Marvel's Movie/TV Universe v2 (SPOILERS)

[bosk1]

"Victory lap" basically means "celebration after having obtained victory."  It doesn't (or shouldn't) have any negative connotations, other than perhaps a tad bit of gloating over said victory. 

[Orbert]

In that case, I'm not sure how the expression works with this show.  I thought they'd been on the edge of cancellation for years, and finally got word that this is the final season.  So what is the "victory" they're celebrating?  That they actually managed to not get cancelled for seven years?  Actually, I guess that is something.

[bosk1]

Umm...the victory is the celebration of 7 awesome seasons. 

[Orbert]

Okay, I get it now.

[bosk1]

Setting your episode of Agents of SHIELD in 1982 and calling it "The Totally Excellent Adventures Of Mack And The D" pretty much ensures hilarity and cheese.  The last episode was not as good as some of the prior ones, but it was still very fun.

[Adami]

Setting your episode of Agents of SHIELD in 1982 and calling it "The Totally Excellent Adventures Of Mack And The D" pretty much ensures hilarity and cheese.  The last episode was not as good as some of the prior ones, but it was still very fun.

I'm really enjoying AoS this season, but yea, they don't seem to be going as far as they could.

It doesn't help that I'm also watching season 2 of Doom Patrol and that show is SO insane that AoS looks a bit like a mayo on white bread sandwich next to it.

[bosk1]

Last night's episode was significantly less fun.  Still good, and a nice throwback to...whichever season that was.    Just not as fun.  Pretty menacing and foreboding, actually.  And had a very X-Men vs. Brotherhood of Evil Mutants vibe.

[Adami]

Yea, I actually liked it. I don't think they have to be that fun all the time. They just need the right balance and I think this was a good more serious episode.

I know they said they were going to be a bigger part of the MCU this season, but as of yet I haven't seen any hints of it. Also where the hell is Fitz? It's halfway over and no Fitz.

[gzarruk]

I just started watching the current season, so I'm a few episodes behind. It's really good, to me, so far; but it's been such a long time since the previous season that I just completely forgot everything that happened at the season finale

And I feel the same way as Adami about Fitz, he's one of my favorite characters of the show, and he's the one who seems to be neglected the most on the last few seasons (remember when he wasn't taken to the future and they had to make a big explanation about why that didn't happen?). I know this usually means the actor has some sort of scheduling conflict and can't commit to shooting the whole season (which is what happened for the example I just used), but really hope it's that and not them writing him out for most of the season just to come up with some kind of big twist or something.

[bosk1]

They say where he is--you just haven't gotten to it yet.

[gzarruk]

They say where he is--you just haven't gotten to it yet.

Guess I'll have to watch one or two episodes more today, then

[jammindude]

Believe it or not, we are almost completely caught up on our giant MCU viewing. We did both Infinity War and Endgame in their proper time, but then we got so involved with AOS that we skipped Spiderman Far From Home and went straight into season six and now season seven.

Love the introduction screens reflecting the dated timeline. At times it has felt a little bit on the cheesy side, but I agree with the earlier assessment that it just feels like a victory lap. I think they're nailing the perfect balance of cheese and decent story. I hope it ends a little more on a strong point. Tying things up in something that felt like too much of a nice little package might feel anti-climactic.

What  I think would be cool is if they did something similar to what Alien Nation did back in the day. Wrap up the series...but create the possibility of future "movie events" (once the rights revert back to D+)

[jammindude]

The seven year journey is over and NO ONE has said a peep???

Technically I've still got 15 minutes left and I'm at the final commercial break, but we appear to be heading to "epilogue mode"

I love the way they wrapped it up. Excellent writing and a very worthy ending to a fantastic series. I had one minor issue that I'll elaborate on later...but it was easily overlooked.

[jingle.boy]

Jingle.son and I will be watching it tonight.

[Adami]

The seven year journey is over and NO ONE has said a peep???

Technically I've still got 15 minutes left and I'm at the final commercial break, but we appear to be heading to "epilogue mode"

I love the way they wrapped it up. Excellent writing and a very worthy ending to a fantastic series. I had one minor issue that I'll elaborate on later...but it was easily overlooked.

I watch it the next day on Hulu. Patience young one.

[jingle.boy]

Totally predictable outcome, but it was a nice way to wrap it all up - but too much of it tied back to the S6 finale, which I forgot so much about since it was so long ago.  I really had trouble with the mental gymnastics required to connect all the dots that were laid out.  Touching/heartwarming moment with the discovery of Alya.

Now, all the possibilities of spin-offs.  I'll bet none of them ever happen though.

[Adami]

Yea. I'm a bit torn on it.

It was mostly really good, but some meh. I also just didn't really connect with the ending. It made perfect sense but I didn't feel the emotional stuff they wanted me to feel, at least not all of it. I also didn't connect with Nathaniel as a villain, as he just seemed so generic and bland.

And what Jingle said is true, it relied a lot on season 6, which was over a year ago. It felt like this was meant to be binged, but wasn't released in that format.

One day, maybe, I'll binge the whole 7 seasons and maybe I'll connect with it a bit more.

But overall? Good run. Good ending, just a B instead of an A.

[jingle.boy]

It was mostly really good, but some meh. I also just didn't really connect with the ending. It made perfect sense but I didn't feel the emotional stuff they wanted me to feel, at least not all of it. I also didn't connect with Nathaniel as a villain, as he just seemed so generic and bland.

Agreed 100%.  I don't know if it was the character, or the actor's portrayal of the character, but I thought he was awful.  I thought Garrett was pretty bad too.

[bosk1]

^Yeah, overall, I think I agree with that, even if I may disagree with some of the specifics.  The last line is spot on for me:  overall, good run.  Good ending, just a B instead of an A.

For me, the first part of the season was definitely in the "A" range.  It was lighthearted and fun, which felt right for this series.  It was poking fun at pretty much everything a lot of us have grown up with, and that was great.  Then it started to get heavy, and dark, and complex.  And that's all fine.  But the combination of those factors felt like a lot of the punches they were throwing glanced off a bit instead of landing solidly.  And even going into epilogue mode...it felt entirely appropriate, and pretty well done, but as Adami said, I didn't quite feel all of the emotions, or at least not as deeply, as they were going for.  I think some of that may simply be the emotional place that a lot of us are in right now.  When they were writing, filming, and editing this, they couldn't really have predicted that the national collective psyche would be where it is now.  But some of it is just the writing.  I mean, just because we are all collectively feeling a bit off doesn't mean things can't hit us hard--I watched Hamilton for the first time a couple of weeks ago, and have rewatched it a couple of times since, and there are multiple things in that, including the ending, that hit me like a ton of bricks EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

Still, just to reiterate, I'm not unhappy with the finale at all.  This season was great overall, and I kind of felt like the first half was SO good that it kind of had to be a bit of a letdown at the end.   

[jingle.boy]

And what Jingle said is true, it relied a lot on season 6, which was over a year ago. It felt like this was meant to be binged, but wasn't released in that format.

One day, maybe, I'll binge the whole 7 seasons and maybe I'll connect with it a bit more.

I think a re-watch of the S6 finale and the S7 finale would be sufficient.

[bosk1]

I don't remember why, but circumstances at the time the S6 finale came out dictated that I was sort of rushed and wasn't all there mentally, so I wasn't able to completely focus and take it in.  Similar situation with this one.  But from listening to you guys, I think the writing was also such that those endings were pretty convolluted and not easy to take in and emotionally connect with anyway.

But that said, yeah, I think a rewatch of both, back to back, would be helpful.

[Orbert]

I watched it this morning.  It was pretty good.  I agree that it didn't quite have the emotional punch it seemed like they were going for, with all the "family" and "what we're doing all this for" both literally and figuratively, but it did what it needed to do.  Nice special effects.  You could tell they saved up some of the budget for these two hours.  We started the season was some nice location scenes in different time periods, then we spent a few episodes inside the Lighthouse and holed up in the Zephyr a lot.  But we got the big fancy ending.  Fitz is back, Jemma's memory is back, they have a daughter, Zeke's existence is (insured? possible now?) and everybody's different, but everybody's the same.

I save a lot of episodes and watch them a second time, to catch all the stuff that got past me the first time, but I've found that it doesn't help me as much as the various discussion boards actually talking about the episodes.  People point out things and/or explain things that I didn't get, and vice versa.

One thing everyone seems to agree on is that Nathaniel, Kora, and Sibyl were all boring as fuck, and that brought down this season overall.  Garrett wasn't much better.  I've gotten to really like most of the main characters, but this show always had trouble getting consistently good bad guys, and this season was no different.  And that's sad because you want the wrap-up of the entire series to be something really amazing, and it was just "pretty good".  But hey, nowadays I'll take "pretty good".

Overall, the series challenged me a few times, surprised me a few times, and generally kept my interest.  My wife and kids all bailed on it years ago, but I stuck with it, and I'm glad I did.  I don't actually watch a lot of TV, so once I get into a show, I kinda want to stick with it, having already invested some time in it.  I don't want to bail on a show and then find out later that it got really good after I'd stopped watching.  That happened with Deep Space Nine, which I still want to watch again, but if I do that, I'd want to start from the beginning again, and it's that first season that really kinda bored me and made me bail in the first place.  Life's a bitch, eh?

[Adami]

I won't blame the kid playing Nathaniel. He actually had some good charisma. There was just nothing to the character. He wanted power and to rule...........that's about it. They didn't give him any other motive or depth or anything.

And the problem with cold calculating robot villains is that you can't connect with them at all. Sometimes that works when used right, like the Borg, but they made her VERY human which missed the point. I also don't even remember why the robots were trying to do what they did.

[Orbert]

I think the Chronicoms somehow decided that Earth was a good planet for them to take over, and make it Chronos II or whatever the new home planet would be called.  Sibyl wasn't technically their leader, but she could see all the possible futures and give them odds on anything happening, so they did what she said.  Something like that.  Kinda like they waffled just a bit with the Borg Queen.  They asked her if she's the leader, and she says she brings order to chaos.  Okay, so the leader, right?

But as with all time-travel stories, there are potential holes or contradictions, whatever you want to call them.  Like, if the Chronicoms could travel through time, why not go back to their original home planet, before it was destroyed?

[hefdaddy42]

My youngest and I wound up missing most of the season as it aired, so we actually watched the final 8 episodes in the last 2 days. Seen that way, it was very enjoyable, and easily our favorite season of the show. I thought it was a fitting sendoff to the characters we have come to love. We both teared up multiple times during those episodes.

[ZirconBlue]

I'm happy.  The season was FUN, unlike most of the last 2, and the ending was somewhat bittersweet, but it felt fitting. 

[Orbert]

Did we ever find out what the deal was with Sarge?  Why was he basically a clone of Coulson, with his DNA and obviously the same person but having lived a completely different life?  If they ever explained that, I don't remember.

[Adami]

Did we ever find out what the deal was with Sarge?  Why was he basically a clone of Coulson, with his DNA and obviously the same person but having lived a completely different life?  If they ever explained that, I don't remember.

They did but I'm forgetting the details.

[jingle.boy]

Did we ever find out what the deal was with Sarge?  Why was he basically a clone of Coulson, with his DNA and obviously the same person but having lived a completely different life?  If they ever explained that, I don't remember.

They did but I'm forgetting the details.

Google is your friend.

[Adami]

Did we ever find out what the deal was with Sarge?  Why was he basically a clone of Coulson, with his DNA and obviously the same person but having lived a completely different life?  If they ever explained that, I don't remember.

They did but I'm forgetting the details.

Google is your friend.

Honestly I would if I cared haha. I love the show but I'm fine not remembering that stuff.

[jingle.boy]

Did we ever find out what the deal was with Sarge?  Why was he basically a clone of Coulson, with his DNA and obviously the same person but having lived a completely different life?  If they ever explained that, I don't remember.

They did but I'm forgetting the details.

Google is your friend.

Honestly I would if I cared haha. I love the show but I'm fine not remembering that stuff.

Ok, well... then... Google is Bob's friend. 

[Orbert]

Nope, not mine either.  Seriously, if we're discussing the show, I figure I could ask a question and someone here would just answer it.  It's not like I'm sitting here doing something else and I'm suddenly stricken with a burning need to know why Sarge looked and sounded like Coulson.  Certainly not enough to bother Googling it.  It's just not that important, but I thought someone here might know.

[Adami]

Nope, not mine either.  Seriously, if we're discussing the show, I figure I could ask a question and someone here would just answer it.  It's not like I'm sitting here doing something else and I'm suddenly stricken with a burning need to know why Sarge looked and sounded like Coulson.  Certainly not enough to bother Googling it.  It's just not that important, but I thought someone here might know.

I think, and my memory is lacking, the Sarge wasn't really coulson but an alien who somehow merged with part of coulson and took on his form and so forth? Something like that.

[gzarruk]

IIRC it had something to do with Coulson being there with the monoliths in Season 5? When he died, that supernatural "being" took over a "clone" of Coulson because of the monoliths and stuff... again, we should probably just google it

About the series finale, I enjoyed it, even though it didn't have as much as an emotional impact on me as the Season 5 finale, where they changed the timeline and prevented Earth's destruction, but caused Fitz's death (even though OG Fitz was still frozen somewhere in space), and with Coulson properly saying goodbye to everyone before he died (for good this time... kinda). THAT was the best season finale and it worked much better as a series finale. I think even they thought they were going to get cancelled at that point so they went all in there. The next two seasons were announced at the same time and they work much better as a full season rather than two shorter ones. Then they had to come up with some crazy explanations for keeping Coulson around, hence the appearance of Sarge and then LMD/Chronicom Coulson.

Loved finally seeing Fitz and Simmons get the happy ending they deserved, though, as previous episodes where very misleading as to what really happened to Fitz for this last season.

Deke staying behnid in the other timeline seemed like a plot device more than anything else, there's no way one of the Shield agents from that time couldn't do what he did, but I guess the plot just NEEDED someone to stay there to ensure the "this is our last mission together" prophecy.

[bosk1]

Kinda dumb question perhaps, but I need a good viewing order for the X films.  I honestly can't remember whether I have even seen all of them.  I have the first one, X2, and Wolverine.  The kids have seen those relatively recently, in that order.  For the rest, what order should we watch them in?  I think I saw some of the others, but as I said, I don't recall.

Strangely, D+ only has the original, Days of Future Past, and Apocalyse, so there are definitely gaps there.