Pantera

[DoctorAction]

I got into them as a teen when Vulgar came out and they utterly blew me away. I thought that album was the heaviest I'd heard since Reign In Blood. Then I went back to Cowboys and it had all this classic metal influence all over it too and it was amazing.

Oddly of its time, though. Those albums are definitely achievement enough but they never got that good again. Awful what happened to Dime. Seemed like such a cool guy and was a real individual player. Vinnie too was doing really groovy double bass drumming that I don't remember hearing before then, and I've always felt he was a bit overlooked.

They're not a band I've listened to in years, tbh. Hasn't aged too well for me, and I suspect it's the sound. Their production was really impressive at the time but I feel like it was also the start of the ubiquitous, over-polished metal sound that I don't dig.

However, Charlie is one my favourite drummers and Zakk is clearly an amazing player. Those boys should crush it. Will be interesting to see what it's like.

[wolfking]

The riffing in Regular People is some of the most underrated shit ever!

Many time yes to this! I absolutely LOVE that song. That main riff is incredible.

The whole first minute is just off the charts.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

PANTERA Returns For First Appearance at Hell & Heaven Fest in Mexico

Sounds pretty huge actually, especially for being the first show. Charlie nails the sound and feel of Vinnie.

[twosuitsluke]

PANTERA Returns For First Appearance at Hell & Heaven Fest in Mexico

Sounds pretty huge actually, especially for being the first show. Charlie nails the sound and feel of Vinnie.

Just watched Walk and thar was my main takeaway! I could imagine Vinnie behind the kit and they sound fucking HUGE.

Weird seeing Phil so stationary but his vocals weren't half bad and Zakk doing a pretty damn good job.

Maybe I need to do all i can to see this. I only got into Pantera after they'd split so never got to see them.

Edit: I've watched a few more of the videos from last night and I've gotta say, they do a great job but it's really the guitar solos where I realise how unique Dimebag was. It's the main point in each song where I feel it's lacking,maybe just me though.

[cfmoran13]

They sound pretty good.  Is it me or are they tuned down a 1/2 step?  Not a criticism, just an observation.  The scheduling of this tour is really gonna help out Phil a lot.  He won't be out there 3-4 nights a week, blowing out his voice, and will be able to rest it properly.

[gmillerdrake]

they do a great job but it's really the guitar solos where I realise how unique Dimebag was. It's the main point in each song where I feel it's lacking,maybe just me though.

Yeah....I've watched a couple vids also and agree. You'll never capture Dime's presence and ability.....it's a serviceable enough job I suppose for a Pantera cover band but I've never been all that impressed with Zakk's playing anyway. Always thought he was more of a 'character playing a part' than an actual good musician. Which is fine....just, you can find 50 local guitarists in your city that are just as good if not 'better' than him.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

they do a great job but it's really the guitar solos where I realise how unique Dimebag was. It's the main point in each song where I feel it's lacking,maybe just me though.

Yeah....I've watched a couple vids also and agree. You'll never capture Dime's presence and ability.....it's a serviceable enough job I suppose for a Pantera cover band but I've never been all that impressed with Zakk's playing anyway. Always thought he was more of a 'character playing a part' than an actual good musician. Which is fine....just, you can find 50 local guitarists in your city that are just as good if not 'better' than him.

I was listening to them open with A New Level and i'm not sure what Zakk was playing when the faster riff starts, that wasn't the right rythm or maybe the audio is distorted i'm not sure. Maybe he got a brainfart or something.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Supposedly he didn't even start learning the songs 'til a few weeks ago, and they didn't rehearse until a week before the first shows.  That's not auspicious for a successful tribute tour.  In the phone camera recording of "Cowboys From Hell", Zakk isn't even really bothering to play the solo, he just takes a few licks from it and then wanks the rest. 

[Grappler]

Supposedly he didn't even start learning the songs 'til a few weeks ago, and they didn't rehearse until a week before the first shows.  That's not auspicious for a successful tribute tour.

Well, he was on tour with BLS and missed some rehearsals for that reason.  It seems like he did a serviceable job - not the tightest, but he didn't straigth up butcher the songs.  Charlie was kicking ass and it sounded just like Vinnie playing drums.  Phil sounded really good.  From the videos I've seen, it wasn't the ferocious live show that they used to put on in the 90's, but they're all older.  At least fans that never saw the original band get to see them play these songs live again. 

I do love that they have Dime and Vinnie's portraits on the bass drums.  That's a really kickass thing to do. 

[LithoJazzoSphere]

not the tightest, but he didn't straigth up butcher the songs.

Yeah, this is hardly a ringing endorsement.  I heard all the skeptical voices and wanted to hold on passing judgment, hoping they'd take this more seriously, but this is worrying so far. 

[MetalJunkie]

Man, I used to love Pantera. I lost interest after seeing that video of Anselmo doing the Nazi salute and yelling "white power."

They've definitely got some bangers, but I don't want to support them anymore.

[Grappler]

not the tightest, but he didn't straigth up butcher the songs.

Yeah, this is hardly a ringing endorsement.  I heard all the skeptical voices and wanted to hold on passing judgment, hoping they'd take this more seriously, but this is worrying so far.

I'm just comparing him to Dime.  Part of it may be that it's hard to hear on video and that the music is downtuned.  Dime was just always on and very perfect in his playing.  Zakk was a little looser - the riffs were there, but it doesn't always sound perfect.  I think he did a good job and I'd have walked away happy if I saw that first show.

Charlie put up a nice little thing on social media - he wore one of Dime's wristbands and had a pair of Vinnie's gloves with him on stage.  You can tell that it means a lot to him to be playing these songs and he put in a lot of time practicing to be spot-on. 

[KevShmev]

I can't say I am a Pantera fan, but isn't have Anselmo and Wylde in the same band like prick overload?  If I had to think of the 5-10 biggest pricks in rock or metal, both would unquestionably be on the list.

[cfmoran13]

As people have said, it's their first show.  I've seen worst "first night" tour performances from people.  By the time the Metallica tour starts, I have no doubt they're gonna be a fine-tuned machine.  Charlie and Zakk are touring together at the moment.  So, they can practice songs together every day if they want.  All 4 of them know what this means to people.  They certainly don't want to disappoint anyone.  Nor, do they want to not do Vinnie and Dime justice.

Of the people who were actually at that show, I'm sure you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who walked away disappointed.  Youtube is a blessing and a curse.  People who missed something actually get to see it.  But, people who missed something get to pause and rewind and rewatch it over and over to critique it as well.

[deggs37]

I can't say I am a Pantera fan, but isn't have Anselmo and Wylde in the same band like prick overload?  If I had to think of the 5-10 biggest pricks in rock or metal, both would unquestionably be on the list.

What gives you the impression that Zakk Wylde is a prick? He always seemed pretty chill to me. Doesn't shit talk in interviews, and always gives praise to other musicians. I mean, anyone that can manage to get along with Sharon for 30+ years can't just be a prick.

[wolfking]

Yeah Zakk always comes across quite gracious, respectful and humble from what I've seen.

I think they sound great.  I'm happy with Zakk doing his own thing though here.

[Adami]

Yea, Zakk always came across as a cool but weird dude. Not one I'd have anything in common with, but far from a prick.



Also checked out a few videos. Charlie sounds like Vinnie. Phil sounds like....a meh version of Phil. Rex sounds mostly inaudible. Zakk sounds like Zakk playing Pantera songs in his own style.


I guess it depends what you want. If this was just the new Pantera, then I'd be fine with Zakk putting his own style on things. If this is really meant as a tribute to Pantera, and they want to be true to the original sound, then he's far from that.

[Setlist Scotty]

Keep in mind that I've never been a Pantera fan aside from perhaps Cemetery Gates and maybe one or two other tracks, so this "reunion" or whatever you wanna call it doesn't mean much to me personally. But am I the only one calling BS on how this is what at least Vinnie would want? I check out Blabbermouth pretty often, and regularly I see "headlines" from all sort of musicians such as Paul Stanley, Corey Taylor and a bunch of others who have all proclaimed in interviews that Dime and Vinnie would be proud of this. Now I know that the estates of both Dime and Vinnie have given this thing the OK, but given that Vinnie remained on non-speaking terms with Phil until he died (and I don't think his relationship with Rex was great either) and based on comments I've read that he made in various interviews (courtesy of Blabbermouth), I find it hard to believe that Vinnie personally would've been OK with this thing. Am I the only one on this board to think this way?

Like I said, it doesn't matter to me personally either way, but I find it comical how all these famous musicians are speaking out in support of this as if it's necessary or if they're trying to convince the naysayers to see that this is a good thing that Vinnie would've wanted. From my perspective, it looks more like wishful thinking or simply trying to push something through as fact until it essentially becomes fact.  Anyone more knowledgeable about Pantera, feel free to explain this to me (aside from telling me that Phil and Rex were also part of the band and so therefore have the right to perform - I get that). Is there any provable evidence that Vinnie had a change of heart shortly before he died? Because from my (very limited) perspective, if Vinnie was still alive today, I don't think "Pantera" would be out on tour again right now or perhaps ever.

[wolfking]

Yea, Zakk always came across as a cool but weird dude. Not one I'd have anything in common with, but far from a prick.



Also checked out a few videos. Charlie sounds like Vinnie. Phil sounds like....a meh version of Phil. Rex sounds mostly inaudible. Zakk sounds like Zakk playing Pantera songs in his own style.


I guess it depends what you want. If this was just the new Pantera, then I'd be fine with Zakk putting his own style on things. If this is really meant as a tribute to Pantera, and they want to be true to the original sound, then he's far from that.

For his age and the abuse he's put on his body, I think he's sounding really good.

[The Realm]

Yeah Zakk always comes across quite gracious, respectful and humble from what I've seen.

I think they sound great.  I'm happy with Zakk doing his own thing though here.

Totally agree with this.

[Adami]

Yea, Zakk always came across as a cool but weird dude. Not one I'd have anything in common with, but far from a prick.



Also checked out a few videos. Charlie sounds like Vinnie. Phil sounds like....a meh version of Phil. Rex sounds mostly inaudible. Zakk sounds like Zakk playing Pantera songs in his own style.


I guess it depends what you want. If this was just the new Pantera, then I'd be fine with Zakk putting his own style on things. If this is really meant as a tribute to Pantera, and they want to be true to the original sound, then he's far from that.

For his age and the abuse he's put on his body, I think he's sounding really good.

Totally. Still meh, but he sounds better than I expected.

[jammindude]

Keep in mind that I've never been a Pantera fan aside from perhaps Cemetery Gates and maybe one or two other tracks, so this "reunion" or whatever you wanna call it doesn't mean much to me personally. But am I the only one calling BS on how this is what at least Vinnie would want? I check out Blabbermouth pretty often, and regularly I see "headlines" from all sort of musicians such as Paul Stanley, Corey Taylor and a bunch of others who have all proclaimed in interviews that Dime and Vinnie would be proud of this. Now I know that the estates of both Dime and Vinnie have given this thing the OK, but given that Vinnie remained on non-speaking terms with Phil until he died (and I don't think his relationship with Rex was great either) and based on comments I've read that he made in various interviews (courtesy of Blabbermouth), I find it hard to believe that Vinnie personally would've been OK with this thing. Am I the only one on this board to think this way?

Like I said, it doesn't matter to me personally either way, but I find it comical how all these famous musicians are speaking out in support of this as if it's necessary or if they're trying to convince the naysayers to see that this is a good thing that Vinnie would've wanted. From my perspective, it looks more like wishful thinking or simply trying to push something through as fact until it essentially becomes fact.  Anyone more knowledgeable about Pantera, feel free to explain this to me (aside from telling me that Phil and Rex were also part of the band and so therefore have the right to perform - I get that). Is there any provable evidence that Vinnie had a change of heart shortly before he died? Because from my (very limited) perspective, if Vinnie was still alive today, I don't think "Pantera" would be out on tour again right now or perhaps ever.

+1

[LithoJazzoSphere]

As far as I know the whole reason this hadn't happened earlier was because Vinnie wasn't ok with it due to his broken relationship with Phil.  I hadn't heard of him changing his mind either before his passing.  I'm sure this will sell plenty of tickets, but it would have been much bigger if they'd done it years earlier.  Metal has kind of been moving on from them for awhile. 

[Grappler]

Keep in mind that I've never been a Pantera fan aside from perhaps Cemetery Gates and maybe one or two other tracks, so this "reunion" or whatever you wanna call it doesn't mean much to me personally. But am I the only one calling BS on how this is what at least Vinnie would want? I check out Blabbermouth pretty often, and regularly I see "headlines" from all sort of musicians such as Paul Stanley, Corey Taylor and a bunch of others who have all proclaimed in interviews that Dime and Vinnie would be proud of this. Now I know that the estates of both Dime and Vinnie have given this thing the OK, but given that Vinnie remained on non-speaking terms with Phil until he died (and I don't think his relationship with Rex was great either) and based on comments I've read that he made in various interviews (courtesy of Blabbermouth), I find it hard to believe that Vinnie personally would've been OK with this thing. Am I the only one on this board to think this way?

Like I said, it doesn't matter to me personally either way, but I find it comical how all these famous musicians are speaking out in support of this as if it's necessary or if they're trying to convince the naysayers to see that this is a good thing that Vinnie would've wanted. From my perspective, it looks more like wishful thinking or simply trying to push something through as fact until it essentially becomes fact.  Anyone more knowledgeable about Pantera, feel free to explain this to me (aside from telling me that Phil and Rex were also part of the band and so therefore have the right to perform - I get that). Is there any provable evidence that Vinnie had a change of heart shortly before he died? Because from my (very limited) perspective, if Vinnie was still alive today, I don't think "Pantera" would be out on tour again right now or perhaps ever.

Vinnie held a grudge against Phil, and never let it go.  I believe Phil eventually made amends with Rita Haney, Dime's widow.  I don't think Vinnie was ever going to be ok with Phil, and I don't think Vinnie would play in a version of Pantera without Dime.  So the band would never have played again if Vinnie were alive. 

With Vinnie being dead, I don't think it matters as to how he would have felt about a Pantera tribute or reunion.  Phil was playing Pantera sets with his solo band over the last handful of years, keeping the songs alive.  He, Rex and the Abbot estate seemed to take extra care in getting two guys that not only could musically do the job, but were also very good friends of Dime and Vinnie.  It's not just two hired guns.  I appreciate that more than seeing them go out with two guys from Phil's solo band.

[TAC]

  He, Rex and the Abbot estate seemed to take extra care in getting two guys that not only could musically do the job, but were also very good friends of Dime and Vinnie.  It's not just two hired guns.  I appreciate that more than seeing them go out with two guys from Phil's solo band.

This.

Zakk and Charlie bring a lot of cred to this.

[wolfking]

  He, Rex and the Abbot estate seemed to take extra care in getting two guys that not only could musically do the job, but were also very good friends of Dime and Vinnie.  It's not just two hired guns.  I appreciate that more than seeing them go out with two guys from Phil's solo band.

This.

Zakk and Charlie bring a lot of cred to this.

Zakk and Dime being best friends is a huge reason that I feel Zakk doesn't need to replicate Dime and can just be himself for the most part.  He was the obvious choice and I wouldn't think any Pantera fan would be unhappy with him being the one stepping in.

[DoctorAction]

I thought it sounded fairly good. Not something I needed to happen in my musical universe but they didn't fuck it up, afaic.

[EPICVIEW]

diggin this....   feel ok to like with zakk and charlie...

[TAC]

This popped up in my youtube feed tonight..

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XhZKIn8wk4A

[LithoJazzoSphere]

It kind of depends on what you're into the band for.  To some people Phil was the best part of the band, and those people are more likely amenable to Zakk filling in.  To me Dime was the most important member, so it won't be really possible to have any semblance of authenticity. 

[WilliamMunny]

This popped up in my youtube feed tonight..

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XhZKIn8wk4A

Everyone involved has been up front with their intentions, so I don't have a massive problem with how this is being billed.

That said, I cannot, for the life of me, understand why they didn't call it something else...anything, really. I mean, call it Trendkill, call it Cowboys From Hell, call it Death Rattle...whatever, but why call it Pantera? Oh, that's right, money.

I mean, Vinnie was consistent right up until his death. If it were me in any of those four's shoes, I would not feel comfortable playing under a Pantera banner...especially when something like 'Pantera: Revisited' would have felt so much more in line with Vinnie's wishes.

I dunno...it's fine, I suppose. I'm not going to blame any of them for making a choice that aligns with the promoters, but it certainly doesn't 'feel' as warm and fuzzy as it should...at least for me.

[TAC]

I just threw it out there as it seemed relevant to the discussion of the last couple of days. I never listened to Pantera so I don't really care about this in the slightest. My biggest problem is that it puts Anthrax ever further on the back burner with Charlie tied up with this.

And there's no way they put this together without the Metallica tour. This has likely been being worked on for some time.

[cfmoran13]

I just threw it out there as it seemed relevant to the discussion of the last couple of days. I never listened to Pantera so I don't really care about this in the slightest. My biggest problem is that it puts Anthrax ever further on the back burner with Charlie tied up with this.

Anthrax is out touring in the beginning of '23 with BLS.  After that, I'm sure Anthrax's focus is on completing their new album.  The dates of this Metallica tour are so sparse, I don't imagine it's going to interfere terribly with their plans.  Even when they inevitably add some US festival dates, there will probably be more than enough time to work on their new album.  Anthrax could even end up on some of the same festival bills as Halftera.

As to why they're not calling it something else... It's all about branding and the guarantee.  Going out as Cowboys From Hell or something similar, they'll have to work twice as hard to get the casual listeners/fans to realize they aren't your typical tribute band (even though some call this exactly that).  And, they probably wouldn't get as much money being billed that way.  Everyone knows what this is, even the haters.  They just choose to shit on it.  I've loved Pantera's music for the last 30 years.  This isn't Pantera.  But, it is 4 people who respect the legacy, 2 of whom are from the classic line-up, of the band.  They're bringing Pantera's music to a lot of people who probably missed out the first time around, hopefully making some new fans along the way.  I can't wait to see them take the stage at MetLife Stadium in August '23.

[TAC]

I just threw it out there as it seemed relevant to the discussion of the last couple of days. I never listened to Pantera so I don't really care about this in the slightest. My biggest problem is that it puts Anthrax ever further on the back burner with Charlie tied up with this.

Anthrax is out touring in the beginning of '23 with BLS.  After that, I'm sure Anthrax's focus is on completing their new album.  The dates of this Metallica tour are so sparse, I don't imagine it's going to interfere terribly with their plans.  Even when they inevitably add some US festival dates, there will probably be more than enough time to work on their new album.  Anthrax could even end up on some of the same festival bills as Halftera.

Yeah, I guess you could look at it that way, but the fact of the matter is that Anthrax will now be working around Pantera's schedule. Not that Anthrax has fucking done anything recently anyway. For All Kings is only almost 6 years old.

[nick_z]

Yeah, I guess you could look at it that way, but the fact of the matter is that Anthrax will now be working around Pantera's schedule. Not that Anthrax has fucking done anything recently anyway. For All Kings is only almost 6 years old.

Great album, btw. Like it much better than Worship Music. Wouldn't mind hearing some new material from them.