Female Drummers?

[TAC]

Edit.

[DTA]

Meytal may be good at what she does, but she plays pretty basic songs and is more interested in showing off her body than any real technique.

  Really?  DT, Tool, Rush, and A7X are "basic" on drums?  And, other than sometime wearing a tank top, I think she dresses fairly conservatively.  I don't understand your comment.

Nor do I.  Tom Sawyer is so difficult that, even at the very end of his career, Neil Peart said it was difficult to play correctly.  It looks to me like the only DT song she's done is PMU, which might not be DT's most difficult song, but it's hardly "basic."  And I wonder if Mike Portnoy was just "showing off [his] body" when he wore shorts and a tank top or his leotard.

I don't really get the point of making a career out of note-for-note covers of other artists' material, but she probably does pretty well for herself, so....

I'm no professional but have been playing drums for 20+ years and Tom Sawyer is not difficult in any way. Maybe at the end of a 3 hour show it's tiring, but there is nothing in it that is not playable by anyone with a degree of experience. Pull Me Under is elementary from a drumming standpoint. These are both great drum parts and very fun to play, but let's not shit ourselves. Meytal is selling sex appeal by playing songs with a low threshold for technique/ability. If I was a hot girl drummer I'd do it to and I don't blame her or dislike her in any way (she's entertaining to watch which is entirely the point of her videos), but Anika Nilles shows some intensely good technique and creativity and has a small fraction of the followers because she makes the drumming the focus rather than her body. Mike Portnoy didn't have a youtube channel dedicated to playing simple songs while topless so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Meytal may be good at what she does, but she plays pretty basic songs and is more interested in showing off her body than any real technique.

  Really?  DT, Tool, Rush, and A7X are "basic" on drums?  And, other than sometime wearing a tank top, I think she dresses fairly conservatively.  I don't understand your comment.

Nor do I.  Tom Sawyer is so difficult that, even at the very end of his career, Neil Peart said it was difficult to play correctly.  It looks to me like the only DT song she's done is PMU, which might not be DT's most difficult song, but it's hardly "basic."  And I wonder if Mike Portnoy was just "showing off [his] body" when he wore shorts and a tank top or his leotard.

I don't really get the point of making a career out of note-for-note covers of other artists' material, but she probably does pretty well for herself, so....

I'm no professional but have been playing drums for 20+ years and Tom Sawyer is not difficult in any way. Maybe at the end of a 3 hour show it's tiring, but there is nothing in it that is not playable by anyone with a degree of experience. Pull Me Under is elementary from a drumming standpoint. These are both great drum parts and very fun to play, but let's not shit ourselves. Meytal is selling sex appeal by playing songs with a low threshold for technique/ability. If I was a hot girl drummer I'd do it to and I don't blame her or dislike her in any way (she's entertaining to watch which is entirely the point of her videos), but Anika Nilles shows some intensely good technique and creativity and has a small fraction of the followers because she makes the drumming the focus rather than her body. Mike Portnoy didn't have a youtube channel dedicated to playing simple songs while topless so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

I agree in alot of ways, I have students that plays Tom Sawyer in various degrees of course but some does it really well. I of course not saying anything negative about Tom Sawyer or Neil Peart, there's reasons why so many wanna study his drumming or Ringo Starr for that matter.

I hate rating drummers whatever gender but as a drummer I look for certain qualities for me to consider them special or above standard (btw that has nothing to do with their music or whatever band they're in, it's purely from a technical and creative POV). I have nothing against Meytal whatsoever but her playing doesn't do anything for me atleast.

[PetFish]

Haruna from Lovebites
Shadowmaker:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3wyUbfl6TY
The Crusade:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueKyQ4xI-mY

Marina (Bozzio) from Aldious
We Are:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfkJT0rra-8
Utopia:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlwv99WlmrM

Akane Hirose from BAND-MAID
Choose Me:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZIJ2vFxu9Y
Start Over:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL5sRrSECQ0

[Adami]

Haruna from Lovebites
Shadowmaker:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3wyUbfl6TY
The Crusade:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueKyQ4xI-mY

Marina (Bozzio) from Aldious
We Are:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfkJT0rra-8
Utopia:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlwv99WlmrM

Akane Hirose from BAND-MAID
Choose Me:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZIJ2vFxu9Y
Start Over:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL5sRrSECQ0

Well, those are definitely female drummers. Nothing special, but they do fit the thread title.

Also I agree with the less than positive comments on Meytal. She's a fine drummer, but her "fame" is definitely due to her gender and looks. If a guy played exactly as she does, no one would pay any attention at all.

[Stadler]

Edit.

I don't know what you wrote, and edited, but I feel like it is what I'm thinking.



About Meytal Cohen, maybe I'm just past that age that looks are enough to carry someone, but not really impressed on any of the points.   Not a drummer that makes me go "Whoa!", but also not so beautiful that I go "Whoa!" (Again, not that that's important in the grand scheme of things, but if her gig is "the hot impressive drummer", well then, you should probably be have to be a) hot, and b) an impressive drummer.) 

[bosk1]

I'm no professional but have been playing drums for 20+ years...

Giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that is true, I think maybe the issue for you is that you've simply lost perspective then.  Yeah, maybe for a drummer of several years, Tom Sawyer and Pull Me Under aren't that hard.  But they are still far from basic.  And I think that, for pretty much ANY drummer on YouTube, 20-year musicians aren't their target audience.  I don't think anyhow who has been playing their instrument for 20+ years is going to be overly entertained by a youngster's covers/instructional videos.

[Cruithne]

I'm no professional but have been playing drums for 20+ years and Tom Sawyer is not difficult in any way.

"It's always difficult to play right and any time I do play it right I feel good".

Neil Peart (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovp2MmdhD_M)

I'm assuming that guy knows what he's talking about.

[pg1067]

I'm no professional but have been playing drums for 20+ years and Tom Sawyer is not difficult in any way.

"It's always difficult to play right and any time I do play it right I feel good".

Neil Peart (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovp2MmdhD_M)

I'm assuming that guy knows what he's talking about.

Yeah...I'm going to take the word of the guy who created the part.

As far as Meytal, if her intent is to do the "sex appeal sells," then she should consult with the sickeningly gaunt east Asian girl in the video that "MrBoom_shack-a-lack" posted about wardrobe choices.

[DTA]

I'm no professional but have been playing drums for 20+ years...

Giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that is true, I think maybe the issue for you is that you've simply lost perspective then.  Yeah, maybe for a drummer of several years, Tom Sawyer and Pull Me Under aren't that hard.  But they are still far from basic.  And I think that, for pretty much ANY drummer on YouTube, 20-year musicians aren't their target audience.  I don't think anyhow who has been playing their instrument for 20+ years is going to be overly entertained by a youngster's covers/instructional videos.

I don't even remember my point but I'm going to try and break down my gripe. But I think what I'm getting at is that Anika Nilles has 100k followers and is legit a creative, technical, excellent drummer who really pushes herself and shows great technique. But she plays in hoodies and focuses her camera work on the drumming. Meytal has 1.3m followers and plays easy, basic songs and focuses the camera work on her face/body. I enjoy both of their videos but Anika blows Meytal away and has a fraction of the followers probably because she doesn't sexualize her videos.

And Pull Me Under is incredibly basic. The only possibly challenging part for anyone who's been playing longer than a few years is the fill leading into the last chorus and even that is super-basic once you've figured out how to do those particular patterns between hands and feet.

[DTA]

I'm no professional but have been playing drums for 20+ years and Tom Sawyer is not difficult in any way.

"It's always difficult to play right and any time I do play it right I feel good".

Neil Peart (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovp2MmdhD_M)

I'm assuming that guy knows what he's talking about.

There's a whole older generation of music fans who were told throughout their youth that Neil Peart is the pinnacle of drumming and everything he plays is the most challenging drum part ever conceived. Neil is absolutely excellent and made some iconic drum parts with Rush, but his drumming is quite honestly easy. His playing did get more challenging when he introduced electronics but there is really nothing in the entire Rush catalog that is not easy to play if you understand odd time signatures and have decent single-stroke roll speed.

Tom Sawyer may be difficult for Neil because:

A) It generally comes towards the end of a 3 hour show. Anything would be difficult after playing that long.

B) It contains Neil's most iconic drum parts and fills (especially after the guitar solo) and they're the type of fills that Rush fans expect to hear and air-drum, so they have to be PERFECT. It certainly may be a challenge to nail iconic parts and play them identical to the album after already playing a 3 hour show not to mention the mental pressure of needing to make sure they're perfect. Nobody gives a fuck if he changes the fills slightly to Where's My Thing? but they'll shit talk endlessly if he flubs those Tom Sawyer fills.

Neil's most challenging drum part is probably something like Mystic Rhythms where he's triggering multiple things throughout the song and keeping the tom/china pattern consistent throughout.

[pg1067]

I don't even remember my point but I'm going to try and break down my gripe. But I think what I'm getting at is that Anika Nilles has 100k followers and is legit a creative, technical, excellent drummer who really pushes herself and shows great technique. But she plays in hoodies and focuses her camera work on the drumming. Meytal has 1.3m followers and plays easy, basic songs and focuses the camera work on her face/body. I enjoy both of their videos but Anika blows Meytal away and has a fraction of the followers probably because she doesn't sexualize her videos.

I don't know anything about Annika Niles (other than what I learned from spending about 1 minute on your YT channel - see below), but if you think Meytal "sexualize[s] her videos," then I really have to wonder about your point of reference.  You also might want to consider that (a) Meytal might know better how to market herself to generate clicks (and, hence, subscribers), and (b) as far as I can tell, Meytal plays songs that are better known/more popular.

You also might want to dial down the "I play drums, so I know better" attitude.

[DTA]

I don't even remember my point but I'm going to try and break down my gripe. But I think what I'm getting at is that Anika Nilles has 100k followers and is legit a creative, technical, excellent drummer who really pushes herself and shows great technique. But she plays in hoodies and focuses her camera work on the drumming. Meytal has 1.3m followers and plays easy, basic songs and focuses the camera work on her face/body. I enjoy both of their videos but Anika blows Meytal away and has a fraction of the followers probably because she doesn't sexualize her videos.

I don't know anything about Annika Niles (other than what I learned from spending about 1 minute on your YT channel - see below), but if you think Meytal "sexualize her videos," then I really have to wonder about your point of reference.  You also might want to consider that (a) Meytal might know better how to market herself to generate clicks (and, hence, subscribers), and (b) as far as I can tell, Meytal plays songs that are better known/more popular.

You also might want to dial down the "I play drums, so I know better" attitude.

I spent a solid 10+ years of my drumming life analyzing every single nanosecond of Neil's and Mike's drumming. I've probably played through every Rush album from Farewell To Kings through Test For Echo 100 times each. I've certainly played along with every DT album from WDADU - TOT a hundred times or more. If there's anything I'm probably qualified to talk about in depth, it's that. I'm sure you're an expert in something?

[bosk1]

I would think that someone who must respect the craft of drumming so much as to dedicate 20+ years to it would have better things to do than slag other talented drummers you don't like simply because you are purportedly capable of drum parts that aren't quite so "basic." 

And re-watching the Pull Me Under video for reference, every last second of that video either showed her entire kit from one angle or the other to give the best shot of what her hands were doing, or was a closeup of her feet to show her pedal work.  So if what you are taking from her videos is that she "focuses the camera work on her face/body," I think that take says more about you than it does about her.  But if you prefer her in a hoodie, I'm sure you can leave that suggestion in the YT comments on one of her videos.

[King Postwhore]

She has a brand that she is promoting.   Nothing wrong with that. She's talented and making money in ways that is fairly new. Nothing wrong with that. We are in a new era of music promotion and how to make money.

[DTA]

I would think that someone who must respect the craft of drumming so much as to dedicate 20+ years to it would have better things to do than slag other talented drummers you don't like simply because you are purportedly capable of drum parts that aren't quite so "basic." 

And re-watching the Pull Me Under video for reference, every last second of that video either showed her entire kit from one angle or the other to give the best shot of what her hands were doing, or was a closeup of her feet to show her pedal work.  So if what you are taking from her videos is that she "focuses the camera work on her face/body," I think that take says more about you than it does about her.  But if you prefer her in a hoodie, I'm sure you can leave that suggestion in the YT comments on one of her videos.

I think I've probably said that I enjoy Meytal's videos about 3 times already in this thread.  I just wish Anika had more attention. What are you people actually reading?

EDIT: I watched a random video of Meytal's and you're right in that she didn't show too much of her body. I guess I'm a shithead in that regard. But seriously, check out Anika Nilles. She's excellent.

[bosk1]

Yeah, she's fantastic.  Part of me wishes she played a few more popular songs though to make it easier for me to get into the music.  But even though the songs themselves may not be my thing, she is certainly an outstanding drummer.  But just a vastly different style than Cohen, so I wouldn't really compare the two.  (and I also wouldn't accuse her of using sex appeal to sell her videos simply because I think I may have caught a glimpse of half an inch of cleavage and she moved her body rhythmically in her Pikalar video)

[pg1067]

I spent a solid 10+ years of my drumming life analyzing every single nanosecond....

ZZZZZZ....

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Senri Kawaguchi & Sarah Thawer Drum-Off

[lonestar]

Senri Kawaguchi & Sarah Thawer Drum-Off

Fucking sick 

[Ninjabait]

Here's a list of female drummers, courtesy of Wikipedia. It includes a few percussionists, and even then there's not that many. The only ones from bands I recognized are (not counting session percussionists):

Cindy Blackman (who played for Santana, Lenny Kravitz, and others)
Elaine Bradley (Neon Trees)
Terri Lynne Carrington (Herbie Hancock, Dizzy Gillespie, Stan Getz)
Regine Chasssagne (Arcade Fire)
Nao Kawakita (Maximum the Hormone)
Samantha Maloney (Hole, Motley Crue)
Jen Ledger and Lori Peters (Skillet)
Teresa Taylor (Butthole Surfers)
Meg White (The White Stripes)
Patty Schemel (Hole)

Which is not a lot. Shout out to Hole and Skillet for actually having two female drummers in their career, I guess. There's a couple more on YouTube (Meytal Cohen is the obvious first one, and virtuoso guitarist Sarah Longfield is also a pretty darn good drummer), but even then there are not a lot.

I think it's a cultural thing more than anything. Jazz, rock, funk, and metal -- the four main genres were permanent drummers are common -- are gigantic sausage fests in general (in ascending order of sausage infestation). Rock and Metal are HEAVILY male dominated, especially on the musician front. Most of the female musicians in the metal genre are vocalists. There are few female guitarists and bassists, and even fewer drummers.

With jazz at least, until recently there was a lot of pressure for women in music academia to pick "feminine" instruments like the higher saxophones or piano or trumpet rather than the more "masculine" instruments like drums or bones (Aimee Nolte, a jazz musician and YouTuber, has a good video talking about her experiences with it here). I think this attitude is also implicit in the other three genres, which don't have the added benefit of a safe academic environment to encourage potential female drummers. I think as feminist ideas (particularly the aversion to traditional gender roles) become more accepted and mainstream, there will be a rise in female drummers in Western and certain Asian cultures. I think it'll also come in waves, with some initial prominent pioneers (like Sarah Longfield and Meytal Cohen) starting things off, then additional waves of imitators, and finally it becoming more common place. This will probably be similar to how it's happening with female classical and film composers.

There's also an issue that's common to women artists in general, and that's sexualization. Women are either praised or scorned by male audiences* for sexualizing themselves or not sexualizing themselves. The topic of discussion often returns to their physical appearances and how they "present" themselves, even if it's not particularly relevant to their abilities. In fact, their abilities are often filtered through the lens of where they fall on a "Virgin/Whore" sliding scale so that someone who values one end will rate artists differently depending on where they fall on the scale. It's a "damned if you do/damned if you don't" kind of scenario. Look at it this way: nobody will mention anything if someone likes Mike Portnoy or Neil Peart wears a tank top, but a girl drummer wearing a tank top will get a LOT of positive (but usually fairly creepy) and negative comments. Generally women will be evaluated more on their looks than on any talent. Like, just look through this thread or any YouTube comment section for a female drummer!

*And yes, before you say anything, women do this to other women too.