The Astonishing - Unpopular opinions

[erwinrafael]

And I get that the story isn't a carbon copy but Petrucci should've chosen something that isn't as similar to Rush's 2112.

Because?

[Stadler]

Oh come on, you can't tell me that if you used multiple singers, you wouldn't have Russell Allen be Nafaryus. LaBrie could still be Arhys. I'd get John West or Tommy Karevik for Gabriel.

Am I the only one that isn't blown away by Russell Allen?   I wouldn't want him anywhere near this record.  Certainly he doesn't suck, but it's not at all like this album is SCREAMING for Russell Allen to be on it. 

[Stadler]

I really don't want to go negative because I really love the album. But I agree. I've come to this point of acceptance now that
moving forward with DT and staying on this ride I've been on since I&W requires me to understand that nobody will ever
make me as happy as MP did. I realize how uber talented MM is but I tend to think of him as the 2nd bass player who has
4 arms. Nothing about his performance stands out to me (and maybe it's not supposed to) but I was drawn to this band
because of the drummer in 1991 and I came to expect great things from each album. MM serves the music perfectly and
in lock step with everyone else but there are no parts that stand out to me with the exception of repeatedly thinking...
'that was a very fast roll'...

You and I are in almost total agreement on this point, even down to the years of introduction.    The one minor point I'd quibble with is the "perfectly" in reference to MM serving the music; there are a couple moments on the new record where he has 167 bass drum kicks where one or two would do.  I figure he got a new double-bass pedal for Christmas or something. 

[Gromit1710]

While I don't dislike Mangini, I think either by design or by limitations, His playing feels automated and bland to me on this album.

Like someone just used a good drum track machine instead of the playing from one of the best drummers in the industry right now.

*points to the groove at the end of A New Beginning*

Not one fill, ting, boop or flan through that whole thing. One or two kick tricks is all. Reminded me of listening to my parent's "Hooked On Classics" records where they just put an endless, looping disco beat behind Mozart and Beethoven. There's a number of other instances throughout the album where the playing feels so conservative and restrained that I wonder if he found himself struggling to keep up or something. 

Oh well. At least his tones are way better than D12, I think.

I really don't want to go negative because I really love the album. But I agree. I've come to this point of acceptance now that
moving forward with DT and staying on this ride I've been on since I&W requires me to understand that nobody will ever
make me as happy as MP did. I realize how uber talented MM is but I tend to think of him as the 2nd bass player who has
4 arms. Nothing about his performance stands out to me (and maybe it's not supposed to) but I was drawn to this band
because of the drummer in 1991 and I came to expect great things from each album. MM serves the music perfectly and
in lock step with everyone else but there are no parts that stand out to me with the exception of repeatedly thinking...
'that was a very fast roll'...

Yeah. I'm with you on that. I don't want to bash the guy or his playing either. To counter my original opinion toward the positive side, One thing I notice that Mangini does a lot of on this album is sync up with JM with incredible precision.  There are so many subtle places tucked along the way where his kick use is really unique to accomplish this.

With many others like us who've been with the band since I&W, I'm sure many of us have imagined what it would sound like with Portnoy's flare behind the kit, especially when we're (probably) so familiar and intimate with MP's style he had in this band over the years.

[erciccio]

Oh come on, you can't tell me that if you used multiple singers, you wouldn't have Russell Allen be Nafaryus. LaBrie could still be Arhys. I'd get John West or Tommy Karevik for Gabriel.

Am I the only one that isn't blown away by Russell Allen?   I wouldn't want him anywhere near this record.  Certainly he doesn't suck, but it's not at all like this album is SCREAMING for Russell Allen to be on it.

I don't like Symphony X because of
1) Russell Allen
2) Michael Romeo
3) The X in the name
__________________________________________

As concerns TA unpopular (maybe...) opinions, here are a few
a) This is the best sounding album of DT ever, with the appropriate headphones you can really "touch" each instrument
b) The Nafaryus medioeval march during the beginning of A Saviour in the Square (after the nice guitar arpeggio) really kills the mood for me. Up to that moment, I love the album, then it suddenly becomes too cheasy and burlesque
c) I hope James and JM will dance the Nafaruys tango during the live shows
d) I had some Duran Duranish feelings during A Life Let Behind
e) and I heard Brian Adams sing some of the choruses, such as Chosen
f) Faith needs to change the hair color

[Gromit1710]

f) Faith needs to change the hair color

As one reviewer put it that made me actually laugh (because it's true) ".....she's one shade of pink away from a Square Enix lawsuit."

[thosava]

b) The Nafaryus medioeval march during the beginning of A Saviour in the Square (after the nice guitar arpeggio) really kills the mood for me. Up to that moment, I love the album, then it suddenly becomes too cheasy and burlesque

That's a top ten (maybe even five) moment on the album!

[erciccio]

b) The Nafaryus medioeval march during the beginning of A Saviour in the Square (after the nice guitar arpeggio) really kills the mood for me. Up to that moment, I love the album, then it suddenly becomes too cheasy and burlesque

That's a top ten (maybe even five) moment on the album!

Now, here is my problem.

I've got a lovely wife, that was introduced by me to the Dream Theater world a few years ago, and now she likes them.
She's not a great fan of course, she loves mainly the ballads, James La Brie and As I Am ( )..

She really had to face extreme challenges for a "pop" girl like her to accompany me in this world, like listening to 2 hours of Carcass and Slipknot during a Gods of Metal with Dream Theater or listening to me practice the Glass Prison arpeggio for hours, with my guitar out of tune.
She will come with me to the upcoming concert in Milan, but she still has to listen to The Astonishing, with my traditional "introduction".

And I really feel embarassed for that moment, when the march pops-up and I will have to tell her...
"mmm...well...just imagine Jordan dressed up like a medioeval bard playing a trombone in front of the Emperor James and his purple-haired daughter".

That's too much for me.

[RAIN]

OK...this will be fun

1 - Too long
2 - Too many slow songs
3 - Not enough rocking songs
4 - Nomac tracks are worthless
5 - Nothing really new because most of the melodies/riffs we've all heard before every since SDOIT...
6 - Our New World is a rip off of a song I wrote in 2010 (no word of a lie, it hit me like a ton of bricks...especially because there is NO way anyone heard my song)
7 - The song the Astonishing is a terrible song to end with...
8 - I wish the album actually had different singers for different characters

[Train of Naught]

6 - Our New World is a rip off of a song I wrote in 2010 (no word of a lie, it hit me like a ton of bricks...especially because there is NO way anyone heard my song)

This makes no sense

[erciccio]

6 - Our New World is a rip off of a song I wrote in 2010 (no word of a lie, it hit me like a ton of bricks...especially because there is NO way anyone heard my song)

This makes no sense

Yeah.
It's also impossible to be ripped by Our New World without being ripped at least by another song, given that they have the same riff/ melody..

[TJPNET]

b) The Nafaryus medioeval march during the beginning of A Saviour in the Square (after the nice guitar arpeggio) really kills the mood for me. Up to that moment, I love the album, then it suddenly becomes too cheasy and burlesque

I disagree but I can completely understand where you're coming from on that.

[Gromit1710]

6 - Our New World is a rip off of a song I wrote in 2010 (no word of a lie, it hit me like a ton of bricks...especially because there is NO way anyone heard my song)

This makes no sense

Have you forgotten that JP is god. His shredding can melt strings, can play over 4 million notes per second and people die. His guitar has a kill zone mode and his amp knobs control the rotation of the earth and how hot the sun is. 

I'm sure ripping songs directly out of people's heads that have never been heard by anyone is well within his possibility. 

[RAIN]

6 - Our New World is a rip off of a song I wrote in 2010 (no word of a lie, it hit me like a ton of bricks...especially because there is NO way anyone heard my song)

This makes no sense

Of course it makes no sense....hence why it's weird...

[Train of Naught]

6 - Our New World is a rip off of a song I wrote in 2010 (no word of a lie, it hit me like a ton of bricks...especially because there is NO way anyone heard my song)

This makes no sense

Have you forgotten that JP is god. His shredding can melt strings, can play over 4 million notes per second and people die. His guitar has a kill zone mode and his amp knobs control the rotation of the earth and how hot the sun is. 

I'm sure ripping songs directly out of people's heads that have never been heard by anyone is well within his possibility. 

Yea but what I meant to say it makes no sense that the guy is calling it a rip-off. Also, why is it in the "Unpopular opinions" thread?  It is hardly an opinion.

[adamack]

- Too many songs have a buildup/epic finale ending. Just on the first disc alone, Dystopian Overture (which I can understand, being an overture), A Better Life, When Your Time Has Come, Act Of Faythe, Brother Can You Hear Me, Ravenskill, Chosen (before the outro), A Tempting Offer (to a degree), and The Road To Revolution (which makes sense being the disc finale) all end with a similar epic buildup. I LOVE these kinds of finishes, but they were simply overdone for my taste.

- Ravenskill is my favorite song on either disc

- "Remember Bug" and  "How music makes me feel" from A New Beginning make me cringe

- "My Music Player" from Act Of Faythe makes me cringe

- And last but certainly most unpopular: I'm completely torn by this album. I absolutely love the music, but I feel embarrassed listening to it. Not embarrassed by others, just embarrassed to my own self. This is the first time DT has made me feel this way.  This album makes me feel like I have horrible, cheesy taste. My ears love it, but my mind is playing devil's advocate on every listen. I'm NOT trying to bash it by any means....as mentioned I love the music. I just wish it didn't make me feel...hmm, immature maybe? Anyone else feel this way?

[emtee]

I think it's far more mature to be open minded, giving all types of music an honest listen. If you don't like something after multiple
attempts that is one thing but to feel immature for liking beautiful music seems...well you can choose a fitting word 

[bosk1]

I think it's far more mature to be open minded, giving all types of music an honest listen. If you don't like something after multiple
attempts that is one thing but to feel immature for liking beautiful music seems...well you can choose a fitting word 

I agree.  If beautiful, complex music makes one "cringe" or feel "immature," I think that is a strange reaction to have, honestly.

[Gromit1710]

I think it's far more mature to be open minded, giving all types of music an honest listen. If you don't like something after multiple
attempts that is one thing but to feel immature for liking beautiful music seems...well you can choose a fitting word 

I agree.  If beautiful, complex music makes one "cringe" or feel "immature," I think that is a strange reaction to have, honestly.

I think it's far more mature to be open minded, giving all types of music an honest listen. If you don't like something after multiple
attempts that is one thing but to feel immature for liking beautiful music seems...well you can choose a fitting word 

Took me ages as a teenager to get past Track 1 on I&W (PMU). I felt so cheesy and lame sitting there with my long hair, leather jacket over a flannel in Seattle during the Grunge explosion listening to a song that had an honest to god Kenny G sax solo in it and didn't want my friends to find out. So I just bounced between PMU and Metropolis pt 1

Thankfully... I quickly grew out of it. (Or I should say, I quickly grew to hate grunge instead and my current social circle's obsession with it.)

[Kotowboy]

I think it's far more mature to be open minded, giving all types of music an honest listen. If you don't like something after multiple
attempts that is one thing but to feel immature for liking beautiful music seems...well you can choose a fitting word 

I agree.  If beautiful, complex music makes one "cringe" or feel "immature," I think that is a strange reaction to have, honestly.

Oh God we're turning into the Slayer forum.


" Fuck yes. Another album of 14 tr00 bt00tal fuckin tear your face  off METAL anthems. No Ballads for cissies. "


I don't give a flying shit if The Astonishing isn't "HEAVY SHIT D00D". I care about songs.

[Sacul]

I prefer my music beautiful without cheese 

[DragonGuitar]

6 - Our New World is a rip off of a song I wrote in 2010 (no word of a lie, it hit me like a ton of bricks...especially because there is NO way anyone heard my song)

WTF? Yeah, not gonna believe that one. Hopefully you are just trolling. But if there is no way anyone heard your song (anyone would include John Petrucci) then there is no way he could have ripped it off... and even if you were in a successful band and that was a popular song, I still wouldn't believe you. Maybe you could have just come up with a similar idea.

[noxon]

https://vimeo.com/87984609    at 5:51   

[Kotowboy]

I notice he singled out James voice in the things that some fans hate. He didn't say some people hate Petrucci's playing or my playing or Rudess's playing...

[Gromit1710]

I notice he singled out James voice in the things that some fans hate. He didn't say some people hate Petrucci's playing or my playing or Rudess's playing...

Well... Of all the background grips among non fans and fans alike, JLB has always drawn fire for his style and tonality, more than any member of the band aside from Charlie D. Add in a few highly visible bad or less than on point shows (like the whole Once in a Live time CD and pretty much everything else when he was injured, and more recently, the Wacken show) and people will be quick to point it out.

I don't dislike James at all. I find it hard to believe that anyone else could pull of the range of emotions and tones he does and it's that ability that helps give DT their range.

[Rickharris1011]

I'm BUGged by the fact that the first reference to BUG in the lyrics was in A New Beginning.  It should have been in Act of Faythe, when she recalled discovering the music player, too (it was in the long form description)

[Evermind]

I'm BUGged by the fact that the first reference to BUG in the lyrics was in A New Beginning.  It should have been in Act of Faythe, when she recalled discovering the music player, too (it was in the long form description)

Yeah, first time I listened to the album I wasn't aware of the full-fledged descriptions on the site and this bug thing really came out of nowhere.

[Shooters1221]

I think it's far more mature to be open minded, giving all types of music an honest listen. If you don't like something after multiple
attempts that is one thing but to feel immature for liking beautiful music seems...well you can choose a fitting word 

I agree.  If beautiful, complex music makes one "cringe" or feel "immature," I think that is a strange reaction to have, honestly.

Oh God we're turning into the Slayer forum.


" Fuck yes. Another album of 14 tr00 bt00tal fuckin tear your face  off METAL anthems. No Ballads for cissies. "


I don't give a flying shit if The Astonishing isn't "HEAVY SHIT D00D". I care about songs.

I think they were reacting to adamack's original post which was not quoted and had nothing to do with heaviness or metal.

[RoadTrain_of Thought]

I'm BUGged by the fact that the first reference to BUG in the lyrics was in A New Beginning.  It should have been in Act of Faythe, when she recalled discovering the music player, too (it was in the long form description)

Yeah, first time I listened to the album I wasn't aware of the full-fledged descriptions on the site and this bug thing really came out of nowhere.

You should have seen the stream where we were trying to figure out the lyrics. We were all absolutely sure James said "Bug" but couldn't believe it. It is really strange they didn't reference it earlier. It doesn't make any sense without reading the descriptions.

[rumborak]

Probably an unpopular opinion: Anyone else get the impression that certain plot elements were abandoned after being initially considered integral? E.g. the militia serves no purpose at all in the story; somehow I imagine JP starting out with the idea of a militaristic revolution against the ruling class. Similarly, the NOMACS don't really do much in the plot, particularly musically. I get the impression JP initially introduced them as the "enforcers" of the oppression, but when he then came up with the interpersonal story between the characters that took the front seat, and he never ended up using the NOMACS really.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

Probably an unpopular opinion: Anyone else get the impression that certain plot elements were abandoned after being initially considered integral? E.g. the militia serves no purpose at all in the story; somehow I imagine JP starting out with the idea of a militaristic revolution against the ruling class. Similarly, the NOMACS don't really do much in the plot, particularly musically. I get the impression JP initially introduced them as the "enforcers" of the oppression, but when he then came up with the interpersonal story between the characters that took the front seat, and he never ended up using the NOMACS really.

I agree with this, particularly regarding the NOMACs.

[Progmetty]

Probably an unpopular opinion: Anyone else get the impression that certain plot elements were abandoned after being initially considered integral? E.g. the militia serves no purpose at all in the story; somehow I imagine JP starting out with the idea of a militaristic revolution against the ruling class. Similarly, the NOMACS don't really do much in the plot, particularly musically. I get the impression JP initially introduced them as the "enforcers" of the oppression, but when he then came up with the interpersonal story between the characters that took the front seat, and he never ended up using the NOMACS really.

Definitely agree, I think initially he might have even envisioned more violence and a grand epic battle with the militia and Nafaryus forces.

[Train of Naught]

I'm BUGged by the fact that the first reference to BUG in the lyrics was in A New Beginning.  It should have been in Act of Faythe, when she recalled discovering the music player, too (it was in the long form description)

Yeah, first time I listened to the album I wasn't aware of the full-fledged descriptions on the site and this bug thing really came out of nowhere.

You should have seen the stream where we were trying to figure out the lyrics. We were all absolutely sure James said "Bug" but couldn't believe it. It is really strange they didn't reference it earlier. It doesn't make any sense without reading the descriptions.

Hell yea, that stream was awesome  REMEMBER BUG 2016

[ariich]

Probably an unpopular opinion: Anyone else get the impression that certain plot elements were abandoned after being initially considered integral? E.g. the militia serves no purpose at all in the story; somehow I imagine JP starting out with the idea of a militaristic revolution against the ruling class. Similarly, the NOMACS don't really do much in the plot, particularly musically. I get the impression JP initially introduced them as the "enforcers" of the oppression, but when he then came up with the interpersonal story between the characters that took the front seat, and he never ended up using the NOMACS really.

I wouldn't say that's an unpopular opinion, I think that makes perfect sense, though I'm not sure "abandoned" is quite the right word. JP mentioned in an interview that the NOMACs will play a bigger role in an upcoming novelisation, but that for the music they very much focussed on the human relationships story. Could well be something similar with the militia. There's a bigger story to tell, but they had to focus in for the album.

[rumborak]

Is the novelization confirmed?
I think to some degree I fell prey to my own expectations. The pre-release PR was all about the NOMACS, and given how they were said to suppress music in any other form, I was expecting (hoping) for a musical showdown between electronic (JR going all out) and hand-crafted music (JP going all out). JP and JR musically battling it out, that would have been cool I think. Like the end of "Crossroads" with Ralph Macchio and Steve Vai, but cooler.