KISS Discography - My Life As a Kiss Fan

Started by Stadler, April 18, 2016, 08:52:41 AM

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Stadler

Quote from: Sir GuitarCozmo on May 04, 2016, 10:10:42 AM
Three instrumentals are:

Love Theme From Kiss
Fanfare
Escape from the Island

You caught me.  I was thinking of instrumentals the band played on, meaning "Love...", "Escape..." and "Carr Jam 1981".  But you are, of course, correct with "fanfare".   

Sir GuitarCozmo

Lol, I obviously forgot about Carr Jam, aka Breakout.

TAC

Wow Stadler, this is one controversial list. The Alive II Studio side is Top 10?? I'll give you All American Man (Bob Kulick  :metal), Rocket Ride, and Larger Than Life. Rockin' In The USA is filler and Any Way You Want It blows chunks.

I just can's see how these um..5 tunes beat out whole albums with much better stuff on it.

And I guess you have a soft spot for The Elder. That's fine. We all have them and it's your list. On my list it would be Asylum. But Unmasked and The Elder so high, while relegating things like Revenge and Animalize so low is really mind blowing.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: DTwwbwMP on October 10, 2024, 11:26:46 AMDISAPPOINTED.. I hoped for something more along the lines of ADTOE.

BlobVanDam

Imo all of the Alive II bonus tracks are throwaway.

Aside from that, I'm with TAC.

Sir GuitarCozmo

Also, I'm sure it was not intentional, but Jaded Heart by Dokken has a short riff that sounds like Under the Rose:

Under the Rose at 1:08:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOTUPhS7cPA#t=1m08s

Jaded Heart at 2:47:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZvlZrq3tKE#t=2m47s

In other news, the Kiss tribute I was in, Cold Gin, routinely did Rocket Ride and All American Man.

Stadler

Quote from: TAC on May 04, 2016, 10:21:26 AM
Wow Stadler, this is one controversial list. The Alive II Studio side is Top 10?? I'll give you All American Man (Bob Kulick  :metal), Rocket Ride, and Larger Than Life. Rockin' In The USA is filler and Any Way You Want It blows chunks.

I just can's see how these um..5 tunes beat out whole albums with much better stuff on it.

And I guess you have a soft spot for The Elder. That's fine. We all have them and it's your list. On my list it would be Asylum. But Unmasked and The Elder so high, while relegating things like Revenge and Animalize so low is really mind blowing.

I understand your position but I stand by it.  Most of this relative.   I'd much rather listen to "Animalize" and "Revenge" than, say, 95% of other band's best albums.  I love Kiss, always have and I don't see it changing anytime soon.  The other thing is that some of this is... intangible.  I can remember getting the album "...The Elder" with the gatefold, and it was awesome.   I can remember listening to Alive II on this old orange portable record player that sounded like absolute SHIT.  I had to beg my dad to let me make cassettes from his high end (I mean HIGH END) Fisher tube amp system.   I have a soft spot for Lick It Up, because it was the first tour I saw, and on that tour I met the band for the first time.

There are patterns, though.  I much prefer what I call the "New York" sound of Kiss, the heavy, riff-based, Stones-y stuff over the "L.A." sound of Kiss, the more trebly, power chord-driven stuff.   I much prefer Gene's singing; I much prefer Paul's more throat-y, gritty vocals ("Do You Love Me?", "Love Gun") to the more screechy "metal" vocals ("I'll Fight Hell To Hold You").  I have come to have a pretty big hard-on against Peter Criss.  I feel he has disrespected the Kiss name far more than Gene and Paul ever have. 

Finally, I think a lot of people either don't realize or have forgot the mystique around the band back then. There is literally not one current band/circumstance that is even remotely like that.   There was no Twitter, Facebook, internet.   WE DID NOT KNOW WHAT THOSE FOUR GUYS LOOKED LIKE.  I literally could have been standing next to Paul Stanley in the market and wouldn't have known until September of 1983.  They were dangerous, in a way that Alice Cooper and Motley Crue never were.  There was a period where Gene didn't speak; other than the infamous Mike Douglas appearance, Paul did most of the talking in appearances, and ALL the talking on stage.  There was no one like them in '77, but when they toured in '84, they were great - they are a very good band live - but they weren't that different than Van Halen or Scorpions in terms of image and stage presentation, etc. 

Stadler

Quote from: Sir GuitarCozmo on May 04, 2016, 10:25:02 AM
Also, I'm sure it was not intentional, but Jaded Heart by Dokken has a short riff that sounds like Under the Rose:

Under the Rose at 1:08:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOTUPhS7cPA#t=1m08s

Jaded Heart at 2:47:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZvlZrq3tKE#t=2m47s

In other news, the Kiss tribute I was in, Cold Gin, routinely did Rocket Ride and All American Man.

That's not it, but that is driving me crazy trying to think what that riff is.

Sir GuitarCozmo

You mean another that sounds like these two?

Stadler


dtvoices94

I have a problem ranking the KISS albums.  I was born in 1973 and was given a Love Gun 8 Track in 1977 and have been hooked ever since.  The problem for me is ranking anything other than Love Gun at 1.  Objectively, I know it's not their best album but I have such an emotional attachment to it that I can't place it anywhere other than 1.  To this day, I buy anything I see featuring the iconic Love Gun cover.

The women who sing backup on Move On are Maria Vidal, Diana Grasselli, and Miriam Naomi Valle (I have the album right in front of me) but I have no idea of their role in KISStory.
Now Dark Light I know was demoed by Ace as Don't Run (based on Anton Fig's guitar riff) but Lou Reed was brought in to mold the lyrics to fit the Elder storyline.

My original six would look like
Love Gun
Rock And Roll Over
KISS
Dressed To Kill
Destroyer
Hotter Than Hell

Sir GuitarCozmo

Quote from: dtvoices94 on May 04, 2016, 11:58:27 AMThe women who sing backup on Move On are Maria Vidal, Diana Grasselli, and Miriam Naomi Valle (I have the album right in front of me) but I have no idea of their role in KISStory.

Maria Vidal was also the female background vocalist on the Smithereens' hit A Girl Like You.  Still don't know their attachment to Kiss other than their mutual attachment to Desmond Child.


Quote from: dtvoices94 on May 04, 2016, 11:58:27 AMNow Dark Light I know was demoed by Ace as Don't Run (based on Anton Fig's guitar riff) but Lou Reed was brought in to mold the lyrics to fit the Elder storyline.

Anton Fig riff, but Eric Carr on drums?

TAC

Stadler, how on earth did you meet Kiss on the Lick It Up tour? How old were you?
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: DTwwbwMP on October 10, 2024, 11:26:46 AMDISAPPOINTED.. I hoped for something more along the lines of ADTOE.

Lowdz

I don't have any problem with any of these being this high. They are top tier for me.
Pauls solo album could be my favourite KISS album tbh. I love every note of it.

The Elder arrived just as I was getting into KISS (and music in general) and I didn't have any real history with the band to get all upset about. It's not a KISS album as such, that's the problem with it. Also the label jumbling up the tracks gave the story no chance of making sense.

I like side four of Alive II. Even the cover. I mean, it's not essential or anything but I don't turn it off. Alive II is my favourite of the live albums because of the brighter sound, and that foldout cover. It came in at no 18 on my top 50. Pauls solo album was no 8.

Sir GuitarCozmo

Quote from: TAC on May 04, 2016, 12:02:04 PMStadler, how on earth did you meet Kiss on the Lick It Up tour? How old were you?

He was in the mall and was walking by the L'Oreal kiosk and happened to run into them.

TAC

Quote from: Stadler on May 04, 2016, 10:57:13 AM
Quote from: TAC on May 04, 2016, 10:21:26 AM
Wow Stadler, this is one controversial list. The Alive II Studio side is Top 10?? I'll give you All American Man (Bob Kulick  :metal), Rocket Ride, and Larger Than Life. Rockin' In The USA is filler and Any Way You Want It blows chunks.

I just can's see how these um..5 tunes beat out whole albums with much better stuff on it.

And I guess you have a soft spot for The Elder. That's fine. We all have them and it's your list. On my list it would be Asylum. But Unmasked and The Elder so high, while relegating things like Revenge and Animalize so low is really mind blowing.

I understand your position but I stand by it.  Most of this relative.   I'd much rather listen to "Animalize" and "Revenge" than, say, 95% of other band's best albums.  I love Kiss, always have and I don't see it changing anytime soon.  The other thing is that some of this is... intangible.  I can remember getting the album "...The Elder" with the gatefold, and it was awesome.   I can remember listening to Alive II on this old orange portable record player that sounded like absolute SHIT.  I had to beg my dad to let me make cassettes from his high end (I mean HIGH END) Fisher tube amp system.   I have a soft spot for Lick It Up, because it was the first tour I saw, and on that tour I met the band for the first time.

There are patterns, though.  I much prefer what I call the "New York" sound of Kiss, the heavy, riff-based, Stones-y stuff over the "L.A." sound of Kiss, the more trebly, power chord-driven stuff.   I much prefer Gene's singing; I much prefer Paul's more throat-y, gritty vocals ("Do You Love Me?", "Love Gun") to the more screechy "metal" vocals ("I'll Fight Hell To Hold You").  I have come to have a pretty big hard-on against Peter Criss.  I feel he has disrespected the Kiss name far more than Gene and Paul ever have. 

Finally, I think a lot of people either don't realize or have forgot the mystique around the band back then. There is literally not one current band/circumstance that is even remotely like that.   There was no Twitter, Facebook, internet.   WE DID NOT KNOW WHAT THOSE FOUR GUYS LOOKED LIKE.  I literally could have been standing next to Paul Stanley in the market and wouldn't have known until September of 1983.  They were dangerous, in a way that Alice Cooper and Motley Crue never were.  There was a period where Gene didn't speak; other than the infamous Mike Douglas appearance, Paul did most of the talking in appearances, and ALL the talking on stage.  There was no one like them in '77, but when they toured in '84, they were great - they are a very good band live - but they weren't that different than Van Halen or Scorpions in terms of image and stage presentation, etc.

It's all good. I'm a lifelong KISS fan too and it's a treat to discuss them here. I'm also DTF's biggest Alice Cooper fan BTW.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: DTwwbwMP on October 10, 2024, 11:26:46 AMDISAPPOINTED.. I hoped for something more along the lines of ADTOE.

Stadler

Quote from: Sir GuitarCozmo on May 04, 2016, 12:01:43 PM
Maria Vidal was also the female background vocalist on the Smithereens' hit A Girl Like You.  Still don't know their attachment to Kiss other than their mutual attachment to Desmond Child.


I'll give you that.  They are the "Rouge" in "Desmond Child and Rouge", the band he was in during the 70's before he came out (he dated Maria Vidal) and before he became primarily a songwriter.   They were the avenue for him meeting Paul Stanley, which led to "I Was Made For Loving You", and, as they say, Kisstory. 

Stadler

Quote from: Sir GuitarCozmo on May 04, 2016, 12:03:25 PM
Quote from: TAC on May 04, 2016, 12:02:04 PMStadler, how on earth did you meet Kiss on the Lick It Up tour? How old were you?

He was in the mall and was walking by the L'Oreal kiosk and happened to run into them.

Dude!  You're not far off.  Not the LIU tour, but I was in the Charlotte Mall in 2007 and I walked by the Wentworth Gallery.  Paul was in there selling his paintings.  I walked in with my daughter ("Daddy! That's the guy that sings BETH!"), I bought a signed original print of "Karma" and got to hang with him for about 20 minutes.  SUPER cool, and he was wonderful with my daughter.

As for the Lick It Up tour, they were doing a meet and greet at Cutler's Records in New Haven. I grabbed my copy of Killers and the booklets from Alive! and Alive II and went down.  When I got there the line was like 750 people long, but I walked up to the front door, talked to Phil Cutler (the owner) and put my name on the list. But while I was there, I noticed some of the names that were up next (he would yell a number and you had to give the name).  I wasn't walking all the way around the corner, so I kind of hung out a little.   Shortly after, he's yelling "103!"  "103!" "103!"  After three or four yells I figured, you snooze you lose, and I tried to remember the names.  "MATT!" I yelled (DEFINITELY not my name) and he says "Finally! You almost lost your spot.  Go meet the band." and I went in.

The line moved from right to left past Gene, Paul, Vinnie, and Eric, who were all behind a table.  Paul was talking to three REALLY hot chicks so I was sort of "stuck" in front of Gene.  He was so cool; I got to talk with him for about four or five minutes.  He asked me for my booklets and started thumbing through them, making comments.  "That wasn't a real concert; that photo was staged!" (the cover to Alive!). "I remember that; the girl behind the camera kept making me laugh."   Stuff like that.  Finally he took my copy of Killers and said, "Go grab a copy of Lick It Up; the cover is white and better to sign, and Vinnie's on it".  So I did.  He and Vinnie signed LIU, and Paul and Eric signed Killers.  Paul was nice, Eric was awesome, Vinnie was a douche; he was back from the tables pounding tall boys and would only come up to sign and then he'd go back without saying a word. 

For the show, I was in the front row on the side, right in front of Gene. I had a perfect side view of the front row; some wasted chick started throwing clothes.  She threw her bra, her panties and was trying to get her shirt off when her boyfriend stopped her.  She sat down and passed out with her shirt sideways and her skirt hiked up.  I didn't see anything but I'm pretty sure Gene got to see the whole enchilada.  So to speak. 

Stadler

Quote from: TAC on May 04, 2016, 01:55:44 PM

It's all good. I'm a lifelong KISS fan too and it's a treat to discuss them here. I'm also DTF's biggest Alice Cooper fan BTW.

You need to return the favor with Alice.  I want to get into the early stuff and don't know where to start.  I heard the greatest hits from '74 is all remixes or something, so I don't know if that is a good place.  But I hear so much about those early albums produced by Ezrin, with Glenn Buxton, Michael Bruce, Dick Wagner, Steve Hunter...

TAC

The Greatest Hits doesn't even come close to scratching the surface. The original Alice Cooper band is the most underrated American (or any) rock band. Will update this post in the morning!
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: DTwwbwMP on October 10, 2024, 11:26:46 AMDISAPPOINTED.. I hoped for something more along the lines of ADTOE.

jammindude

I've been waiting for this one.

Music From the Elder is my FAVORITE Kiss album.   And personally, I don't think it would have been *quite* the dismal failure it was if they would have released a different lead single. 

I mean, being a metal/Kiss fan and being slightly intrigued by the idea of a concept album...and the "A World Without Heroes" comes on the radio.   As a kid, I would have puked.   "I" would have been a good lead of single.   Heck, even Dark Light or Only You would have been better choices.   Heck, if they wanted to make a statement about being more serious and dramatic, even Under the Rose would have been a MUCH better statement than World Without Heroes. 

I'm not saying any of this would have made the album a success, but I think having that sappy ballad as a lead off single to an album trying to establish credibility (after already appearing "weak" for two albums in a row) was career suicide. 

I like what Gene once said.   "It's a great album, but it's not a great KISS album."    I partially disagree with that second point, but I get what he means.   It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if you had a lead off single that kicked a little ass, and see if people would have at least given it the minimal support it needed for a proper tour. 

Do bootlegs exist for any of the Elder shows they played in Europe?    And another question.   Ace mimed all the promotional stuff they did for Elder, but did he actually play the stuff live? 

TAC

Not sure if the single was the main issue, though I'm sure there's merit to what you say. I remember seeing them on Fridays and they played I, so I knew there was some rockin' tunes on it, but at that point, KISS kind of jumped the shark, no. I just don't think anyone took them seriously.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: DTwwbwMP on October 10, 2024, 11:26:46 AMDISAPPOINTED.. I hoped for something more along the lines of ADTOE.

King Postwhore

Quote from: TAC on May 05, 2016, 04:51:11 AM
Not sure if the single was the main issue, though I'm sure there's merit to what you say. I remember seeing them on Fridays and they played I, so I knew there was some rockin' tunes on it, but at that point, KISS kind of jumped the shark, no. I just don't think anyone took them seriously.

It's an album over the year I have come to appreciate a lot more.  It's well written, well crafted but not the right album at the time when their popularity was waning.  They needed to come out balls a' swinging.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Sir GuitarCozmo

Has anyone ever compared the original version vs. the 1997 remastered track order?  I'm curious if it feels any different, i.e. flows better with the reordered track listing.  It seems like a better order, from the look of it.

King Postwhore

Quote from: Sir GuitarCozmo on May 05, 2016, 05:23:14 AM
Has anyone ever compared the original version vs. the 1997 remastered track order?  I'm curious if it feels any different, i.e. flows better with the reordered track listing.  It seems like a better order, from the look of it.

You know.  The remastered threw me off because I listened to the original so much.  I should give it a shot again.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

jammindude

See, and I'm just the opposite because I didn't discover the album until the the '97 remaster.   So I've never actually heard the original running order.   (though it's my understanding that the Remaster order was the original order they were working with in the studio...the record execs changed things around before they went to pressing)

TAC

Quote from: Stadler on May 04, 2016, 05:55:45 PM
You need to return the favor with Alice.  I want to get into the early stuff and don't know where to start.  I heard the greatest hits from '74 is all remixes or something, so I don't know if that is a good place.  But I hear so much about those early albums produced by Ezrin, with Glenn Buxton, Michael Bruce, Dick Wagner, Steve Hunter...

Pretty sure this post won't derail the thread, so I hope you don't mind. I don't think anyone else is going to care. :lol

As I said, the original Alice band was incredible. So let me start:

Their first two albums, Pretties For You ('69) and Easy Action ('70) were released on Zappa's label and they are for completests only. Not much going on here and it comes off like a lot of noise. I can find some good in them, but I'm a hardcore Alice fan. These are completely avoidable.

Shep Gordon (their manager) then takes the band to see Jack Richardson in Toronto, who is a popular producer at the time. Richardson asks one of his young engineers (Ezrin) to basically throw them out. But Ezrin agrees to go see them live in New York, and they do a record deal backstage after the show.

Love It To Death 1971- This is where Ezrin really pulls apart the mess that is Alice Cooper and rebuilds it into something viable. Love It To Death is still a little on the raw side but it's more than listenable. It has a certain charm to it for sure. I'm Eighteen and Is It My Body are represented on the Greatest Hits, but the albums tour de force is The Ballad Of Dwight Fry, still to this day is my favorite Alice track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfqrZvKI_1g

Killer 1971-To me this and School's Out are the "must haves" of the early stuff. Killer is simply incredible. It is an epic filled classic off set with some of his best shorter songs. You'll recognize Under My Wheels, Be My Lover, and Desperado from the Greatest Hits but this album's greatness lies in the following three tracks;
Halo Of Flies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGOD1-NtxH8
I would venture to call this early Progressive Metal!

Dead Babies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vibuSW89MH8
A song against child neglect!

Killer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCdr0y3cccw&index=5&list=PLu0G59v5yOuZrPfhp36SfQgeOb3vF49H_
So totally haunting and ending with the sound of death!

School's Out1972-Believe it or not, I think only the title track is represented on the Greatest Hits, which is a travesty because musically this album is amazing. This is when they started with elaborate packaging. The fold out desk, the flammable panties!
Musically this was another ahead of its time album. Just check out:
My Stars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0DRD31c6Nk
Incredible!

Blue Turk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgzoYzZiI7w
One of my favorites

Billion Dollar Babies 1973- I consider B$B much weaker than the previous two album, but it became their most popular. They had a huge arena tour which was documented on the live DVD Good To See You Again. Divisions in the band also started about this time as Alice himself started to become "the" star. Elected, B$B, No More Mr. Nice Guy are all on the Greatest Hits.
Not going to bother linking but the best tracks are I Love The Dead and Generation Landslide

Muscle Of Love 1973-Lots of divisiveness in the band here. Ezrin doesn't produce. The band tries to wrestle away some power from Alice, so this album is more of a collection of songs rather than a loosely themed theatrical album. This album is quite uneven, but I like a lot of it. Only Teenage Lament would make the Greatest Hits.
But there are some cool songs, like The Man With The Golden Gun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R500VKA9-Zo which was beat out at the last minute for the Bond film.

At this point, the band kind of had it and they and Alice, though all sides are murky on it, basically split in two and Alice goes on to his solo career.

Welcome To My Nightmare 1975 - He reunites with Ezrin. What can I say, this album made Alice a full blown star. The whole thing is amazing top to bottom. Such a great band! Hunter/Wagner on guitar, Prakash John on Bass and Whitey Glan on drums. Live they were a beast of a band. Even Tony Levin does some session work on this and Go To Hell. Not even sure what to link, but this is a "must have"!

Alice Cooper Goes To Hell 1976- The follow up to WTMN. Drums are handled by session drummer Alan Shwartzberg, who you'll recognize as doing sessions for Kiss/the Solo Albums. Personally, I love this album. Has a similar vibe to WTMN. But this is where the Alice train really breaks down. He doesn't tour Goes To Hell.

He will follow these up with Lace And Whiskey ('77) and From The Inside ('78) which is itself an amazing album. Recorded after his stint in an institution it's quite entertaining.

He then disappears for a couple years rehabbing off and on. He would record 4 more albums from '80-'83, but they are alcohol and drug induced albums that are quite obscure. Flush The Fashion, Special Forces, Da Da (an Ezrin/Dick Wagner album basically) and Zipper Catches Skin. Alice would go off at this point and cure himself and reemerge in 1986 with Constrictor and the amazing Nightmare Returns tour. The rest is history!

Must haves:
Killer
School's Out
Welcome To My Nightmare
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: DTwwbwMP on October 10, 2024, 11:26:46 AMDISAPPOINTED.. I hoped for something more along the lines of ADTOE.

TAC

Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: DTwwbwMP on October 10, 2024, 11:26:46 AMDISAPPOINTED.. I hoped for something more along the lines of ADTOE.

DragonAttack

Will agree with TAC's Alice Cooper comments.  Best to take your time, and listen to them in their chronological order, and headphones if possible.  As much as the naysayers put down the 'simplicity' of the music, they provided a lot of catchy hooks amidst much of the bizarre.  And, Neal Smith's drumming is steady, and all over the place with some great fills that one picks up on with repeated listens.  Alice watched a ton of television and movies, and you can sense the show tune influence in many instrumentals.  Bob Ezrin somehow works in piano and trumpets and tubas and orchestras with little notice.

Dangerous?  She ate chickens on stage!!!  :D (https://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk/%5Econtent.php?id=events/chicken.php).  Wrote about dead babies, had the python, the guillotine, the gallows, wore make up and dresses.  Got his name from a Ouiji board from a dead witch. He worshipped the devil!  He was corrupting America's youth! 

ABC's 'In Concert' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIr8vJY-6Ig)  When this aired, 4 of the 5 affiliates in Lower Michigan didn't carry it.  Fortunately, my little TV was able to receive it as a grainy black and white feed.  Major markets such as St. Louis didn't show it. 
(the fun video of 'Elected' starts around 18:30)

He is why a lot of us 'got it' when we read about, and then watched KISS on 'The Midnight Special' for the first time.  Being called 'the sons of Alice' might have been a slam by some as being copycats, but so what?  It worked.
Quote from: frogprog on January 05, 2023, 05:45:48 PM...going along with Dragon Attack's Queen discography thread has been like taking a free class in Queen knowledge. Where else are you gonna find info like that?!
QUEEN DISCOGRAPHY      "www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php/topic,57201.0.html"

Stadler

Quote from: Sir GuitarCozmo on May 05, 2016, 05:23:14 AM
Has anyone ever compared the original version vs. the 1997 remastered track order?  I'm curious if it feels any different, i.e. flows better with the reordered track listing.  It seems like a better order, from the look of it.

Well, I have, though I haven't heard the LP listing in a while.  For a short time I had the LP order on my iPod, and I've since ditched it in favor of the CD version.

Here's the thing, though:  in typical Kiss fashion, all is not what it seems.  The OFFICIAL story is that the "Japanese version" is the intended order, and the US version is a shuffling in order to get the "singles" as the first song on each album side (common in the day).  On the Japanese version (again, the "intended" order) "Just A Boy" goes into "Odyssey" and "Dark Light" is the first song on Side 2.   On the US version, the "commercial" version, "Just A Boy" goes into "Dark Light" and "Odyssey" buried in the middle of side 2.  BUT... if you listen close to "Just A Boy", the initial notes of "Dark Light" can be heard in the fade, seeming to indicate that "Just A Boy" was mixed with the intention of the next song being "Dark Light".    So who friggin' knows.

I think the album flows a shade better in the CD/Japanese version, and certainly if you follow the story (which I don't) it makes slightly more sense in the CD version. 

Stadler

Quote from: jammindude on May 04, 2016, 07:48:35 PM
Do bootlegs exist for any of the Elder shows they played in Europe?    And another question.   Ace mimed all the promotional stuff they did for Elder, but did he actually play the stuff live?

It's my understanding that there were only three appearances made in support of "The Elder", one clearly lip-synched ("I", and Ace blew it off, so they were a trio) and two allegedly played live - an appearance on "Friday's" ("A World Without Heroes", "I", and "The Oath") and an appearance on Solid Gold ("AWWH" and "I").   Later dates in '82 were in support of Creatures, and had Vinnie on guitar (and in makeup).  They didn't play any Elder material on that tour.

The Friday's appearance is on the Kissology set; I'll watch it tonight and tell you if Ace was really playing, but in theory anyway, he only played three songs, the first two twice, and the last only once. 

Stadler

Quote from: DragonAttack on May 05, 2016, 06:39:57 AM
Will agree with TAC's Alice Cooper comments.  Best to take your time, and listen to them in their chronological order, and headphones if possible.  As much as the naysayers put down the 'simplicity' of the music, they provided a lot of catchy hooks amidst much of the bizarre.  And, Neal Smith's drumming is steady, and all over the place with some great fills that one picks up on with repeated listens.  Alice watched a ton of television and movies, and you can sense the show tune influence in many instrumentals.  Bob Ezrin somehow works in piano and trumpets and tubas and orchestras with little notice.

I've heard this about Alice, and why I'm interested to get acquainted with the material:  that it SOUNDS simple, but when you dig in there was a LOT of complexity and depth to the material.  I've referenced the Slash interview on Stern here, and that's the most recent place I've heard this.   Both Slash and Stern were raving about early Alice.

Sir GuitarCozmo

Later on, they've apparently done full performances of The Oath on a couple Kiss Kruises.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6sbALlzUzQ

When the song starts, the crowd absolutely loses their shit.

Stadler

Coz, not to put you on the spot, but just curious... what material did you play in Cold Gin?  Can you play (meaning, do you know it, not whether you are technically capable) anything in the catalogue or just certain eras?   Depending on your answer to that last question, what's the hardest thing in the catalogue for you to play? The easiest (though that's kind of a dumb question)?

Prog Snob

I didn't appreciate The Elder until I expanded my musical tastes. As someone who preferred the traditional KISS albums of the 70s, The Elder was a departure from that and left me disappointed. Now, I think it's a really intriguing and ballsy venture.

Sir GuitarCozmo

Quote from: Stadler on May 05, 2016, 07:46:19 AMCoz, not to put you on the spot, but just curious... what material did you play in Cold Gin?  Can you play (meaning, do you know it, not whether you are technically capable) anything in the catalogue or just certain eras?   Depending on your answer to that last question, what's the hardest thing in the catalogue for you to play? The easiest (though that's kind of a dumb question)?

We played your standard makeup era Kiss stuff, with a few oddballs thrown in here and there (the aforementioned Rocket Ride and All American Man, as well as Rip It Out, Love Her All I Can, Strange Ways, and War Machine).  Every once in a great while we did Lick It Up, but that was the only non-makeup era song we ever did (although I remember a sound check at a Kiss Convention in King of Prussia, we went through a portion of "Something Moved" for shits and giggles).  I haven't really gone out of my way to learn much post-makeup stuff, but I know a few (Lick It Up, Forever, Domino).  There are probably a handful that I've figured out riffs to just screwing around getting a line check before gigs.  Now, give me a specific Kiss song and 10-15 minutes and I'll pretty much play it back for you.  I may not nail the solo, but I'll have the spirit of it, at the very least.

One of the harder things I ever had to play is the solo to Makin' Love.  That triplet figure that Ace opens the solo with is fucking dizzying.  Not to mention that the rest of the solo is full-on high octane Ace at his finest.  It's my number one favorite solo from Ace.  In the grand scheme of things, I've played much harder solos for other songs (Bark at the Moon, for example), but ML is definitely a tougher one.  Easy ones?  Not gonna lie, it's most of them.  :lol

Here's a video from a Kiss Convention we did in Cleveland.  Eric Singer played four songs with us.  Parasite was one of them.  I'd been playing Kiss songs for a long time, but I'd only been in the tribute band for 3 months, so I hadn't come close to getting Ace's moves or makeup quite right yet.  Also, this wasn't the best lineup of the band, that came later on that year/early '98.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTD_QBO2iTc

There's a shit ton more footage I have from my Kiss tribute years, but my ex has it all, as she's the one who shot the videos.  Being the abysmal excuse for a human that she is, the likelihood that I'll ever get any of it is next to zero.