425's Third Roulette v. Fell and rose and tried...

[TAC]

Yeah, that list is clearly upside down.

[Nekov]

Well then, seems I'm going uphill in this one. I'm obviously going to torpedo myself with the EP 

[Evermind]

Cyril:
1. The Antlers - Wake
2. Billie Eilish - when the party's over
3. Amendfoil - Skyline Escape

Evermind:
1. The Antlers - Palace
2. Karmakanic - Who's the Boss in the Factory
3. Lords of Black - Ghosts of You

[Crow]

Don't ever let anyone tell you you deserve that (good score)

[The Walrus]

That Antlers album is so good. Tomi sent it to me in my first roulette. Not stellar from start to finish imo but has some wonderful music on there. Dig it.

[425]

Okay, here are results for the final pre-EP round! I would say that overall this was probably the weakest round of the three, but it also had my two favorite songs of the whole roulette so far. I think the average score is lower this round than on either of the previous two, and it has the lowest score of the roulette, but it also has the highest. A round of contrasts. Here are the results.




Evermind: The Antlers - Palace

Impression: Wow, what a memorable voice. This song is an immediate favorite—I mean, it struck me within the first minute.

Okay, so I wasn't staring at the timestamp when I said "the first minute," so it was really maybe the first 90 seconds, but I think the point is clear. What actually first struck me is the main chord progression, which is mesmerizing in itself, and then when the vocals came in, it went to the next level. The female vocalist has a distinct and memorable voice, and the melodies are so emotionally powerful. The instrumentation is a wonderful compliment. I absolutely love the way the brass is used on this piece, both under the vocals and as a lead instrument on its own.

This is a song where every element is in just the right place to create a powerful emotional effect. For example, I feel like the tempo is perfect, not even a bit too fast or too slow, but just right in the perfect place. This song really impressed from the start and continues to impress me a ton. Despite my reputation as a generous scorer, I've only given a handful of perfect scores before. I'm very cautious to only give that high an honor to songs that deserve it. Well...

Score: 10 out of 10.


Cyril: The Antlers - Wake

Impression: At first, I wasn't particularly impressed by the singer (who plays a pretty central role in this one), but as the song went along, I came to really like his performance due to its emotional power.

I think the main factor that led to this impression was the presence of Palace in this round, and the fact that on my first listen, by sheer randomness, this song came on right after it. I was so impressed by the female vocalist on that song, that there was a bit of disappointment right off the bat on hearing that she was not back on this one.

But this singer won me over, not with technical excellence, but with an understated emotional performance on some truly powerful melodies and lyrics. And, though this is one of those songs that's structured around the vocal part, the instrumentation is really excellent, in the first half providing a great counterpart that feels to me like it's sort of guiding the vocals along their rather mesmerizing progression... and then in the second half taking things up to the next level. Seriously, the second half of this song is so poignant, so well executed, that I won't try to go into any further detail.

Either this song or Palace would have sent The Antlers to the top of my list. The combination of the two is almost too much for one round.

Score: 9.5 out of 10.


TAC: Teramaze - Delusions of Grandeur

Impression: Of a few songs in this vein this round, I think this one may be the strongest, due to the excellent guitar work in the instrumental section.

Of the three epic prog metal songs of this round (this one, Darkwater, Pathosray), this one started out in front, and never really relinquished its lead. I don't make any secret of the fact that I'm a big fan of dynamics and anthemic choruses, and this one definitely has those features. It also brings to the table a couple of strong instrumental sections, the last of which is particularly strong.

This song fires on all cylinders and delivers a lot of great instrumental work and some powerful melodies. Definitely one of the most enjoyable entries of the round.

Score: 8.5 out of 10.


Lethean: Darkwater - Tallest Tree

Impression: This is probably not quite as strong as another fairly stylistically similar song from this round, but I do enjoy it quite a bit, particularly the middle section.

The Teramaze song and this one (and to a lesser extent the Pathosray song) were sort of paired together for me as the prog metal epics of the round. This one was probably the biggest grower out of that set, in the sense that it definitely started out as the lowest of the three, and now is up there in a very similar range as the Teramaze song, to the point where I don't know which one I like better.

What I particularly enjoy here is the buildup in intensity over the course of the song, which I think is done pretty subtly in this case (i.e., it's not an obvious case of starting really quiet and building to some huge climax), but is definitely still present. Even within the verse-chorus element of the structure, it feels like each successive chorus is bigger than the previous one, which is pretty cool. This is a really solid progressive metal epic that will definitely have me checking out the album.

Score: 8.5 out of 10.


jingle.boy: Boston - Foreplay/Long Time

Impression: This is a really well-structured song that I enjoy listening to, but does not resonate with me as well as I could see it doing with others.

A tough score and writeup to do, because I am very aware of the legendary status of this song and album. I really have nothing to criticize here, and probably nothing to praise that hasn't been said a thousand times before, so I'll just try to give a best attempt at describing my own overall reaction to this song to at least explain my ultimately scoring decision.

This is one of those songs that I enjoy all the way through primarily because of an overall impression I get that it is a very skilled composition. This isn't the same thing as what I wrote about in the Stargazer writeup, where I get a sense of a song insisting on its greatness, but it's sort of a similar thing on not quite as high a level.

This feeling doesn't necessarily entail a strong emotional connection to the song or the notion that it's something that resonates with me on a deep level. But it does entail an enjoyment that I can't resist. And in this case, that feeling has grown on every additional listen, as I discover more and more nuances in the songwriting. It's grown since I posted those rankings an hour ago, to where I'd say those are now wrong and the Boston song beats the Triumph. Maybe if I listened to it five more times it'd beat Circus Maximus, too, although that one is just more my kind of music. (And for the record, this was written before people started reacting to that ranking in the thread.) But this is just a song that feels good to listen to. It'll definitely have me checking to see if the rest of the album lives up to the reputation.

Score: 8.5 out of 10.


Kattelox: Pathosray - Emerald City

Impression: I am not crazy about the first vocal part, but this one seems to get better and better as it goes along—and the rest of the vocals are much improved.

I don't know, is that a different vocalist on the first part than the later ones? Because the style there is so different than the rest of the vocals. I don't know, the main thing is that I was worried when I heard that style of singing, because it really wasn't working for me on this track. But fortunately that didn't wind up being a decisive factor, especially because the other vocal style predominates.

Instrumentally, I really like this song a lot. There's so much going on that it really feels longer than 7:20, in a good way—almost has that mini-epic feel that I've tried to identify with themed rounds in past roulettes. There's a good progression between the sections, particularly in the transition from the guitar solo in the instrumental section into the "king of the universe" part.

This is a very good song. I am looking forward to giving more time to it, and hearing more from the band.

Score: 8.5 out of 10.

[425]

Elite: PreHistoric Animals - Burn the Ground

Impression: I really had no idea what to expect here... I definitely like what I'm hearing, though, particularly those melodies that really convey a strong sense of rising (I don't know how to describe it better).

This is a song where I'm probably not going to be able to go into much detail for the writeup. It's just, in my opinion, a really strong prog song. I'm a particular fan of the vocal element here. The melodies, both verse and chorus, are really catchy, and convey this sense of an almost constant buildup that runs through the whole song. There's also some strong instrumental work, particularly from the rhythm section.

Stylistically, the result is almost a hybrid between prog and modern alternative rock, which I think is pretty cool. This is just a very solid piece.

Score: 8.0 out of 10.


romdrums: Periphery - Lune

Impression: I really like a lot of the vocal melodies here. I don't think the singer's style is the style best-suited to them, but he does at least a decent job.

Periphery, I understand, is a pretty big name in prog metal these days, but I have to admit to having never heard any of their songs. I understand from your PM (and from knowing that they're associated pretty heavily with djent) that this isn't really their usual style. But however accustomed they are to doing music like this, this is a pretty strong effort.

I really like songs like this, where there is a strong emphasis on slower-developing emotional melodies with plenty of dynamic range between heavier and softer parts. This one is generally a pretty well-executed example of the style. One particular highlight is the pairing of the heavier guitar riffs with the "woah oh oh" parts late in the song. I can see this being a strong album closer.

The one noteworthy downside here is mentioned in the impression. The singer's tendency toward a core-type style of vocals is not, I think, the best style for this type of emotional song, and I think it would be better if he had adopted a different style. But it never detracts too heavily, and the overall song is still pretty strong.

Score: 8.0 out of 10.


Stadler: Michael Schenker Group - But I Want More

Impression: I'm interested by some of the complexity of this song, though I think it's overall again something that's not quite my style. Strong finale, though.

Once again we have something in a style that I've sort of expressed a lukewarm general attitude toward, but have had some stuff succeed in: 70s/80s hard rock. So, is this another success story, or do we have something that's going to fall into that lower echelon again? In this case, it's probably somewhere in the middle.

I definitely like this song more than most songs in this style, mainly because I like that there's a lot going on here that still comes together pretty well. There's a lot of tempo shifts, shifts in mood, etc., all run through by enjoyable guitar work.

The limiting factor here is that I don't connect particularly strongly to the vocal performance. I'm not crazy about the singing style here, and the vocal melodies don't particularly stand out to me. The instrumentals are quite good and this song is strong enough to make me at least interested in hearing more from the band, but it's not going to reach the upper tiers of the round.

Score: 7.5 out of 10.


Nekov: Jakub Zytecki - Satya's Diary

Impression: I am not particularly a fan of the style of growling used on this one. There's a lot of other stuff going on here, though, so we'll see how well that catches me.

The overriding feature of this song, for me, is actually not (contrary to the impression) the relatively brief growling part. That's what stuck out to me on first listen, but, well, it's a first impression and those sometimes change. The overriding feature is the attempt to combine technical parts with more melodic ones. I'm certainly impressed by a lot of the technical guitar work on this one, but technicality is not something I primarily come to music looking for.

Fortunately, this song has some of what I do look for. There are some interesting vocal parts on this one, and a really good melodic guitar solo. The final two and a half minutes are particularly strong. Once the song switches over to the piano-driven quiet part and the subsequent buildup into the finale, it goes from something that I think is a bit uncertain of what its exact identity is, into a pretty impressive emotional work.

To address the vocal issue: I've indicated both before and during the roulette that I'm much more likely to be well-disposed to harsh vocals than in the past, and that is true. However, that does not mean that I think it is usually the right vocal style to use, or that I will like all styles of growling. In this case, I'm just not crazy about the way this guy's growls sound. They sound a little... phlegmatic? Anyway, it's a short section that I don't like, which obviously is an obstacle to my enjoyment of the whole song, but not a totally insurmountable one.

Overall, this song feels like it's trying to be a lot of different things, and it does each of those things pretty well. While it never really feels cohesive, and spends more time than I'd prefer on the parts that I'm less interested in, the really strong finale brings it up somewhat in my estimate, and makes me at least interested in hearing what else this artist can do.

Score: 7.5 out of 10.


Puppies_On_Acid: Ihsahn - On the Shores

Impression: There is a lot of interesting stuff going on here musically... but I think the vocal performance here is bad in several places, actually.

Just going to paste what I said in my writeup for Nekov's here by means of introducing this topic: I've indicated both before and during the roulette that I'm much more likely to be well-disposed to harsh vocals than in the past, and that is true. However, that does not mean that I think it is usually the right vocal style to use, or that I will like all styles of growling.

I'll try to describe this as best as I can. The type of growls I think are best are typically those that sound thick and menacing, not thin and agonized. That doesn't really capture it, but it's an attempt. Anyway, the growls on this song are of a type that I really don't like. There are points where it actually just sounds to me like he lost his voice partway through the take but decided to leave it on the record anyway. Especially the part at 4:45.

I'm not going to belabor it, but I wanted to try to explain my point of view, since the vocals are a major factor in the scoring for this song.

Musically, there's a lot here that I find pretty interesting. As I've said before, I like longer songs that flow between a lot of different sections, and this achieves that pretty well, musically. I like the symphonic elements, and the big, epic sound of a lot of the riffs. The saxophone is an interesting touch, as well. This is a song that I could see myself getting very much into if I liked the vocals even somewhat better. So the result is not going to be a bad score (no surprise huh), but on the overall scale of this roulette, where I haven't outright disliked anything, it will unfortunately be at the bottom tier.

Score: 7.0 out of 10.


Sacul: DARKSIDE - Heart

Impression: This song is kind of quirky in a way I'm not sure I'll be able to get fully into. At least it has one particular groove that I like.

This song is very... bouncy. And that gives it this very quirky vibe, like a sort of hipster coffee shop type thing. There's a certain kind of hipster-coffee-shop-adjacent sound that I can enjoy, but when we go into the full thing, that's a little harder for me.

The struggle here is that there are a number of elements here that I like. The softer guitar part in the middle is a pretty nice section, and the guitar groove that follows it is the one referred to in the impression, and I really do like it pretty well. Overall, the parts where the guitar takes the lead are the best parts of the song, in part because I'm not crazy about the vocal performance as a whole, it's a little too consistently high-pitched for me.

Overall, this has some stuff that I like when I listen to it, but is just not something that I really see myself coming back to.

Score: 7.0 out of 10.


Tomislav95: Emancipator - First Snow

Impression: There's a lot of stuff going on here, and while I like the core melodic concepts, I don't care for a lot of the extraneous stuff that's been added in.

Very risky sending me two songs in this sort of instrumental atmosphere-focused style in a row. Of course, it did pay off last time, but, yeah, what I said about not liking a lot of these type of songs very well still applies.

In the better ones of these songs, what typically happens is that there are a couple of themes that I find pretty nice, and that makes the listening experience pretty decent. That's the case here; the main themes are pretty good, especially the second one. But two solid themes in a song like this is not really enough to rise into the upper echelons of a round for me. It's also necessary to have something else going on. In the case of the Maybeshewill song, it was a really excellent vocal section that boosted that one up.

In this case, we have a lot of samples, none of which really adds anything for me, and some of which are a little on the annoying side, I must say. Overall, I think the song would definitely be better without them. But even then, it just wouldn't be a favorite for me, unfortunately. I hope I made clear enough earlier that this style of music is a big risk, and you're not too surprised by the outcome.

Score: 6.5 out of 10.





Standings:
Evermind - 27.5
Cyril - 26.5
jingle.boy - 25.5
TAC - 25.5
Lethean - 25.0
Tomislav95 - 24.5
--------------------
Kattelox - 24.0
Stadler - 24.0
Elite - 23.5
Sacul - 23.5
Nekov - 23.0
romdrums - 23.0
Puppies_On_Acid - 22.5

Evermind steps out to a commanding lead in hopes of finally winning a 425 roulette, but it will end in tragedy when I meh Beyond the Bridge and Cyril unexpectedly gets a perfect score on the EP I'll hate!

Okay, so as much as a part of me would like to try to run a 13 EP round, my rational side says that's insane don't try that you're already slow as hell. So I'm not going to try that.

I said previously that the top six would be safe. I think six is a good number of EP's to work with, and there's a nice even cutoff after #6 (and then a tie at #7), so I am going to stick with that. Evermind, Cyril, Chad, Tim, Lethean, Tomi, you're in! Send me your EPs as soon as you have them ready. The standard rules for EPs apply: 40 minute maximum, substantial use of at least 3 different artists. The scores will be out of 20 points.



As for everyone else, thank you so much for playing. Even in a short roulette where you ended up on the losing end, I think I've gotten stuff from all of you that I'll be interested to check out in the future, so that is much appreciated. And if any of you has prepared or want to prepare an EP that you want me to hear, please send it to me! I want to hear them! After I have delivered results on the final round, I will do a writeup on any EPs sent in by eliminated participants.

[The Walrus]

Damn... so close. I was really hoping you'd dig that first vocal part - that's no lie one of the coolest metal vocal sections I've ever heard in my life. Glad you enjoyed the rest though! I'm making an EP for you anyway. 

Also, yeah, one guy - his name is Marco Sandron and he's a vocal monster.

[425]

Huh, it's kind of cool that the same guy is able to do both those styles. I don't know, it just didn't connect with me. Didn't feel quite right for the song.

Looking forward to hearing your EP!

[Crow]

Dammit Ev
Nah but Palace is great too, Wake is honestly more of an album song than anything and at the end of a very emotionally wrought album in context it destroys me

You've had my EP for like a month now but I'm just go ahead and say it:

Sent.

[Evermind]

Wow, a 10/10! I don't remember if I've ever got a 10/10 before since I didn't play in Scar's roulette.

Evermind steps out to a commanding lead in hopes of finally winning a 425 roulette, but it will end in tragedy when I meh Beyond the Bridge and Cyril unexpectedly gets a perfect score on the EP I'll hate!

I have no doubts I'll blow my lead.

I also didn't work on my EP at all so far, have exactly zero songs ready. I'll try to get it to you on Sunday.

[The Walrus]

I'm out of both active roulettes now. Someone start a damn roulette so I can play again! 

[jingle.boy]

You had me worried with those impressions.

You'll have my EP tomorrow, maybe Saturday.  I've had my strategy right from the outset, just got to get my time and running order lined up.

[TAC]

I'm out of both active roulettes now. Someone start a damn roulette so I can play again! 

Serves you right Mr. "Please Join My Roulette So I Can Eliminate More People" Man.

[jingle.boy]

I'm out of both active roulettes now. Someone start a damn roulette so I can play again! 

Serves you right Mr. "Please Join My Roulette So I Can Eliminate More People" Man.

[The Walrus]

I'm out of both active roulettes now. Someone start a damn roulette so I can play again! 

Serves you right Mr. "Please Join My Roulette So I Can Eliminate More People" Man.

Everyone knew what they were signing up for. You can only blame yourselves. Send better shit and you won't have to worry about that, hot shot!   

[Crow]

Yeah I'm next in line I think and my roulette thread will go up over the weekend if so

[Stadler]

I feel empty.

[Crow]

The Great 0.5 Point Divide

Happens when there's only 3 rounds I guess 

425, I don't know if you've decided to indulge yourself in my EP yet but I hope if you've done so you regret letting me survive this long.

[Puppies_On_Acid]

jingle.boy:
1. Circus Maximus - Glory of the Empire
2. Triumph - Fight the Good Fight
3. Boston - Foreplay/Long Time

And there you have it.

TASTES^TM!!!

Those are all epic, legendary songs, so trying to rate them in order would be extremely difficult for most people.

[Crow]

There are a few really ironic posts in this thread based on the pre-results and it's very 

Kattelox:
1. Pathosray - Emerald City
2. Twilight Force - Flight of the Sapphire Dragon
3. Tom Waits - I Hope That I Don't Fall In Love With You

Fuck you!!!!

[TAC]

I'm out of both active roulettes now. Someone start a damn roulette so I can play again! 

Serves you right Mr. "Please Join My Roulette So I Can Eliminate More People" Man.

Everyone knew what they were signing up for. You can only blame yourselves. Send better shit and you won't have to worry about that, hot shot!   

[TAC]

Kattelox: Pathosray - Emerald City

This is a very good song. I am looking forward to giving more time to it, and hearing more from the band.

I originally built my EP around a Pathosray song.

[The Walrus]

 

[TAC]

I checked out The Antlers..




...I'm in the wrong roulette.

[Crow]

I'm in the wrong roulette.

425, this is my official EP title now.

[TAC]

I'm in the wrong roulette.

425, this is my official EP title now.

Too late!

[Tomislav95]

What's the minimum EP length allowed?

[Nekov]

 

[TAC]

EP sent!!!

[Stadler]

I sent my EP:

- 4' 33", by John Cage
- Two Minutes Of Silence, by John Lennon
- One Minute Of Silence, by Soundgarden
- The ten minute song between "Something In The Way" and "Endless, Nameless" on Nevermind, by Nirvana
- Songs 10 through 68 from Undertow, by Tool
- "Our Song", by Roger Waters/Ron Geesin (from the "Music From The Body" soundtrack)

19 minutes and 57 seconds of some of the most meaningful and moving music I've ever sent in a roulette.  I hope you like it.

       

[romdrums]

I sent my EP:

- 4' 33", by John Cage
- Two Minutes Of Silence, by John Lennon
- One Minute Of Silence, by Soundgarden
- The ten minute song between "Something In The Way" and "Endless, Nameless" on Nevermind, by Nirvana
- Songs 10 through 68 from Undertow, by Tool
- "Our Song", by Roger Waters/Ron Geesin (from the "Music From The Body" soundtrack)

19 minutes and 57 seconds of some of the most meaningful and moving music I've ever sent in a roulette.  I hope you like it.

      

Hello darkness my old friend.

[Elite]

Aahw, that's a shame. Glad you liked the last song a bit though!

[425]

What's the minimum EP length allowed?

Have not really thought about a minimum, because I figured most people would be striving against a maximum and not really worrying about the reverse.

Um, no minimum, but I can almost guarantee it will hurt your score if yours is like, massively shorter than everyone else's. So I wouldn't recommend going below, say, 25 minutes? But I'm not going to enforce anything.

I sent my EP:

- 4' 33", by John Cage
- Two Minutes Of Silence, by John Lennon
- One Minute Of Silence, by Soundgarden
- The ten minute song between "Something In The Way" and "Endless, Nameless" on Nevermind, by Nirvana
- Songs 10 through 68 from Undertow, by Tool
- "Our Song", by Roger Waters/Ron Geesin (from the "Music From The Body" soundtrack)

19 minutes and 57 seconds of some of the most meaningful and moving music I've ever sent in a roulette.  I hope you like it.

       

As a fan of Coheed and Cambria's A Lot of Nothing I-XI, I'm really looking forward to digging into this one!

I checked out The Antlers..




...I'm in the wrong roulette.

I embrace multitudes. The Anabasis track is my 4th favorite song of the roulette after the two The Antlers songs and Stargazer.

[Crow]

relistened to Palace since I haven't in a while, never got this album because the rest of the album never really lived up to the standard this song set

there's, uh, no female vocalist on this track though, the frontman just sings like that 
or at the very least there doesn't seem to be any female vocalist credited on the album
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familiars_(album)#Personnel

i was weirded out when reading that comment 'cause i was like "wait i don't remember a female vocalist on that song"