Identifying As A Furry?

[pg1067]

Three times in the last 6 months, parents have gone ballistic with the school system and board because their child identifies as a furry. The parents want special treatment such as litter boxes. When I heard this I thought my wife's friend was pulling our leg so I Googled it. Crazy.

I clicked on this thread because of the bizarre subject header....  And I haven't googled anything or read any of the comments, but....  What the actual fuck?

[emtee]

Not sure why some seem to be deliberately misreading what emtee wrote and are putting words into his mouth, but you might try reading and addressing what he actually posted rather than projecting something else onto it.

I assume this is directed at me.

emtee said

Three times in the last 6 months, parents have gone ballistic with the school system and board because their child identifies as a furry. The parents want special treatment such as litter boxes. When I heard this I thought my wife's friend was pulling our leg so I Googled it. Crazy.

I asked for the google results that backed up the claim that "parents want special treatment such as litter boxes" and I've yet to see it.

And he clearly said this was NOT something he found online, but was something that someone who was present at the meetings actually witnessed in person, so asking for Internet searches has nothing to do with what he is talking about. 

Maybe he actually is mistaken, or the person he talked about is.  But you are completely talking past what he said and raising issues that have nothing to do with his post.

I respectfully am not seeing it that way.

What are the issues in his post? His wife's friend works for someone who is making claims. Claims that are being propagated by this train of he-said-she-said. We have one person's word to go one here.

The original post said "So many questions arise about parenting and what kind of damage this does, if any, in the development of a child...BTW, these kids were in 8th grade. She said these parents were on the verge of violence if the school didn't recognize their kids as furries and make the requested provisions."

I'm claiming (I could be entirely wrong) there were no such threats of violence, and am merely pointing out that every similar claim to this point has been debunked.

If this is a thread on whether or not letting your kid be a furry is damaging to childhood development, fine. I'll bow out now and shut up. But that's not how the original post read. This thread was started specifically to address "parents were on the verge of violence if the school didn't recognize their kids as furries and make the requested provisions" and "Three times in the last 6 months, parents have gone ballistic with the school system and board because their child identifies as a furry. The parents want special treatment such as litter boxes. When I heard this... .


I'm arguing, based on everything I've found on Google up to this point, nobody is requesting such provisions.

You are wrong. My wife's friend is making the claim. Directly to my wife and I during a conversation.

[emtee]

The claim is anti-trans and it isn't hard to see that while it is possible that someone called up a school and asked for a litter box for their child - the likelihood this was a pathetic attempt to mock trans-kids in schools having accommodations was the intended goal of such a call.  Fear and hatred is just that prevalent out there.

It is easy to do a Google search and see that the Michigan school superintendent has said that this story about litter box requests for school kids is false.  And it only takes a few clicks to find if one wants to check it out.

This isn't even the same school. You jumped to an incorrect conclusion and in doing so, call into question my integrity as well as that of someone I have known for over 40 years.

I did no such thing.  I even gave your friend an out by saying people could have called into the school as a way to push their own agenda.  Maybe try re-reading what I posted again and refrain from jumping to false conclusions.

If you have any evidence aside from hearsay that this is an issue in ANY school in Michigan I'd be certainly happy to read it.

You seem very angry and defensive. Have I done something to aggravate you?

Your conclusion, in all caps, "DEBUNKED" is a false statement in regard to this. This was not and is not a public matter. I already explained the circumstances. Private meeting between school leaders, executive secretary and parents. I don't care if you believe it. Your free to your own thoughts and opinions.

[Lethean]

Three times in the last 6 months, parents have gone ballistic with the school system and board because their child identifies as a furry. The parents want special treatment such as litter boxes. When I heard this I thought my wife's friend was pulling our leg so I Googled it. Crazy.

I clicked on this thread because of the bizarre subject header....  And I haven't googled anything or read any of the comments, but....  What the actual fuck?

Yeah this is what I'm thinking as well....

[El Barto]

This kind of makes me wonder what James O'Keeffe's latest project is.

Emptee: I think part of the problem is that by posting this you made it seem like it was a real thing happening everywhere that needs to be addressed. While that may not have been your intention, manufactured outrage is all the rage right now, and this is exactly the sort of moral panic I'd expect FOX to be projecting at us on the regular, whether it's legitimate or not. See the "Don't Say Gay" thread for an example of how this all works. Maybe your wife's friend is telling the truth, actually did witness this, and isn't coloring it with her own inherent biases. I think I'd bet against, but what do I know. If this actually is the case, though, I'd call it far more exemplary of you living in a weird-ass neighborhood than some some actual phenomenon that merits any sort of real discussion. Shitty parenting is certainly out there, and in fact it may actually be the norm at this point. This just reeks of a shiny object set out to create outrage to me.

[Ben_Jamin]

Well, that is fascinating.

I don't think a parent should expect the school to accommodate for such a thing. But also, that should be a decision that should be discussed with the School, the parent, and the teachers in a private meeting.

It's the same as a school accomodations for certain needs of a child.

Also, if they make accomodations, how will the classmates go about treating them. Would they make them their pets and walk them around, kick their bowls while they eat and drink, and make fun of them when they're scratching and leaving their mess in a litter-box like setting.

Also, do they clean up their own mess. How far do the children take being an animal?

[Ben_Jamin]

Do these parents have litter boxes at home for their children and clean them?

Yes. In all three cases. However, I don't believe they are used in place of a toilet. It's more like a total immersive type of behavior. They lick their paws and pretend to eat from bowls on the floor. They hiss and purr and generally adopt the animals behaviors.

This is sick

I personally don't think it's sick. It could be like as if the childs mind hasn't grown the mindset that forms the foundation of an adult brain and mindset, and is still continuing to imitate and play out their imagination in "Child's Play". Like how a child plays house, plays horsie, or the scene they imagine when playing with their toys.

It can be harmful when the parents continue to let it play out without any assurance as to the reality of life and what life's reality is.

I personally do not have an issue with it as long as the child or person understands that there is a reality to this world, including being human.

[cramx3]

Do these parents have litter boxes at home for their children and clean them?

Yes. In all three cases. However, I don't believe they are used in place of a toilet. It's more like a total immersive type of behavior. They lick their paws and pretend to eat from bowls on the floor. They hiss and purr and generally adopt the animals behaviors.

This is sick

I personally don't think it's sick. It could be like as if the childs mind hasn't grown the mindset that forms the foundation of an adult brain and mindset, and is still continuing to imitate and play out their imagination in "Child's Play". Like how a child plays house, plays horsie, or the scene they imagine when playing with their toys.

It can be harmful when the parents continue to let it play out without any assurance as to the reality of life and what life's reality is.

I personally do not have an issue with it as long as the child or person understands that there is a reality to this world, including being human.

Nothing about this sounds like "child's play" to me.  When you are requesting a school to adapt, it is no longer viewed as "play" but something serious.  Unless of course it's just trolling.

[Chino]

Do these parents have litter boxes at home for their children and clean them?

Yes. In all three cases. However, I don't believe they are used in place of a toilet. It's more like a total immersive type of behavior. They lick their paws and pretend to eat from bowls on the floor. They hiss and purr and generally adopt the animals behaviors.

This is sick

I personally don't think it's sick. It could be like as if the childs mind hasn't grown the mindset that forms the foundation of an adult brain and mindset, and is still continuing to imitate and play out their imagination in "Child's Play". Like how a child plays house, plays horsie, or the scene they imagine when playing with their toys.

It can be harmful when the parents continue to let it play out without any assurance as to the reality of life and what life's reality is.

I personally do not have an issue with it as long as the child or person understands that there is a reality to this world, including being human.

Nothing about this sounds like "child's play" to me.  When you are requesting a school to adapt, it is no longer viewed as "play" but something serious.  Unless of course it's just trolling.

I'd put it in the serious camp too. A four year old acting like an animal is completely different than a twelve year old. I've actually sat down and played board games with furries on two occasions. Nobody said anything about it. They had their tails on and that was that. They weren't acting like animals or anything, at least not out in public. I'm sure there are varying degrees though. The distinction is being able to turn it off, which is what Ben's trying to get at I think. If there's a twelve year old that's so caught up in being an animal that they're requesting to shit in litterboxes instead of toilets, both inside and outside the home, that person needs help. I'm not saying that dickishly. I mean that individual needs professional help for some kind of underlying mental disorder.

[Harmony]

The claim is anti-trans and it isn't hard to see that while it is possible that someone called up a school and asked for a litter box for their child - the likelihood this was a pathetic attempt to mock trans-kids in schools having accommodations was the intended goal of such a call.  Fear and hatred is just that prevalent out there.

It is easy to do a Google search and see that the Michigan school superintendent has said that this story about litter box requests for school kids is false.  And it only takes a few clicks to find if one wants to check it out.

This isn't even the same school. You jumped to an incorrect conclusion and in doing so, call into question my integrity as well as that of someone I have known for over 40 years.

I did no such thing.  I even gave your friend an out by saying people could have called into the school as a way to push their own agenda.  Maybe try re-reading what I posted again and refrain from jumping to false conclusions.

If you have any evidence aside from hearsay that this is an issue in ANY school in Michigan I'd be certainly happy to read it.

You seem very angry and defensive. Have I done something to aggravate you?

Your conclusion, in all caps, "DEBUNKED" is a false statement in regard to this. This was not and is not a public matter. I already explained the circumstances. Private meeting between school leaders, executive secretary and parents. I don't care if you believe it. Your free to your own thoughts and opinions.

LoL - I seem very angry and defensive?  Hardly.  If anything I actually feel sad that people fall for these kinds of things as being legitimate.

Private meetings aside, in today's "news" climate were that actually true, it would be plastered in news stories from coast to coast.  A quick Google search shows anyone who has the desire to look the exact opposite is true.

Conspiracy theories (generally) are easily dismissed BECAUSE of the inability for the level of secrecy needed by your average school board member (in this case) to keep quiet about it.  If your friend told you, she undoubtedly told others.  That it isn't a huge news story is very telling.

[emtee]

I'll own whatever I need to own. I was pecking away on a phone during a 15 minute break and could have laid things out better at home on a PC.

This is a class A district and a wealthy one. I live in Central Florida. My wife's friend lives in Michigan.

One thing I learned from this conversation that I didn't realize (see my first sentence about not knowing what everyone else probably knows) is that this is a highly politicized subject. I was looking at it from a parenting perspective. The whole thing just seems so weird and detached from reality. Like snowflake parents on steroids.

I'll move along now and try to stay in the music forum where discussions are primarily civil.

[Ben_Jamin]

I'll own whatever I need to own. I was pecking away on a phone during a 15 minute break and could have laid things out better at home on a PC.

This is a class A district and a wealthy one. I live in Central Florida. My wife's friend lives in Michigan.

One thing I learned from this conversation that I didn't realize (see my first sentence about not knowing what everyone else probably knows) is that this is a highly politicized subject. I was looking at it from a parenting perspective. The whole thing just seems so weird and detached from reality. Like snowflake parents on steroids.

I'll move along now and try to stay in the music forum where discussions are primarily civil.

I understood your question and am not trying to bring anything other than what you are wanting which is the Parenting Perspective.

This is something that the parents should address with the school, but at the same time, they should not expect the school to go to the lengths they desire to accommodate for their child. The issue is the school can not give one, or several, students special treatment. There are reasons such as physical, mental, accommodations schools should consider for certain children.

Do these parents have litter boxes at home for their children and clean them?

Yes. In all three cases. However, I don't believe they are used in place of a toilet. It's more like a total immersive type of behavior. They lick their paws and pretend to eat from bowls on the floor. They hiss and purr and generally adopt the animals behaviors.

This is sick

I personally don't think it's sick. It could be like as if the childs mind hasn't grown the mindset that forms the foundation of an adult brain and mindset, and is still continuing to imitate and play out their imagination in "Child's Play". Like how a child plays house, plays horsie, or the scene they imagine when playing with their toys.

It can be harmful when the parents continue to let it play out without any assurance as to the reality of life and what life's reality is.

I personally do not have an issue with it as long as the child or person understands that there is a reality to this world, including being human.

Nothing about this sounds like "child's play" to me.  When you are requesting a school to adapt, it is no longer viewed as "play" but something serious.  Unless of course it's just trolling.

I'd put it in the serious camp too. A four year old acting like an animal is completely different than a twelve year old. I've actually sat down and played board games with furries on two occasions. Nobody said anything about it. They had their tails on and that was that. They weren't acting like animals or anything, at least not out in public. I'm sure there are varying degrees though. The distinction is being able to turn it off, which is what Ben's trying to get at I think. If there's a twelve year old that's so caught up in being an animal that they're requesting to shit in litterboxes instead of toilets, both inside and outside the home, that person needs help. I'm not saying that dickishly. I mean that individual needs professional help for some kind of underlying mental disorder.

Precisely my point. What is considered a fully developed adult brain, the adult should be able to distinguish reality from imaginary play. Cross-Dressers understand this quite well. It's understanding that Nature and Reality does not form into one's imagination, including how one should live life.


This is precisely why South Park made fun of this Identity issue by having Randy turn himself physically into a Dolphin. 

[TheCountOfNYC]

My dad could be classified as a furry. He's not into animal-play or anything like that. He's just a hairy bastard.

[Herrick]

I have to side with Chino on this one. It's a little hard to believe that a very similar claim was made about a Michigan school which turned out to be fake news but no, it's really happening in another Michigan school. Maybe this thread was just a joke and we all fell for it?

[El Barto]

I have to side with Chino on this one. It's a little hard to believe that a very similar claim was made about a Michigan school which turned out to be fake news but no, it's really happening in another Michigan school. Maybe this thread was just a joke and we all fell for it?

In Emtee's defense, that's not his style. He took it seriously. 

[WilliamMunny]

Not a joke—just another topic that, sadly, went off the rails.

[Stadler]

Well, I was going to talk about what I know about the whole furry thing but seeing as this thread seems to have to devolved into war I will pass. emtee does not deserve the tone being sent his way. Sorry about that, man.

I'm with you.   I don't know squat about the litter box thing specifically, but the concept of "furry" in our middle and even elementary schools is a VERY real thing.  Although it was an oblique reference, I even alluded to this in the thread on the Florida law.  I can't say I understand it very well at all, but it's complicated and complex.

And I'll say again:  when everyone has a story, NO ONE has a story.

[XJDenton]

A story does not cease to be a story just because it has been told before.

[Herrick]

I have to side with Chino on this one. It's a little hard to believe that a very similar claim was made about a Michigan school which turned out to be fake news but no, it's really happening in another Michigan school. Maybe this thread was just a joke and we all fell for it?

In Emtee's defense, that's not his style. He took it seriously.

Not a joke—just another topic that, sadly, went off the rails.

I shall take your words for it.

[Chino]

What were the rails of this thread? I'm genuinely asking as I'm responsible for this topic taking a dump. I've reread the OP about 15 times, and I'm still not getting it.

Was this supposed to be a thread about furries on the whole, or the specific topic of "Three times in the last 6 months, parents have gone ballistic with the school system and board because their child identifies as a furry. The parents want special treatment such as litter boxes. When I heard this I thought my wife's friend was pulling our leg so I Googled it. Crazy. So many questions arise about parenting and what kind of damage this does, if any, in the development of a child...BTW, these kids were in 8th grade. She said these parents were on the verge of violence if the school didn't recognize their kids as furries and make the requested provisions."?


To me, everything in the opening post indicated that this was a thread about parents becoming irate over schools not putting out litter boxes for students.

If this was supposed to be a thread about furries in general, and not what I bolded above, I apologize.

[Herrick]

What were the rails of this thread? I'm genuinely asking as I'm responsible for this topic a dump. I've reread the OP about 15 times, and I'm still not getting it.

Was this supposed to be a thread about furries on the whole, or the specific topic of "Three times in the last 6 months, parents have gone ballistic with the school system and board because their child identifies as a furry. The parents want special treatment such as litter boxes. When I heard this I thought my wife's friend was pulling our leg so I Googled it. Crazy. So many questions arise about parenting and what kind of damage this does, if any, in the development of a child...BTW, these kids were in 8th grade. She said these parents were on the verge of violence if the school didn't recognize their kids as furries and make the requested provisions."?


To me, everything in the opening post indicated that this was a thread about parents becoming irate over schools not putting out litter boxes for students.

If this was supposed to be a thread about furries in general, and not what I bolded above, I apologize.

I'm guessing emtee didn't want to debate the veracity of the story.

[Harmony]

<disclaimer this is not about emtee>

Does anyone remember around the time that gay marriage was being hotly debated in the USA?  Remember all the concerned people talking about how if we let gay people marry the next thing you know, someone will want to marry their dog?

This is called a slippery slope fallacy.  And the 'parents are demanding litter boxes for their 8th graders' is pretty much the same thing.  If we start allowing transgender students to use different pronouns and bathrooms and otherwise make accommodations for them, then the next thing you know parents are going to start demanding litter boxes for their kids.

[Stadler]

<disclaimer this is not about emtee>

Does anyone remember around the time that gay marriage was being hotly debated in the USA?  Remember all the concerned people talking about how if we let gay people marry the next thing you know, someone will want to marry their dog?

This is called a slippery slope fallacy.  And the 'parents are demanding litter boxes for their 8th graders' is pretty much the same thing.  If we start allowing transgender students to use different pronouns and bathrooms and otherwise make accommodations for them, then the next thing you know parents are going to start demanding litter boxes for their kids.

But it's not ALWAYS a fallacy, and it's not ALWAYS so blatantly about the extremes.  The slippery slope doesn't have to be about "A" and "Z", it can be about all the incremental steps in between.  Remember when Mick Jagger had to sing "Let's Spend Some Time Together" and Elvis couldn't shake his pelvis on television?  That seems so naive today, but it's also a prime example of the slope at work.

[Harmony]

<disclaimer this is not about emtee>

Does anyone remember around the time that gay marriage was being hotly debated in the USA?  Remember all the concerned people talking about how if we let gay people marry the next thing you know, someone will want to marry their dog?

This is called a slippery slope fallacy.  And the 'parents are demanding litter boxes for their 8th graders' is pretty much the same thing.  If we start allowing transgender students to use different pronouns and bathrooms and otherwise make accommodations for them, then the next thing you know parents are going to start demanding litter boxes for their kids.

But it's not ALWAYS a fallacy, and it's not ALWAYS so blatantly about the extremes.  The slippery slope doesn't have to be about "A" and "Z", it can be about all the incremental steps in between.  Remember when Mick Jagger had to sing "Let's Spend Some Time Together" and Elvis couldn't shake his pelvis on television?  That seems so naive today, but it's also a prime example of the slope at work.

I guess I'm not following.  What exactly is the fault of Mick Jagger and Elvis' hips?  I mean....I think I understand the point you are trying to make but with those examples I could name about 100 other things happening during those same iconic moments that bring us to today.  It isn't a straight line back to them.

[Stadler]

They are all increments in the inexorable slide to Dennis Franz's ass on television, Dua Lipa and Megan Thee Stallion dancing on a stage that simulates a strip club with everything but the nipples, and some of the language in shows like Archer.

[Harmony]

They are all increments in the inexorable slide to Dennis Franz's ass on television, Dua Lipa and Megan Thee Stallion dancing on a stage that simulates a strip club with everything but the nipples, and some of the language in shows like Archer.

Well...I think people like to point to Mick and Elvis as increments but I think the slide into Franz's ass would've happened with or without Mick and Elvis. 

[El Barto]

<disclaimer this is not about emtee>

Does anyone remember around the time that gay marriage was being hotly debated in the USA?  Remember all the concerned people talking about how if we let gay people marry the next thing you know, someone will want to marry their dog?

This is called a slippery slope fallacy.  And the 'parents are demanding litter boxes for their 8th graders' is pretty much the same thing.  If we start allowing transgender students to use different pronouns and bathrooms and otherwise make accommodations for them, then the next thing you know parents are going to start demanding litter boxes for their kids.

But it's not ALWAYS a fallacy, and it's not ALWAYS so blatantly about the extremes.  The slippery slope doesn't have to be about "A" and "Z", it can be about all the incremental steps in between.  Remember when Mick Jagger had to sing "Let's Spend Some Time Together" and Elvis couldn't shake his pelvis on television?  That seems so naive today, but it's also a prime example of the slope at work.

Interesting, but I have [what I think to be] a more nuanced take on it. Hip shaking didn't lead to a loosening of standards on television, as the fallacy would suggest. The standards were already in flux, which is why hip shaking was a thing in the first place. I agree with you about it being used in the extreme, but I think the problem comes when we look at it as a cause and effect. They're both effects of the same cause. I suspect that some nutjob actually will try to marry his dog at some point, but it won't be because we legitimized same sex marriage, as some conservatives will gleefully insist. They will both be a reaction to state imposed morality in a changing society.

[Stadler]

<disclaimer this is not about emtee>

Does anyone remember around the time that gay marriage was being hotly debated in the USA?  Remember all the concerned people talking about how if we let gay people marry the next thing you know, someone will want to marry their dog?

This is called a slippery slope fallacy.  And the 'parents are demanding litter boxes for their 8th graders' is pretty much the same thing.  If we start allowing transgender students to use different pronouns and bathrooms and otherwise make accommodations for them, then the next thing you know parents are going to start demanding litter boxes for their kids.

But it's not ALWAYS a fallacy, and it's not ALWAYS so blatantly about the extremes.  The slippery slope doesn't have to be about "A" and "Z", it can be about all the incremental steps in between.  Remember when Mick Jagger had to sing "Let's Spend Some Time Together" and Elvis couldn't shake his pelvis on television?  That seems so naive today, but it's also a prime example of the slope at work.

Interesting, but I have [what I think to be] a more nuanced take on it. Hip shaking didn't lead to a loosening of standards on television, as the fallacy would suggest. The standards were already in flux, which is why hip shaking was a thing in the first place. I agree with you about it being used in the extreme, but I think the problem comes when we look at it as a cause and effect. They're both effects of the same cause. I suspect that some nutjob actually will try to marry his dog at some point, but it won't be because we legitimized same sex marriage, as some conservatives will gleefully insist. They will both be a reaction to state imposed morality in a changing society.

That's a pretty insightful take; I have to think about that.  I was prepared to argue that Mick and Elvis ARE the cause, in the same way that the 1,000 cuts kill you.  No one cut is solely responsible but it's the sum total.  But I think you may be on to something. 

[wolfking]

Do these parents have litter boxes at home for their children and clean them?

Yes. In all three cases. However, I don't believe they are used in place of a toilet. It's more like a total immersive type of behavior. They lick their paws and pretend to eat from bowls on the floor. They hiss and purr and generally adopt the animals behaviors.

WTF?! 

[TAC]

I'll own whatever I need to own. I was pecking away on a phone during a 15 minute break and could have laid things out better at home on a PC.

This is a class A district and a wealthy one. I live in Central Florida. My wife's friend lives in Michigan.

One thing I learned from this conversation that I didn't realize (see my first sentence about not knowing what everyone else probably knows) is that this is a highly politicized subject. I was looking at it from a parenting perspective. The whole thing just seems so weird and detached from reality. Like snowflake parents on steroids.

This is really the most heartbreaking facet of the story.

I am a parent of a soon to be 21 y/o autistic son. Yes, we needed accommodations when he was in school. Compared to some issues kids have, my wife and I considered ourselves quite lucky with my son's challenges.

When I hear of things like..transgender, comfort animals, etc... I always think..what if that were my son..or daughter. How would I want this to go?

We had an aquaintance in town who's daughter thought she was transgender when they were in like 5th or 6th grade. The father, who was a lawyer (and was happy to tell whoever he could, a fucking blowhard), fucking accosted the school officials on behalf of his daughter.
There's a fine line between advocating and threatening. Especially when it's your child.

[jammindude]

I'm fascinated by the two sides of the "slippery slope" conversation.

My take is that I don't think Elvis or Mick (or Jim Morrison for that matter) are personally to blame. But I don't think that negates the "slippery slope" argument.

People thought Gorgoroth was off the chart for putting sheep's heads on spikes, but everyone who was shocked probably loved Alice Cooper as a kid...and their parents were just as shocked by him.

My wife and I were just talking today about how...at some point...there was a shift in school. It used to be that if you got a bad report at school, you were in trouble. But in more cases than not, if you get a bad report now, it's the teacher who gets in trouble and the child is defended no matter what. This didn't happen overnight, but where did it start? Taking away "swats" at school? Or a different step on the ladder?  I don't think you can point the finger at one defining moment in the paradigm shift, but the slippery slope happens.

Let's take it back to what Harmony said. She's right. Right now, the examples are trolling and they're ridiculous.   It's ridiculous now for two reasons. 1) the people doing it are trolling (which also makes them completely disingenuous) and 2) they are moving way too fast. That's not how slippery slopes work. But it's not so far out to say that in 30 years, people who are then 30 WILL be standing up for something akin to this furry story that YOU think is totally ridiculous and then suddenly you will sound like like your parents (or possibly your grandparents) did about [insert any modern controversial moral based argument here]. 

Why do you think old people are always shocked? Their grandparents were shocked too...they just aren't around anymore.

The curse of life in this world is that when you finally get to age when you actually see the cycle go around and you have that wake up OMG moment...then people laugh at you and call you old. Then that generation will have it's own catch phrase with the same meaning as "OK boomer!" with the appropriate eyeroll attached.

[Nick]

So...teacher's pet?

I'm sorry I'm not around more, because this thread should have been locked at this point. There was no topping that start. You sir are awarded 10 internet points.

[Stadler]

I'll own whatever I need to own. I was pecking away on a phone during a 15 minute break and could have laid things out better at home on a PC.

This is a class A district and a wealthy one. I live in Central Florida. My wife's friend lives in Michigan.

One thing I learned from this conversation that I didn't realize (see my first sentence about not knowing what everyone else probably knows) is that this is a highly politicized subject. I was looking at it from a parenting perspective. The whole thing just seems so weird and detached from reality. Like snowflake parents on steroids.

This is really the most heartbreaking facet of the story.

I am a parent of a soon to be 21 y/o autistic son. Yes, we needed accommodations when he was in school. Compared to some issues kids have, my wife and I considered ourselves quite lucky with my son's challenges.

When I hear of things like..transgender, comfort animals, etc... I always think..what if that were my son..or daughter. How would I want this to go?

We had an aquaintance in town who's daughter thought she was transgender when they were in like 5th or 6th grade. The father, who was a lawyer (and was happy to tell whoever he could, a fucking blowhard), fucking accosted the school officials on behalf of his daughter.
There's a fine line between advocating and threatening. Especially when it's your child.

We're in a similar boat; you know that.  And we've had to have certain accommodations.  It's a case-by-case thing, and it's sometimes situational.  I've written about some of this before; my stepson (he's technically my step son, but I think of him as my son) was being physically restrained on a weekly basis; they even had a room with blue padding to "let him calm down".   We were having biweekly meetings with the school, and finally we opted for a full psych exam.  We paid for it (it was several thousand dollars) but it was something that the school LEGALLY should have paid for, so this is something that is open to ALL students.  That was when the autism spectrum diagnosis came through; he has literally not once been restrained since then.  It was all a matter of understanding the root cause and dealing with it appropriately.  I've alluded to it twice now, but the specifics of the matter are, the kids had to share two "interesting facts" about themselves to the class.  Now, he's new to the school (as of January; we moved in large part because his old school system, which I've written about a lot, is a shit show on ice) and he's a... conspicuous kid; he's 14 years old, 6'1" and 260 lbs. who faced a significant amount of bullying in his previous school, and the current administration knows that from our pre-school meetings.  One of his "facts" was simply that he identifies as a "furry".  We've talked about it, to the best of my limited knowledge and with the help of a therapist and at least so far, there are none of the "behavioral" aspects, and none of the "sexual" aspects.  As part of the sensory processing issues he has, he likes the idea of coat of fur, and often (at home) wears an orange fuzzy blanket around him and I think there's an association there that he's made.  His online presence at gaming forums and what-not are as a "fox". 

When he went to disclose that, the teacher pulled him aside and handled it 10000000000% correctly, IMO.  She honored him, saying she understood his wanting to be open, but she counseled him to contemplate the consequences, to think hard about whether OTHER kids would accept that at face value (or draw assumptions).   She notified us of the discussion, and her advice, and asked us to weigh in before she went forward with the classroom exercise where the students would stand up and present.  Now, on one hand, I get the teacher's position, and based on my way of thinking, that's the way I would go. I'd pick two facts that were a little less... personal or open to interpretation.  But I also get the need this child has to be accepted for who he is.  I've been around for about 60 or 65% of his life, now, and am a father-figure of sorts (I've also written about his shit-head dad; his response on the team call with the teacher?  "What the hell's a furry. I've never heard of that in my life!" Flat out lie, since he regularly hacks into his son's online accounts.).  As such I've tried to reinforce in him all the things it's taken me decades to learn:  be considerate of others, and their feelings, but be just as kind to your own feelings. You can't control your feelings, but you CAN control - and you're responsible for - your actions in handling your feelings.  Be who you are, love who you are, love who you want to love, and build your own story.  DO things. Experience things.  Talk to people.  Share with people.  But at 14, we're not good at assessing or accepting consequences.  He WANTS to be liked, and this is potentially one of those things that bring his various life goals into conflict.  And he has to resolve that, perhaps with our (his mom and me) help.  We did finally suggest that he opt for less complicated facts, but that if he really insisted on sharing that facet of his life, do so in a manner that minimizes that complication. Perhaps rather than say "I'm a furry", share his affinity with foxes and leave the "f-word" out of it for now.  Those that know can make the implication, and those that don't, or aren't inclined to be tolerant, can be kept at arm's length.  Not perfect, but the world isn't perfect.

[Harmony]

Wow, thanks for sharing that personal story.  It really helps bring perspective in a very unique manner.

One of my nephews (11) is on the spectrum and he definitely has some tactile idiosyncrasies.  From a very young age, he preferred pressure blankets and enclosed spaces to help calm his stimming.  He does this less now as he prefers making videos on his laptop - mostly commercials interestingly as he is way into logos and jingles.  As much as I struggle to communicate with him the way that I want - which is not the way he wants - I do find being around him to be fascinating and challenging to my neurotypical brain.

As for the furry alliance it makes sense to me that he's taken on the persona of his online handle and translated it to his everyday in the way he has.  As I was reading it, I couldn't help think about the history of the way kids on the margins of cliques in schools - goth kids, punk kids, etc - look to find an identity that they can connect with to make it through that period of life when everything can be so difficult.  Maybe the furry persona is the new outlet for some of these kids? 

[Stadler]

I do find being around him to be fascinating and challenging to my neurotypical brain.

Thank you for the kind words; I talk about myself freely, it's another matter with someone else.  I feel okay with it, since he's so okay with it, and I know the consequences here won't be disastrous for him.

But that one sentence really bears repeating.  I've learned so much from him; I literally find myself watching the same sensory inputs hitting me, my wife, my son, my other kids, and seeing his reaction being sometimes radically different.  I don't mean the normal sort of "that makes me angry whereas it's only a mild irritant to you" that we all experience.  I mean radical, science-based reactions.