Video Game Thread v. Series Xbox One X Series Switch S 5

[ErHaO]

A few additional things that probably went into the decision of removing it from the store was that CDPR probably didn't fulfill the certificate wavier to get the game approved in the first place. When Sony signed off on the game CDPR most likely told Sony that the bugs will be fixed. Then they told people who were happy with the purchase of CP77 to ask for a refund and getting a refund from the Sony store with any playtime is a difficult process so Sony thought it was best to just pull it.

Yes, I agree.

Even if Sony had a proper refund policy*, many of those refund requests will be of people having played the game for hours. Due to the complex and content rich nature of this title, some of the more gamebreaking stuff can occur dozens of hours into the experience. So even with a steam-esque policy this would lead to a big problem. For example, people can basically play it for 40 hours,  only for the game to start crashing the entire console every half an hour with no fix in sight.  And as CDprojekt themselves have essentially agreed it is a mess and that people are eligible for a refund if they are not happy, they put the ball on Sony's end. So now being Sony you get a shit ton of people asking for their money back while they played the game for hours already. You can't keep the game in the store while at the same time allowing for a total refund for customers who have used the product for wildly varying times. And when Sony denies a customer their money that CDprojekt said they were entitled to, it is Sony who looks bad. So I really do think given the entire context the removal makes sense.




*Sony does absolutely need to improve their refund policies. Thankfully, Sony has refunded me several things over many years that they did not need to according to their rules, so my experience has been good. But still, they imo need to.

[ariich]

I agree ErHaO, Sony's refund policy is terrible, but refund policies for digital content are always difficult.

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post too. Although, even Sony's policy allows for refunds if the game is faulty, which it clearly is when played on base PS4. So regardless of hours-played, I can't see how it wasn't eligible for refunds. So while I think they *could* have kept the game in the store while allowing refunds for anyone who was playing on PS4 rather than PS5 (I can't imagine they wouldn't have been able to tell what device it was played on), it might have been more a case of it being much simpler, easier and more efficient to just pull it until it's fixed.

[cramx3]

After PS getting all the good exclusive games for awhile, it feels good to say "PC Master Race" 

CDPR messed this release up pretty badly for old gens and they admitted it.  I'm guessing they probably had contracts to release things on all platforms at the same time but without an exclusive PS5 version, and how poorly this game runs on old gens, it seems they really probably only should have released in on PC and the new XBOX on release date, and since there are bugs, maybe just held off completely until 2021.  This timeline pressure stuff needs to stop in video games.  Games should not be announced so early and should not have release dates until it's a solid 100% accurate timeline.

[ariich]

After PS getting all the good exclusive games for awhile, it feels good to say "PC Master Race" 

CDPR messed this release up pretty badly for old gens and they admitted it.  I'm guessing they probably had contracts to release things on all platforms at the same time but without an exclusive PS5 version, and how poorly this game runs on old gens, it seems they really probably only should have released in on PC and the new XBOX on release date, and since there are bugs, maybe just held off completely until 2021.  This timeline pressure stuff needs to stop in video games.  Games should not be announced so early and should not have release dates until it's a solid 100% accurate timeline.

Is there a specific Series X version? I thought there wasn't for either new-gen console, just XBox One and PS4 versions which the new consoles play due to backwards compatibility.

But yes, I'm happy to be both a Playstation and PC gamer.

And yes in terms of release dates and crunch and so on, it's interesting to compare it to the music industry where you might hear bits of information about an album in the works, maybe even know what it's about, but you don't get an actual release date and full press release normally until the album has been completely mixed and mastered and everything.

[ErHaO]

I agree ErHaO, Sony's refund policy is terrible, but refund policies for digital content are always difficult.

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post too. Although, even Sony's policy allows for refunds if the game is faulty, which it clearly is when played on base PS4. So regardless of hours-played, I can't see how it wasn't eligible for refunds. So while I think they *could* have kept the game in the store while allowing refunds for anyone who was playing on PS4 rather than PS5 (I can't imagine they wouldn't have been able to tell what device it was played on), it might have been more a case of it being much simpler, easier and more efficient to just pull it until it's fixed.

Yes, you are right.

But I think a big (potential) problem for unconditional refunds is that that basically everyone can play through the campaign, have their fun with it, say the console now crashes, and get their money back. And that also invites new potential buyers to abuse the system. Keep in mind a a lot of AAA game customers intensly play a game and then go over to the next big one, even for RPG's. 

It is also worth to note that PS5 users are having the crashes and other problems as well, but the PS5 userbase is still only a tiny fraction of the PSN customers (and, well, like 50% of the PS5 stock is sitting at garages with a 1000 dollar ebay pricetag at this point.....). The PS5 is after all esentially the same version running on much better hardware, which only takes part of the problems away. Which then leads to a messy discussion where to draw the line, which I image isn't worth the effort over just delisting it and returning the ball to CDprojekt.

[cramx3]

After PS getting all the good exclusive games for awhile, it feels good to say "PC Master Race" 

CDPR messed this release up pretty badly for old gens and they admitted it.  I'm guessing they probably had contracts to release things on all platforms at the same time but without an exclusive PS5 version, and how poorly this game runs on old gens, it seems they really probably only should have released in on PC and the new XBOX on release date, and since there are bugs, maybe just held off completely until 2021.  This timeline pressure stuff needs to stop in video games.  Games should not be announced so early and should not have release dates until it's a solid 100% accurate timeline.

Is there a specific Series X version? I thought there wasn't for either new-gen console, just XBox One and PS4 versions which the new consoles play due to backwards compatibility.

But yes, I'm happy to be both a Playstation and PC gamer.

And yes in terms of release dates and crunch and so on, it's interesting to compare it to the music industry where you might hear bits of information about an album in the works, maybe even know what it's about, but you don't get an actual release date and full press release normally until the album has been completely mixed and mastered and everything.

Honestly not sure, I only heard about the PS having only the PS4 version, so I just assumed there was two Xbox versions.  But I'm probably wrong then. I don't follow the console stuff too closely, but twitter has been exploding mostly based on the PS4 version and Sony seems to be responding about it, not Microsoft.  What do I know?    

[ErHaO]

After PS getting all the good exclusive games for awhile, it feels good to say "PC Master Race" 

CDPR messed this release up pretty badly for old gens and they admitted it.  I'm guessing they probably had contracts to release things on all platforms at the same time but without an exclusive PS5 version, and how poorly this game runs on old gens, it seems they really probably only should have released in on PC and the new XBOX on release date, and since there are bugs, maybe just held off completely until 2021.  This timeline pressure stuff needs to stop in video games.  Games should not be announced so early and should not have release dates until it's a solid 100% accurate timeline.

Is there a specific Series X version? I thought there wasn't for either new-gen console, just XBox One and PS4 versions which the new consoles play due to backwards compatibility.

But yes, I'm happy to be both a Playstation and PC gamer.

And yes in terms of release dates and crunch and so on, it's interesting to compare it to the music industry where you might hear bits of information about an album in the works, maybe even know what it's about, but you don't get an actual release date and full press release normally until the album has been completely mixed and mastered and everything.

No, but as per Digital Foundry the Series X running the One version does have some additional enhancements, probably due to differences of how they handle backwards compatibility. The Xbox version is a mess as well, who knows what will happen with that.  Microsoft also gave customers problems with refund, if articles are to believed, but also keep in mind on the global scale the PS4 userbase is significantly bigger, which means more noise. But this all very much applies to Xbox as well. As I said, someone I know owns it on the base One and he for sure considers it unplayable.

I can only imagine that after this Sony news, MS will get a lot more calls for refunds than usual, especially since this actually hit mainstream news.

Basically CDprojekt made a last gen refund statement/offer while not discussing this with any storefront, not just Sony. MS's policy is way better but also not very defined. But my experience with MS has also been good in the past.

[cramx3]

Copying a quote from a coworker in my work gamers chat because I think it's interesting

vast majority of gamers are either on last gen consoles or PCs with something around 1060 level cards and middling processors. to put out a hotly anticipated game for the holidays that basically only runs well on stuff rich and/or lucky people have access to right now is the culmination of a lot of bullshit gaming industry practices and the general timbre of this whole year. combine that with the console review blackout and it's hard to see this as anything other than tricking the majority of gamers into subsidizing a game that's broken and only really works for "the 1%"

I don't really agree with the 1% part, but I can understand the frustration for a lot of these gamers who purchased a highly anticipated broken game.  It definitely feels more and more shady when I read about things like the review blackout on old consoles.  Makes me think they knew what they were doing.

[Stadler]

Given that I'm years behind (and have no real desire to be on the vanguard of console gaming), what say you all on getting a PS4 at this point, not the PS5?   Are they cheap enough (including games) at this point to justify staying one gen behind?   Or am I wasting my time?   I've had the PS3 for over a decade (not the same one; I had to replace my original fat boy that I bought in like 2006/2007 a couple years ago) and it serves my needs. 

[Revenge319]

Given that I'm years behind (and have no real desire to be on the vanguard of console gaming), what say you all on getting a PS4 at this point, not the PS5?   Are they cheap enough (including games) at this point to justify staying one gen behind?   Or am I wasting my time?   I've had the PS3 for over a decade (not the same one; I had to replace my original fat boy that I bought in like 2006/2007 a couple years ago) and it serves my needs.

Personally, I'd get a PS5, since it allows you to play both PS4 and PS5 games. PS4 games also run better on PS5, if I'm not mistaken.

[Chino]

Given that I'm years behind (and have no real desire to be on the vanguard of console gaming), what say you all on getting a PS4 at this point, not the PS5?   Are they cheap enough (including games) at this point to justify staying one gen behind?   Or am I wasting my time?   I've had the PS3 for over a decade (not the same one; I had to replace my original fat boy that I bought in like 2006/2007 a couple years ago) and it serves my needs.

I'd get the PS5 if you don't already have the PS4. It's only a few hundred more, and you can still play all the cheap ps4 games you want on it.

[cramx3]

Given that I'm years behind (and have no real desire to be on the vanguard of console gaming), what say you all on getting a PS4 at this point, not the PS5?   Are they cheap enough (including games) at this point to justify staying one gen behind?   Or am I wasting my time?   I've had the PS3 for over a decade (not the same one; I had to replace my original fat boy that I bought in like 2006/2007 a couple years ago) and it serves my needs.

I'm not a console player so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I would just get a PS5 if you can find one.  It is mostly backwards compatible from my understanding.  I guess the "if you can find one" part might change this opinion, but I saw some people were able to scoop them up online at walmart yesterday.  You've just got to be on time and know when/where they are getting released, not so different than buying a hot concert ticket.

[Podaar]

Given that I'm years behind (and have no real desire to be on the vanguard of console gaming), what say you all on getting a PS4 at this point, not the PS5?   Are they cheap enough (including games) at this point to justify staying one gen behind?   Or am I wasting my time?   I've had the PS3 for over a decade (not the same one; I had to replace my original fat boy that I bought in like 2006/2007 a couple years ago) and it serves my needs.

Yes they are worth it, for the PS4 titles alone. No, they are not cheap. Yes, you are wasting your time, for almost no difference in price you should wait for PS5 to be widely available. There you go. 

[Dublagent66]

Given that I'm years behind (and have no real desire to be on the vanguard of console gaming), what say you all on getting a PS4 at this point, not the PS5?   Are they cheap enough (including games) at this point to justify staying one gen behind?   Or am I wasting my time?   I've had the PS3 for over a decade (not the same one; I had to replace my original fat boy that I bought in like 2006/2007 a couple years ago) and it serves my needs.

Yes they are worth it, for the PS4 titles alone. No, they are not cheap. Yes, you are wasting your time, for almost no difference in price you should wait for PS5 to be widely available. There you go. 

Agreed.  The PS4 is $299 and the Pro is $399.  Right now the PS5 is only $100 more than the PS4 Pro and I'm playing most of my PS4 games on the PS5 with better performance than the Pro.  At this point, the PS4 is almost redundant.

[ErHaO]

Copying a quote from a coworker in my work gamers chat because I think it's interesting

vast majority of gamers are either on last gen consoles or PCs with something around 1060 level cards and middling processors. to put out a hotly anticipated game for the holidays that basically only runs well on stuff rich and/or lucky people have access to right now is the culmination of a lot of bullshit gaming industry practices and the general timbre of this whole year. combine that with the console review blackout and it's hard to see this as anything other than tricking the majority of gamers into subsidizing a game that's broken and only really works for "the 1%"

I don't really agree with the 1% part, but I can understand the frustration for a lot of these gamers who purchased a highly anticipated broken game.  It definitely feels more and more shady when I read about things like the review blackout on old consoles.  Makes me think they knew what they were doing.

Don't know about the 1%, and it depends on what someone deems acceptable, but overall he is not wrong at all. The game basically works well on higher end Nvidia cards and intel processors, but that in the end is a small percentage, even when only taking the PC market into account. Look at Steam hardware surveys or what cards have the largest marketshare, most PC gamers are far from high end. There is a reason why large electronic stores have a lot of prebuilt middling PC's on the floor, those sell the most (pricerange roughly around 500-1000 euros).

Given that I'm years behind (and have no real desire to be on the vanguard of console gaming), what say you all on getting a PS4 at this point, not the PS5?   Are they cheap enough (including games) at this point to justify staying one gen behind?   Or am I wasting my time?   I've had the PS3 for over a decade (not the same one; I had to replace my original fat boy that I bought in like 2006/2007 a couple years ago) and it serves my needs.

The PS5 plays almost all PS4 games, many of them improved (way faster loading times, resolution, framerate). And it will play all the shiny new games for like the coming 6 years. It is about twice the price (and size) of the base PS4, but offers much more. And it also does everything the PS4pro does (the more expensive 4k PS4 model). I highly recommend going for the PS5 over the 4.

[Chino]

The PS5 plays almost all PS4 games, many of them improved (way faster loading times, resolution, framerate). And it will play all the shiny new games for like the coming 6 years. It is about twice the price (and size) of the base PS4, but offers much more. And it also does everything the PS4pro does (the more expensive 4k PS4 model). I highly recommend going for the PS5 over the 4.

It can't play Avatar in 3D like the PS4

[ariich]

Copying a quote from a coworker in my work gamers chat because I think it's interesting

vast majority of gamers are either on last gen consoles or PCs with something around 1060 level cards and middling processors. to put out a hotly anticipated game for the holidays that basically only runs well on stuff rich and/or lucky people have access to right now is the culmination of a lot of bullshit gaming industry practices and the general timbre of this whole year. combine that with the console review blackout and it's hard to see this as anything other than tricking the majority of gamers into subsidizing a game that's broken and only really works for "the 1%"

I don't really agree with the 1% part, but I can understand the frustration for a lot of these gamers who purchased a highly anticipated broken game.  It definitely feels more and more shady when I read about things like the review blackout on old consoles.  Makes me think they knew what they were doing.

Don't know about the 1%, and it depends on what someone deems acceptable, but overall he is not wrong at all. The game basically works well on higher end Nvidia cards and intel processors, but that in the end is a small percentage, even when only taking the PC market into account. Look at Steam hardware surveys or what cards have the largest marketshare, most PC gamers are far from high end. There is a reason why large electronic stores have a lot of prebuilt middling PC's on the floor, those sell the most (pricerange roughly around 500-1000 euros).

But on PC, crucially, there's a lot you can do to graphics and resolution settings to ensure the game is playable even on weaker systems (the game has a recommended minimum and I've not so far seen anything to say that it's been unplayable on that level of system like it is on the base last-gen consoles).

[cramx3]

In other news, I got laid last night.... in Cyberpunk.  Found a prostitute on the street, definitely interesting how they have the sex scenes in this 

Also, I totally forgot I have the ability to jump super high with one of my upgrades.  Makes it so much easier to get around in certain missions.  But once again, just so many options and abilities that it's so much to absorb and I forget some of these awesome benefits.

[ErHaO]

Copying a quote from a coworker in my work gamers chat because I think it's interesting

vast majority of gamers are either on last gen consoles or PCs with something around 1060 level cards and middling processors. to put out a hotly anticipated game for the holidays that basically only runs well on stuff rich and/or lucky people have access to right now is the culmination of a lot of bullshit gaming industry practices and the general timbre of this whole year. combine that with the console review blackout and it's hard to see this as anything other than tricking the majority of gamers into subsidizing a game that's broken and only really works for "the 1%"

I don't really agree with the 1% part, but I can understand the frustration for a lot of these gamers who purchased a highly anticipated broken game.  It definitely feels more and more shady when I read about things like the review blackout on old consoles.  Makes me think they knew what they were doing.

Don't know about the 1%, and it depends on what someone deems acceptable, but overall he is not wrong at all. The game basically works well on higher end Nvidia cards and intel processors, but that in the end is a small percentage, even when only taking the PC market into account. Look at Steam hardware surveys or what cards have the largest marketshare, most PC gamers are far from high end. There is a reason why large electronic stores have a lot of prebuilt middling PC's on the floor, those sell the most (pricerange roughly around 500-1000 euros).

But on PC, crucially, there's a lot you can do to graphics and resolution settings to ensure the game is playable even on weaker systems (the game has a recommended minimum and I've not so far seen anything to say that it's been unplayable on that level of system like it is on the base last-gen consoles).

I do agree with your point, but no version comes out unscathed from what I am reading at least. A lot of reviewers say the game is a mess (but also very good) and basically all of them were on pc early on because that was the only version CDprojekt sent for testing. On PS4/Xbox One the game is getting reviews in the 3.0-5.0 range, the PC version most definitely does not seem like it is that.

In true Bethesda fashion though, fans are fixing stuff for them in a matter of days https://www.pcgamer.com/get-a-23-percent-performance-boost-in-cyberpunk-2077-on-amd-cpus/

I'd say PC is comparable to the messier AAA launches and the console versions are unprecidented, save for some of the really bad multiplayer games like Fallout 76.

[Herrick]

In other news, I got laid last night.... in Cyberpunk.  Found a prostitute on the street, definitely interesting how they have the sex scenes in this 

Also, I totally forgot I have the ability to jump super high with one of my upgrades.  Makes it so much easier to get around in certain missions.  But once again, just so many options and abilities that it's so much to absorb and I forget some of these awesome benefits.

I really like that upgrade. Do you have the double jump or the charged jump? I opted for the charged jump (fortified ankles). Makes me feel like the Bionic Mang.

On another note - sniping through cover & walls. I thought it was a bug/bullshit that snipers could do this to me...until I realized I can do it too. This really comes in handy when you're getting hacked by someone who is behind cover. It's very satisfying to blow their head off before they can hack me.

[cramx3]

In true Bethesda fashion though, fans are fixing stuff for them in a matter of days https://www.pcgamer.com/get-a-23-percent-performance-boost-in-cyberpunk-2077-on-amd-cpus/

Wow, thanks for sharing this.  I have an AMD 12 core CPU so it seems I am the target demographic for this fix.  Will try it tonight after work.

In other news, I got laid last night.... in Cyberpunk.  Found a prostitute on the street, definitely interesting how they have the sex scenes in this 

Also, I totally forgot I have the ability to jump super high with one of my upgrades.  Makes it so much easier to get around in certain missions.  But once again, just so many options and abilities that it's so much to absorb and I forget some of these awesome benefits.

I really like that upgrade. Do you have the double jump or the charged jump? I opted for the charged jump (fortified ankles). Makes me feel like the Bionic Mang.

On another note - sniping through cover & walls. I thought it was a bug/bullshit that snipers could do this to me...until I realized I can do it too. This really comes in handy when you're getting hacked by someone who is behind cover. It's very satisfying to blow their head off before they can hack me.

Charged jump, you get some good height with this.  I actually haven't even tried using a sniper gun yet.  The snipers and hackers are really pissing me off though so I think I need to find/buy one and start getting good with it. 

[Herrick]

In true Bethesda fashion though, fans are fixing stuff for them in a matter of days https://www.pcgamer.com/get-a-23-percent-performance-boost-in-cyberpunk-2077-on-amd-cpus/

Wow, thanks for sharing this.  I have an AMD 12 core CPU so it seems I am the target demographic for this fix.  Will try it tonight after work.

In other news, I got laid last night.... in Cyberpunk.  Found a prostitute on the street, definitely interesting how they have the sex scenes in this 

Also, I totally forgot I have the ability to jump super high with one of my upgrades.  Makes it so much easier to get around in certain missions.  But once again, just so many options and abilities that it's so much to absorb and I forget some of these awesome benefits.

I really like that upgrade. Do you have the double jump or the charged jump? I opted for the charged jump (fortified ankles). Makes me feel like the Bionic Mang.

On another note - sniping through cover & walls. I thought it was a bug/bullshit that snipers could do this to me...until I realized I can do it too. This really comes in handy when you're getting hacked by someone who is behind cover. It's very satisfying to blow their head off before they can hack me.

Charged jump, you get some good height with this.  I actually haven't even tried using a sniper gun yet.  The snipers and hackers are really pissing me off though so I think I need to find/buy one and start getting good with it.

Yeah it's bullshit how they can hack you when they can't see you. And it's not like they're using cameras because I've been hacked in areas that did not have cameras.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I never worshipped CD Projekt Red, but I respected their attitude towards consumers, and never expected that they would screw things up this badly. Even Xbox is now offering full refunds. All they had to do was delay the game until March, take a punch on the chin, and things likely would have been fine. Instead, they've orchestrated one of the most disastrous video game launches of all-time. Even their staff are getting heated: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-18/cyberpunk-game-maker-faces-hostile-staff-after-failed-launch

This just sucks. I feel terrible for all of the developers who were probably warning management for months on end, only to see years of work blow up in their faces. That said, I have faith that they will get everything back on track next year.

[cramx3]

Yea, really hard not to feel bad for the developers who were crunching hardcore and at first glance it all seemed to work out with the day 1 sales... but the reality has set in.  Hopefully the PR losses and monetary losses signal something to the industry about hype/rush/poor launches so they don't make the same mistakes.

[faizoff]

Man what a clusterfuck this has become for the game. I didn't realize it was that bad, I get there will always be some optimization and bug fixes needed but this seems a lot bigger than I thought. I was aware of the AMD optimization because I saw the guide on the AMD subreddit. But pulling the game from the PS store is something really big along with offering full refunds.

[ariich]

Copying a quote from a coworker in my work gamers chat because I think it's interesting

vast majority of gamers are either on last gen consoles or PCs with something around 1060 level cards and middling processors. to put out a hotly anticipated game for the holidays that basically only runs well on stuff rich and/or lucky people have access to right now is the culmination of a lot of bullshit gaming industry practices and the general timbre of this whole year. combine that with the console review blackout and it's hard to see this as anything other than tricking the majority of gamers into subsidizing a game that's broken and only really works for "the 1%"

I don't really agree with the 1% part, but I can understand the frustration for a lot of these gamers who purchased a highly anticipated broken game.  It definitely feels more and more shady when I read about things like the review blackout on old consoles.  Makes me think they knew what they were doing.

Don't know about the 1%, and it depends on what someone deems acceptable, but overall he is not wrong at all. The game basically works well on higher end Nvidia cards and intel processors, but that in the end is a small percentage, even when only taking the PC market into account. Look at Steam hardware surveys or what cards have the largest marketshare, most PC gamers are far from high end. There is a reason why large electronic stores have a lot of prebuilt middling PC's on the floor, those sell the most (pricerange roughly around 500-1000 euros).

But on PC, crucially, there's a lot you can do to graphics and resolution settings to ensure the game is playable even on weaker systems (the game has a recommended minimum and I've not so far seen anything to say that it's been unplayable on that level of system like it is on the base last-gen consoles).

I do agree with your point, but no version comes out unscathed from what I am reading at least. A lot of reviewers say the game is a mess (but also very good) and basically all of them were on pc early on because that was the only version CDprojekt sent for testing. On PS4/Xbox One the game is getting reviews in the 3.0-5.0 range, the PC version most definitely does not seem like it is that.

In true Bethesda fashion though, fans are fixing stuff for them in a matter of days https://www.pcgamer.com/get-a-23-percent-performance-boost-in-cyberpunk-2077-on-amd-cpus/

I'd say PC is comparable to the messier AAA launches and the console versions are unprecidented, save for some of the really bad multiplayer games like Fallout 76.

Yeah I wasn't suggesting it was unscathed, but I read a number of the reviews which were all based on PC, and they were very consistent in saying that the game was buggy enough to make it less immersive at times, but never game breaking. And that was all pre day 1 patch which made it less buggy. I haven't played it yet but from what I've seen, on PC alone, it's far from the messiest launch and seems kind of average (perhaps slightly worse but not massively so) for modern large games. Which, I mean, I don't like that and it's why I pretty much never buy new games at launch because there are always problems of some kind or other, and playing them later on is both cheaper and just a much better experience. But it seems to be pretty industry standard these days. If that's all it had been, it seems pretty likely people would have played it anyway, they'd have released patches to improve it over the coming months and it'd end up being loved (much like Witcher 3). That might still happen - I hope so anyway. But the absolute catastrophe of the last-gen console launch has made it so high-profile that it'll probably always have a stigma attached to it no matter what now.

[ErHaO]

Maybe it is because everyone is at home and has fuck all to do, but never have I experienced so much conversation about a game controversy. My mom, who knows fuck all about games aside from maybe what is a Mario or Pikachu, texted me, as a joke, that she has a nice Christmas gift for me, a game called Cyberpunk. What the hell? I thought. Then I watched the news. And on our actual national news, in the main time slot, there was an item about how the game is broken and removed from the store. Along with glitchy footage. And two of our physical copy retailers have statements warning the consumers for the ps4/Xbox version. One also stated to have contacted CD projekt about refunds, though they haven't had many complaints yet.

And yes, I for sure feel bad for the actual developers at this point. Because after months of articles about the bad working environment, I can't imagine that will take a turn for the better with this situation and the fact they want to deliver PS5/series X versions.

Copying a quote from a coworker in my work gamers chat because I think it's interesting

vast majority of gamers are either on last gen consoles or PCs with something around 1060 level cards and middling processors. to put out a hotly anticipated game for the holidays that basically only runs well on stuff rich and/or lucky people have access to right now is the culmination of a lot of bullshit gaming industry practices and the general timbre of this whole year. combine that with the console review blackout and it's hard to see this as anything other than tricking the majority of gamers into subsidizing a game that's broken and only really works for "the 1%"

I don't really agree with the 1% part, but I can understand the frustration for a lot of these gamers who purchased a highly anticipated broken game.  It definitely feels more and more shady when I read about things like the review blackout on old consoles.  Makes me think they knew what they were doing.

Don't know about the 1%, and it depends on what someone deems acceptable, but overall he is not wrong at all. The game basically works well on higher end Nvidia cards and intel processors, but that in the end is a small percentage, even when only taking the PC market into account. Look at Steam hardware surveys or what cards have the largest marketshare, most PC gamers are far from high end. There is a reason why large electronic stores have a lot of prebuilt middling PC's on the floor, those sell the most (pricerange roughly around 500-1000 euros).

But on PC, crucially, there's a lot you can do to graphics and resolution settings to ensure the game is playable even on weaker systems (the game has a recommended minimum and I've not so far seen anything to say that it's been unplayable on that level of system like it is on the base last-gen consoles).

I do agree with your point, but no version comes out unscathed from what I am reading at least. A lot of reviewers say the game is a mess (but also very good) and basically all of them were on pc early on because that was the only version CDprojekt sent for testing. On PS4/Xbox One the game is getting reviews in the 3.0-5.0 range, the PC version most definitely does not seem like it is that.

In true Bethesda fashion though, fans are fixing stuff for them in a matter of days https://www.pcgamer.com/get-a-23-percent-performance-boost-in-cyberpunk-2077-on-amd-cpus/

I'd say PC is comparable to the messier AAA launches and the console versions are unprecidented, save for some of the really bad multiplayer games like Fallout 76.

Yeah I wasn't suggesting it was unscathed, but I read a number of the reviews which were all based on PC, and they were very consistent in saying that the game was buggy enough to make it less immersive at times, but never game breaking. And that was all pre day 1 patch which made it less buggy. I haven't played it yet but from what I've seen, on PC alone, it's far from the messiest launch and seems kind of average (perhaps slightly worse but not massively so) for modern large games. Which, I mean, I don't like that and it's why I pretty much never buy new games at launch because there are always problems of some kind or other, and playing them later on is both cheaper and just a much better experience. But it seems to be pretty industry standard these days. If that's all it had been, it seems pretty likely people would have played it anyway, they'd have released patches to improve it over the coming months and it'd end up being loved (much like Witcher 3). That might still happen - I hope so anyway. But the absolute catastrophe of the last-gen console launch has made it so high-profile that it'll probably always have a stigma attached to it no matter what now.

Yeah, I fully agree with that. And to be honest, I have enjoyed my fair share of very messy games. PS3 multiplatform games where something else at times. The only reason I am waiting is because there is no actual Series X version.

[Puppies_On_Acid]

Copying a quote from a coworker in my work gamers chat because I think it's interesting

vast majority of gamers are either on last gen consoles or PCs with something around 1060 level cards and middling processors. to put out a hotly anticipated game for the holidays that basically only runs well on stuff rich and/or lucky people have access to right now is the culmination of a lot of bullshit gaming industry practices and the general timbre of this whole year. combine that with the console review blackout and it's hard to see this as anything other than tricking the majority of gamers into subsidizing a game that's broken and only really works for "the 1%"

I don't really agree with the 1% part, but I can understand the frustration for a lot of these gamers who purchased a highly anticipated broken game.  It definitely feels more and more shady when I read about things like the review blackout on old consoles.  Makes me think they knew what they were doing.

Don't know about the 1%, and it depends on what someone deems acceptable, but overall he is not wrong at all. The game basically works well on higher end Nvidia cards and intel processors, but that in the end is a small percentage, even when only taking the PC market into account. Look at Steam hardware surveys or what cards have the largest marketshare, most PC gamers are far from high end. There is a reason why large electronic stores have a lot of prebuilt middling PC's on the floor, those sell the most (pricerange roughly around 500-1000 euros).

But on PC, crucially, there's a lot you can do to graphics and resolution settings to ensure the game is playable even on weaker systems (the game has a recommended minimum and I've not so far seen anything to say that it's been unplayable on that level of system like it is on the base last-gen consoles).

I do agree with your point, but no version comes out unscathed from what I am reading at least. A lot of reviewers say the game is a mess (but also very good) and basically all of them were on pc early on because that was the only version CDprojekt sent for testing. On PS4/Xbox One the game is getting reviews in the 3.0-5.0 range, the PC version most definitely does not seem like it is that.

In true Bethesda fashion though, fans are fixing stuff for them in a matter of days https://www.pcgamer.com/get-a-23-percent-performance-boost-in-cyberpunk-2077-on-amd-cpus/

I'd say PC is comparable to the messier AAA launches and the console versions are unprecidented, save for some of the really bad multiplayer games like Fallout 76.

Yeah I wasn't suggesting it was unscathed, but I read a number of the reviews which were all based on PC, and they were very consistent in saying that the game was buggy enough to make it less immersive at times, but never game breaking. And that was all pre day 1 patch which made it less buggy. I haven't played it yet but from what I've seen, on PC alone, it's far from the messiest launch and seems kind of average (perhaps slightly worse but not massively so) for modern large games. Which, I mean, I don't like that and it's why I pretty much never buy new games at launch because there are always problems of some kind or other, and playing them later on is both cheaper and just a much better experience. But it seems to be pretty industry standard these days. If that's all it had been, it seems pretty likely people would have played it anyway, they'd have released patches to improve it over the coming months and it'd end up being loved (much like Witcher 3). That might still happen - I hope so anyway. But the absolute catastrophe of the last-gen console launch has made it so high-profile that it'll probably always have a stigma attached to it no matter what now.

If CDPR sticks to their guns, this game could end up being a redemption arc similar to No Man's Sky. I have no reason to doubt that CDPR will pull it off.

Having said that, I think the game is awesome and have only encountered 1 bug and 0 crashes in the 20+ hours I've played so far, plus it runs perfectly fine on my PC. Outside of the obvious issues with the last gen console versions, I think a lot of the flak this game is getting is waaaay over exaggerated.

[Herrick]

If CDPR sticks to their guns, this game could end up being a redemption arc similar to No Man's Sky. I have no reason to doubt that CDPR will pull it off.

Having said that, I think the game is awesome and have only encountered 1 bug and 0 crashes in the 20+ hours I've played so far, plus it runs perfectly fine on my PC. Outside of the obvious issues with the last gen console versions, I think a lot of the flak this game is getting is waaaay over exaggerated.

My experience with this game is very similar to yours. I've had 1 maybe 2 crashes. The other bugs I've come across are funny visual things and they don't happen very often. We're of course playing a version of the game that's different than what was reviewed.

I've been in a gaming funk since around Thanksgiving. I barely played any games until Cyberpunk 2077 came out and I'm enjoying it a lot.

[cramx3]

Same as Puppies and Herrick but I know we are all running on solid PCs.  I've had game breaking bugs but only 1 actual crash that happened while I wasn't actually playing. The game was preloaded before actually playing but minimized, it also somehow broke my audio and I had to reboot my PC.  Most of my game breaking bugs involved me getting stuck in the polygons similar to what would happen sometimes in the Fallout games, however another time the graphics got stuck in a weird state after a side mission and it was playable but clearly broken until I restarted the game.

Having said that, the bugs I normally encounter are HILARIOUS.  I think it's one of the funniest parts of the game just encountering them.

Punching Fingers so much his body flies (main story mission warning FYI)
NPCs walking through a door I can't open
Person lands funny after being shot in the head while another NPC's finger is stuck in a can
Enemy commits suicide while charging at me
Unconscious person stands up on car door
Found car halfway into asphalt and it drove off away

[Herrick]

Cramx3 your post made me remember some other bugs. I've fallen through The World a bunch of times and got stuck once or twice. These are definitely game breaking bugs but to Herrick, a true game breaking bug prohibits all further progress in whatever quest/mission I'm doing. A reload of a previous game (and I manually save all the time) fixed those issues.

[cramx3]

Cramx3 your post made me remember some other bugs. I've fallen through The World a bunch of times and got stuck once or twice. These are definitely game breaking bugs but to Herrick, a true game breaking bug prohibits all further progress in whatever quest/mission I'm doing. A reload of a previous game (and I manually save all the time) fixed those issues.

True, but a previous game reload is also still required to fix these issues which I've had only a couple times. Those clips I posted were funny bugs, not game breakers

[Puppies_On_Acid]

Cramx3 your post made me remember some other bugs. I've fallen through The World a bunch of times and got stuck once or twice. These are definitely game breaking bugs but to Herrick, a true game breaking bug prohibits all further progress in whatever quest/mission I'm doing. A reload of a previous game (and I manually save all the time) fixed those issues.

True, but a previous game reload is also still required to fix these issues which I've had only a couple times. Those clips I posted were funny bugs, not game breakers

The only game breaking bug I've encountered where I had to actually reload a previous save, was the mission where the helicopter was supposed to land on the top of the building after you shoot all the guys, but the helicopter would never land.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Having said that, the bugs I normally encounter are HILARIOUS.  I think it's one of the funniest parts of the game just encountering them.

That's been the case for me too. Haven't encountered any gamebreaking bugs only minor ones. Most of them are harmless and funny. The only major bug was when I got stuck in a fixed 3rd person view with no head.  I just reloaded my last save to fix it.

[krands85]

No game-breaking bugs or even crashes for me on Series S, it's mainly just visual things so far, though I'm not very deep into the game yet.

Patch 1.05 is out now that should hopefully smooth out a few more issues.