Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Album in Food Warmer!

[TheOutlawXanadu]

It is weird to be excited about a DT album again, but I'm slowly getting there!

I was hoping for more of a Spontaneous, "back to basics" approach, and it seems that's exactly whats happening. Also the fact that this seems to very much a group effort, as opposed to the Astonishing which was clearly JP's and Jr's brainchild, is encouraging! Mangini seems to be more involved than ever in the writing process, which is also great!

What they have communicated through the updates about this new album, ticks all the boxes for me so far. Very much excited to hear the results!

I think I mentioned this before, but we haven't had a "standard" DT album in five years. That's a long time. I'm very excited to see what we get!

[Lethean]

I'm excited for a new DT album, but not over the top.  They obviously seem really energized and happy, which is great to see.  But a lot of bands are that way about an upcoming release (and I guess it would be a concern if they weren't).  So I try not to build up the hype in my mind too much and just experience the album when it came out.  The approach worked for me for The Astonishing, for sure.

[DT2003]

I'm very excited for the album. I like The Astonishing for what it was, but hope they get back to what made me fall in love with them. Although seeing them live does not get me as excited as it used to, I still look forward to their new albums as much as any other band, with the exception of all things Neal Morse related probably.

[Podaar]

Jordan and James birthday video to JP is on Facebook. 

[Bertielee]

Jordan and James birthday video to JP is on Facebook. 

Nice! And cool 8 string guitar!

[nikatapi]

Seeing JR promoting his 8-string guitar, gives me hope we might get some sick riffs in the new album.
I really liked the Astonishing, but i would be very happy with a heavy album from DT.

[Bertielee]

Seeing JR promoting his 8-string guitar, gives me hope we might get some sick riffs in the new album.
I really liked the Astonishing, but i would be very happy with a heavy album from DT.

So do I, my friend, so do I!

B.Lee

[PetFish]

I believe in a way it was, but unintentionally. When they reconvened after the break from the G3 tour JP and MP did, they knew they wanted to include an epic on the album, so their goal was to write a piece roughly 20 minutes in length. They got on a roll and before they knew it, they had actually written 40 minutes of music. So it wasn't a matter of "hey, we've really hit our stride - let's just keep writing until we start to run out of great ideas" - it was more like "holy crap! I can't believe we just wrote 40 minutes of music!"

I think it's splitting hairs about being in their stride in this case.  If they started with X and were really feeling it and came up with X^2 or whatever then I think it would apply in this case but, again, splitting hairs.  Thanks for the clarification.

Seeing JR promoting his 8-string guitar, gives me hope we might get some sick riffs in the new album.
I really liked the Astonishing, but i would be very happy with a heavy album from DT.

Heavy = Sure
8-String = Please God No

Dream Theater doesn't need an 8-string.  John Petrucci doesn't need an 8-string.  It's too much of a gimmick and will be stepping on John Myung's toes cuz at that point the bass starts to become superfluous.

They're great for djent and bands or bands like Animals as Leaders since they have no bass at all and simply play the bass lines on their 8- and 9-strings.

They're fine to mess around on but I really hope JP avoids them for actual material.  He's already used a down-tuned 7-string a whole step down to A (Illumination Theory) and the definition between notes suffers for it and going to an 8-string will only make it worse.

[Addy]

Heavy = Sure
8-String = Please God No

Dream Theater doesn't need an 8-string.  John Petrucci doesn't need an 8-string.  It's too much of a gimmick and will be stepping on John Myung's toes cuz at that point the bass starts to become superfluous.

They're great for djent and bands or bands like Animals as Leaders since they have no bass at all and simply play the bass lines on their 8- and 9-strings.

They're fine to mess around on but I really hope JP avoids them for actual material.  He's already used a down-tuned 7-string a whole step down to A (Illumination Theory) and the definition between notes suffers for it and going to an 8-string will only make it worse.

Well said. To be honest, I'm sure it wouldn't work in DT. 7 strings is enough. I find all the bands that use 8 string guitars only to chug in lower register really unlistenable. Ok, AAL makes it sound cool, but JP is not Tosin and I hope it stays this way.

[Evai]

Ok, AAL makes it sound cool, but JP is not Tosin and I hope it stays this way.

"in a controversial move by progressive metal band Dream Theater, guitarist John Petrucci announces plans to become Tosin"

[Cool Chris]

In a related story, "Who is Tosin?" becomes Google's most searched query

[Peter Mc]

Heavy = Sure
8-String = Please God No

Dream Theater doesn't need an 8-string.  John Petrucci doesn't need an 8-string.  It's too much of a gimmick and will be stepping on John Myung's toes cuz at that point the bass starts to become superfluous.

They're great for djent and bands or bands like Animals as Leaders since they have no bass at all and simply play the bass lines on their 8- and 9-strings.

They're fine to mess around on but I really hope JP avoids them for actual material.  He's already used a down-tuned 7-string a whole step down to A (Illumination Theory) and the definition between notes suffers for it and going to an 8-string will only make it worse.

Well said. To be honest, I'm sure it wouldn't work in DT. 7 strings is enough. I find all the bands that use 8 string guitars only to chug in lower register really unlistenable. Ok, AAL makes it sound cool, but JP is not Tosin and I hope it stays this way.

Yeah, have to admit, whilst I like metal DT, I don't like the really sludgy, muddy chugging DT stuff. I like it more when it's Queensrÿche style heavy with huge power chords. Not the down tuned stuff.

[Adami]

From what I've seen, 8 strings work really well in contexts like double hand tapping, or fusion or something. Low chugging just sounds like mud.

Since DT don't really explore many new areas these days, if they use an 8 string, I assume low chugging.

[nattmorker]

Heavy = Sure
8-String = Please God No

Dream Theater doesn't need an 8-string.  John Petrucci doesn't need an 8-string.  It's too much of a gimmick and will be stepping on John Myung's toes cuz at that point the bass starts to become superfluous.

They're great for djent and bands or bands like Animals as Leaders since they have no bass at all and simply play the bass lines on their 8- and 9-strings.

They're fine to mess around on but I really hope JP avoids them for actual material.  He's already used a down-tuned 7-string a whole step down to A (Illumination Theory) and the definition between notes suffers for it and going to an 8-string will only make it worse.

Well said. To be honest, I'm sure it wouldn't work in DT. 7 strings is enough. I find all the bands that use 8 string guitars only to chug in lower register really unlistenable. Ok, AAL makes it sound cool, but JP is not Tosin and I hope it stays this way.

Haken uses 8 string guitars and IMO they really know how to use them in an interesting way, not just chugging.

[GasparXR]

Heavy = Sure
8-String = Please God No

Dream Theater doesn't need an 8-string.  John Petrucci doesn't need an 8-string.  It's too much of a gimmick and will be stepping on John Myung's toes cuz at that point the bass starts to become superfluous.

They're great for djent and bands or bands like Animals as Leaders since they have no bass at all and simply play the bass lines on their 8- and 9-strings.

They're fine to mess around on but I really hope JP avoids them for actual material.  He's already used a down-tuned 7-string a whole step down to A (Illumination Theory) and the definition between notes suffers for it and going to an 8-string will only make it worse.

Well said. To be honest, I'm sure it wouldn't work in DT. 7 strings is enough. I find all the bands that use 8 string guitars only to chug in lower register really unlistenable. Ok, AAL makes it sound cool, but JP is not Tosin and I hope it stays this way.

Haken uses 8 string guitars and IMO they really know how to use them in an interesting way, not just chugging.

Agreed! They're really low passages a VERY heavy, but in very interesting ways, plus they don't just stick in the lower register all the time.

[Bertielee]

Heavy = Sure
8-String = Please God No

Dream Theater doesn't need an 8-string.  John Petrucci doesn't need an 8-string.  It's too much of a gimmick and will be stepping on John Myung's toes cuz at that point the bass starts to become superfluous.

They're great for djent and bands or bands like Animals as Leaders since they have no bass at all and simply play the bass lines on their 8- and 9-strings.

They're fine to mess around on but I really hope JP avoids them for actual material.  He's already used a down-tuned 7-string a whole step down to A (Illumination Theory) and the definition between notes suffers for it and going to an 8-string will only make it worse.

Well said. To be honest, I'm sure it wouldn't work in DT. 7 strings is enough. I find all the bands that use 8 string guitars only to chug in lower register really unlistenable. Ok, AAL makes it sound cool, but JP is not Tosin and I hope it stays this way.

Haken uses 8 string guitars and IMO they really know how to use them in an interesting way, not just chugging.

Agreed! They're really low passages a VERY heavy, but in very interesting ways, plus they don't just stick in the lower register all the time.

Yeah, the 8-string can also be used to add texture, not just chuggah-chuggah.

B.Lee

[darkshade]

No.  Haken is already making a dent in touring.  They will get a bump from touring with MP.   As much as I'd love seeing this Haken is more established in this part of their career to open.

How did you feel about Dream Theater opening for Iron Maiden in 2010?

Bands don't "make it" like they used to, what with everyone and their mom promoting their mediocre music online, they need as much exposure as they can get. Even an older band like DT got extremely lucky in the early 90s. Don't the members of Haken still hold down day jobs? I know a few bands that still work another job to make ends meet, or quit altogether because "making it" in music where it can be your career is tougher now more than ever because of so much competition and trying to stick out from the masses of other acts out there, and keeping the attention of people who have so many choices of entertainment these days, it is overwhelming.

[Anguyen92]

I mean if a relatively smaller (but established and known in their circles) band gets a chance to open for a very established band in their genre, I say they should take that chance.  To go back to Darkshade's point of DT opening for Maiden, despite DT being very established at that point.  You don't say no to opening for Iron Maiden in arenas/amphitheaters in the states even though you typically play in front of 2,000-3,000 people and can make a good living off of that.  Bands like Alter Bridge and Sevendust and Sixx: A.M.  They are certainly established and relatively known in the active rock radio format, and make decent money off touring (despite their relative hurdles/challenges that they go through) doing their own shows.  However, if they get the chance to open for a co-headlining bill with a combination of like Shinedown, Breaking Benjamin, Five Finger Death Punch, A7X, etc., they'll certainly take it.

I see nothing wrong with a band like Haken opening for Dream Theater on either side of the Atlantic and I do believe they would be better for it if the opportunity arises.

[Ninjabait]

No.  Haken is already making a dent in touring.  They will get a bump from touring with MP.   As much as I'd love seeing this Haken is more established in this part of their career to open.

How did you feel about Dream Theater opening for Iron Maiden in 2010?

Bands don't "make it" like they used to, what with everyone and their mom promoting their mediocre music online, they need as much exposure as they can get. Even an older band like DT got extremely lucky in the early 90s. Don't the members of Haken still hold down day jobs? I know a few bands that still work another job to make ends meet, or quit altogether because "making it" in music where it can be your career is tougher now more than ever because of so much competition and trying to stick out from the masses of other acts out there, and keeping the attention of people who have so many choices of entertainment these days, it is overwhelming.

Yes, this is entirely accurate. Rick Beato did an interview with Misha Mansoor and he basically said that he profits very little from touring and album sales. Both of those things eat up a lot of your time and cost truckloads of money. I don't think it's been possible to make a living solely by playing live and recording music. Most of the musicians I knew from music school have done one of the following:

-Gotten teaching gigs (still probably the most consistent way to earn money in music)
-Session work (not as viable now with synthesizers being as good as they are)
-Producing for rappers/whatever or songwriting gigs
-Multiple gigs (I knew people who played in multiple orchestras for money)
-Steady orchestral gigs or choral gigs
-Accompaniment gigs for some pianists
-Day jobs or just putting music as a hobby
-Commercials

Once you hit a certain point you can get sponsorships. YouTube and Patreon have proven to be pretty decent ways to earn money. Also, merch merch merch. You make music to make merch to sell to make music.

But yeah, the barrier to making music has never been lower, and the barrier to making music successfully has never been higher. This isn't anything new, piano went through this HARD over the past century. The upright and eventually electronic piano made it so much easier to buy a piano, and the surplus of teachers made it easy to get lessons. So the standards of playing raised and raised until now it's incredibly difficult to be a concert pianist unless you started grinding at age like 8. Music is the most oversaturated labor market on the planet and that will not change.

[gzarruk]

Music is the most oversaturated labor market on the planet and that will not change.

...untill the NOMACS take over

[The Presence of Frenemies]

The last Adagio album was done entirely on 8-string and worked well. There was plenty of room for the bass and what not. There were a few djenty sections but they were tasteful and contrasted with the other stuff nicely. No reason DT couldn't use the 8-string just as well. No guarantees it would work, but it certainly could.

[pg1067]

Perhaps a dumb question, but why are we assuming that an 8-string guitar would be strung with two strings tuned below the low-E on a standard 6-string guitar?  Why not string it, e.g., BEADGBEA?

[Adami]

Perhaps a dumb question, but why are we assuming that an 8-string guitar would be strung with two strings tuned below the low-E on a standard 6-string guitar?  Why not string it, e.g., BEADGBEA?

Same reason we assume a 7 string isn't tuned EADGBEA. DT have generally used things as they are intended.

[pg1067]

Perhaps a dumb question, but why are we assuming that an 8-string guitar would be strung with two strings tuned below the low-E on a standard 6-string guitar?  Why not string it, e.g., BEADGBEA?

Same reason we assume a 7 string isn't tuned EADGBEA. DT have generally used things as they are intended.

Well...wait a minute.  "as intended"?  As intended by whom?  The limited amount of googling I did on the subject indicated plenty of folks who have expanded in both directions.

By the way, I play a 5-string bass tuned EADGC, so....

[Adami]

The norm is a 7 string being BEADGBE and so forth.

The fact that some people do it differently doesn't impact that that's how it's intended. If you go to a guitar store, every single 7 string will be in that tuning, unless a customer had gone to change it. Every 8 string will be that with a low F#. If you buy them directly from a manufacturer and don't ask them to change anything, those are the tunings they come in.


Edit: Does that mean they SHOULD be like that? Hell no. I use mostly alternate tunings myself. Doesn't change that fact that DT, generally, keeps things as intended.

As rarely as Petrucci plays a 7 string, if he really wanted that extra high string, he could have had that by now.

[bosk1]

As much as JP regularly experiments with and plays in alternative tunings, I think it's kind of silly to assume any given tuning on the new album, no matter how many strings are involved.  I also think it is equally silly to react strongly against the possibility of him using an 8-string before we've heard even a note of either any of the new material or him playing an 8-string in general.

[pg1067]

I think it's kind of silly to assume any given tuning on the new album, no matter how many strings are involved.

Yup...especially when one of the videos from the rehearsal studio included commentary that he had X different guitars, each of which had a different tuning.''

I also think it is equally silly to react strongly against the possibility of him using an 8-string before we've heard even a note of either any of the new material or him playing an 8-string in general.

And even more silly to react strongly based on an assumption.

[Skeever]

As much as JP regularly experiments with and plays in alternative tunings, I think it's kind of silly to assume any given tuning on the new album, no matter how many strings are involved.  I also think it is equally silly to react strongly against the possibility of him using an 8-string before we've heard even a note of either any of the new material or him playing an 8-string in general.

I would say he experiments with a lot of dropped tunings but I didn't think he got into many alternate tunnings. Could be wrong though? Would be cool to hear him play in some open tunings and such.

[TH1RT3EN]

Ok, AAL makes it sound cool, but JP is not Tosin and I hope it stays this way.

"in a controversial move by progressive metal band Dream Theater, guitarist John Petrucci announces plans to become Tosin"

Still better than that "chocolate cake" thing from DT12

[mikeyd23]

As much as JP regularly experiments with and plays in alternative tunings, I think it's kind of silly to assume any given tuning on the new album, no matter how many strings are involved.  I also think it is equally silly to react strongly against the possibility of him using an 8-string before we've heard even a note of either any of the new material or him playing an 8-string in general.

I would say he experiments with a lot of dropped tunings but I didn't think he got into many alternate tunnings. Could be wrong though? Would be cool to hear him play in some open tunings and such.

He really doesn't do a lot of alternate tunings. Most of his stuff is standard, drop D, seven string standard, or a couple where the guitar is tuned down to C standard or drop C.

[Samsara]

As much as JP regularly experiments with and plays in alternative tunings, I think it's kind of silly to assume any given tuning on the new album, no matter how many strings are involved.  I also think it is equally silly to react strongly against the possibility of him using an 8-string before we've heard even a note of either any of the new material or him playing an 8-string in general.

It's weird. My reaction to JP potentially using an 8-string was really positive. More of "wow, cool, that'd be different." This is the first DT record since ADToE that I am actually looking forward to. I think after JP got TA out of his system, it appears this is a whole band effort, and hell, even JLB was in on the writing sessions. It'll be nice to hear what they've all come up with, as a band, even if the main ideas likely started with JP and JR, of course.

[RMGadelha]

Sorry if I'm out of the loop and it has been mentioned already, but have they started tracking yet? The burger party and the treasure hunt is the last thing I've read about.

[gzarruk]

Sorry if I'm out of the loop and it has been mentioned already, but have they started tracking yet? The burger party and the treasure hunt is the last thing I've read about.

I suppose they already started, but haven't posted anything about it. If not, they should start very soon.

[CodyWanKenobi]

As much as JP regularly experiments with and plays in alternative tunings, I think it's kind of silly to assume any given tuning on the new album, no matter how many strings are involved.  I also think it is equally silly to react strongly against the possibility of him using an 8-string before we've heard even a note of either any of the new material or him playing an 8-string in general.

I would say he experiments with a lot of dropped tunings but I didn't think he got into many alternate tunnings. Could be wrong though? Would be cool to hear him play in some open tunings and such.

He really doesn't do a lot of alternate tunings. Most of his stuff is standard, drop D, seven string standard, or a couple where the guitar is tuned down to C standard or drop C.

To my knowledge, he's only used (with some examples):

E standard (most songs)
D standard (Forsaken)
E flat standard (I think SOC and TROAE)
Drop D (Home, ONW)
C standard (ANTR)
A standard (These Walls)
A sharp standard (Panic Attack, Wither)
7 string standard (most 7 string songs)
7 string down a whole step (Illumination Theory)

It's possible I missed one or two, but I think I covered it. So mostly, he uses variations of the 6 and 7 string standard tunings, with the occasional drop tuning. But he doesn't use do any crazy alternate tunings like the Periphery guys or Mark Tremonti. I think it could be extremely interesting though if he tried. I use a couple of open tunings, which are extremely fun, and also very expansive for my writing. If I start to get writers block, grabbing a guitar in a different tuning really helps. In a way, it almost feels like picking up a different instrument which is fresh and exciting.

[Robo4900]

Still better than that "chocolate cake" thing from DT12

I thought "Chocolate cake" was actually a pretty good way of explaining what he meant, and it made for a fun, goofy little moment in the behind the scenes thing...

As much as JP regularly experiments with and plays in alternative tunings, I think it's kind of silly to assume any given tuning on the new album, no matter how many strings are involved.  I also think it is equally silly to react strongly against the possibility of him using an 8-string before we've heard even a note of either any of the new material or him playing an 8-string in general.

It's weird. My reaction to JP potentially using an 8-string was really positive. More of "wow, cool, that'd be different." This is the first DT record since ADToE that I am actually looking forward to. I think after JP got TA out of his system, it appears this is a whole band effort, and hell, even JLB was in on the writing sessions. It'll be nice to hear what they've all come up with, as a band, even if the main ideas likely started with JP and JR, of course.

If I'd heard JP might be using an 8-string before I started listening to Haken a couple of years ago, I would be massively hesitant... JP did wonders with 7-strings back when those were new, so I would have still been on board, but as I say, I'd be hesitant.
After having heard Haken show "No no, this is how you use an 8-string", I honestly would be totally on-board with JP using an 8-string.

Perhaps a dumb question, but why are we assuming that an 8-string guitar would be strung with two strings tuned below the low-E on a standard 6-string guitar?  Why not string it, e.g., BEADGBEA?

Back when Steve Vai was experimenting to create the modern electric 7-string guitar, his early prototypes used EADGBEA tuning. Problem is, the high string was so high, and thus had to be so thin and so tightly-wound, it would snap constantly and easily, and ultimately didn't really give much useful benefit.