"Classic" album appreciation thread - the '80s

[pg1067]

I absolutely remember the Ratt/BJ tour, and while I would've loved to have seen BJ again, I thought Ratt blew big chunks.

You're right Tim.  Ratt was never a good live band cause they were always blowing chunks after partying too hard.

In the month or so leading up to my first concert (Ozzy Osbourne on the Bark at the Moon tour in April 1984), my friends and I had heard Motley Crue would be opening and were really excited about that.  We then heard that Crue had dropped off and would be replaced by Ratt.  We were still pretty excited about that.  That was probably the last time I felt any positive emotion for Ratt (although I did buy Invasion of Your Privacy for reasons I can't now recall).

[eric42434224]

I absolutely remember the Ratt/BJ tour, and while I would've loved to have seen BJ again, I thought Ratt blew big chunks.

You're right Tim.  Ratt was never a good live band cause they were always blowing chunks after partying too hard.

Funnier is Ratts drum tech was named Chunks.

[Cool Chris]

Bon Jovi and Europe stood the test of time imo, and that's it.

Europe has stood the test of time? Maybe a regional thing? I couldn't name a song other than The Final Countdown, And that only lives on cause every 80s rock cover band has it in their repertoire.

[Stadler]

Bon Jovi and Europe stood the test of time imo, and that's it.

Europe has stood the test of time? Maybe a regional thing? I couldn't name a song other than The Final Countdown, And that only lives on cause every 80s rock cover band has it in their repertoire.

And it had a limited run in a number of commercials not long ago, at least up here in the Northeast.

I dunno; not bagging on Europe, but they weren't that huge in my crowd the first time.   Then again, I hung with a crowd that liked heavier metal or prog, so what do I know.

[MoraWintersoul]

Bon Jovi and Europe stood the test of time imo, and that's it.

Europe has stood the test of time? Maybe a regional thing?

Europe thing! People like them a little more over here. Obviously not a lot of hits are still in rotation, but their albums have always been strong (with a few misses), their comeback albums have been well received, and obviously Norum is one of the better guitarists of the 80's and ends up on those lists all the time.

[King Postwhore]

The last few Europe albums are fantastic Chris.  Stream them.

[bosk1]

The last few Europe albums are fantastic Chris.  Stream them.

I didn't know they had more than one, let alone enough where you could say "the last few." 

[hefdaddy42]

I liked "Open Your Heart" and "Superstitious" from Out of This World (the follow-up album to The Final Countdown), but that's about it for me.

[KevShmev]

This is where I jump and repeat that the first time I heard Dream Theater, I thought they sounded like a ballsier, meatier version of Europe - operatic vocals, similar use of keys, etc.  Heck, listen to the lead guitar at the beginning of Let the Good Times Rock and tell me that doesn't sound like something JP would have played at one point.

[King Postwhore]

The last few Europe albums are fantastic Chris.  Stream them.

I didn't know they had more than one, let alone enough where you could say "the last few." 

They do bosk1 man, they do.

Bag of Bones (2012)
War of Kings (2015)
Walk the Earth (2017)

[pg1067]

This is where I jump and repeat that the first time I heard Dream Theater, I thought they sounded like a ballsier, meatier version of Europe - operatic vocals, similar use of keys, etc.  Heck, listen to the lead guitar at the beginning of Let the Good Times Rock and tell me that doesn't sound like something JP would have played at one point.

I've never heard that song before today, but yeah, I suppose, but it was a pretty darn generic sounding lead (especially the last few bent notes).

[Lowdz]

I love Europe. Pretty much everything from Stormwind has been quality.

Prisoners In Paradise made my top 50.

The last two of the comeback albums have been excellent.

[HOF]

Frontiers sucks

Damn...I get that it's not on the same level as Escape, but "sucks" is pretty harsh.  The well-known tracks are solid, and Edge of the Blade and Rubicon are GREAT "deep cuts."

By the way, Neal Schon in the pre-Perry days had one hell of an epic afro!

*Late night reading random old threads*

Yes to all of this, but Frontiers was somewhat harmed as an album by the band/label (not sure which) opting to leave off Only the Young and Ask the Lonely so they could appear on movie soundtracks. A case of marketing trumping art, as that album is much much stronger if you swap those two in for, say, Chain Reaction and Backtalk (one of the worst Journey songs probably).

Rubicon is a really really fun track though, as is the title track. I also really like Only Solutions, which I'm not sure if it was written for that album originally or something they came up with independently for Tron. All in all, the material on and around Frontiers was really pretty great IMO.

[pg1067]

Frontiers was somewhat harmed as an album by the band/label (not sure which) opting to leave off Only the Young and Ask the Lonely so they could appear on movie soundtracks. A case of marketing trumping art, as that album is much much stronger if you swap those two in for, say, Chain Reaction and Backtalk (one of the worst Journey songs probably).

I didn't know the background of those songs.  However, I really like Chain Reaction and don't think Back Talk is nearly that bad.  Only the Young is only ok, and Ask the Lonely is a little better, but not much.

[Stadler]

Not saying this to argue, but just provide counter point....  "Only The Young" is a top 10 Journey song for me, and Ask The Lonely is probably in the top 15. 

[TAC]

So I was literally talking with someone and Journey came up. We were talking music, and he mentions that Steve Smith was a great drummer, and that he was really underrated. I told him that my theory is that he is underrated because of his work with Journey.

[HOF]

Not saying this to argue, but just provide counter point....  "Only The Young" is a top 10 Journey song for me, and Ask The Lonely is probably in the top 15. 

Yeah, I think many Journey fans rate Only the Young as one of their best songs, and I also think Ask The Lonely is also generally well-thought of. I love both a ton. Also, part of the discussion I quoted from  was Kattelox/Walrus had said he didn't like the heavier/darker tone of Frontiers. Adding those two to the mix would have brought the album a little more in like with their previous albums probably.

So I was literally talking with someone and Journey came up. We were talking music, and he mentions that Steve Smith was a great drummer, and that he was really underrated. I told him that my theory is that he is underrated because of his work with Journey.

Yeah, I think that's probably accurate. He did bring a lot of musicality to the Journey drum chair, but he wasn't playing in an especially flashy or showy way in Journey, and I doubt many people have heard or seen him playing in his jazz/fusion contexts.

[bosk1]

Frontiers was somewhat harmed as an album by the band/label (not sure which) opting to leave off Only the Young and Ask the Lonely so they could appear on movie soundtracks. A case of marketing trumping art, as that album is much much stronger if you swap those two in for, say, Chain Reaction and Backtalk (one of the worst Journey songs probably).

I didn't know the background of those songs.  However, I really like Chain Reaction and don't think Back Talk is nearly that bad.  Only the Young is only ok, and Ask the Lonely is a little better, but not much.

I pretty much agree.  I like Chain Reaction A LOT.  It's been a long time since I listened to the album, and as a result, I don't really recall Back Talk.  I just don't remember it.  But there isn't really a song on the album that I disliked either.  To me, Escape and Frontiers captured the band at a time when their output was right up my alley, and there isn't really a song I dislike on either album. 

As for the other two songs mentioned, I'm not sure I would have thought any more highly of Frontiers if they were included.  As I said, I already think very highly of that album.  But I didn't have either of those two soundtracks, and those songs didn't even register on my radar.  I really only became aware of them later because of their inclusion in live sets and on compilations, and I can't say that I am even very familiar with the studio versions.  Live, they are great, fun songs.  But to me, they both feel more in line with the overly pop sound of a lot of Raised on Radio that I didn't much care for, so even if I had heard the studio versions at the time, which would not have had the live energy, I doubt they would have moved the needle for me.

So I was literally talking with someone and Journey came up. We were talking music, and he mentions that Steve Smith was a great drummer, and that he was really underrated. I told him that my theory is that he is underrated because of his work with Journey.

That's an interesting theory.  I'm not sure how I feel about it.  I think there is probably a perception that, because Journey was a pop band, that the drummer is simple and straightforward, and so Smith didn't get to fully utilize his capabilities while in the band.  And while there might be a grain of truth in that, I think it misses the mark.  Yeah, it may be true that he couldn't go bananas in Open Arms.  But that's kinda the point--the songs themselves don't call for that, and he was a master at playing for the song and doing what the song called for.  But more than that, there is a LOT of nuance and complexity in his drumming for Journey.  Smith was just one of those guys that could take complicated, and make it sound simple and straightforward.  And I think THAT, more than anything, is the primary reason he may not get his due. 

[TAC]

So I was literally talking with someone and Journey came up. We were talking music, and he mentions that Steve Smith was a great drummer, and that he was really underrated. I told him that my theory is that he is underrated because of his work with Journey.

That's an interesting theory.  I'm not sure how I feel about it.  I think there is probably a perception that, because Journey was a pop band, that the drummer is simple and straightforward, and so Smith didn't get to fully utilize his capabilities while in the band.  And while there might be a grain of truth in that, I think it misses the mark.  Yeah, it may be true that he couldn't go bananas in Open Arms.  But that's kinda the point--the songs themselves don't call for that, and he was a master at playing for the song and doing what the song called for.  But more than that, there is a LOT of nuance and complexity in his drumming for Journey.  Smith was just one of those guys that could take complicated, and make it sound simple and straightforward.  And I think THAT, more than anything, is the primary reason he may not get his due.

I've just never listened to Journey and thought Holy Shit this drummer is awesome. Again, Journey doesn't call for amazing drumming. I'm not saying he isn't good. But if all you had to judge him as a drummer was his work with Journey, he'd be just another guy.
I'm not railing or trying to be negative in any way.

[bosk1]

So I was literally talking with someone and Journey came up. We were talking music, and he mentions that Steve Smith was a great drummer, and that he was really underrated. I told him that my theory is that he is underrated because of his work with Journey.

That's an interesting theory.  I'm not sure how I feel about it.  I think there is probably a perception that, because Journey was a pop band, that the drummer is simple and straightforward, and so Smith didn't get to fully utilize his capabilities while in the band.  And while there might be a grain of truth in that, I think it misses the mark.  Yeah, it may be true that he couldn't go bananas in Open Arms.  But that's kinda the point--the songs themselves don't call for that, and he was a master at playing for the song and doing what the song called for.  But more than that, there is a LOT of nuance and complexity in his drumming for Journey.  Smith was just one of those guys that could take complicated, and make it sound simple and straightforward.  And I think THAT, more than anything, is the primary reason he may not get his due.

I've just never listened to Journey and thought Holy Shit this drummer is awesome. Again, Journey doesn't call for amazing drumming. I'm not saying he isn't good. But if all you had to judge him as a drummer was his work with Journey, he'd be just another guy.
I'm not railing or trying to be negative in any way.

I agree on the bolded, and that's kind of my point.  The drum parts aren't flashy, and they don't stand out as being particularly amazing.  But when you dig a little deeper, a lot of what he does is pretty amazing, just not on a surface level.  In a similar vein, I never listened to Toto and thought, "Wow!  What an amazing drummer Jeff Porcaro is!"  But he is pretty revered because there is actually a lot of subtle nuance and complexity to what he does, even if it sounds on the surface like "standard pop drumming." 

And I get that you aren't trying to be negative.  I don't take it as negative.  I'm just presenting an opposing view.

[TAC]

So I was literally talking with someone and Journey came up. We were talking music, and he mentions that Steve Smith was a great drummer, and that he was really underrated. I told him that my theory is that he is underrated because of his work with Journey.

That's an interesting theory.  I'm not sure how I feel about it.  I think there is probably a perception that, because Journey was a pop band, that the drummer is simple and straightforward, and so Smith didn't get to fully utilize his capabilities while in the band.  And while there might be a grain of truth in that, I think it misses the mark.  Yeah, it may be true that he couldn't go bananas in Open Arms.  But that's kinda the point--the songs themselves don't call for that, and he was a master at playing for the song and doing what the song called for.  But more than that, there is a LOT of nuance and complexity in his drumming for Journey.  Smith was just one of those guys that could take complicated, and make it sound simple and straightforward.  And I think THAT, more than anything, is the primary reason he may not get his due.

I've just never listened to Journey and thought Holy Shit this drummer is awesome. Again, Journey doesn't call for amazing drumming. I'm not saying he isn't good. But if all you had to judge him as a drummer was his work with Journey, he'd be just another guy.
I'm not railing or trying to be negative in any way.

I agree on the bolded, and that's kind of my point.  The drum parts aren't flashy, and they don't stand out as being particularly amazing.  But when you dig a little deeper, a lot of what he does is pretty amazing, just not on a surface level.  In a similar vein, I never listened to Toto and thought, "Wow!  What an amazing drummer Jeff Porcaro is!"  But he is pretty revered because there is actually a lot of subtle nuance and complexity to what he does, even if it sounds on the surface like "standard pop drumming." 

And I get that you aren't trying to be negative.  I don't take it as negative.  I'm just presenting an opposing view.

No, that's my point!

[HOF]

Frontiers was somewhat harmed as an album by the band/label (not sure which) opting to leave off Only the Young and Ask the Lonely so they could appear on movie soundtracks. A case of marketing trumping art, as that album is much much stronger if you swap those two in for, say, Chain Reaction and Backtalk (one of the worst Journey songs probably).

I didn't know the background of those songs.  However, I really like Chain Reaction and don't think Back Talk is nearly that bad.  Only the Young is only ok, and Ask the Lonely is a little better, but not much.

I pretty much agree.  I like Chain Reaction A LOT.  It's been a long time since I listened to the album, and as a result, I don't really recall Back Talk.  I just don't remember it.  But there isn't really a song on the album that I disliked either.  To me, Escape and Frontiers captured the band at a time when their output was right up my alley, and there isn't really a song I dislike on either album. 

As for the other two songs mentioned, I'm not sure I would have thought any more highly of Frontiers if they were included.  As I said, I already think very highly of that album.  But I didn't have either of those two soundtracks, and those songs didn't even register on my radar.  I really only became aware of them later because of their inclusion in live sets and on compilations, and I can't say that I am even very familiar with the studio versions.  Live, they are great, fun songs.  But to me, they both feel more in line with the overly pop sound of a lot of Raised on Radio that I didn't much care for, so even if I had heard the studio versions at the time, which would not have had the live energy, I doubt they would have moved the needle for me.

I came to know Only The Young and Ask The Lonely first via the Time 3 box set before I ever heard the Frontiers album, so I was already a big fan of both before hearing most of Frontiers. As it is, Frontiers is still probably my second favorite Journey album, and my copy of the CD has Only the Young, Ask The Lonely, and Only Solitions included, so all is right with the world now!

Also, I once won a free t-shirt from a radio station call-in contest because I knew which movie soundtrack Only The Young appeared on (only because I read the booklet in that box set pretty thoroughly!).

[HOF]

On the topic of Steve Smith the drummer, there is a really great drum solo on Captured that shows off Smith's chops, though likely the average non-Journey rock fan probably wouldn't have heard that.

Something else cool about that track is there's a bass/drum duet before the drum solo where Ross Valorie plays the theme from Carry On Wayward Son, which I can only assume is a nod to the whole "Kansas ripped off I'm Gonna Leave You" thing.

[TAC]

I have Captured. I haven't listened to it in a long time.

[HOF]

I have Captured. I haven't listened to it in a long time.

The solo is tacked onto La Do Da. I don't ordinarily buy live albums, but I got this one partly because the cover art is really cool.

[TAC]

I bought the CD in the cheapo bin for like $4.99 25 years ago. Been YEARS since I've listened.

I'm actually a pretty big Aynsley Dunbar fan.

[Volante99]

I saw Stephen Pearcy post a #unmask2020 or something like that and getting all kinds of flack. Now he says his account was "hacked".

I don't want to get too political here but what a goon. With the commercial Ratt has been getting good momentum for the first time in 30 years and he fumbles the ball with THAT?

[TAC]

Wow, this is weird. I mentioned I was talking to a coworker today and he brought up Steve Smith. He also brought up Ratt and their Round And Round commercial and how they've become popular again.

[KevShmev]

I might've already said it in this thread, but the last 80 seconds of Journey's Send Her My Love is freaking awesome.

[pg1067]

So I was literally talking with someone and Journey came up. We were talking music, and he mentions that Steve Smith was a great drummer, and that he was really underrated. I told him that my theory is that he is underrated because of his work with Journey.

I agree and think the same could also be said of Neal Schon.  Remember when Dio put together the "Hear 'n' Aid" project as a hard rock/metal version of USA for Africa and "We Are the World"?  The project released a single -- the song "Stars" -- and an album that included Stars and a bunch of other recordings that were "donated" by artists who couldn't be part of "Stars" (mostly live versions of songs, including Rush's Distant Early Warning and The Zoo by Scorpions).  The project also released a home video, which I still own on the original VHS, and which I don't think has ever been re-released on a digital format (but I think it's on YouTube).**  There's a fairly significant amount of commentary about how Neal Schon's soloing for "Stars" blew everyone there away, and my recollection of the public reaction at the time was the same.  Everyone thought of Neal as that guy from Journey, the band that does love ballads, and didn't have a lot of knowledge that he could shred and had come from a jazz/fusion background.

** - Wendy Dio has said more than once since RJD died that she wants to re-release "Stars" (and the rest of the album) on CD and DVD with "loads of outtakes," but it obviously hasn't happened yet.

But there isn't really a song on the album that I disliked either.  To me, Escape and Frontiers captured the band at a time when their output was right up my alley, and there isn't really a song I dislike on either album. 

As for the other two songs mentioned, I'm not sure I would have thought any more highly of Frontiers if they were included.  As I said, I already think very highly of that album.  But I didn't have either of those two soundtracks, and those songs didn't even register on my radar. . . .  But to me, they both feel more in line with the overly pop sound of a lot of Raised on Radio that I didn't much care for

I couldn't have said any of this any better.

[TAC]

So I was literally talking with someone and Journey came up. We were talking music, and he mentions that Steve Smith was a great drummer, and that he was really underrated. I told him that my theory is that he is underrated because of his work with Journey.

I agree and think the same could also be said of Neal Schon.  Remember when Dio put together the "Hear 'n' Aid" project as a hard rock/metal version of USA for Africa and "We Are the World"?  The project released a single -- the song "Stars" -- and an album that included Stars and a bunch of other recordings that were "donated" by artists who couldn't be part of "Stars" (mostly live versions of songs, including Rush's Distant Early Warning and The Zoo by Scorpions).  The project also released a home video, which I still own on the original VHS, and which I don't think has ever been re-released on a digital format (but I think it's on YouTube).**  There's a fairly significant amount of commentary about how Neal Schon's soloing for "Stars" blew everyone there away, and my recollection of the public reaction at the time was the same.  Everyone thought of Neal as that guy from Journey, the band that does love ballads, and didn't have a lot of knowledge that he could shred and had come from a jazz/fusion background.

I have the full length vinyl of Hear n Aid up in my attic.

I hear you on Schon. I think his solos stand out a bit more than Smith's drumming. But I find it ironic that while they are both known for being in Journey, it does cause you to overlook how talented they might actually be.

[wolfking]

I might've already said it in this thread, but the last 80 seconds of Journey's Send Her My Love is freaking awesome.

One of Schon's finest moments that whole solo and outro.

[TAC]

I'm feeling that way too.





#seewhatididthere

[wolfking]

Your genius never ceases to amaze me.

[TAC]