Taylor Swift

[Stadler]

And, in keeping with Springsteen (and other "real" artists, like Dylan and Neil Young for two, there are others) isn't she entitled to do that?   If you are a fan of the ANTHEMIC Springsteen, you are not satisfied by being a first-day purchaser of everything he releases.  He's at the stage now where he has "pockets" of albums, and they cycle. 

This is his "major release" list since 1984 (almost FORTY YEARS):

Born in the U.S.A. (1984) - EPIC, traditional "E Street Band" album
Tunnel of Love (1987) - Stripped back, no E Street Band, and, according to some critics, was him "turning inward" in response to his FAILED MARRIAGE to Julienne Phillips (quotes from wikipedia, caps mine)
Human Touch/Lucky Town (1992) - Much maligned, much more positive (happy) songs, these two albums are not high points in the fandom.
The Ghost of Tom Joad (1995) - Complete left turn, an acoustic folk album.
The Rising (2002) - A return to "Springsteen^TM", the EPIC statement album with the E Street Band (in response to 9/11)
Devils & Dust (2005) - Oops, not so fast!  Back to the solo-ish acoustic record!
We Shall Overcome: The Seeger Sessions (2006) - Vanity project, celebrating both his roots and his now status as American spokesperson in the folk tradition.
Magic (2007) - Back to the EPIC!
Working on a Dream (2009) - Third of an unofficial trilogy of EPICS!
Wrecking Ball (2012) - Hodge-podge of sort of the epic, but not really, and the Seeger sessions; maybe call this his 'personal version of the vanity project'.  Not your traditional Springsteen record.
High Hopes (2014) - Not really a "new" album per se, with outtakes, re-recordings and cover songs.
Western Stars (2019) - Soundtrack to an imaginary western!!!
Letter to You (2020) - I don't know; the evolution of the "EPIC"?  The "EPIC at 70"?  The "COVID EPIC"?   
Only the Strong Survive (2022) - Covers and homage album


I think this record may be Taylor's Tunnel Of Love.  We won't know until it all pans out. I do think that reports of her demise are greatly exaggerated. 

[soupytwist]

I think it's her Load/Reload, 21 Century Breakdown,  Be Here Now,  Erotica,  Monster,  Hail to the Thief,  Tusk etc...   An album released at near peak populatity that will in time be regarded as a somewhat middling release - so yeah I agree with Stads on Tunnel of Love.

[Zook]

Now that I've heard this album a gazillion times, and the songs have their own identity, I can say it's better than Midnights, but that isn't saying much. Honestly I don't know if I've heard every song but it seems that way. Guilty as Sin is still the best one I've heard, and it's miles above Anti Hero. Why it wasn't the first single or a single at all is baffling. Down Bad is pretty bad though. Not Bad Blood bad, but just another Taylor trying to be edgy with the swearing songs. Does this album have a parental advisory sticker because I'm pretty sure there are more than 11 f-bombs which I believe is the minimum before they slap the sticker on.

[MirrorMask]

Any artist, in the end, reaches a plateau where new albums, no matter how good, don't make their mark like they used to.

I was never really a fan of U2, but if I take a look at their discography, in the earlier albums there's always a song or two that I recognize, if only by name. From Zooropa onwards, I look at the tracklists of their albums an there's nothing I recognize.

Heck, even Lady Gaga, the other pop artist that could have somehow drawn me to her music, the last I've heard of her was the Joanne album and that's just because it's not so dance-y, I know quite some songs from that album, but after? I know she made an album after that, but I never heard a song from it and I couldn't tell you in which year it came out. In comparison, it was impossible to escape Paparazzi or Bad Romance. What's the latest and most recent "it's impossible you never heard it" song from Lady Gaga?

Up until the Folklore / Evermore albums my general perception is that Taylor was churning out milestone after milestone, classic album after classic album. Now the gut feeling is that The Tortured Poets Department won't be able to give to the world that one song that "everybody" knows. I don't think there's even an Anti-hero on this album has it has been discussed above.

Overall I like the album, so I'm not criticizing the album itself, but I think Taylor might have reached that moment in her carreer where, no matter how big you are, the super mega classic albums with that famous song "everybody" knows are past behind her. Again, not a critic, it happens to everyone sooner or later, my understanding is that most of the folks here like the reunion era of Iron Maiden, but post Brave New World, what's the song that had the relative crossover success of The Wicker Man? forget Fear of the Dark or even the '80s classics, which song from Iron Maiden after The Wicker Man was bigger than that? I daresay no one, which, again, doesn't take away from the quality of the later albums, but nobody manages to churn out instant classics, setlist staples, everybody-knows-them songs for an infinite amount of time.

[HOF]

We're listening to it now in the car on a road trip. First time hearing most of it. Haven't really picked up on anything interesting yet. Feels a bit like she had a bunch of lyrics to put out but not a lot of musical inspiration. Could see it being a grower maybe, but it's certainly not immediate. Midnights I thought was pretty immediately catchy with several songs I liked off the bat.

[MoraWintersoul]

I think it's her Load/Reload, 21 Century Breakdown,  Be Here Now,  Erotica,  Monster,  Hail to the Thief,  Tusk etc...   An album released at near peak populatity that will in time be regarded as a somewhat middling release - so yeah I agree with Stads on Tunnel of Love.

Yeah, I agree with you on this one. I think the diehards will forget about this album more or less as soon as a new album comes out that has some elements of TTPD that they like and connect to, plus music that really hits. I don't remember if anyone here is a pre-Folklore Swiftie or Swiftie-adjacent, but I remember that when Lover came out people were clinging really hard to whatever aspects of it they actually liked and discussing only those ad nauseam, and then only after Folklore and Evermore came out they were like THANK GOD THAT ERA IS OVER. There is a bit of a reluctance to admit you don't vibe with the newest album that much and/or insisting it's a misunderstood masterpiece in these more mainstream music fanbases, we've seen that over and over with all of the pop girls; off the top of my head Gaga, Ariana, Miley all had "partial miss" albums like that. When every new album is a cultural moment, it hurts to stand a bit outside it, especially if you really like the artist and want to be a part. Not that this necessarily applies to everyone who likes the album, but the wider mood of the fanbase and the way they discuss it seems to point in that direction.

[KevShmev]

A lot of good points being made.

MoraWintersoul, fair points, and this goes back to the standard that applies to every band/artist, in that every album you make gets compared to your earlier ones, rather than being judged in a vaccum on its own.  Fair or not, it's just the way it is.  And with so many heavyweights in her catalogue prior, it's a tough standard to meet every single time out.

HOF, to reiterate, this album is a major grower. Some stuff hit me right away, but quite a bit of it took multiple listens for me to really get it. This is her anti-1989 (1989 is loaded with instantly catchy songs, this one not so much).

Bill/Stadler, I have heard that many Bruce fans have much affection for Tunnel of Love, but I have never heard that album outside of the title track, which is one of the Bruce songs I do like a lot, as a casual fan at the very best.  What other songs are notable from that record? (knowing that always gives me a good starting point)

MirrorMask, while I think much of that is fair, despite its lofty status now, Folklore seems to be remember now as a whole; it doesn't really have that one song either that "everyone" knows.  I still hear Willow from Evermore on the modern radio station at work, but it's been a long time since I've heard anything from Folklore get played. 

[MirrorMask]

As another Bruce fan, I consider Tougher than the Rest (especially the live versions which are generally slower) and Brilliant Disguise the higlights of Tunnel of Love.

[KevShmev]

I guess it shows how often I don't peruse through the Bruce songs in my iTunes, as I do have Brilliant Disguise already.  I gave it a fresh listen and dug it.  I'll check out Tougher Than the Rest as well!

[MirrorMask]

The girl is back in town! Taylor plays Milan tonight and tomorrow, there are people camping since a week outside the stadium 

I will not be there, but if for whatever reason someone offered me a ticket, I would have jumped at the opportunity.

The public transports company of Milan issued some info for the show using Taylor's quotes 

"Midnight, you come and pick me up" (about the subway running until 1 AM)

"Shake it off" (about worries for the queue to buy subway tickets, they can use credit cards)

"Can I go where you go?" (about which subway stations to use)

"Grab my hand" (about a guide to move around the town)

All of this has been called "ATM's version", ATM being the name of the transports company 

[hefdaddy42]

I would just like to say that Tunnel of Love is a really good album.

[KevShmev]

The girl is back in town! Taylor plays Milan tonight and tomorrow, there are people camping since a week outside the stadium 

I will not be there, but if for whatever reason someone offered me a ticket, I would have jumped at the opportunity.

The public transports company of Milan issued some info for the show using Taylor's quotes 

"Midnight, you come and pick me up" (about the subway running until 1 AM)

"Shake it off" (about worries for the queue to buy subway tickets, they can use credit cards)

"Can I go where you go?" (about which subway stations to use)

"Grab my hand" (about a guide to move around the town)

All of this has been called "ATM's version", ATM being the name of the transports company 

I know the charts are meaningless to some, but it's worth noting that The Tortured Poets Department is on the verge of being number 1 on the Billboard 200 for the 12th consecutive week (where it debuted), which would be a first by a female artist.  Not bad for a supposed "flop" record, eh?

[MirrorMask]

Speaking of the latest album, after sitting with it for a while and with the help of the gargantuan amount of remixes and alternative version popping up online, just like for Midnights I created "Mirrormask's version" of the album, with the songs I like the most. One YouTube user named Gian Carlo Torres added louder drums and little bits to most of the song so I used many of his remixes, they're not perfect and the drums are too loud but they add a nice punch and "heaviness" to the song. Another Youtuber, Matt Ebenezer, provided two rock remixes ironically for two of my lesser favorite songs in their original form.

So, here's the custom version of the album I'll probably be listening from now on:

THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT

01. Fortnight (rock version)
02. The Tortured Poets Department (original)
03. My Boy Only Breaks his Favorite Toys (original, don't like it particularly anyway but just enough to keep it)
04. So Long, London (piano only version)
05. But Daddy, I Love Him (first part acoustic, then the "enhanced" version)
06. Florida!!! (original but second half enhanced with louder drums)
07. Guilty As Sin (enhanced)
08. Who's Afraid of Little Old Me (enhanced to make it more like the live version)
09. loml (original)
10. I Can Do It with a Broken Heart (rock version)
11. The Smallest Man who Ever Lived (enhanced to make it more like the live version)
12. Clara Bow (oiriginal but I kept the "louder drums" remix for the central verse)

THE ANTHOLOGY (all songs original 'cause they're fine and Folklore-ish just as they are)

01. The Black Dog
02. The Albatross
03. Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus
04. How Did It End?
05. I Hate it Here
06. I Look in People's Windows
07. Cassandra
08. Robin
09. Peter
10. The Manuscript


Down Bad was in the original tracklist but I sacked it after I found the rock version for Broken Heart, whose album original version I just cannot stand. For the longest time I had Thank You Aimee in the Anthology tracklist but then I got bored of the petty lyrics and brought Robin back, making the only change to the original tracklist (if you notice I just skipped songs I don't like mantaining the original order) 'cause I love Peter and I think it deserved to be the emotional climax of the anthology before wrapping it all up with the Manuscript.

I also think that Who's Afraid of Little Old Me overtook Florida as my favorite song on the album. The Albatross and I Hate It Here are the most Folklore song on the anthology, not for nothing Taylor did a mashup - "I hate it here so take me to the lakes where all the poets went to die" live.

It all clocks just shy of 90 minutes (if I remember correctly 49 the "regular" album, 37 the anthology) so it's also much more digestible 

[KevShmev]

Those rock cover versions of her songs are sometimes good, yes.  The below cover of Mirrorball from Folklore is very nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPUh6zLKsFA

But I am not really sold on any I have heard from the new album, as too many go with ordinary rock instrumentation/arrangements to make them interesting to me at all.  Quite a few songs already have a bit of a rock vibe built in (as released by Taylor), and I don't think most needed any more.

The only song from TTPD I can say I don't really like is imgonnagetyouback.  I don't think it's a bad song per se, but it just feels a bit too ordinary. 

My favorites are still ever-changing, but if I had to pick some from each disc, I'd say:

Main Disc:
My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys (this is my most-listened-to song from the record based on my digital plays)
Who's Afraid of Little Old Me
But Daddy I Love Him (this has went from one I like to a favorite recently)
Guilty as Sin?
Fresh Out the Slammer (the ways he sings, "... toss the ashes off the ledge," at the start of the second verse gives me goosebumps every time I hear it)

But of course I also love So Long, London, Florida!!!, The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived, the title track, etc.  So many good ones!

Anthology Disc:
Peter (this was an instant favorite, and I still think it's one of the best songs she's ever written)
The Prophecy
How Did It End?
I Hate It Here
The Manuscript

The Black Dog has been making a strong push lately, though.  I was a bit ambivalent about that one at first, but I am really digging it now.

[Dream Team]

Watching the Kelce Bros podcast (an awesome podcast btw, don't listen to the haters) and they were saying her shows were like 3 or 3.5 hours long? Wow, gotta give her kudos for that, that's a tremendous amount of energy and effort, especially if there is no lip-syncing going on.

[KevShmev]

I've never watched their podcast, but I have seen random clips, and they always seem very entertaining.  I used to think Travis was just a meathhead jock, but he and his brother both seem like good dudes.

Yep, each show on this tour has been 3 hours and 15 minutes (or a tough longer depending on if she adds an extra song or one of the surprise songs is longer), and it was reported that she prepares for the shows by doing 3+ hours of cardio every day on the treadmill and paces her training based on the set (she walks on the treadmill for the slower songs, runs for the faster songs, etc.).  She is in crazy good shape, you can tell.  There are often clips on Twitter of her waving to fans backstage after the shows, and while she is always a sweaty mess, she never looks like she's huffing and puffing despite having just performed for over 3 hours with no break (there are no dual sets or encores; it's a 3-hour show with no real breaks outside of 1-2 minute interludes when it moves from era to the next).

She doesn't lip synch, but there are definitely backing tracks on the dancier songs.  Plus, she has four backup singers, the same ones she has had for years.  There are many "errors" tour clips online, ya know, little mistakes and glitches that inevitably happen at live shows, and they often show that she is always singing live. For example, there was one clip where something unexpected happened and you could hear her trying not to laugh as she was singing. I am sure the "everything has to always be live" rockists will always have a little problem with any artist who uses a little help live, especially ones that aren't rock, but it's not a big deal to me.

[MirrorMask]

She doesn't lip synch, but there are definitely backing tracks on the dancier songs.  Plus, she has four backup singers, the same ones she has had for years.

This makes more sense, watching the show on Disney+ I had my doubts if for the dancey-st songs she was really singing it all,  but backing tracks and help from the other singers makes more sense.

As I previously said, where do I have to sing to have any metal show from one of my favorite bands lasting three hours and counting, with different sets for different albums and getting an acoustic interlude different each night? the obvious obstacle is the nature of the best - heavy metal songs are more physically demanding to play and they're also longer. DT with Score did their own mini version of.... DT eras, and in three hours they barely reached 20 songs (if we split up Six Degrees as individual songs).

This is not to take away from Taylor, she is still walking and dancing all around the stage for three hours and probably she's the one who has the toughest of it all out there since not all the musicians have to play everything (and when they do, it's no This Dying Soul final solo multiplied for 15 songs) but she's singing everything and she doesn't have a drum solo to give her a break - if anything, it's the BAND that gets a  break during the acoustic songs!

Anyway, just like I would loooove to see everything from every angle that goes on backstage at a Maiden show, I would definitively watch a documentary of the behind the scenes from this tour. The rehearsals, how she gets into position, the little tricks to remember what she has to do, where and when, how the costume changes are made (I assume there's a bunch of female attendants stripping her and clothing her again like if she's a F1 car  ), and more generally all the things that go on backstage at the show. Included the mattress that has to be there to wait for her when she "jumps into the water" at the end of the acoustic interlude 

[KevShmev]

This makes more sense, watching the show on Disney+ I had my doubts if for the dancey-st songs she was really singing it all,  but backing tracks and help from the other singers makes more sense.

As I previously said, where do I have to sing to have any metal show from one of my favorite bands lasting three hours and counting, with different sets for different albums and getting an acoustic interlude different each night? the obvious obstacle is the nature of the best - heavy metal songs are more physically demanding to play and they're also longer. DT with Score did their own mini version of.... DT eras, and in three hours they barely reached 20 songs (if we split up Six Degrees as individual songs).

This is not to take away from Taylor, she is still walking and dancing all around the stage for three hours and probably she's the one who has the toughest of it all out there since not all the musicians have to play everything (and when they do, it's no This Dying Soul final solo multiplied for 15 songs) but she's singing everything and she doesn't have a drum solo to give her a break - if anything, it's the BAND that gets a  break during the acoustic songs!

Anyway, just like I would loooove to see everything from every angle that goes on backstage at a Maiden show, I would definitively watch a documentary of the behind the scenes from this tour. The rehearsals, how she gets into position, the little tricks to remember what she has to do, where and when, how the costume changes are made (I assume there's a bunch of female attendants stripping her and clothing her again like if she's a F1 car  ), and more generally all the things that go on backstage at the show. Included the mattress that has to be there to wait for her when she "jumps into the water" at the end of the acoustic interlude 

I'd be surprised if we get a documentary of any behind the scenes stuff from the Eras tour, as I suspect she is someone who likes to leave a little mystery as to how and why certain things happen a certain way, rather than showing it all, similar to how she almost never talks about what her songs are about (although fans sure love to speculate hahaha). I think we are much more likely to get a documentary of the TV project once her versions of the debut and Reputation get released.  That could be really fun to see.

Back to the singing, I'd have to dig it up, but someone posted a good cell phone shot from one of the front rows at one of the Seattle shows (it is up on Youtube, but under a totally unrecognizable name, obviously to prevent it from being pulled down).  She sounded good, but there were a few times where she hit flat note or two (LIVE...oh, the tragedy ), which were "yep, she is definitely singing live" moments.

[Stadler]

This makes more sense, watching the show on Disney+ I had my doubts if for the dancey-st songs she was really singing it all,  but backing tracks and help from the other singers makes more sense.

As I previously said, where do I have to sing to have any metal show from one of my favorite bands lasting three hours and counting, with different sets for different albums and getting an acoustic interlude different each night? the obvious obstacle is the nature of the best - heavy metal songs are more physically demanding to play and they're also longer. DT with Score did their own mini version of.... DT eras, and in three hours they barely reached 20 songs (if we split up Six Degrees as individual songs).

I don't think that's true at all. At least not necessarily.   YOu're not telling me Lemmy is exerting that much more - if ANYTHING more - than Taylor Swift. 

And "longer" doesn't mean anything here; if you're singing for three hours and it's 10 songs or 20 songs, what's the difference? If anything, it's easier in a metal/prog show, since there are likely more instrumental interludes or even entire instrumental songs.  Taylor doesn't have any instrumentals that I know of.

This is not to take away from Taylor, she is still walking and dancing all around the stage for three hours and probably she's the one who has the toughest of it all out there since not all the musicians have to play everything (and when they do, it's no This Dying Soul final solo multiplied for 15 songs) but she's singing everything and she doesn't have a drum solo to give her a break - if anything, it's the BAND that gets a  break during the acoustic songs!

Anyway, just like I would loooove to see everything from every angle that goes on backstage at a Maiden show, I would definitively watch a documentary of the behind the scenes from this tour. The rehearsals, how she gets into position, the little tricks to remember what she has to do, where and when, how the costume changes are made (I assume there's a bunch of female attendants stripping her and clothing her again like if she's a F1 car  ), and more generally all the things that go on backstage at the show. Included the mattress that has to be there to wait for her when she "jumps into the water" at the end of the acoustic interlude 

I sat stage right for the recent Maiden show in Worcester and I could see everything back stage.  It was like staging a play, actually.  It was way cool.

[KevShmev]

I don't think that's true at all. At least not necessarily.  YOu're not telling me Lemmy is exerting that much more - if ANYTHING more - than Taylor Swift. 

And "longer" doesn't mean anything here; if you're singing for three hours and it's 10 songs or 20 songs, what's the difference? If anything, it's easier in a metal/prog show, since there are likely more instrumental interludes or even entire instrumental songs.  Taylor doesn't have any instrumentals that I know of.

Agreed. And this is where someone like Madonna, whose last tour featured no band or players on stage (all music at those shows was pre-recorded), gives pop a bad name (in rock fan circles, at least), as people then think all pop stars do stuff like that.  Many do, I get it, but Swift doesn't fall into that category.  Her band plays live the entire show on the Eras tour (they are in the corners of both sides of the main stage), and she sings the entire show, while also being very active.  It's gotta be a major workout every night for everyone on that tour.

[MirrorMask]

Oh that's for sure. I was just thinking of "copying and pasting" the approach of the tour - 3 hours and a half, changing sets, an acoustic slot - to a metal show and I was imagining how it could be. I still think that when you're into the 3rd hour of the show, playing Anti-Hero has to be less demanding than playing Master of Puppets, and she has no Aces High to belt out at the very end of the set.

But yeah, what she and the band achieve is absolutely impressive. And good point Stadler on the singing - yeah, she doesn't have to hit a F# every night, but she has no breaks either since the songs don't really have long solos. And the only break in the show it's for the band, not for her, since she sings the acoustic songs.

[Lonk]

I'm not throwing accusations, as I have nothing to base this on, but sometimes lip synching is easy to disguise and hard to spot. I'm not saying she is lip synching, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if she does for certain parts of songs to get some rest during the show.

[KevShmev]

Oh that's for sure. I was just thinking of "copying and pasting" the approach of the tour - 3 hours and a half, changing sets, an acoustic slot - to a metal show and I was imagining how it could be. I still think that when you're into the 3rd hour of the show, playing Anti-Hero has to be less demanding than playing Master of Puppets, and she has no Aces High to belt out at the very end of the set.

But yeah, what she and the band achieve is absolutely impressive. And good point Stadler on the singing - yeah, she doesn't have to hit a F# every night, but she has no breaks either since the songs don't really have long solos. And the only break in the show it's for the band, not for her, since she sings the acoustic songs.

There are some, but most of her songs don't have any solos.  She plays around a lot with the classic 3-5 minute arrangement (she will sometimes turn what you think is the bridge into the outro that ends the song, or will end the song with a revisiting of a verse), but if solos and instrumental sections are must-have's for some in music, then Taylor Swift's music is not the place to look.  Her songs usually tend to be pretty vocal-heavy, that's for sure. 

I do think comparing her to DT or Maiden is an apples and oranges thing, though.  No, she doesn't have an Aces High or F# to belt out, but neither of those bands can get crowds of 75,000 people to sing along word for word to a deep cut on a regular basis (crowds in Brazil notwithstanding ).  The fan engagement and communal experience at the Swift show I saw and experienced 14 months ago was unlike anything else I've ever witnessed in nearly 35 years of concert going.

[hefdaddy42]

YOu're not telling me Lemmy is exerting that much more - if ANYTHING more - than Taylor Swift.

I am not.  Frankly, that would seem highly unlikely at this point.

[Stadler]

I am not.  Frankly, that would seem highly unlikely at this point.

Fair observation.

[nick_z]

Those rock cover versions of her songs are sometimes good, yes.  The below cover of Mirrorball from Folklore is very nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPUh6zLKsFA

But I am not really sold on any I have heard from the new album, as too many go with ordinary rock instrumentation/arrangements to make them interesting to me at all.  Quite a few songs already have a bit of a rock vibe built in (as released by Taylor), and I don't think most needed any more.

The only song from TTPD I can say I don't really like is imgonnagetyouback.  I don't think it's a bad song per se, but it just feels a bit too ordinary. 

My favorites are still ever-changing, but if I had to pick some from each disc, I'd say:

Main Disc:
My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys (this is my most-listened-to song from the record based on my digital plays)
Who's Afraid of Little Old Me
But Daddy I Love Him (this has went from one I like to a favorite recently)
Guilty as Sin?
Fresh Out the Slammer (the ways he sings, "... toss the ashes off the ledge," at the start of the second verse gives me goosebumps every time I hear it)

But of course I also love So Long, London, Florida!!!, The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived, the title track, etc.  So many good ones!

Anthology Disc:
Peter (this was an instant favorite, and I still think it's one of the best songs she's ever written)
The Prophecy
How Did It End?
I Hate It Here
The Manuscript

The Black Dog has been making a strong push lately, though.  I was a bit ambivalent about that one at first, but I am really digging it now.

Roughly three months in, I can say I'm enjoying this more and more. I actually find it to be incredibly consistent and full of highlights. One thing that really surprised me is how much the Anthology portion has grown on me. Repeat listens really make the melodies stick.

Kev, I think you had mentioned it before, but the run from But Daddy... to Who's Afraid of Little Old Me on the main album is something. I still consider Guilty as Sin? as my favorite, if I had to pick one. Who's Afraid is almost...cinematic...? Really interesting how she carries the song , and the variations in the ways she sings the chorus, for example.

Agreed on the highlights on the Anthology portion. Funnily enough, while the concept is a bit eyeroll-worthy, I really enjoy thanK you aIMee musically. I would definitely add The Bolter to the list. Oh, and as I mentioned before, you should check out Paramore's song Misguided Ghosts (appropriate, since they are supporting the tour now) - if you like (as I do!) I Hate It Here, you'll find a similar mood in that one.

[KevShmev]

Roughly three months in, I can say I'm enjoying this more and more. I actually find it to be incredibly consistent and full of highlights. One thing that really surprised me is how much the Anthology portion has grown on me. Repeat listens really make the melodies stick.

I couldn't agree more! The consistency of the record is quite stunning.  When looking at the album as The Anthology (the 2-disc version), I honestly now think it is her best album.

Kev, I think you had mentioned it before, but the run from But Daddy... to Who's Afraid of Little Old Me on the main album is something. I still consider Guilty as Sin? as my favorite, if I had to pick one. Who's Afraid is almost...cinematic...? Really interesting how she carries the song , and the variations in the ways she sings the chorus, for example.

Agreed. A lot of the album has a cinematic feel to me, but Who's Afraid... especially.  Guilty as Sin? wasn't a favorite of mine early on, but it continues to slowly rise.  I love how she manages to talk about emotional cheating and self-gratification in a very poetic way, to where it doesn't seem gratuitous at all. Her knack with words and her storytelling still stuns me more often than not.

Agreed on the highlights on the Anthology portion. Funnily enough, while the concept is a bit eyeroll-worthy, I really enjoy thanK you aIMee musically. I would definitely add The Bolter to the list. Oh, and as I mentioned before, you should check out Paramore's song Misguided Ghosts (appropriate, since they are supporting the tour now) - if you like (as I do!) I Hate It Here, you'll find a similar mood in that one.

Noted on the Paramore.

I am fine with the concept for Thank You Aimee. It's a bit of an FU for sure, but it's also a bit of a thank you for the hard times because look at me now! And the melodies are so good in that song that I cannot help but love it.

[Dream Team]

Based on stuff you very astute guys have said in this and other threads, I feel like I have to walk back on some comments I've made over the years. You see, the thing is when you don't pay attention to modern pop because it's not in your wheelhouse, all you hear since the 90s is oh Backstreet Boys and N Sync are the greatest pop stars ever, oh no wait it's Britney Spe - no now it's Aguilera, no now Katy Perry and Gaga are the greatest ever, oh no wait now it's Beyoncé. One tends just to roll their eyes as the years progress but it seems Taylor is different.

[hefdaddy42]

Based on stuff you very astute guys have said in this and other threads, I feel like I have to walk back on some comments I've made over the years. You see, the thing is when you don't pay attention to modern pop because it's not in your wheelhouse, all you hear since the 90s is oh Backstreet Boys and N Sync are the greatest pop stars ever, oh no wait it's Britney Spe - no now it's Aguilera, no now Katy Perry and Gaga are the greatest ever, oh no wait now it's Beyoncé. One tends just to roll their eyes as the years progress but it seems Taylor is different.

I've never heard any of those things.

[KevShmev]

I get it.  I don't have a positive opinion of most of the modern pop music I've heard (and I hear plenty of it at work), but there are a few major exceptions for me (Swift, Rodridgo, Del Rey).

I will put it this way by relaying experiences with family and friends in real life.  I talk music a lot with many, and most were more than a bit surprised at the revelation that I was suddenly a Taylor Swift fan, but most were like, "but that's cool."  There were two exceptions, one family member and one friend, both of whom took the "really? What is wrong with you?" stance more or less, and these are two people with whom I have a lot in common when it comes to musical tastes, so my comment to both (neither of whom have ever actually listened to Swift outside of a song here and there, and definitely not with open minds) was along the lines of, "Given that we have fairly similar music tastses in general, if I like Taylor Swift, instead of thinking I lost my mind or something, maybe consider that there is a lot there."  Not saying they have to like her music, but I would think I have enough "musical taste equity" built up due to many shared musical interests/likes with both that my fandom should maybe be something of which to take notice, no?

And I would extend that to this forum as well. Given that this is a forum for Dream Theater, I think it goes without saying that all of us here like music that is, shall we say, challenging, thus we are not part of what consider the mindless mainstream sheep who just like whatever is on the radio, so if there are a bunch of us here who are fans, maybe consider that there might just be a "there" there.  Not saying you have to like her or her music, but understanding rather than being derisive or dismissive would seem to be a more forum-friendly way to go. Just my two cents.  

[MirrorMask]

I will put it this way by relaying experiences with family and friends in real life.  I talk music a lot with many, and most were more than a bit surprised at the revelation that I was suddenly a Taylor Swift fan, but most were like, "but that's cool."  There were two exceptions, one family member and one friend, both of whom took the "really? What is wrong with you?" stance more or less

You're basically describing a coming out 

But yeah, I get what Dream Team is saying. I think I've left in my teen years my "death to false metal, everything that isn't metal sucks" phase, but sometimes I might have my elitist moments, and the plastic and soulless world of pop sometimes "justifies" in thinking stuff like "whatever, when these morons who are the hit of the moment will be long gone Iron Maiden will STILL be touring".

If I didn't know Taylor, I probably woud have been annoyed as well at the over exposure of her italian concert, but now that I know her, I "get" why people are so into her, and I'll try to remember that for other stuff I just don't like or don't care for.

As I previously said, while I try hard to not be a musical snob I often thought that pop fans wouldn't know what they were missing with Iron Maiden - what do you know about the songs, Eddie, the backdrops, the Trooper flag, the pyros etc.... well, turns out that maybe it's me who don't know about 3 hours show, the changing scenery, the acoustic surprises, the costume changes, and all of those things that make people walk away from a Taylor Swift concert thinking "wow, she's the absolute best, I pity those who don't love her" just like I think the exact same thing as I walk away from a Maiden concert 

[The Curious Orange]

I'm a big metal guy, but you can't listen to that crap all the time. I've always had space for something a bit more laid back to listen to on Sunday evenings - Joni Mitchell, Fleetwood Mac, Kate Bush, Suzanne Vega. Swift fits quite nicely into that vibe, and while some of her lyrics are a bit cringeworthy, sure, it's pleasant enough. It's found a way into my regular chill-out rotation, and that's something few artists do.

[KevShmev]

You're basically describing a coming out 
 

   (especially after re-reading what I wrote)

But yeah, I get what Dream Team is saying. I think I've left in my teen years my "death to false metal, everything that isn't metal sucks" phase, but sometimes I might have my elitist moments, and the plastic and soulless world of pop sometimes "justifies" in thinking stuff like "whatever, when these morons who are the hit of the moment will be long gone Iron Maiden will STILL be touring".

If I didn't know Taylor, I probably woud have been annoyed as well at the over exposure of her italian concert, but now that I know her, I "get" why people are so into her, and I'll try to remember that for other stuff I just don't like or don't care for.

As I previously said, while I try hard to not be a musical snob I often thought that pop fans wouldn't know what they were missing with Iron Maiden - what do you know about the songs, Eddie, the backdrops, the Trooper flag, the pyros etc.... well, turns out that maybe it's me who don't know about 3 hours show, the changing scenery, the acoustic surprises, the costume changes, and all of those things that make people walk away from a Taylor Swift concert thinking "wow, she's the absolute best, I pity those who don't love her" just like I think the exact same thing as I walk away from a Maiden concert 

Music fans in general are far too tribalistic if you ask me.  Loyalty to a genre can be crippling as a music fan, and I say that from experience as I used to be guilty of it myself.  There is no way I would have gotten into Swift in my 20s and maybe not even in my 30s.  It took time for me to really be totally open to music that was not in my normal wheelhouse.

All it takes is re-reading the first few pages of this thread to see where my journey with her started. I didn't expect to love her music this much.  It went from "Okay, she seems to have a few good songs" to "Okay, she is a lot better than I realized" to "Okay, she is pretty awesome and has a ton of great songs" over a matter of several months.  As I always say, I don't pick what music I love; it picks me.  If I like it, it will find its way into my music listening time.  If I don't like it, it won't.  And no one has found more time in my "CD player" in the last 3+ years than Swift. 

And it's generally not the straight pop stuff I listen to. A lot of her hits play at work, and I often think that these are not the songs I normally listen to.  Even when I am in the mood for her pop, I am far more likely to go for Reputation or Midnights over 1989 (which is great from start to finish for what it is, but I tend to listen to songs from that rather than the album from start to finish). 

[hefdaddy42]

Loyalty to a genre can be crippling as a music fan

Amen and amen

[LithoJazzoSphere]

It still varies depending upon which corner of the internet you're looking into, but there's definitely been some progress in accepting other forms of music.  Mid-00s I remember being the peak era of elitism among fans of metal, prog, and more experimental music.  The most challenging listen for a lot of them wasn't lo-fi black metal, technical death metal, harsh noise, etc., but rather to accept that a simple, mainstream pop song can be good.