Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)

[gmillerdrake]

This was me watching that last episode.

   I think this was most of us during the episode.


We will see how it all ties together as a part of the overall story but it was certainly a step back from the first two episodes.

[faizoff]

I think at this point the first two seasons of The Mandalorian are the only episodic series that worked well and be entertaining enough you didn't need an entire giant backstory of information to enjoy. I mean it helped if you knew about the jawas but it didn't detract. I knew nothing of Ahsoka in S2 but it was done well enough that you didn't need her entire background story to enjoy that episode.

That changed a lot for the 3rd season and made the experience somewhat jarring. That last episode of the Acolyte seemed a bit fragmented and not well stitched together. I'm going to be watching it all like I do, they had a good start with the first 2 episodes, but this backstory episode was just off.

[XJDenton]

I'm honestly not seeing the problems you guys all seem to be having with this episode. Honestly I found all the new stuff quite interesting.

[BlackInk]

I'm honestly not seeing the problems you guys all seem to be having with this episode. Honestly I found all the new stuff quite interesting.

Me too from a pure idea-point of view. I don't dislike any of the ideas in this episode that I can recall. It was mostly the specifics and technicalities of the connective tissue I felt was a bit lacking.

[XJDenton]

The main problem I had was how quickly Mae went to "murder" once it was clear her sister wanted to leave, but you could rationalise it as a young child being given access to the force/Thread only a day ago, and the Jedi did bring up how training children in the ways of the Force could be dangerous.

[gmillerdrake]

The main problem I had was how quickly Mae went to "murder" once it was clear her sister wanted to leave, but you could rationalise it as a young child being given access to the force/Thread only a day ago, and the Jedi did bring up how training children in the ways of the Force could be dangerous.

Good point.


I think my issues with the Disney's SW output is my expectations. I expect a muliti billion dollar company to have good writers and people on staff who can see things and say "that is dumb" or "look how awful that looks" (looking at you street chase scene in Book of Boba Fett or the young Leia chase scene in Obi Wan)

There are things they've done that are just inexcusable for such a big company with all the resources they have. The prosthetic thing in the first episode.....that actor looked like a clown....it was awful. No excuse. The young 'twin' actresses.....just bruatally bad at delivering lines and portraying real emotion. I could go on for paragraphs with things that just shouldn't be happening in these shows yet they do.

[jingle.boy]

Disney's had an issue with this recently. Folks flipped for the young actress they cast as a young Ahsoka but for me....she wasn't all that great at delivering the lines and her 'look' was off as well. Seems they're strictly trying to go for look alone rather than finding 'kids' that can actually act. I thought the casting of twins that don't even look like each other was dumb.....and, they weren't really that good of actors. Very 'soap opera' quality

Uh.... a few quick scans of some articles suggest the two actresses are indeed twins.  Not sure if they're identical or maternal though.  If it's the latter, then that is kinda dumb when they have the same actress playing older Mae/Osha.

Still... I wasn't as perturbed about this episode as some.  And there's definitely something else at play with the death of the entire witch colony.  Clearly Tobin was involved and has immense regret, since he willingly drank the poison because of 'what he did'.

[The Letter M]

Uh.... a few quick scans of some articles suggest the two actresses are indeed twins.  Not sure if they're identical or maternal though.  If it's the latter, then that is kinda dumb when they have the same actress playing older Mae/Osha.

Still... I wasn't as perturbed about this episode as some.  And there's definitely something else at play with the death of the entire witch colony.  Clearly Tobin was involved and has immense regret, since he willingly drank the poison because of 'what he did'.

There's some scenes from pre-release trailers that show what might have actually happened, so they're definitely hiding stuff and using unreliable narration in episode 3. We will eventually learn what really happened to the coven, and probably how Mae survived and why she did what she did. My best guess is because Osha wanted to be a Jedi and probably had visions of them, maybe Mae had visions of the Sith and veered into the dark side trying to kill her sister.

-Marc.

[gmillerdrake]

Uh.... a few quick scans of some articles suggest the two actresses are indeed twins.  Not sure if they're identical or maternal though.  If it's the latter, then that is kinda dumb when they have the same actress playing older Mae/Osha.

Still... I wasn't as perturbed about this episode as some.  And there's definitely something else at play with the death of the entire witch colony.  Clearly Tobin was involved and has immense regret, since he willingly drank the poison because of 'what he did'.

That may be true but then it just goes to another horrible choice by Disney. Casting twin kids that don't look alike after showing and having a character in the show state how much they look alike. You can't follow that with casting twins that look nothing alike.

[BlackInk]

I do also find Osha's strong drive and willingness to become a Jedi strange, given her upbringing and the view those around her have of the Jedi. Which is a bit bad as it's the driving force of the entire episode. It's like growing up a fundamentalist Christian and wanting to spread your wings, and the first thing you go to is Satanism, knowing only what the Christian fundamentalists have told you about it.

[ErHaO]

I don't think the problem of The Acolyte is witches or the concept of this story. I think the problem, at least for me, is quality. I don't know, it mostly just feels off to me. From the acting, dialouge, to visual aspects. I am not enjoying it unfortunately. Sometimes it does feel like the got some cosplayers and gave them a bunch of money.

While I enjoyed Kenobi, I often had a similar feeling there. That had some weirdly "pre-2000's direct to tv film" moments in it. Like the moment that Leia was chased and escaped a bunch of adults in the forest. It just felt kinda amateurish at times.

[Orbert]

I thought it was fine.  We now know what happened on Brendok, or at least from a certain point of view, ha ha.  But now we can get on with the story.  The only complaint I have is that it was kinda boring how it all took so long to play out, but it was important exposition.

Mae is/was a freakin' psycho.

I was wondering how Mae could grow up thinking that Osha was dead, and vice versa per Osha, but the way it all went down made it plausible.  But basically Mae started the fire, so her blaming the four Jedi for the deaths of the whole coven, including her sister and her moms, is pure psycho blame-throwing.  Obviously this is going to cause problems later.

[lordxizor]

I thought it was a fine episode. Not great, but an interesting idea. I agree with others that it makes sense that there are other force users. I'm not understanding what all the backlash is about. It's no Empire Strikes Back or even The Mandalorian seasons 1 or 2, but it's still interesting and it's still Star Wars.

[Orbert]

I really like the idea that The Force exists in this universe, and always has, so naturally there will be various groups that have learned to work with it in a more organized fashion, but also the independants, those who are force-sensitive but that's about it.  The Jedi never came checking up on them, or any other group, so they're basically just "Dave, who can do some shit that we don't understand but is really handy when we go to Canto Bight."  They've been slowly expanding upon the concept throughout the movies and television series.  I mean, first there were the Jedi, then the idea of their "evil counterpart" the Sith.  And there were random force-sensitive folks here and there; the kid on Canto Bight, Chirrut Imwe (the blind Chinese guy in Rogue One), etc.  And we were introduced to the Nightsisters in Ahsoka, and they were referred to as "witches".  I figure that this group is something of a forerunner to the Nightsisters, although I guess that would be tricky if they're all dead.

I thought the Mae and Osha looked enough alike for me to buy them as twin sisters, but I also liked that they had slightly different appearances and affectations because that made it easier to tell them apart.  I've known a few pairs of identical twins in my time, and despite having the same genetic makeup, once you get to know them, there are differences both physical and behavioral.

[XJDenton]

I think 90% of the perceived difference is just in how they were acting and their different personalities, which is the whole point really. The idea they look nothing a alike is mad to me. Like, are we watching the same footage?

[lordxizor]

I think 90% of the perceived difference is just in how they were acting and their different personalities, which is the whole point really. The idea they look nothing a alike is mad to me. Like, are we watching the same footage?

I could tell they looked slightly different, but couldn't tell if it was my imagination or not. I was not sure if it was two different actors or the same girl through movie magic

[jingle.boy]

I thought the Mae and Osha looked enough alike for me to buy them as twin sisters, but I also liked that they had slightly different appearances and affectations because that made it easier to tell them apart.  I've known a few pairs of identical twins in my time, and despite having the same genetic makeup, once you get to know them, there are differences both physical and behavioral.

This was me too.  It took me about 1/2 the episode to be fully sure which one was Mae, and which was Osha.

[gmillerdrake]

This was me too.  It took me about 1/2 the episode to be fully sure which one was Mae, and which was Osha.

Would have been fine if they had the older versions be two similar looking actresses. Having the same actress play both older versions suggested they'd look more alike than they did.

And Disneys had a bad run lately on these shows of child actors who can't act.....those two were pretty good examples. The young Leai was cringeworthy was well.

[lordxizor]

I'm not sure Disney (or anyone else for that matter) has ever been able to consistently get good child actors. I don't think these girls are too bad. Not great, but not so bad I really thought about it.

[lonestar]

I'm not sure Disney (or anyone else for that matter) has ever been able to consistently get good child actors. I don't think these girls are too bad. Not great, but not so bad I really thought about it.

With the exception of Stranger Things that is. Those kids were amazing

[jingle.boy]

Would have been fine if they had the older versions be two similar looking actresses. Having the same actress play both older versions suggested they'd look more alike than they did.

And Disneys had a bad run lately on these shows of child actors who can't act.....those two were pretty good examples. The young Leai was cringeworthy was well.

Agreed on all of this - especially the bolded.

Child actors can be great - as RJ said, the Stranger Things ensemble was amazing.

[faizoff]

The child actors on Stranger things were fantastic, as were the ones on Game of Thrones. I don't have a problem with any of the story elements in the last episode, in fact they sound really intriguing, with the force thread, witches mothers,etc.. it's just like many have said, the execution and ediitng and directing, basically everything else was off. They really haven't sold me on why the Jedi have this tension between the witches. I wish people could set up tension like how Vince Gilligan and gang do. Even a prequel show like Better Call Saul has so much tension when you already know the fate and ultimate story arc of several characters, it's all in the execution. So far in these Star Wars shows, it's been a mixed bag.

[Stadler]

I'm not sure Disney (or anyone else for that matter) has ever been able to consistently get good child actors. I don't think these girls are too bad. Not great, but not so bad I really thought about it.

I HATE child actors.  I mean, I don't "hate" anything, really*, but I am not generally a fan of child actors, even the ones that are generally recognized as "good" ones.   To me it's generally about "character"; they say the words, and it's just whether their character comes through.  That's not, to me, acting. 

I even include "Stranger Things" in that, though that is admittedly better than most (though not as good as Game Of Thrones).  Though I'm not enamored with Gaten Matarazzo and Millie Bobbie Jovi like most people are.  Harsh, I know, but for me, Gaten Matarazzo was a 'thing' because he was cute not because he was a great actor.


* The typical exclusion is "Radiohead", but I think that's a given at this point.

[lonestar]

Gate was lights out a fantastic actor on that show. This is about as wrong as you've ever been dude.

[jingle.boy]

Gate was lights out a fantastic actor on that show. This is about as wrong as you've ever been dude.

And that's saying something!

[lonestar]

[gmillerdrake]

Agreed on all of this - especially the bolded.

Child actors can be great - as RJ said, the Stranger Things ensemble was amazing.

I just think Disney is dropping the ball focusing on the 'look' of a character rather than if that actor can actually act and make you care about said character.

The only people who will say they actually felt anything at all from the performances from the two young  twins are people who are lying to you. It was bad and detracted from the story. That and the (once again) lame script

[Stadler]

Gate was lights out a fantastic actor on that show. This is about as wrong as you've ever been dude.

I've had this debate with my daughter a number of times (she's introduced me to Stranger Things, and she's a huge Gaten fan).  I dunno; maybe it's my general disdain for child actors. 

[kaos2900]

I've only had a chance to watch the first episode so far. Thought it was ok.

Skimming through the comments here I'm not surprised that this series is typical woke disney as the High Republic books are the same way.

Wonder what Dave Filoni's involvement was on this. I'm guessing this was developed before he was promoted.

[gmillerdrake]

Wonder what Dave Filoni's involvement was on this. I'm guessing this was developed before he was promoted.

I'm sure he was still involved on some level.....I forgot what title he has but I think he oversees everything SW's now. Doesn't matter though if you still have Kennedy around....I'm a big Filoni fan but it's pretty apparent that there are still other factors that are jammed into these stories

[lonestar]

Oh shit got real at the end of that one 

[gmillerdrake]

Oh shit got real at the end of that one 

Yeah....i had suspicions that the aloof helper of Mae's was actually the big 'bad' guy and this episode all but verified it. The way he says things and now the circumstance of his arrival there on site.

Thankfully the last ten minutes breathed life into what was another episode that struggled to hold my attention.

[lonestar]

Hopefully they pick up on that last ten seconds, and fucking run with it.

[gmillerdrake]

Hopefully they pick up on that last ten seconds, and fucking run with it.

I have read that this season does turn a corner after a lot of these groundwork episodes are set in motion. I just wish they were just a bit more enticing.

[faizoff]

Thankfully the last ten minutes breathed life into what was another episode that struggled to hold my attention.

Same thought, that episode was a slog to get through even though it was the shortest so far. The ending was the only interesting part.