Marvel's Movie/TV Universe v2 (SPOILERS)

[Nick]

Old one here: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=24999.0

EDIT to include future release dates, because I'm tired of always having to look them up:

Thor: Ragnarok - November 3, 2017
Black Panther - February 16, 2018
Avengers: Infinity War - May 4, 2018
Ant Man and the Wasp - July 6, 2018
Captain Marvel - March 8, 2019
Avengers: Infinity War – Part 2 - May 3, 2019
untitled Spider Man film - July 5, 2019
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 - tbd

[kaos2900]

Finally watched Civil War over the weekend. Another great Marvel movie. It really is impressive that they can continue to make these movies so good with the amount of characters in them.

[soupytwist]

Really enjoyed the Spiderman Cameo in Civil War (although it's a bigger part than a Cameo).   As much as I enjoyed the Sam Raimi Trilogy I always felt they never quite got Spidey right.   The two Amazing Spiderman films were dreadful thankfully dreadful enough for Sony to ditch the brand and allow Spidey to go back to where he belongs - really looking forward to Homecoming now.

Mixed feeling about Doc Strange.  Perfect casting for the lead role, but the trailer left me a bit cold.

[BlackInk]

So Agents of Shield season 4 started this week, anyone seen it yet?

I thought it was a fine episode. I was a bit worried about Ghost Rider coming on, since my image of him is so far away from the rest of the MCU. But, although that car flip thing was a bit silly, I think they handled him well and set up something that could be cool.

[Adami]

So Agents of Shield season 4 started this week, anyone seen it yet?

I thought it was a fine episode. I was a bit worried about Ghost Rider coming on, since my image of him is so far away from the rest of the MCU. But, although that car flip thing was a bit silly, I think they handled him well and set up something that could be cool.

.

It was.....okay. And I say that as a huge fan of the show. Lots of set up and pretty much nothing else. There was one cool subtle moment though.

**spoilers**

When ghost rider defeats daisy and she says to kill her, he looks in her eyes and walks away because she's not worth killing and therefore not worth his attention.

Still not a huge fan of this version of the rider. I stopped reading his comics as Robby pretty early one out of boredom. Wish they stuck with classic rider. Ah well.

[Kotowboy]

Captain America : Civil War is on PS4 to rent.

I fancy watching it later. How does it compare to The Winter Soldier ?

[BlackInk]

I think it's better.

[hefdaddy42]

I think it's better.

I agree, but it's not a TON better.  Winter Soldier is fantastic.

[Zantera]

Winter Soldier is definitely better but Civil War was good too.

[Cyclopssss]

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. got a good season start, I think.

[hefdaddy42]

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. got a good season start, I think.

I agree.

[axeman90210]

Yeah, definitely enjoyed the Shield premiere.

[hefdaddy42]

And in new that I doubt very many people found surprising, Benedict Cumberbatch kind of confirmed that Dr. Strange would be appearing in Avengers: Infinity War.

[Kotowboy]

I think i've seen TWO MCU films at the cinema - Ant Man and Avengers Assemble.

But Dr. Strange looks great. I'll go see that.

[Adami]

I just hope Strange has a plot that matches the creativity of the visuals.

Origin stories, in the MCU, tend to follow the formula of "Guy gets powers, fights bad version of guy with the same powers....wins". I hope this isn't just that again.

[Kotowboy]

I just hope Strange has a plot that matches the creativity of the visuals.

Origin stories, in the MCU, tend to follow the formula of "Guy gets powers, fights bad version of guy with the same powers....wins". I hope this isn't just that again.

Yeah and Iron Man 2 was basically that and they forgot the entire plot. But they also forgot the end battle too.

Mickey Rourke showed up for 5 mins and was defeated almost instantly.

[King Postwhore]

I love Mads Mikkelsen as an actor so I'm looking forward to him playing the lead bad guy.

[aurorablind]

Can't wait for Dr.Strange!
However, my expectations aren't huge when it comes to the villain.
Marvel makes great movies, and have been on a roll lately. Their villains however, are generic as hell. They work for the plot, but are overall very forgettable.
Mads Mikkelsen is great though, so it might be good!

Villains in the MCU:

Great: Loki, Winter Soldier
Ok: Ultron, Obadiah Stane, Red Skull, Zemo
Forgettable: Malekith, Yellowjacket, Abomination, Ronan, Killian, Alexander Pierce
Stupid: The fake Mandarin, Whiplash (where's my burd)

The Marvel Tv-shows are doing it right though! Fisk and Killgrave are right next to Loki in terms of awesomeness!

[bosk1]

Their villains however, are generic as hell.

Despite that a lot of people say this, I don't see it.  While some of their villains haven't been great, they've all been at minimum pretty good.  I don't get what the criticism is.

[hefdaddy42]

The criticism is that they are one-dimensional and have no depth.  "I am evil, therefore I must oppose the protagonist!"  "Hey, we need a bad guy - he doesn't need motivation, he just needs to be bad!" *fight*

Marvel certainly gets good actors to portray their villains, which helps to mask the problem somewhat.

And some of it has to do with how long the actors have to work with the roles.  I don't think it is any coincidence that Marvel's best villains, far and away, have been Loki, Wilson Fisk, and Kilgrave, the ones that have had the most screen time.

[bosk1]

Yes, that is what is commonly said.  But given that they aren't one dimensional and do have depth and motivation, I don't get the criticism.  It just doesn't hold much water for me. 

[hefdaddy42]

Sorry you don't get it, but the reason it is commonly said is that a lot of people commonly DO get it.  It's not like it's the cool thing to say or anything.

If it doesn't bother you, that's fine; it doesn't bother me all that much, but I wish they would put a little more effort into their antagonists.

[bosk1]

It doesn't bother me for the same reason I don't get people saying it:  there simply isn't anything to be bothered about.  The antagonists in their movies range from great to not bad.  It's not that it's a complicated argument that I can't grasp.  It's a faulty argument that I can't grasp people in their right mind even making.

[Kotowboy]

Does anyone else really care about the continuity of the MCU ?

I watch them sporadically and not in any order and the through lines don't really get lost on me. I watch them as their own self contained movie.

[bosk1]

Does anyone else really care about the continuity of the MCU ?

Yes.  They (intentionally) build upon each other quite nicely, and there really is a logical flow and continuity to the overall storyline that adds to the overall experience of watching any single film.

[Adami]

See, villains like Loki, Zemo, Ultron, Obadiah, and Winter Soldier range from good to great.

Villains like Justin Hammer, Mickey Rourke, Red Skull, Abomination, and Darren Cross are....not bad, but not good.

While Killian, Maliketh and Ronin are all terrible.

The problem for someone like me is that "not bad" isn't good enough. So that's most of the villains falling below the acceptable line.

[hefdaddy42]

It doesn't bother me for the same reason I don't get people saying it:  there simply isn't anything to be bothered about.  The antagonists in their movies range from great to not bad.  It's not that it's a complicated argument that I can't grasp.  It's a faulty argument that I can't grasp people in their right mind even making.

And yet it's a common (although minor) criticism.  But whatever.

*shrugs and points to Malekith*

[Adami]

Does anyone else really care about the continuity of the MCU ?

I watch them sporadically and not in any order and the through lines don't really get lost on me. I watch them as their own self contained movie.

Yes. The character development of the characters from Iron Man to Cap 3 is really something and the movies lack a level of depth if you don't have it.

It's like a TV show. It's hard to watch episodes 3 6 and 8 of Game of Thrones and  have a full appreciation while ignoring the other episodes.

[BlackInk]

Darren Cross is my least favorite of their villains so far. Just terrible.

And I care very much about the continuity of the MCU. I watch it all in order and find it very fun to keep up with all the referenses and cross over stuff. It's part of what makes the MCU so fun to invest time in.

[Adami]

Wasn't super impressed with the first episode of the season of Agents, some cool moments, but mostly just a ton of set up. Second episode was pretty awesome though, very curious where it's all going.

[soupytwist]

Yeah if your picking holes in this Marvel Universe then the Villains have generally been an afterthought.  The other issue is lack of character deaths so far, there is rumours around that Quicksilver will be returning at some point - and he's the only one that's died so far.  I really think they missed a trick by not killing of War Machine in Civil War - It would have given the Airport scene/battle a proper payoff.

[aurorablind]

I'm not saying that the villains ruin the movie. The movies are awesome! But as soupytwist says. They feel like an afterthought at times.
I am one of the few who actually think Zemo worked pretty well in Civil War. His motivations where clear, even though his plan worked out a bit to well..but hey! It's a comic book movie!
There will be some pretty sweet villains the coming years. Ragnarok in Thor 3. Vulture and The Shocker in Spider Man: Homecoming. Then you have Thanos in Infinity War, and Man-Ape was just confirmed for the Black Panther movie.

I agree about the lack of deaths. Even though I like War Machine, his character is kind of expendable, and his death would have made Civil War a bit more interesting (even though I love that movie to death).
Infinity War will probably kill of one or two characters. Vision is powered by an Infinity Stone...just sayin'..

[hefdaddy42]

The Russo brothers said they actually considered killing off several different characters in Civil War, but they felt that would make the focal point of the movie the death of a well-known character, rather than the divide between Tony and Steve.  They didn't want anything else to overshadow that.

[BlackInk]

I don't think War Machine dying would overshadow that, I think it would have strengthen it.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't think War Machine dying would overshadow that, I think it would have strengthen it.

I don't know.  I think it would have been a token death, a death for the sake of having someone die.  He's not an important enough character that his death would be THAT meaningful, so it would be a waste of using a death as a plot device IMO.

On the other hand, a more important character dying would, as the Russo brothers said, have been a distraction from the point of the film.

So I agree with their decision.