1 brings me back to their heyday. So many fantastic moments there!

B.Lee

[Progmetty]

• I really love the NOMAC tracks.  I know it's never going to happen, but I was disappointed in how short they were, and I would have really enjoyed it if they made an entire 4-5 minute song out of one or two of these.  They ended just as I was getting in the mood for them.

I totally agree, I wish Rudess went nuts on these for longer, I dunno how he thought the chance to make killer bass sounds or go to town on Bebot is only worth a few minutes while the continuum intro to Octavarium needed to be 7 hours.
One of the NOMAC tracks though, I think it was Digital Discord, made them sound like 80's movies robots, didn't like that as much.

[BlackInk]

Just posting to say that while listening to the album at the moment, I just got goosebumps at the point where Arhys gets killed. Definitely another great moment where the music perfectly represents what's going on.

Yeah that's a really cool moment. I remember I said "whaaaat??" the first time I heard it, and we discussed it for a while.

[CDrice]

My sister just heard Digital Discord and it reminded her of small critters running around. I'll now be forever stuck with this image in my head whenever I hear it

[vtgrad]

Perhaps the NOMAC tracks will be extended a little live to give James a break... he's got a lot of work to do each night.  I could see Jordan having a little fun extending them a small amount.

I've been through the album 6-times now and it's grown on me with each listen.  First time through, I picked up large chunks that I liked a lot  and melodies that stayed with me; on subsequent listens however, I starting picking up the recurring themes and the story (haven't read the track-by-track explanations yet) jumped out at me more and more.  I'm proud of them for taking this risk, and for me anyway, it paid off!

I'm excited by the album, and I'm excited for the band!  I think the story is strong and I enjoy it; and, of course, the music is very strong.  Tasty stuff laid down by the whole band.  Can't wait for April and the opportunity to see it live!

[Shooters1221]

The more I listen to this song (A New Beginning) the more I love it. The rhythm guitar, the vocals, and than that godly instrumental, not just the last solo mind you. Im even starting to accept the fade out, as it fades away right after the big climax in the solo (unlike say Take the Time)
Seriously, I think it may be one of the best songs in their catalog.

Agreed. My favorite stand alone piece of TA!

[ResultsMayVary]

Can't wait for the first show of the TA tour, to see how they manage to do it live, the visuals and such - it should be coming up soon right?

Just a little over two weeks. I think the first show is on the 18th.

[Architeuthis]

I wonder if the Nomac tracks will be the pre-recorded versions from the album as interludes between songs, or if Jordan will play them live from his key pads..  It would be cool to see the Nomacs extended versions for the show..