Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)

[jingle.boy]

Did you skip over the "then"?   If what?


So what IS the relationship to the Star Wars universe here?  I read this thread diligently, but honestly, I checked out long ago with the actual content (that's nothing to do with "woke", by the way).  The season of the Mandalorian with Luke's appearance is the last fresh Star Wars content I've watched.

Grammar nazi!    jk, bud.


"... then people ought to give their head a shake".
or
"if it's the content of the show..."

[Stadler]

Grammar nazi!    jk, bud.


"... then people ought to give their head a shake".
or
"if it's the content of the show..."

HAHA, I wasn't busting balls, it was a compliment!  I wanted to know what you were saying!!!! 

[jingle.boy]

HAHA, I wasn't busting balls, it was a compliment!  I wanted to know what you were saying!!!! 

All good, boss.

[BlackInk]

Just went on IMDb to put The Acolyte on my watchlist and saw that it has a 4.6/10. That's insane. It wouldn't surprise me if any one person thought it was a 4/10, but for that to be the average on that site is incredibly incredibly low, and I just don't understand it. Is it all because of behind-the-scenes comments? Because I cannot think of anything offensive in the episodes themselves.

It's better than Kenobi, which is widely disliked by fans but still has a 7.1/10, a much more normal score for even a mediocre show.

[Adami]

Just went on IMDb to put The Acolyte on my watchlist and saw that it has a 4.6/10. That's insane. It wouldn't surprise me if any one person thought it was a 4/10, but for that to be the average on that site is incredibly incredibly low, and I just don't understand it. Is it all because of behind-the-scenes comments? Because I cannot think of anything offensive in the episodes themselves.

It's better than Kenobi, which is widely disliked by fans but still has a 7.1/10, a much more normal score for even a mediocre show.

I just looked, apparently 44% of the votes are for 1 star. That's intense. Hopefully will start the show sometime soon.

[pg1067]

I watched the first episode last night.

Meh....

I have to confess I was disappointed at the big incident that happened early in the episode, but I also wish someone would write a Jedi who didn't talk like a pretentious nob.

[Stadler]

At the implicit direction of this thread, I started to dig in to some of the literature around this show and none of it makes me want to watch this.  That has NOTHING to do with "woke" or the cast or anything like that (with one possible exception).   

Star Wars used to be FUN.  Yeah, you could dig into certain aspects of it, but it was a cartoon, it was a love letter to Saturday matinees.  "I love you!"  "I know!"    "Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?"   "I've got a bad feeling about this!"   None of this new show sounds... FUN to me. 

(One critique that may border on the "woke" issue; I'm personally not partial to story lines that imply that it's virtuous or admirable to ignore the rules; I get that that's a premise in most hero movies - the renegade outlaw that defies authority to save the day from bureaucratic nonsense - but here I think there's the implication that fundamentally the entire rule-base system is flawed; there seems to be quite the dialogue that perhaps the Jedi are "fascists" and the Sith are "revolutionaries".  That's not epic comic book heroism, that's deep socio-political commentary and more a reflection of advocating a really fundamental problem in society as opposed to the sort of idealistic utopian view of what society could be that science fiction often gifts us.)

[Adami]

Isn't the entire premise of Star Wars that it's admirable to defy authority?


Are you pro-Empire?


Don't answer that, I don't think I can take it.

[BlackInk]

The idea that the Jedi order is less than ideal with a lot of questionable practices have been around for a long time. They literally indoctrinate children to become religious warriors. For a good a spiritually fulfilling cause perhaps, but it's not like critique against the Jedi is anything new in the lore. It seems to me (I obviously haven't seen the whole show yet) that they're sort of hinting at the ground work behind how the Jedi became so blind and arrogant that they literally didn't notice a Sith Lord taking over the government right under their noses. I don't know, I guess I just saw this as fun political world building.

But also, the show doesn't portray them as fascists as far as I can tell. At least not any more than they already were in the prequels.

If you long for the simpler days of the OG trilogy, I get that, but it's not like this show is doing anything really ground breaking that we haven't seen before.

[Stadler]

The idea that the Jedi order is less than ideal with a lot of questionable practices have been around for a long time. They literally indoctrinate children to become religious warriors. For a good a spiritually fulfilling cause perhaps, but it's not like critique against the Jedi is anything new in the lore. It seems to me (I obviously haven't seen the whole show yet) that they're sort of hinting at the ground work behind how the Jedi became so blind and arrogant that they literally didn't notice a Sith Lord taking over the government right under their noses. I don't know, I guess I just saw this as fun political world building.

But also, the show doesn't portray them as fascists as far as I can tell. At least not any more than they already were in the prequels.

If you long for the simpler days of the OG trilogy, I get that, but it's not like this show is doing anything really ground breaking that we haven't seen before.

Fair enough, and I'm not arguing with you since you've watched it and I haven't.  I should know better than to take faith with an opinion writer on the internet!!!

[Stadler]

Isn't the entire premise of Star Wars that it's admirable to defy authority?


Are you pro-Empire?


Don't answer that, I don't think I can take it.

Haha, no, not pro-empire.   Yeah, I get it, and I love it - Han Solo is my favorite character for a reason - but I mean something a little deeper and a little more subtle.   There's a difference between the swaggering hero knowing the rules, knowing they apply to him/her but finding themselves in an inadvertent oh shit moment on the one hand, and the protagonist making a conscious, explicit decision that the rules are dumb, and/or they don't apply to them and making a decisive moral and philosophical decision that they weren't going to comply with them. Not saying that's the case here, but that's the distinction I'm trying to get at.  I'm thinking of the difference between the fireman that takes his/her mask off in the fire - a big no-no! - to give it to the kid he/she finds in the attic and that woman in Kentucky or wherever that decided that the law that requires them to give marriage licenses to homosexual couples was "immoral" and she wasn't going to do it.  Those are not the same.

[lonestar]

But.. The new show is fun, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

[gmillerdrake]

But.. The new show is fun, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Yeah....back to that. First two episodes were fun and I enjoyed how they didn't just light up the sabers and start having a sword fight just to have one. The more 'reserved' the older Jedi are/were and willing to defend themselves/attack without going straight to the saber was neat. Except ol' boy with the yellow saber.....he is itching to dual someone.

I thought the "I have a bad feeling about this" line was a bit too 'quick'.....meaning.....I'm all good with some fan service by using that line but I think it just happened too soon in the story IMO. I'd have held out a bit longer but it fit the context and 'worked' I suppose.

[jingle.boy]

Yeah....back to that. First two episodes were fun and I enjoyed how they didn't just light up the sabers and start having a sword fight just to have one. The more 'reserved' the older Jedi are/were and willing to defend themselves/attack without going straight to the saber was neat. Except ol' boy with the yellow saber.....he is itching to dual someone.

I thought the "I have a bad feeling about this" line was a bit too 'quick'.....meaning.....I'm all good with some fan service by using that line but I think it just happened too soon in the story IMO. I'd have held out a bit longer but it fit the context and 'worked' I suppose.

Agreed wholeheartedly with the above post.  Both Trinity and Sol looked like they were toying with Mae - like a 15 year old boy toys with his 6 year old brother.

[BlackInk]

Yeah I liked that. Clearly every real Jedi so far could have killed Mae easily if they really wanted to. It forces Mae to have to be smart rather than just powerful or skilled.

[gmillerdrake]

Forgot the one thing that did bug the hell out of me. It was the brutally horrible prosthetics used to make a really young actor look old for that 'Old' Master Jedi who was in full trance/communion with the Force. Really cool force tool of the 'shield' around him while he was in deep meditation but just hire an older actor to play the part. It looked so bad....comical actually.

[Grappler]

Forgot the one thing that did bug the hell out of me. It was the brutally horrible prosthetics used to make a really young actor look old for that 'Old' Master Jedi who was in full trance/communion with the Force. Really cool force tool of the 'shield' around him while he was in deep meditation but just hire an older actor to play the part. It looked so bad....comical actually.

That was the same actor that played Tommen Baratheon on Game of Thrones (Joffrey's brother, who becomes king after Joffrey's death).  Maybe they'll have flashbacks with him being 'younger?'  I loved that force trance that he was in.

[gmillerdrake]

That was the same actor that played Tommen Baratheon on Game of Thrones (Joffrey's brother, who becomes king after Joffrey's death).  Maybe they'll have flashbacks with him being 'younger?'  I loved that force trance that he was in.

Yeah.....that's just forcing an actor into a role to say 'that was the actor from GOT' then. Hire an older actor so it doesn't look like a clown show. They ruined the cool ass 'force trance' and dare i say 'force field' that he was in by having those horrible prosthetics.

[gmillerdrake]

That was the same actor that played Tommen Baratheon on Game of Thrones (Joffrey's brother, who becomes king after Joffrey's death).  Maybe they'll have flashbacks with him being 'younger?'  I loved that force trance that he was in.

even if that does happen there's no reason for the prosthetics to look as bad and comical as they did. It's freaking Disney....they have the $$$ to hire the best in the world. It looked horrible.

[BlackInk]

Yeah that character did look kinda weird. But oddly enough in my mind I think it looked so clearly weird that it looped back around on itself and I thought it was on purpose, and so I didn't really mind 

[Orbert]

Same here.  The Star Wars universe has people of all different species.  I just figured Master Torbin was some other species with weird prosthetic makeup.  Master Kelnacca is a Jedi Wookiee, fer cryin' out loud.  That will be fun.

Anyway, we watched the first two episodes, and I like it.  As someone said, it feels more like Andor than The Mandalorian, and that's good.  Yeah, it's not perfect, but it's different and kinda cool.

[lordxizor]

I enjoyed the first two episodes as well. Not sure why this is considered so woke, though I guess the director is known to tilt that direction. One mention of mothers isn't that big of a deal. My only criticism is that the locations didn't feel as real as they did in Andor. They felt like they were shot in Galaxy's Edge in Disney World. They felt a little too... designed... or something. But overall I'm excited to see where it goes. And am hoping the wokeness is all just hype about nothing.

[MinistroRaven]

If there's a fat Jedi now (something that breaks the canon IMO) I feel can be whoever I want now. 

[lonestar]

Definitely dropped the ball on that episode a bit...awkward transitioning and directing all around, pretty stupid writing too...in a galaxy far far away they have a coven of witches?...just seemed so forced. Hopefully it's a one off and they get back to the vibe of the first two.

[gmillerdrake]

Definitely dropped the ball on that episode a bit...awkward transitioning and directing all around, pretty stupid writing too...in a galaxy far far away they have a coven of witches?...just seemed so forced. Hopefully it's a one off and they get back to the vibe of the first two.

Yeah.....agreed. Pretty clunky. There's no way a young untrained brat kills a coven of force users by setting and innocuous fire. Pretty lame writing.

And c'mon Disney.....you can't cast a set of twins that actually look like twins? Disney is routinely dropping the ball on pretty simple shit.

[The Realm]

Yeah.....agreed. Pretty clunky. There's no way a young untrained brat kills a coven of force users by setting and innocuous fire. Pretty lame writing.

I agree the execution of the episode did come across a bit lame but I don't think that is what happened. We don't know how the witches were killed. I believe the show is going to use different points of view to show/explain what exactly happened. In this episode we saw events from Osha's point of view and will probably also see this same event from the Jedi and also Mae which will fill in all the gaps.

I'll keep watching but this episode was strange and felt like a different show to episodes 1 and 2.

[lonestar]

[/quote]

I agree the execution of the episode did come across a bit lame but I don't think that is what happened. We don't know how the witches were killed. I believe the show is going to use different points of view to show/explain what exactly happened. In this episode we saw events from Osha's point of view and will probably also see this same event from the Jedi and also Mae which will fill in all the gaps.

I did think how all the witches were in one spot dead, without any burn marks, was very conspicuous, almost too conspicuous.

[gmillerdrake]

I agree the execution of the episode did come across a bit lame but I don't think that is what happened. We don't know how the witches were killed. I believe the show is going to use different points of view to show/explain what exactly happened. In this episode we saw events from Osha's point of view and will probably also see this same event from the Jedi and also Mae which will fill in all the gaps.

I'll keep watching but this episode was strange and felt like a different show to episodes 1 and 2.

Good point and I was thinking about that later last night. Maybe there was a fight between them and the Jedi....maybe they turned on each other.....in the moment it was made to appear that it was the fire but as you said...there's probably more to the story.

[BlackInk]

Yeah, this episode was definetely weaker. But that is partly because of my general disdain for flashback episodes in any show. It always feels like just a tease until we can get on with the story next week.

Overall I agree that the writing was a bit clunky, even though there are ideas in here that I actually like that just weren't executed that well.

Definitely dropped the ball on that episode a bit...awkward transitioning and directing all around, pretty stupid writing too...in a galaxy far far away they have a coven of witches?...just seemed so forced. Hopefully it's a one off and they get back to the vibe of the first two.

I actually disagree with the implausibility of a coven of witches. In a universe where certain people can sense and use the force, and the Jedi can't catch 'em all, there would all sorts of religious or quasi-religious groups consisting of or centered around force sensitive people. Honestly, I just think it's good world building. As a fan of that sort of stuff, a group seeing the mystical force in a different way and even calling it by a different name and with their own customs and rituals around it is interesting to me. And it makes sense that there are groups that would consider the Jedi to be descecrating the sacred life force by institutionalizing and militarizing it. Besides, we have seen witches before in Star Wars. The Dathomir Witches have been part of the canon for many years, and were even featured in the Ashoka show.

But the execution was a bit weird at times, especially in the dialogue and some of the acting (child acting in particular). That chant they did that randomly ended a single word of song each time was also pretty awkward.

[gmillerdrake]

especially in the dialogue and some of the acting (child acting in particular).

Disney's had an issue with this recently. Folks flipped for the young actress they cast as a young Ahsoka but for me....she wasn't all that great at delivering the lines and her 'look' was off as well. Seems they're strictly trying to go for look alone rather than finding 'kids' that can actually act. I thought the casting of twins that don't even look like each other was dumb.....and, they weren't really that good of actors. Very 'soap opera' quality

[countoftuscany42]

pretty stupid writing too...in a galaxy far far away they have a coven of witches?...just seemed so forced.

I'm confused by this complaint, we've already seen witches in Star Wars before?  The night sisters were a large part of arcs in The Clone Wars as well as in Ahsoka...

[lonestar]

I'm confused by this complaint, we've already seen witches in Star Wars before?  The night sisters were a large part of arcs in The Clone Wars as well as in Ahsoka...

I obviously wasn't aware of that. Just the term 'witches' seemed off to use in the SW setting.

[countoftuscany42]

I obviously wasn't aware of that. Just the term 'witches' seemed off to use in the SW setting.

If this was your first exposure to witches in Star Wars then I see why that could be jarring, especially in the context of a time period we haven't seen in live action before.

It's tough having Star Wars be so expansive now and the narrative hand-holding that is required if people aren't engaging with every show/novel/comic.  I came late to The Clone Wars, so learning the backstory for Darth Maul's return only after his appearance in Solo cleared up some confusion there 

[Stadler]

If this was your first exposure to witches in Star Wars then I see why that could be jarring, especially in the context of a time period we haven't seen in live action before.

It's tough having Star Wars be so expansive now and the narrative hand-holding that is required if people aren't engaging with every show/novel/comic.  I came late to The Clone Wars, so learning the backstory for Darth Maul's return only after his appearance in Solo cleared up some confusion there 

This.  And it's effectively chilled a lot of my enthusiasm for new Star Wars material.  I love nuggets as much as or more than the next guy, but having grown up on comics, where more often than not you didn't need a primer to enjoy any given issue, it's a bit much, or at least a bit much given the sometimes limited payoffs we get in return (though I recognize that's an opinion, not a fact).

[faizoff]

This was me watching that last episode.